The bigger picture

[NcnsBcfc]

13 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Nail on head.

Amazing how City fans just don't get it. SL FINANCES City. He DOES NOT give them money or write-off debt. His very deep pockets allow him to keep the money circulating such we stay in business until such time as we begin to make profit from which we'll reduce debt and pay off creditors (yeah, I don't believe that either.)

At present, each and every  City fan out there carping at SLs behaviour (assuming they're 'fan' enough to actually attend home fixtures,) have SL to thank for the £200 he fronts each month for each of them, 12 months a year, such they may continue to indulge their passion. So you give grief to a bloke who doesn't know you though who stumps up that kind of dosh on your behalf? That's gratitude for you.

Contrary to our disproportionate sense of worth, City isn't an attractive proposition. Were it, we'd have been subject to numerous takeovers and bids from speculators over the years. As is, City exists wholly because of the beneficence of local businessmen. 50 years ago Harry Dolman was one of a select band wealthy enough to fund the club. Today, with football having lost all sense of reality, other than SL I can think of no other local individual interested in funding City. SL is in a league of his own. The problem with that, well if you don't like it what are you going to do about it?

Suppose SL decided to cede the club, without charge, to a fans trust subject to existing fans attending committing to fund losses for, say, the next 10 years. How many would be prepared to pay City £25k, NOW, to see that happen? You could count such fans on the fingers of both hands.

Good points @BTRFTG

I have no gripe per se with SL. But it must now be obvious to him that the current set up isn't working. The fans are getting incredibly disillusioned, and all the good work of the last 5 years seems to be going to waste.

If feels a bit like groundhog day, after GJ left; and the slowly downward trajectory towards L1 seemed inevitable.

I'm still mystified by the DH appointment last summer after the "intensive search". I think I posted at the time, that that was time to show ambition as a club; and to take this club in another direction. We showed ourselves at that time, to naïve, and the comments that our "Chairman"; and MA came out must have been mystifying to the professionals in the game.

To compound the confusion, we then appointed two "experienced" coaches to help our inexperienced coach. A frankly bizarre set of circumstances.

There is a reason that National coaches generally fail at EFL, and PL teams. Pearce, Taylor, Boothroyd, even Southgate really. It's a completely difference set up; and once again I know of no other club that would employ both coaches from that background at the same time, there needs to be a balance.

Going back to SL. I think a good parallel is Eddie Davies at Bolton. Once he died, and the family pulled out; chaos ensued. SL has invested in us, but all of his investments are based in fixtures/fittings & shares issued to cover the actual investment, he's not stupid; and won't have built up the empire he has by making poor financial decisions.

As @Mr Popodopolous and @Davefevs have expertly done over the last few months with their analysis of the club's finances. There are a myriad of companies, both real and shell. The losses in one area of the business, will be offset against profits in another to avoid income tax no doubt. Accountants certainly earn their wages; and let's not forget that Pula Sports is registered in Guernsey for a reason.

I do admire SL in a way for his patience though. As other posts have shown, as a club we have systemically failed to achieve anything really (bar Cott's period) in terms of actually winning anything. You can tell the football world at large are baffled, how with the owner/facilities we have; we have so fundamentally failed to get into the PL; when even clubs now languishing in L2 have achieved it.

In my eyes, it's a clear case of planning around recruitment; and choice of coach/coaches. The amount of money that SL has thrown at the playing side to get us into the PL is huge in comparison to what other teams have achieved with far less. If you were to get some form of systems management into the club, to see why it has failed so spectacularly on the playing  over the last 20 years to achieve the ultimate goal. They would no doubt point to lack of cohesion/direction and ultimately experience at both a senior level; and coaching one.

As I've put on another thread Tisdale was sacked after "awful" set of results. But if you look at the form guide over the last 15 games, we've only got 3 more points than them over that period; and would be in 22nd in the league on that basis (15 point from 15 games, only 13 goals scored during that time).

