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Time to defend?


mozo

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Now I’m no military strategist but it seems logical to me that if your side are taking a pounding time and again you get to a point (eg 0-6 defeat) where you have to consolidate what you’ve got, forget about attacking and focus on frustrating the opponent.

Should we go back to basics and make keeping a clean sheet our priority?

Arguably Holden’s biggest naivety is his insistence on fielding a line up filled with attack minded players when we play tough opposition. And yet, bizarrely, we never actually manage to attack.

Should we turn to a less enterprising solidity with a focus on % play and set-pieces - a la his mentor Big Sam -  just until we get some form back?

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Yes. Every good team has to start with a solid defence to build from. Unfortunately with have too many players who continually give the ball away too cheaply in dangerous positions. Coaches must also take more than their share of the blame for not instilling that need to know when to play the ball out of danger. At times the biggest dangers we face as a team are of our own making. 

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6 minutes ago, KeepUpLino said:

I am absolutely flabbergasted you suggest we turn to less enterprising solidity... This side couldn’t get any more less enterprising if they tried!! 

Yeah let me explain... I think the team are told to be enterprising, but clearly they are incapable (be it the fault of the players or coaches or both).

So I’m just contemplating if the instructions need to be to park the bus now?

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18 minutes ago, mozo said:

Yeah let me explain... I think the team are told to be enterprising, but clearly they are incapable (be it the fault of the players or coaches or both).

So I’m just contemplating if the instructions need to be to park the bus now?

I think we need to just move on... if the management don’t move him on I truly believe the fans need to take a stance and not renew..., we need to take back some control of our football club.. Enough is enough

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This is the most defensive City team I have ever seen. Two strikers on the pitch fair enough but 8 other outfielders nowhere near them. We lose when we concede the first goal and win when we nick an early goal then hang on somehow for the rest of the game.

I expect the average score for the rest of the game after we score a goal is 0-0.

 

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25 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I agree.

The free flowing attacking football we've grown accustomed to lately, while fantastic to watch, isn't sustainable.

Holden can't expect us to keep scoring 3 each game as we have done recently so a slight readjustment is certainly needed.

You’ve had too much of a good thing this season you spoilt brat

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37 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I agree.

The free flowing attacking football we've grown accustomed to lately, while fantastic to watch, isn't sustainable.

Holden can't expect us to keep scoring 3 each game as we have done recently so a slight readjustment is certainly needed.

I am now confused. When did we play free flowing  football this season 

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38 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I agree.

The free flowing attacking football we've grown accustomed to lately, while fantastic to watch, isn't sustainable.

Holden can't expect us to keep scoring 3 each game as we have done recently so a slight readjustment is certainly needed.

I agree. These 4-3 defeats are boiling my piss.

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4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Then we need a solid back 3. I actually think Mariappa in the back 3 might be wise at the moment. Like others have suggested, Kalas left of the back 3

Agree about Mariappa in the three and Kalas left, who fills the third position? Zac I presume, although TM is much more comfortable NOT left, but I think he may have shot his bolt yesterday.

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16 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Problem is if Towler is not ready, then who do we play left back.

Hopefully Nurse and O'Dowda are back soon and then I guess we carry on wing backs with either of those left wing back.

Then we need a solid back 3. I actually think Mariappa in the back 3 might be wise at the moment. Like others have suggested, Kalas left of the back 3 probably sorts that weak side of the system out defensively.

I still think Nagy left wing back could work. Good players should be able to adapt to different roles. 

I still think we can play positive front foot football and defend well. A key thing for me is sorting the front line. We need to play a side that is compact and with good energy. Make it hard for the opponents to play it out and have pace and movement in front of players when we have possession.

4-5-1 to really pack the midfield and focus on regrouping into a defensive shape at the first sniff of lost possession.

Full backs told not to overlap.

Channel balls to win set-pieces up the pitch.

Defend deeper but tighter to the man on the ball.

It would be horrible to watch but might lay foundations?

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8 minutes ago, weepywall said:

Well with 9 shots on target in the last 5 games that would suggest we are a defensive team...unfortunately the goals conceded dont back that up....shambles springs to mind !

I don’t think it’s quite as simple as that. Much of our problems at the back are dealing with counter attacks which suggests to me we’re either giving players a license to go forward or we’re terrible at getting back in shape. Probably both. 
I think we’re defending by necessity, not by choice.


