Downing and Simpson?

[Real Red]

I remember when the coaches were appointed, we were told they had contacts with the cream of the young footballing talent in the country, through England, and to expect some impressive loan signings, similar to the loans Pep was going to send us then  !!
Face masks at www.otibclothing.co.uk

[Northern Red]

32 minutes ago, Mark barton said:

When Johnson's job was on the line I wonder how helpful Holden was when he thought he might get a sniff of the managers job. I thought it strange that he stayed at the club. Likewise simpson seems to have more media coverage and hes been around football long enough to know that he has a chance of becoming manager if things continue, so how helpful is he being? Is he really giving Holden all his ideas? If Holden never teams up with johnson again then you know they have had a fall out.

Hell of a lot of assumptions there.

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, Oh Louie louie said:

Id be happy to see him get a 2nd chance silv, i dont think sl would be so charitable.

Not the right time for him.

Think you might have misunderstood my meaning - I don’t think Tinnion would want another crack at the managers job, and I differ from you in that I don’t really want him to get one. I think he’s perfect in the role he’s in.

What I’m saying is that if you got rid of Holden, the options are Simpson/Downing - which I think would be as toxic, they have no credit with the fan base - appointing a short term external candidate - which I’m not keen on - or an internal caretaker, which I think Tinnion is the best man for and would do.

Absolutely no intent to give him the role permanently. But someone who knows the club and players while we find our next good human looks sensible.

[Oh Louie louie]

It was nailed on holden was going with lj.

New brush sweeps clean etc.

That didnt work out how we expected.

[headhunter]

Morecambe & Wise

[Nogbad the Bad]

35 minutes ago, Mark barton said:

When Johnson's job was on the line I wonder how helpful Holden was when he thought he might get a sniff of the managers job. I thought it strange that he stayed at the club. Likewise simpson seems to have more media coverage and hes been around football long enough to know that he has a chance of becoming manager if things continue, so how helpful is he being? Is he really giving Holden all his ideas? If Holden never teams up with johnson again then you know they have had a fall out.

Probably.

Doesn't follow they're very good ones though. 

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Think you might have misunderstood my meaning - I don’t think Tinnion would want another crack at the managers job, and I differ from you in that I don’t really want him to get one. I think he’s perfect in the role he’s in.

What I’m saying is that if you got rid of Holden, the options are Simpson/Downing - which I think would be as toxic, they have no credit with the fan base - appointing a short term external candidate - which I’m not keen on - or an internal caretaker, which I think Tinnion is the best man for and would do.

Absolutely no intent to give him the role permanently. But someone who knows the club and players while we find our next good human looks sensible.

Think he’d be very useful in the interviewing process too, e.g. see through bullshit etc.

[Ska Junkie]

I wouldn't want a 'good human, I want a good Manager.

Totally appreciated this won't happen with captain spin in charge but it's what's needed IMHO.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think he’d be very useful in the interviewing process too, e.g. see through bullshit etc.

I haven’t met him but if I’m right, you have a few times. From my POV he strikes me as a very decent man, but not necessarily the sort of guy who could see through bs.

That’s probably unfair and almost definitely a hangover from his managerial stint where he seemed a bit naive. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That’s because SO’D is well thought of as a coach. Liverpool also employed him.

His issue is that he’s an incredibly dour and slightly odd man. That may be fine at a club the supporters acknowledge is punching above their weight (ie his time at Doncaster) but at the time our supporters never warmed to him.

The context of his time here is important, he had a very hard job to do. History should judge him kindly, he set lots of the groundwork in place for our eventual promotion.

He was a funny bugger.

Got pissy with Radio Local for their gormless post match "are we getting stuck in?" questions, yet spent evenings upstairs at the Rising Sun patiently fielding a range of questions from a range of City fans, amongst which were the gormless (questions and City fans).

He also went beyond the call of duty to answer more gormless questions from a supporter fanzine of the period, I believe. 

I think he liked teaching, as it were, and explaining, and coaching and theory, but he didn't seem to care for matchday so much. If he'd done Monday to Friday up Failand, and Cotts did Saturday with all its chest beating, fist clenching and call for "pashun!" we'd have been alright.