DH can count himself very lucky that he had the honeymoon first month. Yet, the spin put out by the club at present is that we are only 6 points off the playoffs. Christ, we need those 11 points and pronto before we do another Hull.

Let's see what the summer brings with 22 players technically being out of contract (bar a few club optional year). With the salary cap not really going to happen, due to the PFA's victory this week in L1 & L2; maybe the intention of bringing the wage bill down to around the £20m mark will be looked at again.

In the meantime. Fingers crossed we get over the line this season. The attacking stats are awful, and the defensive ones aren't much better. I'll still renew my 3 season tickets regardless, who'd want to be a City fan at the moment. All fun this isn't it?

[Major Isewater]

3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

To the multitude of Gypsy Rose Lee posters questioning the club's strategy re Famara, answer me this:

Who would we have taken as his replacement in the January window and what, financially, would their lifecycle liabity be?

Would City have performed as well by letting him go and not replacing as will result from us retaining his services until summer?

Who will Famara sign for next and what will his lifecycle liabity be?

Assuming the above, how does that liability compare to what City purportedly offered in January?

In the summer what strikers will come to market, are there any superior to Famara, how will their lifecycle liability compare to that offered Famara in January?

If you are unable to answer the above then STFU. All you have is speculation and if that's your modus operandi be more creativitly optimistic. State we could have signed the best players in each position from world football. That we'd never have lost another game, each won won by 6 goals or more. That we'd leap into profit and go on to conquer inter-galactic football for millennia. It's as much sense as what's being babbled hereabouts.

On the other hand those running the club HAD to act, to take a decision. Hindsight will inform whether their decision proved correct. But that's the nature of the beast and the difference between those stepping up to take decisions and those who carp from the sidelines. Those without capacity to be brave or proffer constructive alternatives. 

 

 

Or another way of looking at it is , would we have signed Famara on loan until the end of the season if he was available from  another club ? 

 

[BTRFTG]

11 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Or another way of looking at it is , would we have signed Famara on loan until the end of the season if he was available from  another club ? 

 

As you know, Major, the permutations are limitless, though adopting zeitgeist all I can say is whatever your preferred option you are wrong - it's just I'll be unable to tell you why?

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

To the multitude of Gypsy Rose Lee posters questioning the club's strategy re Famara, answer me this:

Who would we have taken as his replacement in the January window and what, financially, would their lifecycle liabity be?

Would City have performed as well by letting him go and not replacing as will result from us retaining his services until summer?

Who will Famara sign for next and what will his lifecycle liabity be?

Assuming the above, how does that liability compare to what City purportedly offered in January?

In the summer what strikers will come to market, are there any superior to Famara, how will their lifecycle liability compare to that offered Famara in January?

If you are unable to answer the above then STFU. All you have is speculation and if that's your modus operandi be more creativitly optimistic. State we could have signed the best players in each position from world football. That we'd never have lost another game, each won won by 6 goals or more. That we'd leap into profit and go on to conquer inter-galactic football for millennia. It's as much sense as what's being babbled hereabouts.

On the other hand those running the club HAD to act, to take a decision. Hindsight will inform whether their decision proved correct. But that's the nature of the beast and the difference between those stepping up to take decisions and those who carp from the sidelines. Those without capacity to be brave or proffer constructive alternatives. 

 

 

Given a 35 hour week working in a Talent ID / player recruitment department with access to all manner of football experts, video and data analysis tools, and a playing brief from the football coaches, I reckon I could’ve easily come up with a list of half a dozen (probably 12-20 actually) suitable options at a financial liability lower than offering Fam £30k per week over 3 years (£4.5m over 3 years).  I could present financial projections to justify that too.

If I only had my own resources, I still reckon I could have a decent stab at producing a list, but it would lack the “football-world” input, e.g. agent insight, player happiness etc.  But I’d still be able to come up with a list of suitable players.  I actually did this appraisal of Lg1 strikers in the summer.  If I was doing it properly (rather than for OTIB) I would cast my research net further and deeper.