I’m suggesting we err on the side of caution to eliminate the breakaway issue. Then to drill defensive shape and instil a more negative mindset. 
 

Basically we need something akin to Mourinho vs a top 6 side. Sitting in and shutting down every avenue.

10 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yep i would go with that formation ideally, but who left back?

Maybe take a massive gamble with Nagy as an attacking left back with a centre back type right back in Vyner or Mapps the other. Until Nurse is back, or maybe even O'Dowda there when he is back.

I think if Holden does go 4 at the back then Mapps will be the one to play left back. That's the last thing I want to see.

 

Would Hunt and Mariappa fare much better as the two full backs if they’re not asked to cross the halfway line and have wide midfielders screening them instead of forwards with attacking licence?

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30 minutes ago, mozo said:

4-5-1 to really pack the midfield and focus on regrouping into a defensive shape at the first sniff of lost possession.

Full backs told not to overlap.

Channel balls to win set-pieces up the pitch.

Defend deeper but tighter to the man on the ball.

It would be horrible to watch but might lay foundations?

The more players we put into midfield yesterday, the easier it seemed to be that Watford played around or through us.

Its not about numbers in midfield, just like playing two or three or four up-front isn’t more attacking than one up-top.

It’s got to be about a plan, a shape, a system.

There was an occasion yesterday (20ish mins in) where our defence had transitioned into a flat 5, but with 6 Watford players beyond our midfield, where poor old (young) Massengo was pressing the ball on his own.  A classic tale of midfield and defence not communicating, not tracking or nor passing runners effectively.  In effect, looking like they were in good shape, but as wide open to being exploited as possible.

There were other situations similar to this, but this one stood out

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2 hours ago, mozo said:

Yeah let me explain... I think the team are told to be enterprising, but clearly they are incapable (be it the fault of the players or coaches or both).

So I’m just contemplating if the instructions need to be to park the bus now?

I dont,

I actually don't think the team are being told to do anything. It's the only reason we look like a pub team when there's almost 40 million quids worth of talent on the pitch

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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The more players we put into midfield yesterday, the easier it seemed to be that Watford played around or through us.

Its not about numbers in midfield, just like playing two or three or four up-front isn’t more attacking than one up-top.

It’s got to be about a plan, a shape, a system.

There was an occasion yesterday (20ish mins in) where our defence had transitioned into a flat 5, but with 6 Watford players beyond our midfield, where poor old (young) Massengo was pressing the ball on his own.  A classic tale of midfield and defence not communicating, not tracking or nor passing runners effectively.  In effect, looking like they were in good shape, but as wide open to being exploited as possible.

There were other situations similar to this, but this one stood out

Good shout. Whether it’s 4 across midfield or 5, they could adopt a low block. Then pick the players best suited to parking the bus.

At 3-0 down we were still closing down high up the pitch, harrying their defenders and leaving big gaps in midfield. Why? Just shut up shop and save your blushes. The team were given the wrong instructions right from the off and even when the game was lost we continued to give Watford space and time and counter attacks.

4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

I dont,

I actually don't think the team are being told to do anything. It's the only reason we look like a pub team when there's almost 40 million quids worth of talent on the pitch

Fair point!

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We can’t defend as we have no organisation or steel. We can’t attack as we no flair or offensive intentions.

Whichever way you look at it it is a miracle that we somehow already have 39 points - which may just save our bacon this season.

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I honestly don’t think it matters what Holden does or how he sets things up. It’s abundantly clear he isn’t going to be our manager next season so we are simply delaying the inevitable. 
It’s like watching one of the wildlife shows where they show the cheetah in super slo-mo. We are the hapless gazelle. 

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9 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

I dont,

I actually don't think the team are being told to do anything. It's the only reason we look like a pub team when there's almost 40 million quids worth of talent on the pitch

I agree with the lack of direction and its obviously come to a head after a truly shite result, but worth noting in Saar, Watford had a single player worth £40m so we were always going to be on a fizzer playing them unfortunately, gutted with the result yes, surprised - no. 

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6 minutes ago, Harry said:

I honestly don’t think it matters what Holden does or how he sets things up. It’s abundantly clear he isn’t going to be our manager next season so we are simply delaying the inevitable. 
It’s like watching one of the wildlife shows where they show the cheetah in super slo-mo. We are the hapless gazelle. 

If it’s on Disney+, the gazelle normally gets away, because they don’t like showing death.  If they showed it on Robinstv the gazelle gets relegated! ???

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