[Rob k]

14 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I haven’t met him but if I’m right, you have a few times. From my POV he strikes me as a very decent man, but not necessarily the sort of guy who could see through bs.

That’s probably unfair and almost definitely a hangover from his managerial stint where he seemed a bit naive. 

Another one who should never have been given a managers job when he was. 

[old parkender]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

It's impossible for us to judge the work they do behind the scenes but in hindsight it strikes me as a bit risky throwing three unfamiliar coaches together in Deano, Simmo and err... the Downmeister, and just expect them to click. There's a reason that managers typically use tried and trusted coaches.

We can’t judge what goes on behind the scenes but we certainly can judge what goes on on the pitch which is a direct consequence of the work put in behind the scenes, it’s abysmal. 
either our coaches are doing ok but the manager is instructing the players differently come match day or our coaches are indeed implementing this no shots no ambition stagnant football. Either way it’s not acceptable. 
 

[weepywall]

Looks to me like they are both stealing a living at AG, the football is worse than last season.

[Oh Louie louie]

Tinnion was a poor judge of a players character, thats for sure.

Dining, bridges, both made a monkey of him.

[Davefevs]

59 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I haven’t met him but if I’m right, you have a few times. From my POV he strikes me as a very decent man, but not necessarily the sort of guy who could see through bs.

That’s probably unfair and almost definitely a hangover from his managerial stint where he seemed a bit naive. 

In fact I haven’t met BT, but I know others who have, and therefore I think he would provide the “football” lens in an interview, that MA and JL can’t.

[Oh Louie louie]

Give the job to joe jordan.

How many bad buys did he make?

One of the best housekeepers ever.

Not being harsh on tins, last time he was in charge of signing we almost ended up in the bottom division.

[Oh Louie louie]

Ashton out, jordan in.

[spudski]

I've met and spoken to BT many times, introduced through friends who did scouting. He's passionate about what he's doing now...and credit, where credit is due, I think the Club have got it spot on with the role he has. He's doing a fantastic job.

I think what many of us overlook, and LJ mentioned this in the past, is apart from coaching ability, man management is essential these days.

Many of us come from a generation that is alien to most of these players now. And we literally can't get our head around it. They don't respond to critiscm well...it's all about encouragement and being told how good they are. Mention the bad points...and it doesn't motivate. It really is a different world...a world that moves very fast, and hard for many of us to keep up with or relate to.

A coach has to almost be parental with many players.

Imo...a Coach regardless of his credentials, has to have man management skills, an aura, a presence, an ability to walk in a room and the players hang on his every word, and believe in his words, and run through walls for him.

Now you can have nice human beings and all that...but when was the last time we had a coach or manager like that? 

I don't mean Bullys or people who shout a lot...but a real presence of authority.

Last one I remember like that was Joe Jordan. 

A presence of JJ with man management skills and coaching ability...do they exist?

 

Wow...just seen post above...what's the chances :laugh:

[Oh Louie louie]

Exactly somebody with presence, and a track record.

Well said spud.

[ohhhshauntaylor]

I said it at the time of their appointment and it’s been proven true. 
 

Millen > Wigley 

 

Holden > Downing/Simpson 

 

at least Wigley was a genuine number 2, as opposed to being a baby sitter of the national teams best players from an age group. 
 

 

[Red-Robbo]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

In fairness they have improved the shape of the team ‘out of possession ‘ but I fear that none of our coaches have the necessary skills to implement offensive patterns.

Our boys are very good at staying in shape but seem reluctant to break out and take the risks which can lead to a shot on goal. 

 

Not sure I'd agree with that, major.

When it comes to defending, we never seem to know who is supposed to be where. Our placement when the opposition takes set pieces is a horror show, with huge gaps and we are often totally static.  Maybe they practice defending using Subbuteo?  Inevitably, our smallest player on the pitch will be assigned to mark their tallest, as well. 

[LoyalRed]

4 hours ago, Top Robin said:

So we are all focussing on Holden and quite rightly - I definitely want him gone.