In both cases, the players on my list would be based on actually fitting the player brief, so more suitable than Diedhiou!!!

Arrogant?  Maybe.  I know of a few others on here who are better qualified than me though.

 

[BTRFTG]

23 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said:

SL has invested in us, but all of his investments are based in fixtures/fittings & shares issued to cover the actual investment, he's not stupid;

Save he hasn't. City's net indebtedness (£100m +) is no longer covered by value of retained assets.

The value of the stadium? Who wants a stadium in Bristol & what might they be prepared to pay for it?  I've heard rumour there's only on other professional (sic) club hereabouts but also, crucially, that they're potless. Benchmark AG's Residual Land Value  and it'll be nowhere near as much as you might imagine. Ditto the training facilities. The Squad is a wholesale liability in both financial and playing terms.

And no, SL isn't stupid. What SL is is extraordinarily wealthy. And with that comes an interesting take on life. When one had all one needs, hundreds of times over, what does one do with what remains? The stupid, tasteless new rich splurge on shiny things, vast floating or airborne trinkets, or a la mode 'arm candy'. Others with more civic responsibility indulge in buying that money may not buy. They become public servants and philanthropic. In our case I'd argue SL is both the latter.

[NcnsBcfc]

7 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Save he hasn't. City's net indebtedness (£100m +) is no longer covered by value of retained assets.

The value of the stadium? Who wants a stadium in Bristol & what might they be prepared to pay for it?  I've heard rumour there's only on other professional (sic) club hereabouts but also, crucially, that they're potless. Benchmark AG's Residual Land Value  and it'll be nowhere near as much as you might imagine. Ditto the training facilities. The Squad is a wholesale liability in both financial and playing terms.

And no, SL isn't stupid. What SL is is extraordinarily wealthy. And with that comes an interesting take on life. When one had all one needs, hundreds of times over, what does one do with what remains? The stupid, tasteless new rich splurge on shiny things, vast floating or airborne trinkets, or a la mode 'arm candy'. Others with more civic responsibility indulge in buying that money may not buy. They become public servants and philanthropic. In our case I'd argue SL is both the latter.

It would be interesting in the future, that if he does sell up; what he actually sells.

I doubt many owners would be keen to buy Bristol Sport lock, stock and barrel.

I know of the Bears, Women's team and Flyers being involved. But isn't there other sports technically covered under the same banner?

[Kid in the Riot]

46 minutes ago, rednotblue said:

Johnson Snr

Cotterill

Johnson Jnr

Those were successful appointments. 2 for promotion

1 for establishing City as a top half championship club

Yes, and as we've established SC was brought in due to his close relationship with Keith Dawe. 

Only two of those managers have gone onto "better things" since leaving City; Pulis and McInnes. It's arguable with McInnes but I'd say he has been successful at a fairly big club in Aberdeen, albeit in a poor league. 

The rest we have basically finished their careers as managers! 

[BTRFTG]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Given a 35 hour week working in a Talent ID / player recruitment department with access to all manner of football experts, video and data analysis tools, and a playing brief from the football coaches, I reckon I could’ve easily come up with a list of half a dozen (probably 12-20 actually) suitable options at a financial liability lower than offering Fam £30k per week over 3 years (£4.5m over 3 years).  I could present financial projections to justify that too.

If I only had my own resources, I still reckon I could have a decent stab at producing a list, but it would lack the “football-world” input, e.g. agent insight, player happiness etc.  But I’d still be able to come up with a list of suitable players.  I actually did this appraisal of Lg1 strikers in the summer.  If I was doing it properly (rather than for OTIB) I would cast my research net further and deeper.

In both cases, the players on my list would be based on actually fitting the player brief, so more suitable than Diedhiou!!!

Arrogant?  Maybe.  I know of a few others on here who are better qualified than me though.

 

No, you'll have a bunch of data, much of which, as per your assumption re Fam's supposed salary,  is guesswork or puff?

