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Chickens home to roost.


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7 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Harsh, What did you expect him to say? How many people speak out against their employer and say they were expecting a hammering?

Quite right.  Tins started the afternoon being quite optimistic, but by the second half he was angry, upset and clearly hating every minute of it.  Certainly no excuses from him: I was shocked by just how angry the performance seemed to make him.

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Agree completely.

This club needs a complete overhaul before it's too late and we're back to square 1 and in League 1 again. 

The transfers since 2018 have been poor, the football has been poor and we have mostly been hoping to get points rather than actually deservedly picking up results.

We need a Man in charge who will be in control of all transfers and scouting activity.

There is so much else wrong which has led to the fans anger. From the social media team to the ownership it seems the club is getting it all very wrong over the past couple of years and are way out of touch with loyal supporters.

I can only see us going one way as it stands and that's down under how the club is being currently run, History is repeating itself

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1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Doesn’t mean he’s got to come out with a comment like this though 

Maybe he means it , which is even more alarming

 

I alluded to it last week, but it is almost like the club in a strange cult like way have closed ranks and actually believe they have some sort of masterplan that us mere fans are not allowed to know about it.

The way it was going when Semenyo was down injured in the first half, I was almost brainwashed and had to keep reminding myself that yes, football is actually about how many goals you score in comparison to your opposition.

I’ll repeat it - from marketing, to social media, to comms about contracts, transfers, to personnel, to performances, nothing is easy to like about our club right now.

Reminder - the board sacked Lee Johnson with a mission statement of “a breath of fresh air” and “top 6 finish”.

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1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

I alluded to it last week, but it is almost like the club in a strange cult like way have closed ranks and actually believe they have some sort of masterplan that us mere fans are not allowed to know about it.

The way it was going when Semenyo was down injured in the first half, I was almost brainwashed and had to keep reminding myself that yes, football is actually about how many goals you score in comparison to your opposition.

I’ll repeat it - from marketing, to social media, to comms about contracts, transfers, to personnel, to performances, nothing is easy to like about our club right now.

Reminder - the board sacked Lee Johnson with a mission statement of “a breath of fresh air” and “top 6 finish”.

All running around making excuses for each other

Tinnion won’t hear a word against the Club which in some ways admirable but also blind

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5 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

We could have appointed Jürgen Klopp problem being with our squad we'd now be looking at one extra tall and very thin German spread all over the carriageway.

Holden isn't great, but he isn't the problem. As some of us have been banging on for 3 years or more this is the 'carousel of crap' accumulated under WeeLee. Now you can blame him, or Ashton. Me? I blame them both in equal proportion.

 

Agree Holden isn’t the problem - can’t blame him for taking the job. Blame lies squarely with the arrogant and incompetent decision makers as our club who serially appoint pet lapdogs who will be useless and utterly servile in equal measure. 
 

 

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8 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

All running around making excuses for each other

Tinnion won’t hear a word against the Club which in some ways admirable but also blind

It's the likes of Tinnion who ensure we continue to languish where we are. We need a complete clear out.

Edited by BTRFTG
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Comparison to Bristol Bears will in lots of ways be unrealistic, but what they have done is appoint the best possible person they could afford/attract and then the whole club revolves around that person (Pat Lam), which has risks, but ensures clarity and accountability. Mark Tainton as CEO is very clearly not driving the on pitch approach (ex Bristol player, so not totally unqualified), it all revolves around Lam.

City won’t be able to afford or attract the equivalent of Lam, as we’re a smaller fish in a bigger pond than the Bears. But we could easily follow the same principles.

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2 minutes ago, WessexPest said:

Agree Holden isn’t the problem - can’t blame him for taking the job. Blame lies squarely with the arrogant and incompetent decision makers as our club who serially appoint pet lapdogs who will be useless and utterly servile in equal measure. 
 

 

Yes but Holden has to carry the responsibility.

v. Cardiff last week “know how much it means, reaction, etc” - awful awful performance.

v. Watford “smiles on peoples faces, reaction, lets go” - 0-6 defeat.

Now - is he incapable of translating the words he says into performances? Evidently.

Yes, not his fault he was appointed, but 100% his fault for not realising he is not up to it, and demeaning his personal credibility.

The whole Dean Holden honest straight up guy thing started grating me after the whole “no loans in” (Lansbury signed), “no news on injuries” (speaks to Aston five times a day) episode in and around the hiding we got at Norwich.