But what of Downing and Simpson? 

They were brought on as experienced, quality coaches who had worked at a high level.

When Holden was given the job, I for one thought that he might get away with it by having these two coaches who would basically sort the team out in terms of influencing and having an input into the selection, shape, playing style, strategy and tactics plus the new signings.

Quite frankly, they have done naff all and in some ways our team has regressed.

This has been the most disappointing aspect for me - I was kind of relying on these two.

They must have some degree of responsibility and if Holden goes, so should they.

They appear to be earning a wage doing sweet FA

[LoyalRed]

4 hours ago, Negan said:

Hopefully they walk when he’s sacked. Others might have thought they’d do well but I was very underwhelmed when we brought them in. Having looked at their club record it wasn’t great, I think the England roles fooled people in to thinking they were good but let’s be honest. No top manager is in the england set up, not even the one in charge of the national squad. Sorry to say but we’ve got the 3 stooges in charge of the team. God knows what goes on to produce what we’ve been watching for the last 6 months but if it was anything good we’d of started to see it by now. Sooner they are all gone the better. Knowing Ashton and JL though they’ll either keep with the current set up or sack Holden and give the job to one of the assistants. 

wow, you really are Negan aren't you 

[maxjak]

I'm a big fan of their earlier work..........Hancock's Half Hour and Steptoe & Son..................But this later Black Comedy, some would say Tragedy? is not up to the same standard, mainly due to very poor casting?.  And at 90 minutes per episode It cannot sustain my interest.   

[Lrrr]

So what are people actually expecting to hear/see them doing? 

[Bris Red]

3 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think if he was sacked tomorrow they’d both also be gone. Although the club have been tin eared recently, they know that appointing - even on a temporary basis - Downing or Simpson is likely to alienate the fan base further.

If they do sack Holden, my bet is that it’d be Tinnion for short term - no intent for permanent from either party, but would be a galvanising short term fix from the fans perspective, and he should know the squad well enough. Likely assisted by Gilmartin in the short term also 

For Christ sake after what happened last time a club legend like Brian Tinnion should not be put into that position again - it’s not fair on the bloke.

[harvey54]

3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That’s because SO’D is well thought of as a coach. Liverpool also employed him.

His issue is that he’s an incredibly dour and slightly odd man. That may be fine at a club the supporters acknowledge is punching above their weight (ie his time at Doncaster) but at the time our supporters never warmed to him.

The context of his time here is important, he had a very hard job to do. History should judge him kindly, he set lots of the groundwork in place for our eventual promotion.

He's incredibly shy. I met him at a charity dinner at afcb and he hardly spoke to anyone all night. When I chatted to a couple of players they said that was just his way and that he was very shy and intelligent. His players loved him because he encouraged them to express themselves and take responsibility on the pitch. He likes intelligent players. Maybe that's why he struggled at City. 

[SecretSam]

4 hours ago, Top Robin said:

So we are all focussing on Holden and quite rightly - I definitely want him gone.

But what of Downing and Simpson? 

They were brought on as experienced, quality coaches who had worked at a high level.

When Holden was given the job, I for one thought that he might get away with it by having these two coaches who would basically sort the team out in terms of influencing and having an input into the selection, shape, playing style, strategy and tactics plus the new signings.

Quite frankly, they have done naff all and in some ways our team has regressed.

This has been the most disappointing aspect for me - I was kind of relying on these two.

They must have some degree of responsibility and if Holden goes, so should they.

SO'D was a good coach - didn't Carey say he was the best he ever worked with? But...

[SecretSam]

4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That’s because SO’D is well thought of as a coach. Liverpool also employed him.

His issue is that he’s an incredibly dour and slightly odd man. That may be fine at a club the supporters acknowledge is punching above their weight (ie his time at Doncaster) but at the time our supporters never warmed to him.

The context of his time here is important, he had a very hard job to do. History should judge him kindly, he set lots of the groundwork in place for our eventual promotion.

Spot on, good coach, but not necessarily a good 'manager'

[alexukhc]

What’s Steve McClaren upto?