"We'll get value by playing him", really?

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, collier said:

There you have the entire reason that everybody is on the bandwagon.

You .......popping at Dave Fevs - now that’s funny 

 

1 minute ago, collier said:

 

Are you also saying that Fam and just him is the only one who appears to give less effort in games? So nobody else this season has ever given less than 100% in every game because I watched 95% of games this season but I don't dog pile on to players on a weekly basis for it. 

No Just Antoine , Lansdown and others

Just don’t criticise Diedhiou ehhhhh

Bless

[collier]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Wow. You have taken that literally. If you go a few posts down you will see that the same poster pretty much confirms my reading of their post. What Cowshed is saying is that the more experienced and more expensive players get judged to higher standards than the kids. I cannot help the fact that he needed to write that word for word rather than use the player being discussed as the example for you to understand that but for me and many others, I'm sure, that was obviously what he was getting at.

We aren't appearing in court.

:laugh: so now we need to read between the lines of the words on the page to get the deeper meaning of what the poster is saying....wow never read such bullshit. If you meant to write a blanket statement covering all experienced players then do so. Were on a football fan's forum ffs.

[Gmac]

The truth is we play better football with Fam OUT of the team. 
However, he scores goals and that’s hard not to like.
But on last nights viewing he is unlikely to score many more. The lack of effort last night was telling. There was a moment last night were he just walked away from marking one of their players leaving us overrun. That brought a comment from the commentator that made me laugh. Something like “guess he has decided he doesn’t want to mark anymore” 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, collier said:

so now we need to read between the lines of the words on the page to get the deeper meaning of what the poster is saying....wow never read such bullshit. If you meant to write a blanket statement covering all experienced players then do so. Were on a football fan's forum ffs.

Well, it wasn't my post for a start but I'm telling you that's what was meant and the same poster confirmed that a few posts later. However, on the subject of us all talking bullshit, we mere mortals unfortunately cannot all articulate ourselves to the standards you set where you accuse others of "sucking the bloke off in a few weeks".

[collier]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

You .......popping at Dave Fevs - now that’s funny 

 

No Just Antoine , Lansdown and others

Just don’t criticise Diedhiou ehhhhh

Bless

Where did I pop at anyone?? It's a forum for debate about the right's and wrong's of the everyday working of BCFC. Everything I write is my opinion and I am sure the poster is not so small minded that he wouldn't see this place for what it is. A load of random BCFC fan's and their opinion's ffs. I am sure he doesn't need you white knighting for him so please let the man respond himself and you stick to responding to my replies to YOU yea??

[collier]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

Well, it wasn't my post for a start but I'm telling you that's what was meant and the same poster confirmed that a few posts later. However, on the subject of us all talking bullshit, we mere mortals unfortunately cannot all articulate ourselves to the standards you set where you accuse others of "sucking the bloke off in a few weeks".

I am sorry if that comment upset you, feel better now? When did you first realise you could read other people's minds? seems a pretty good talent to have mind!!

[Numero Uno]

Just now, collier said:

I am sorry if that comment upset you, feel better now? When did you first realise you could read other people's minds? seems a pretty good talent to have mind!!

It's not mind reading. It's called comprehension.

Thanks for the apology, I'm absolutely buzzing now.........

[Sheltons Army]

3 minutes ago, collier said:

Where did I pop at anyone?? It's a forum for debate about the right's and wrong's of the everyday working of BCFC. Everything I write is my opinion and I am sure the poster is not so small minded that he wouldn't see this place for what it is. A load of random BCFC fan's and their opinion's ffs. I am sure he doesn't need you white knighting for him so please let the man respond himself and you stick to responding to my replies to YOU yea??

You seem to miss the point

If you read any of his analysis or posts you will have noticed he’s as far from a ‘shoot from the hip’ poster as you can get - his thoughts or opinions always have a basis , a basis of watching , analysing and consideration

Meanwhile your only debate point remains his goal return and posts about people ‘S***** him off’ ( Your man Famara not Dave Fevs)

 

I think that says it all really

 

 

[collier]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

It's not mind reading. It's called comprehension.

Thanks for the apology, I'm absolutely buzzing now.........

I am glad you accepted the apology, I was going to have to suggest pistol's at dawn otherwise!! Phew.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, collier said:

I am glad you accepted the apology, I was going to have to suggest pistol's at dawn otherwise!! Phew.

You've had enough to say about weapons for one day.

[collier]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

You seem to miss the point

If you read any of his analysis or posts you will have noticed he’s as far from a ‘shoot from the hip’ poster as you can get - his thoughts or opinions always have a basis , a basis of watching , analysing and consideration

Meanwhile your only debate point remains his goal return and posts about people ‘S***** him off’ ( Your man Famara not Dave Fevs)

 

I think that says it all really

 

 

You should really tell him how you feel good knight. Were all randoms on a fan's forum, nobody really cares about internet points or defending said randoms honour.