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1 minute ago, WessexPest said:

Agree Holden isn’t the problem - can’t blame him for taking the job. Blame lies squarely with the arrogant and incompetent decision makers as our club who serially appoint pet lapdogs who will be useless and utterly servile in equal measure. 
 

 

Sorry Holden is the problem and fully responsible for the performance on the pitch, tactics and team selection and needs to be the 1st out the door followed by his band of merry men

We don't know the full reasoning behind DH appointment just speculation. He may have sold his vision of how he could improve where LJ failed and been given the oppurtunity as the least disruption. 

MA will at the minimum need to revise his role or follow out the doir if that's the barrier to getting a top manager.

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Where as a club are we succeeding at the moment?

On the pitch - No

Recruitment - Not for a long time

In the treatment room - Ha

Getting value for our players - Overall yes, though I would argue some have been sold below value as we’ve let their contracts run down

Fan satisfaction - No. This is mostly linked to on the pitch results but there’s been a ‘customers not supporters’ vibe for some time now.

Commercially - Yes. Since the redevelopment and before COVID, AG was making good money.

Player development - Yes, some good young players getting minutes this season. 
 

It’s tough not to point fingers at Ashton as the man above the manager for a lot of these things, but Jon has to take some flack too as the chairman.


 

 

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I agree on most point the OP has made and is 100% right with the title, the board are the architects of their own downfall. We have the nucleus of a decent squad who are lacking direction from the head coach/manager. I will refuse to blame Dean Holden, not because he's doing a good job, because he shouldn't have been given the job in the first place.

There are many threads on here calling for Ashton to be sacked. I would keep him but redefine his role limiting him to financial aspects such as selling at the best price, a role he has excelled in. We need to overhaul our recruitment department to work with an experienced manager with a good track record. Given the strength of feeling that led to LJ's sacking appointing his number 2 was always going to be controversial and what we are seeing is a LJ clone in many respects.

We have the players good enough to hold their own in this league but what's the point of having  a fast car without a steering wheel? We are in desperate need of direction, someone that can get the best out of player such as Palmer and Wells and whose philosophy is to get a good tactic, sticking to it and letting the opposition worry about matching us. 

Covid and injuries have had an affect on us and it has been difficult for Dean but that doesn't hide the fact we are naive tactically. We need a man in charge who the squad can look to with respect, someone who has been there and done that. Are we likely to see that in the near future? Probably not.

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3 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Where as a club are we succeeding at the moment?

On the pitch - No

Recruitment - Not for a long time

In the treatment room - Ha

Getting value for our players - Overall yes, though I would argue some have been sold below value as we’ve let their contracts run down

Fan satisfaction - No. This is mostly linked to on the pitch results but there’s been a ‘customers not supporters’ vibe for some time now.

Commercially - Yes. Since the redevelopment and before COVID, AG was making good money.

Player development - Yes, some good young players getting minutes this season. 
 

It’s tough not to point fingers at Ashton as the man above the manager for a lot of these things, but Jon has to take some flack too as the chairman.


 

 

Jon is in charge of crayons and childish tweets. A key role, though we haven't seen much of the latter recently so he needs to up his game.

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Just watched Dean’s post match.

Looks like hard work and getting a reaction is the answer.

We are ok then, as we clearly didn’t see fit to do apply that groundbreaking approach following our absolutely diabolical performance against Cardiff.

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A monumental mistake was made last time around (and the time before in my opinion) in recruiting a team manager.

With one stand out candidate and several other strong choices available, all were ignored in favour of an internal appointment to see in what was billed as a refreshing change. 

Mind boggling and those responsible, in highly paid and powerful positions should be held to account. No matter who they are. 

That's not personal, it's just business. 

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28 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Sorry Holden is the problem and fully responsible for the performance on the pitch, tactics and team selection and needs to be the 1st out the door followed by his band of merry men

We don't know the full reasoning behind DH appointment just speculation. He may have sold his vision of how he could improve where LJ failed and been given the oppurtunity as the least disruption. 

MA will at the minimum need to revise his role or follow out the doir if that's the barrier to getting a top manager.

Mark Ashton isn’t paid 50-60% over the going rate to be sold a pup. When a business is failing start from the top.

Edited by Numero Uno
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1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

Spot on

And just on Kalas - Really wanted him here but as a senior player and International he’s been an awful captain and ‘leader’ - providing a very poor example

 - Never mind , in his Lamborghini to drive home

Makes my blood boil

 

With all due respect to Kalas; Him and Bentley, at least up until recently - have carried this team, and most of this season he's led by example.