Have you ever negotiated a valuable contract? If you have you'll know just how important variable factors such as risk are and not all those are apparent when deals are to be done. We're presently living in an age whereby pandemic risks sat low on registers and were priced high in spreadsheets yet nobody, upon nobody, understood the relevance in the real world. One of the biggest, most important deals I did (it was key national infrastructure,) had me thrown the curve ball that only one bidder applied, thus how to justify value for money to Parliament? Nobody envisaged that happening, nobody considered the risk of that identified risk materialising.

What if in your scenario all those your research had identified decided they didn't wish to play for City, that there was no interest from any striker in signing for us? You'll recall the tale of Ravanelli when Boro signed him. Height of his career with Juve, scoring in European finals, one of the most sought after strikers in Europe and astounded when told by his agent that Boro had made a silly offer to Juve for him which had been accepted. After the 'Who?' and discovering the 'Where?' was, 'a northern industrial ****hole', he told his agent he had no interest. 'Find out who the highest paid player in English football is and tell them I want double,' he told his agent, fully expecting that to be the end of the matter. When shortly thereafter his agent responded, 'they've agreed,' he was dumbfounded, though as it would involve more than quadrupling his salary ****hole or not his future was secured, not it did much for Boro who were relegated and nigh on bankrupted that year.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

No, you'll have a bunch of data, much of which, as per your assumption re Fam's supposed salary,  is guesswork or puff?

Have you ever negotiated a valuable contract? If you have you'll know just how important variable factors such as risk are and not all those are apparent when deals are to be done. We're presently living in an age whereby pandemic risks sat low on registers and were priced high in spreadsheets yet nobody, upon nobody, understood the relevance in the real world. One of the biggest, most important deals I did (it was key national infrastructure,) had me thrown the curve ball that only one bidder applied, thus how to justify value for money to Parliament? Nobody envisaged that happening, nobody considered the risk of that identified risk materialising.

What if in your scenario all those your research had identified decided they didn't wish to play for City, that there was no interest from any striker in signing for us? You'll recall the tale of Ravanelli when Boro signed him. Height of his career with Juve, scoring in European finals, one of the most sought after strikers in Europe and astounded when told by his agent that Boro had made a silly offer to Juve for him which had been accepted. After the 'Who?' and discovering the 'Where?' was, 'a northern industrial ****hole', he told his agent he had no interest. 'Find out who the highest paid player in English football is and tell them I want double,' he told his agent, fully expecting that to be the end of the matter. When shortly thereafter his agent responded, 'they've agreed,' he was dumbfounded, though as it would involve more than quadrupling his salary ****hole or not his future was secured, not it did much for Boro who were relegated and nigh on bankrupted that year.

Did you actually read the first two paragraphs?

Why would I need to negotiate a valuable contract?

[SecretSam]

On 11/02/2021 at 11:56, Kid in the Riot said:

£200m invested over a 20 year period that has seen 50 clubs play in the Premier League, many much smaller and less well-off clubs than us, suggests failure to me. 

Which of these managerial appointments would you consider to be successful?

July 1999-January 2000: Tony Pulis
January 2000-May 2000: Tony Fawthrop **
June 2000-July 2004: Danny Wilson
July 2004-September 2005: Brian Tinnion
September 2005-March 2010: Gary Johnson
April 2010-August 2010: Steve Coppell
August 2010-October 2011: Keith Millen
October 2011-January 2013: Derek McInnes
January 2013-November 2013: Sean O'Driscoll
December 2013-January 2016: Steve Cotterill
February 2016-July 2020: Lee Johnson
August 2020 - present: Dean Holden

I know there's a lot of love for GJ, but he left the club in a terrible mess, zero scouting and youth structure, terrible squad...it wasn't until SO'D's time that this was really resolved (remember, he brought in Pack, JET, Flint...)

[BTRFTG]

41 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Did you actually read the first two paragraphs?

Why would I need to negotiate a valuable contract?

I did, but what would be the point in you compiling a set of data if you had no use for it, if you were not to use it for negotiation of disposals and acquisitions? Thankfully, when I worked GDPR & DPA forebade me collating and storing data for which I had no purpose or intent.