 

Meanwhile you continue to waste time defending other posters and repeating the sucking him off comment instead of carrying on the debate on the merit's or not on Fam in the team. You care to get back to that and maybe rebut my answer to your question, does fam improve the team??

 

 

[collier]

6 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

You've had enough to say about weapons for one day.

Shelt's please look he's carrying it on, come defend me from this heathen!!

[Sheltons Army]

3 minutes ago, collier said:

You should really tell him how you feel good knight. Were all randoms on a fan's forum, nobody really cares about internet points or defending said randoms honour.

 

Meanwhile you continue to waste time defending other posters and repeating the sucking him off comment instead of carrying on the debate on the merit's or not on Fam in the team. You care to get back to that and maybe rebut my answer to your question, does fam improve the team??

 

 

Uhmmmmmmmm

You havnt debated at any point 

Still waiting ........

 

If you want to see what even a prolific goalscorer can and should be offering a side take a look at Pukki for example next time Norwich play ..... not the ball.....Pukki

But then you are strangely fixated on Diedhiou , and won’t 

Will read your argument for Diedhiou when you get around to it 

[RedRock]

Fams gone. In my view, we can do better. So mutually agreed separation. Just have him as an impact sub.

On a bit if a side note, sticks in the throat somewhat Fam’s downed tools when my partner, who earns a small fraction of what he’s on, is required to continue working (and friggin hard) during her redundancy notice period. But hey it’s an unfair life. Wouldn’t it be nice, however, in these tough times be nice to think he’s giving his salary to a charity while he sees out his contract.  

The only problem with Fam ‘gone’ is that Wells, mentally, has never ‘arrived’. So we either get him to ‘arrive’ by setting the team up for him or we bench him too. 

If the latter, that just leaves us with a non-scoring Semenyo. Which isn’t a great situation. 

Begs the question play the youngsters or push Pato, Palmer up front and play with attacking midfielders as per the Pato/Bobby type arrangement. 

Bit of a mess to say the least. Good planning by someone...Ashton are you there? 

[collier]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Uhmmmmmmmm

You havnt debated at any point 

Still waiting ........

 

If you want to see what even a prolific goalscorer can and should be offering a side take a look at Pukki for example next time Norwich play ..... not the ball.....Pukki

But then you are strangely fixated on Diedhiou , and won’t 

Will read your argument for Diedhiou when you get around to it 

Yea that should be a completely fair comparison, Pukki play for Norwich who play a completely different type of football to us. It's apples and oranges consider that they are chalk and cheese as strikers but ok. The man got 11 goals in the prem and has a 1-2 strike rate for a side that live at the top of the table compared to a mid table side that creates **** all for numerous strikers not just Fam.

 

To also answer your question of does he improve the team. Lets hypothetically take away all his goals this season( nothing else) and look at our position in the table. We drop from 10th to 19th with Derby 2 point's behind us and having a game in hand. If you add( or takeaway) Sheff W 6 point deduction into the mix and Derby winning their game in hand we drop to 22nd which is the relegation zone is it not?? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Since the window slammed shut he's been very disappointing.

I have mixed views on him. On one hand, he does give or take average around 1 in 3 for us which isn't bad and has chipped in defensively.

Otoh, the side often (not always but often) has seemed less fluid when he has played. I've always preferred a more fluid setup where possible, with energy out of possession. Diedhiou isn't usually ideal.

He has his strong periods and can score some excellent goals. Wycombe and Portsmouth are two, thought he took the goals nicely v Huddersfield as well, not just headers from corners eg. Seem to recall some nice strikes in 2018/19 too, Blackburn and West Brom off the bench and Derby away a great howitzer that hit the woodwork. In the run up to Derby, good work (ie scored and performed an important role) at Birmingham and at home to Norwich, two notably good City results/displays.

The energy/stamina out of possession. One that stands out as different is West Brom at home in April 2019. He ran and ran that night but is that an outlier? Diedhiou at Angers as Dave mentioned in the past seemed to be running onto through balls more.

The other concern I have with Diedhiou, this one isn't necessarily his fault, when he does play we seem to fall too easily into the trap of hitting it long or crossing high...just because we can almost! Vs big CBs at this level, especially if we're behind they will love that. Too easy.

[collier]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Since the window slammed shut he's been very disappointing.

I have mixed views on him. On one hand, he does give or take average around 1 in 3 for us which isn't bad and has chipped in defensively.

Otoh, the side often (not always but often) has seemed less fluid when he has played. I've always preferred a more fluid setup where possible, with energy out of possession. Diedhiou isn't usually ideal.