The issue is, Kalas shouldn't be captain, so the blame of that lies with Ashton, IMO.

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52 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

Was constantly getting shot down when saying anything remotely negative after a lucky win. These people seemed to have gone quiet or had enough too.

If the football was alot better there wouldn't be half as much criticism after a result like today. But its clear to see ( which is no surprise considering he's been part of the problem for the last two years) that DH has no idea to get this team playing. The team has no philosophy on the pitch and I have no idea what the CLUB is trying to achieve off it. 

I can't belive at what SL has achieved in business. Because when it comes to running a football club he is useless.

Honest although hyperthetical question. Would SL appoint someone in the business world with such little qualifications? Or who's been failing for the last two years. No chance.

Stubbornness or maybe more arrogance.

I'll never forget him saying it his his money so he can do what he bloody likes.

 

I know that feeling. I've been absolutely battered on this forum in recent times, first for my outspoken opinions of Johnson....and again this season with what was always going to be a disasterous appointment . If anyone genuinely thought this would work out then you know absolutely nothing about football. 

To many fans of this club have been brainwashed into believing we should accept the mediocre bollocks that keeps getting thrown in front of us by Steve Lansdown and Ashton . I won't even mention that head on a stick that is Jon Lansdown....jesus wept 

City fans on social media saying we should be 'grateful' for what we got. Grow a set. Start asking some serious questions of what is going on behind the scenes at this club because I'm telling you now, those that are running it do not give a flying **** about us as fans. 

To many fans have allowed themselves to be sucked in to the belief that 'if it wasn't for Uncle Steve and little Jonny' we wouldn't have what we have . 

Our fan base has gone soft as shit I tell you . 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Mark Ashton isn’t paid 50-60% over the going rate to be sold a pup. When a business is failing start from the top.

I was responding to Holden is not the problem, which is totally the problem on the pitch. This is much worse than LJ which was still under MA

BTW not saying MA should stay

Need to appoint a top quality coach / manager and create the environment for that

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This club is rotten to the core.

Forget all the bollox you here from Ashton. Most on here will read through all the crap he spews out. The club has been going backwards for 2 years. Selling all your star players and replacing with mediocrity is only going to lead to relegation which is precisely where Bristol City are heading, unless change happens FAST.
What amazes me is how assholes on this forum continue to stand up in support of Dean Holden (out of his depth), Ashton (complete asshole), and the coaching staff. 
Shambolic mess.

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6 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

I know that feeling. I've been absolutely battered on this forum in recent times, first for my outspoken opinions of Johnson....and again this season with what was always going to be a disasterous appointment . If anyone genuinely thought this would work out then you know absolutely nothing about football. 

To many fans of this club have been brainwashed into believing we should accept the mediocre bollocks that keeps getting thrown in front of us by Steve Lansdown and Ashton . I won't even mention that head on a stick that is Jon Lansdown....jesus wept 

City fans on social media saying we should be 'grateful' for what we got. Grow a set. Start asking some serious questions of what is going on behind the scenes at this club because I'm telling you now, those that are running it do not give a flying **** about us as fans. 

To many fans have allowed themselves to be sucked in to the belief that 'if it wasn't for Uncle Steve and little Jonny' we wouldn't have what we have . 

Our fan base has gone soft as shit I tell you . 

 

 

The issue is clearly above Holden who will be the fall guy. You’ve got to look at the Executive who earns £500k per year. We’re not talking about a £50k per year plumber here. Once you take high flying jobs at that salary it’s cut throat and so it bloody well should be too.

The Exec appointed Holden who is clearly struggling and he appointed a Head of Performance currently overseeing his THIRD injury catastrophe in as many clubs. In any other business shareholders would be asking whether he is up to making such appointments.

That has always been my issue. Blaming Holden is taking the easy way out. Meanwhile the bloke who appointed him gets to make the next appointment and if its another of his mates, Appleton, then I’m done until  he’s out of the door.

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4 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

This club is rotten to the core.

Forget all the bollox you here from Ashton. Most on here will read through all the crap he spews out. The club has been going backwards for 2 years. Selling all your star players and replacing with mediocrity is only going to lead to relegation which is precisely where Bristol City are heading, unless change happens FAST.
What amazes me is how assholes on this forum continue to stand up in support of Dean Holden (out of his depth), Ashton (complete asshole), and the coaching staff. 
Shambolic mess.

