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Holden - sack or keep?


Holden - sack or keep?   

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3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

There was a 2 week period (end of November, start of December) when Norwich had 13 missing, they drew at home to Coventry & didn’t have a single fit striker in the squad & could only name 6 subs (just 1 with first team experience, sound familiar?).

Nearly all of these players bar Krul & Quintilla are now fit, their injuries seem to clear up far quicker than ours..

No.

That’s the point, they didn’t have 13 long term injuries....they had 13 injuries, and as you say, they’re all back (in the main).  You are right to question why other clubs are getting their players back quicker.

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43 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s the point, they didn’t have 13 long term injuries....they had 13 injuries, and as you say, they’re all back (in the main).  You are right to question why other clubs are getting their players back quicker.

You make a good point Fevs.

There's still an argument that the narrative of 13 long term injuries, aren't we unlucky is a little bit weak (not saying that's your view).

For example, were Brunt (age) and Mawson (injury record) not higher injury risk from the get go? Didn't we all apply the fitness question mark when they joined?

I know Baker's injury record is a contentious issue but is it so surprising?

Williams and Walsh's injuries were known about in pre-season, and isn't DaSilva's a known problem?

Weimann and Paterson I put down to rank bad luck. At a push you could say that at 29 there tends to be wear and tear or perhaps that they were being flogged every week.

I just wonder if we've made our own luck a little too. 

For example, we've had a few opportunities to rotate Chris Martin, but we play him every game. Is that a smart move? Time will tell. 

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On 18/12/2020 at 21:05, ohhhshauntaylor said:

Results business. 
Cheap appointment. Cheap to remove. 
invest NOW in a decent manager 

After the previous five week interview process fiasco I don’t think any decent manager will bother to apply. They now know that if they set out their plans they would be wasting their time and that the club will inevitably make a cheap internal appointment of the assistant manager who “knows the players” and shares the same “vision” as MA and JL.

Edited by Redland
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19 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Why what's wrong with that post? Granted it's a fairly extreme option, but not an invalid opinion. 

I am not questioning the sentiment of the post ,agree or disagree it is a person’s opinion.

I don’t, however, like the unnecessary insult of a bloke who is doing his best in all honesty.

That’s my opinion.

Throwing insults around dilutes an argument to mudslinging and advances nothing.

 

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Feels like there hasn’t been a definitive poll on this for a while. Interesting to get a snapshot of OTIB’s views at this moment in time in the context of injuries and covid.

Sack him now, keep him or let the season fizzle out and reassess at the end of the season with a view to replacing him? 

This poll is just about Holden by the way. This isn't about Ashton in this instance.

Edited by Phileas Fogg
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It was sack before he was even confirmed. Has done nothing to change my mind only confirm what was thought when it became official. It was a bad hire that had the smallest of chances to work out. Surprise surprise it isn’t working out. 

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I’d get rid now.

Gives a manager time to look at what he needs & with quite a few OOC at the end of the season, he can make a decision on their contract renewals. 

You just have to hope they’d bring someone in with a bit of experience & not mess it up again like they did in the summer. 

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Sack.

As much as I feel sorry for him, the job is just too big. 
It’s difficult because we don’t have the players to play front foot football and I think that’s what he wants to do. 
The board has a decision to make.

1) Complete squad overhaul to play how Dean wants

2) Bring in a manager who can get a tune out of what we’ve got.

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1 minute ago, havanatopia said:

Arghhh... See there is the problem Phil.... You cannot sack Holden without also sacking Ashton... Utterly pointless I am afraid. Rinse and repeat.

I agree, but this is just a simple poll to gauge the mood. If you add in too many caveats then it dilutes the question too much. I just wanted a snapshot on what people feel re: Holden.

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I agree, but this is just a simple poll to gauge the mood. If you add in too many caveats then it dilutes the question too much. I just wanted a snapshot on what people feel re: Holden.

Copy that but I cannot vote for sacking if it does not take Ashton. I bet if you did another poll saying both to be sacked it would be far more emphatic.

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Normally I’d say ‘keep to end of season’ but this year is different. With so many contracts up in the squad and with no doubt a lot of player movement in the summer - we have to be ahead of the game, planning longer term. 

Do I honestly see DH here longer term? I’m afraid not.

I would therefore be looking now to get a coach in to assess the squad and be a major part in the re-building in the summer.

What I don’t want to see happening is Holden starting next season as manager, having shaped the squad, and being gone by Christmas. New man comes in and the season is in effect a right off. 2 seasons wasted and more debt accrued on another gamble by SL.

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1 minute ago, havanatopia said:

Copy that but I cannot vote for sacking if it does not take Ashton. I bet if you did another poll saying both to be sacked it would be far more emphatic.

Sure, however we had similar the other day so wanted a different poll just on Holden.

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1 minute ago, havanatopia said:

Copy that but I cannot vote for sacking if it does not take Ashton. I bet if you did another poll saying both to be sacked it would be far more emphatic.

Pesonally I would keep Ashton but understand that may not be a popular view, the issue removing him gives us is that we would need a new CEO in place prior to appointing a new manager and it would further destabilise the club even further at a time when we really don't need that.  I would say though that the next appointment needs to be a good one or serious questions will be asked of MA.

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Sack. I genuinely believe if we stick with him, there's a very real chance we'll go down next year. The thought of him "having the final say" on recruiting up to a dozen new players in the summer fills me with dread, especially when you consider four of the last six permanent signings were 30+. 

Removing Ashton, however, is a bigger priority, IMO. 

Edited by tin
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2 minutes ago, Warwickshire Red said:

With Ashton still in place, wouldn’t we still limit the pool of those willing to apply/take the role due to lack of control over signings etc. (as has been rumoured with Cook and Howe)?

For real change, we need them both out and re-structure imo so sacking now could have limited benefits.

Well thank you indeed, tis the overall general consensus and it should be the only topic. Sacking a manager alone is pointless as we have seen.

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Sure, however we had similar the other day so wanted a different poll just on Holden.

Please post the link Phileas.

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1 minute ago, tin said:

Sack. I genuinely believe if we stick with him, there's a very real chance we'll go down next year. The thought of him "having the final say" on recruiting up to a dozen new players in the summer fills me with dread, especially when you consider four of the last six permanent signings were 30+. 

No fees on them tho am I right? So the 4 Pillars is out replaced by Covid Sticky Plaster Policy Directive. 

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1 minute ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Pesonally I would keep Ashton but understand that may not be a popular view, the issue removing him gives us is that we would need a new CEO in place prior to appointing a new manager and it would further destabilise the club even further at a time when we really don't need that.  I would say though that the next appointment needs to be a good one or serious questions will be asked of MA.

Understatement of the year there. The point about removing him would be to restructure having an actual chief scout, a manager and a director of football.  At the moment we have that smarmy *** in charge of 'all football matters'.

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3 minutes ago, tin said:

Sack. I genuinely believe if we stick with him, there's a very real chance we'll go down next year. The thought of him "having the final say" on recruiting up to a dozen new players in the summer fills me with dread, especially when you consider four of the last six permanent signings were 30+. 

There is still a worrying chance we could go down THIS year, with hapless Holden in charge. (Although I agree with others Ashton needs to go too, for there to be real change, don't see any experienced managers being prepared to come in and work under Ashton's span of control).

Edited by old_eastender
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