And THAT was my point. You'd have data, of variable quality and nothing more.

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

I did, but what would be the point in you compiling a set of data if you had no use for it, if you were not to use it for negotiation of disposals and acquisitions? Thankfully, when I worked GDPR & DPA forebade me collating and storing data for which I had no purpose or intent.

And THAT was my point. You'd have data, of variable quality and nothing more.

I wouldn’t be doing the negotiation would I, so that point is irrelevant!  Does Sean Gilhespy negotiate player contracts and fees?  Nope.

But does that stop me compiling a list of prospective candidates, subject to the constraints I listed?  Is that any different to a freelance scout or any scout for that matter?  Could I furnish the club with that list?  Absolutely.  Could I provide them with full rationale in various forms (written, data, video, etc)? Absolutely.

In terms of GDPR and DPA if I was engaged by a club or I engaged them, I would then follow those regulations and the clubs policies too.  All of the info I have today is either publicly available (names, date of birth, etc), or through professional scouting software, where I already abide by their data T&Cs re storage and use in line with both of the regulations you note.

So I think I’m fine thanks, but appreciate your concern.

 

[AshtonGreat]

On 11/02/2021 at 11:26, Mr Chappers said:

Stable owner who loves the club, supports managers, has re-built the stadium, and developed top notch training facilities. That’s a problem most clubs would love to have

Top-notch training facilities :laugh:. So why is it that we are utter bilge season after season, and have one of the worst injury records in European football?

[NcnsBcfc]

2 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Top-notch training facilities :laugh:. So why is it that we are utter bilge season after season, and have one of the worst injury records in European football?

I was just asked by my eldest, why the Bears seem to have an £11m huge new training facility; whilst our new one (although very nice) is a much more modest affair?

Have to admit I couldn't answer that question. 

Why didn't we use the location that the bears are in now, to spend the money; and build a brand new Cat A facility. I think one of the requirements is an indoor pitch?

Seems a bit of a strange situation, when you consider size of the organisations; and respective payrolls etc.

Any views to placate a 15 year, would be appreciated.

[Alessandro]

Jeez - I know it’s a Friday, but...it’s a bit early to be on the Source and rambling away on an Internet forum isn’t?!

[AshtonGreat]

35 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said:

I was just asked by my eldest, why the Bears seem to have an £11m huge new training facility; whilst our new one (although very nice) is a much more modest affair?

Have to admit I couldn't answer that question. 

Why didn't we use the location that the bears are in now, to spend the money; and build a brand new Cat A facility. I think one of the requirements is an indoor pitch?

Seems a bit of a strange situation, when you consider size of the organisations; and respective payrolls etc.

Any views to placate a 15 year, would be appreciated.

I'm not really sure, to be honest. All I can say is that Lansdown and the board seem to be more interested in the rugby team having success than the football team

[pillred]

3 hours ago, Alex_BCFC said:

I very much doubt there is a long list. Especially right now I would imagine it would be zero.

Not at the moment no but going forward maybe, doesn't part of you think maybe it's time for a change? I find myself increasingly thinking yes risky as that might be.

[Alex_BCFC]

50 minutes ago, pillred said:

Not at the moment no but going forward maybe, doesn't part of you think maybe it's time for a change? I find myself increasingly thinking yes risky as that might be.

No not at all. A few changes next season and I think we can be on the right path again - things change very quickly in football. 

[pillred]

18 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

No not at all. A few changes next season and I think we can be on the right path again - things change very quickly in football. 

A few changes? give me your honest opinion what they should be, I'm desperate for us to find that elusive winning formula I wish I had the answers, your right we shouldn't be that far away with the players we have that's what makes it so frustrating. 

[Alex_BCFC]

5 minutes ago, pillred said:

A few changes? give me your honest opinion what they should be, I'm desperate for us to find that elusive winning formula I wish I had the answers, your right we shouldn't be that far away with the players we have that's what makes it so frustrating. 