13 players out injured doesn't help- not one bit- and even two loanees we recalled were injured on recall.

Mind you, Ashton I assume appointed the fitness team, medical men etc...he appointed them. Therefore that is surely his blame 100%.

I query whether varied signings are that bad or they've been knocked down a few notches by- I dunno coaching, conditioning, medical, training, tactics- you name it. On the other hand, they get paid quite handsomely- they should fight like hell though I have some sympathy with academy players thrown in due to injury crisis.

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29 minutes ago, Red_Alligator said:

A monumental mistake was made last time around (and the time before in my opinion) in recruiting a team manager.

With one stand out candidate and several other strong choices available, all were ignored in favour of an internal appointment to see in what was billed as a refreshing change. 

Mind boggling and those responsible, in highly paid and powerful positions should be held to account. No matter who they are. 

That's not personal, it's just business. 

 

A succinct summary there.

To my mind, you might appoint internally if the club's purring and your head honcho has been poached by a higher club.  Then you can at least say, "well he's not managed before, but he's learnt from one of the best and has been a big part of our success story!"

AND, if the bloke in question has taken the reigns temporarily and had a rip-roaring success.

Holden didn't fulfil either criterion. The club was slipping down the table and continued to slide after Johnson was given the heave-ho.

 

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1 hour ago, BCFC Grim said:

Was constantly getting shot down when saying anything remotely negative after a lucky win. These people seemed to have gone quiet or had enough too.

If the football was alot better there wouldn't be half as much criticism after a result like today. But its clear to see ( which is no surprise considering he's been part of the problem for the last two years) that DH has no idea to get this team playing. The team has no philosophy on the pitch and I have no idea what the CLUB is trying to achieve off it. 

I can't belive at what SL has achieved in business. Because when it comes to running a football club he is useless.

Honest although hyperthetical question. Would SL appoint someone in the business world with such little qualifications? Or who's been failing for the last two years. No chance.

Stubbornness or maybe more arrogance.

I'll never forget him saying it his his money so he can do what he bloody likes.

 

Yep.

Was shot down in flames on here for daring to criticise after the backs-to-the-wall last hour at home to Huddersfield.

Unfortunately a lot of our fanbase, and some on here are blind to anything but the result.

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36 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

I know that feeling. I've been absolutely battered on this forum in recent times, first for my outspoken opinions of Johnson....and again this season with what was always going to be a disasterous appointment . If anyone genuinely thought this would work out then you know absolutely nothing about football. 

To many fans of this club have been brainwashed into believing we should accept the mediocre bollocks that keeps getting thrown in front of us by Steve Lansdown and Ashton . I won't even mention that head on a stick that is Jon Lansdown....jesus wept 

City fans on social media saying we should be 'grateful' for what we got. Grow a set. Start asking some serious questions of what is going on behind the scenes at this club because I'm telling you now, those that are running it do not give a flying **** about us as fans. 

To many fans have allowed themselves to be sucked in to the belief that 'if it wasn't for Uncle Steve and little Jonny' we wouldn't have what we have . 

Our fan base has gone soft as shit I tell you . 

 

 

The resident apologists are as bad as the ones making shite decisions

 

image.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Wiltshire robin said:

Spot on , too many deluded happy clappers on this forum with the injuries and covid excuses , today was pathetic 

I think they are valid excuses for not being in the top six tbf - and you don't need to be a deluded happy clapper to recognise it.

But they are not excuses for the slide into total capitulation - which has been coming for a few games now.

Mentally and physically soft - and this club has been like that for years now.

That is down to recruitment - all the noise about DNA blah blah. It means **** all if we are signing mentally soft players who won't put a foot in where it might hurt or wilt when under too much pressure. We have a very small number that I'll excuse from this, but they are the exception. 

TBF to Holden, he recognised it and mentioned it himself when taking the job, so he knew the problem. But he's not managed to stop the rot and has become part of the problem imo.

LJ and his dad used the phrase "players I can trust", I know exactly what they meant and it seems to me that Holden doesn't have too many of those at his disposal. That is down to recruitment.

I'm not sure who is responsible for new player selection, its a bit blurred, but whoever it is needs to up their game or move on. 

Should Holden be sacked ? I'd have to reluctantly say yes, as he's not resolved a problem he himself identified on taking the job and which has dogged him since that day.

 

 

 

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