He has his strong periods and can score some excellent goals. Wycombe and Portsmouth are two, thought he took the goals nicely v Huddersfield as well, not just headers from corners eg. Seem to recall some nice strikes in 2018/19 too, Blackburn and West Brom off the bench and Derby away a great howitzer that hit the woodwork. In the run up to Derby, good work (ie scored and performed an important role) at Birmingham and at home to Norwich, two notably good City results/displays.

The energy/stamina out of possession. One that stands out as different is West Brom at home in April 2019. He ran and ran that night but is that an outlier? Diedhiou at Angers as Dave mentioned in the past seemed to be running onto through balls more.

The other concern I have with Diedhiou, this one isn't necessarily his fault, when he does play we seem to fall too easily into the trap of hitting it long or crossing high...just because we can almost! Vs big CBs at this level, especially if we're behind they will love that. Too easy.

Thanks for the balanced view of his fault's and the good things he brings to the team. Is he the best striker to have ever graced the turf, no. Is he the best we have currently, yes. Will we miss him when he is gone, almost certainly IMO.

 

The proof in the pudding will be next season when he has gone, I doubt we will be spending money to bring in a replacement so I for 1 hope that the mythical Barca style of football will be gracing Ashton Gate once the big lump we have upfront has gone. I can't wait to see a packed stadium roaring us on as we have 20k people on the edge of their seats with wave after wave of attacking exciting football or will CM just replace him as the lump upfront, with aimless balls throw his way as he looks more and more disinterested as his contract shortens. We will see.

[Alex_BCFC]

23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I have mixed views on him. On one hand, he does give or take average around 1 in 3 for us which isn't bad and has chipped in defensively.

I'd say given the service he receives, its better than not bad. Good in fact.

[Cowshed]

47 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Since the window slammed shut he's been very disappointing.

I have mixed views on him. On one hand, he does give or take average around 1 in 3 for us which isn't bad and has chipped in defensively.

Otoh, the side often (not always but often) has seemed less fluid when he has played. I've always preferred a more fluid setup where possible, with energy out of possession. Diedhiou isn't usually ideal.

He has his strong periods and can score some excellent goals. Wycombe and Portsmouth are two, thought he took the goals nicely v Huddersfield as well, not just headers from corners eg. Seem to recall some nice strikes in 2018/19 too, Blackburn and West Brom off the bench and Derby away a great howitzer that hit the woodwork. In the run up to Derby, good work (ie scored and performed an important role) at Birmingham and at home to Norwich, two notably good City results/displays.

The energy/stamina out of possession. One that stands out as different is West Brom at home in April 2019. He ran and ran that night but is that an outlier? Diedhiou at Angers as Dave mentioned in the past seemed to be running onto through balls more.

The other concern I have with Diedhiou, this one isn't necessarily his fault, when he does play we seem to fall too easily into the trap of hitting it long or crossing high...just because we can almost! Vs big CBs at this level, especially if we're behind they will love that. Too easy.

Yes the performance you highlighted is an outlier. 

You are outlining a picture of a game this player is not suited to out of possession. The players skills do not fit your picture in possession.

Mr Holden's future front foot football? 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, collier said:

So numerous partner's being unable to link with him and again you automatically equate that to being Fam's fault. You see the problem there? Did you ask why maybe they couldn't link with Fam and maybe why is he still the one in the team scoring goals and these numerous partner's are not?? I suppose it's just coincidence huh?

 

With regard's to him improving us, yes. Take him out of every game we have played this season and his 6 goals for example and we have 9 less points. That put's us 2 points above the drop with a game in hand for Derby. Is that the kind of improvement as a team you were looking for or are you going to move the goalposts to some other hypothetical situation where we would be much better off without him?? 

Put it this way, I see lots of Fam’s partners having to adapt the way they play to fit around the way he plays....often to their detriment.  Wells and Weimann are classic examples.  Fam takes the space where they want to run....central.  So they have to run the lines of the penalty area (and wider) because Fam isn’t clever enough (football clever) to ever make a run to give space for someone else.  He is so reactive it’s untrue.

I get that Fam was our record signing, hey, I thought he was a good signing (watched him a lot at Angers), but if anything he’s not really improved since he came here and has been allowed to play a selfish role.  Poor coaching partially responsible for that.  They’ve allowed him to play that role.  He made better runs / movement in his open 3 months here than his last 3 years.

I think you think I’m saying he’s a bad player, well I’m not.  But I believe he stifles effective team play and his partners in the way he’s played far too often.  I’m surprised our coaches haven’t seen that.  He stifles any attempt to play a high / higher press too.  He gets a good return of goals per game, but a year without an assist and only 8 in his time here is telling too.

Re your “9 points” analogy....did we play those with 10 men?  That’s a stupid argument isn’t it?  