As I’ve stated before on here, I think the Holden appointment was a short term measure as soon as it became apparent COVID was here for this season.

As soon as things are more certain for next season I suspect he will be replaced unless he performs miraculously. Which I don’t think he will and never expected him to.

You only have to see what happened when GJ or CotteriL came in to see things can change quickly with the right man in charge. The foundations I think are there and the squad actually - except a couple of quality additions in midfield - is good. 

[Superjack]

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I think it’s more a question of taking two steps forward and several bloody big ones backwards.

When We dispensed with the services of LJ , at least one season too late in my opinion, we were well placed to move up a level in terms of coaching staff and what did the brains at the helm do ? 
 

Got suckered in by the lovely human being Dean Holden , who is lovely by the way, and now we’re doing a Franz Klammer and somehow we’re worse than before. 
 

We all celebrate the success we have had but everyone, SL in particular, should be questioning why we have slipped back so dramatically in the last few months .

It’s far from gloom and doom but the football isn’t great and we are not getting the best out of a very talented squad.

 

I think it was Holden who got suckered in. 

[Sheltons Army]

18 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

As I’ve stated before on here, I think the Holden appointment was a short term measure as soon as it became apparent COVID was here for this season.

As soon as things are more certain for next season I suspect he will be replaced unless he performs miraculously. Which I don’t think he will and never expected him to.

You only have to see what happened when GJ or CotteriL came in to see things can change quickly with the right man in charge. The foundations I think are there and the squad actually - except a couple of quality additions in midfield - is good. 

Sorry but you keep repeating this, 

Firstly there was absolutely no indication that ‘ CoVid was in for the season ‘ when he was Appointed

And by previous history and track record , do you really believe the Lansdowns or Ashton are that forward thinking and astute, if that’s what they think it is ?

Someone may have come to the conclusion Holden isn’t up to it since , and held on contract talks for players but some master plan ....really ?

As for GJ and SC , 2 appointments , ( only one Lansdowns ) in .......how many years

Being polite ‘Optimistic’ on a number of fronts Id say

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, ncnsbcfc said:

I was just asked by my eldest, why the Bears seem to have an £11m huge new training facility; whilst our new one (although very nice) is a much more modest affair?

Have to admit I couldn't answer that question. 

Why didn't we use the location that the bears are in now, to spend the money; and build a brand new Cat A facility. I think one of the requirements is an indoor pitch?

Seems a bit of a strange situation, when you consider size of the organisations; and respective payrolls etc.

Any views to placate a 15 year, would be appreciated.

Suggests in the Accounts that our Training Ground was £12-13m. Only looked briefly at it but think it was stated at that but hasn't yet hit the Balance Sheet.

EDIT: Just checked. Capital Commitments £12,394,215 in respect of this.

Short version, depending how precise you want to be. You could say we spent £1,394,215 more on our training facility, you could round up (£1.4m) or down £1.39m.

[Mr Chappers]

4 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Top-notch training facilities :laugh:. So why is it that we are utter bilge season after season, and have one of the worst injury records in European football?

Having a sustained spell top half of the Championship, pretty good considering our history, so not entirely bilge. Bit unfair to blame the injuries on our new training facilities.

[steviestevieneville]

6 hours ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

I have actually answered the question, in my way. I get that it's not to your liking or framing and getting drawn into reaffirming or wanting your own views re-confirmed is folly.  Thanks though, especially as you mention 'dont mention the past, and then in the very next sentence go on about, er, the past. it kinda of shows where you want the discussion framed. Ta

Never mentioned the past at all, again more waffle. Still haven’t answered the question . Blah blah blah 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Sorry but you keep repeating this, 

Firstly there was absolutely no indication that ‘ CoVid was in for the season ‘ when he was Appointed

And by previous history and track record , do you really believe the Lansdowns or Ashton are that forward thinking and astute, if that’s what they think it is ?