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I actually think Fam has been working as hard as ever. He has never been one that can sprint around like shorter, lighter players. 

Been poor for the last few games though. Him and Wells don't work well at all.

I'd even consider dropping both! Where will the goals come from people may ask. Well I'm more concerned about playing well first and then I'm quite confident the ball will find its way into the back of the net if we can create opportunities to score.

He has been ambling around.  Worth watching back v Huddersfield.  Couple of goals.  Fantastic.  Job done in his mind.  Switch off, let Sarr bring it forward. Cue Huddersfield dominance.

Same against Brentford, where I, one of the few who thought he did ok 1st half.  Second half, ambling around again.  Beck-Sorensen brings it forward, sprays it around.

Not saying he’s the only one at fault in this, but this is a thread about Fam.  I’m not selective in praise or criticism.

It happens too often.

When he puts his mind to it, he’s a very different player.  But over recent games nobody can tell me he’s put a real shift in.  Needs a kick up the arse, but I suspect there is a fear of him completely downing tools.  I’d take that risk.  He is leaving for zilch as it stands, what is there to lose.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

He's always done that though hasnt he? Sprints a bit then walks a bit then manages to sprint again. The sprints lessen as the longer he is on the pitch and sometimes doesn't look like he's getting through the same work when playing game after game, 3 games in a week.

Huddersfield he was sprinting back to left back. But then other times he was walking around. It's just how I've always thought he's been. Martin walks around a lot too the longer the game goes on. 

That’s not sprinting Jon. That’s 3/4 pace....you know when he’s sprinting.  I’m saying all of his runs should be sprints either, but the intensity of his work rate has been well below the required levels for most of the last 4 1/2 games.

[1960maaan]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s not sprinting Jon. That’s 3/4 pace....you know when he’s sprinting.  I’m saying all of his runs should be sprints either, but the intensity of his work rate has been well below the required levels for most of the last 4 1/2 games.

TBH I'd be happy if he didn't track back too much and put all his effort in up front. I know the service to the strikers is poor at best, but lately he has been going through the motions, or at least that's how it looks. Hard judging forward players in our team, I think some of Wells's problems are frustration. Living on scraps .

Fam has gone through these spells before, though this one may be tinted by attitude or far away thoughts of pastures new ?

[Cowshed]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s not sprinting Jon. That’s 3/4 pace....you know when he’s sprinting.  I’m saying all of his runs should be sprints either, but the intensity of his work rate has been well below the required levels for most of the last 4 1/2 games.

Actualisation (sprinting ) is reached after fifty - sixty metres of acceleration.  Many players never get to a sprint speed. 

Required levels are? Last night City dropped off into a shape but frequently failed to engage the opposition.  City got played through quite easily from the front. The front players were not screening to create numerical superiority. They were ambling around. That goes beyond the physical.  Its mindset.

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I just think he looks shattered. I think in a front 2 pressing is not made for him at all.

Either play Semenyo and Wells or even something a bit different like Pato and Semenyo. 

Would love to see a 2 striker combination of technical players that love getting on the ball. And also that like to come deep or wide.

I saw a bit of promise in Palmer and Semenyo last night. But very little to go on. 

We haven’t pressed from the front all season, but we don’t work hard enough to close passing lanes, engage the opponent etc.

[SBB]

Fam’s reluctance/inability to make runs off the ball is the main reason I wouldn’t put him in any starting 11. I can’t remember the last time he’s pulled a centre half out of position other than when he wants it to HIS feet. I find him to be incredibly selfish in all of his attacking play. He is a good player and 1 in 3 in this league is a decent strike rate, he’s just not what I personally would want in a No.9 playing in the Championship. 

[Sheltons Army]

21 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Barnsley showing how it's done now. 

So much energy in all areas in front of the big back 3.

A clear idea of how they want to play and players that suit that style. 

Absolutely - caused a strong Chelsea side more problems in first 10 mins than we did in 90

Energy , pressing , threats on goal ,  training ground corner kicks ....

 

Their oldest player - 26 yr old Cayley Woodrow 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Absolutely - caused a string Chelsea side more problems in first 10 mins than we did in 90

Energy , pressing , threats on goal , training ground free kicks ....

 

Their oldest player - 26 yr old Cayley Woodrow 

Is he any good, heard that he’s quite promising?

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Is he any good, heard that he’s quite promising?

It’s Cauleys brother Cayley

 

 

 

Every time I see him I think of you Dave !

[Davefevs]

Just now, Sheltons Army said:

Every time I see him I think of you Dave !

Every time I see him I think of Russell Howard.

[Sheltons Army]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Every time I see him I think of Russell Howard.

Ha ha - Yes ! !

I like their centre halves - Anderson always put in a performance when I’ve seen them