Someone may have come to the conclusion Holden isn’t up to it since , and held on contract talks for players but some master plan ....really ?

As for GJ and SC , 2 appointments , ( only one Lansdowns ) in .......how many years

Being polite ‘Optimistic’ on a number of fronts Id say

 

My re-reading of the Report/summary, whatever at the top of the Accounts makes me wonder on the Contingency Planning bit.

Could simply be referring to the financials but a few snippets make me wonder as part of that, if indeed Holden could be a Covid planned appointment. 

One snippet and I'll happily link all the relevant bits later, suggests that planning is on the assumption that stadiums (stadia?) won't return to full capacity until Summer 2021. 

Devil in the details a bit though.

[Sheltons Army]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

My re-reading of the Report/summary, whatever at the top of the Accounts makes me wonder on the Contingency Planning bit.

Could simply be referring to the financials but a few snippets make me wonder as part of that, if indeed Holden could be a Covid planned appointment. 

One snippet and I'll happily link all the relevant bits later, suggests that planning is on the assumption that stadiums (stadia?) won't return to full capacity until Summer 2021. 

Devil in the details a bit though.

Interesting Mr Pop

( Dont worry about linking )

Difficult to work out what the ***** plan is , if we have one , tbh ! 

[Alex_BCFC]

3 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Sorry but you keep repeating this, 

Firstly there was absolutely no indication that ‘ CoVid was in for the season ‘ when he was Appointed

And by previous history and track record , do you really believe the Lansdowns or Ashton are that forward thinking and astute, if that’s what they think it is ?

Someone may have come to the conclusion Holden isn’t up to it since , and held on contract talks for players but some master plan ....really ?

As for GJ and SC , 2 appointments , ( only one Lansdowns ) in .......how many years

Being polite ‘Optimistic’ on a number of fronts Id say

 

There is a lot indication that COVID had a huge part to play. To start with SL talked of a proven manager to come in. There was no talk of fans returning any time soon so as the process went on I think they had to accept that they couldn’t promise a new manager the required funds to make city top 6 instead of top 10. The fact Holden was given a 12 month rolling contract would also point to this being a decision for this period.

Yes I do think SL is that astute. His recent history of managers has been good. He has done amazingly well in business and I think is finally improving re the football side of things. 

As with all of us - no one really knows for sure. I guess only time will tell if it was a short term appointment. I would be disappointed if he was here next season with things continuing as they are. But based on the situation at the time I think it was a sensible appointment. 

[Sheltons Army]

9 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

There is a lot indication that COVID had a huge part to play. To start with SL talked of a proven manager to come in. There was no talk of fans returning any time soon so as the process went on I think they had to accept that they couldn’t promise a new manager the required funds to make city top 6 instead of top 10. The fact Holden was given a 12 month rolling contract would also point to this being a decision for this period.

Yes I do think SL is that astute. His recent history of managers has been good. He has done amazingly well in business and I think is finally improving re the football side of things. 

As with all of us - no one really knows for sure. I guess only time will tell if it was a short term appointment. I would be disappointed if he was here next season with things continuing as they are. But based on the situation at the time I think it was a sensible appointment. 

Sorry Alex but in relation to Bristol City he’s not shown such astuteness at any point , save his Appointment of  GJ 

 

As for ‘His recent appointment of managers has been good’ 

I literally couldn’t disagree more - I’d be interested in your backing of that

[NcnsBcfc]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Suggests in the Accounts that our Training Ground was £12-13m. Only looked briefly at it but think it was stated at that but hasn't yet hit the Balance Sheet.

EDIT: Just checked. Capital Commitments £12,394,215 in respect of this.

Short version, depending how precise you want to be. You could say we spent £1,394,215 more on our training facility, you could round up (£1.4m) or down £1.39m.

Thanks @Mr Popodopolous

I must say in first impressions, the bear's facility seems a lot larger/extensive than ours.

Maybe the cost of the land/infrastructure at Failand had an impact on the total cost. If you look at the building structures themselves, there appears to be some disparity.