Jump to content
IGNORED

Mark Ashton


shelts

Recommended Posts

35 minutes ago, tin said:

Sacked Cotts and broke up his double-winning team.

Assembled a failing recruitment team partially using his own business, with a family member heading it up and the best they can come up with is ageing journeymen.

Appointed his mates to head up the medical department, who’ve overseen our worst run of injuries — not just this year, last year too. 

Most importantly, IMO, he’s been proven to be completely full of shit. Keen to take credit when it’s going well, throws everyone under the bus when the wheels come falling off. 

I don’t care what he earns if he’s doing his job well, but he isn’t and is mugging SL blind IMO.

This.

32 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

He’s a great negotiator, nobody is questioning that. What do you think about his football appointments, Dean Holden, Keith Downing, Paul Simpson and Andy Rolls?

Do you enjoy watching us play? Are we meeting the stated albeit pie in the sky aims of Top 6? Do you enjoy reading about player after player being out for literally months on end? Do you think it was good for the club that we have a player moaning to the press about poor rehabilitation protocols?

Is he a great negotiator?  Got good money for players sold, undoubtedly.  I could be facetious and say it’s in an inflationary market, but that’s terse.  But I’d say he’s paid over the odds on players inbound too....so is a great negotiator or some someone who has been around in boom time and rode that period out?

A bit of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other possibly.

He’s been unable to get our good players to stay here too.

He’s not as highly regarded as he’d like to make out.

 

 

But @shelts, I don’t think he’s the single point of blame (even if he’s cleverly positioned himself in a role  in the club to put his “cock on the block”), there are failings all over.  SL, JL, LJ and now DH....although you could argue that he’s paying in some part for the ineptness of the past couple of years.  DH hasn’t helped himself in the past three months in highlighting his own inexperience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, phantom said:

There must be a benefit somewhere, otherwise why do so many rich and successful businessmen continually invest in such a loss making industry 

To some I guess it’s philanthropy, to others ego, for some a decent tax right-off, and for others money laundering. Albeit you’d hope that the EFL ownership checks might flush the last one out.

I’m not sure that the lure of TV rights money is a driver these days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

He’s a great negotiator, nobody is questioning that. What do you think about his football appointments, Dean Holden, Keith Downing, Paul Simpson and Andy Rolls?

Do you enjoy watching us play? Are we meeting the stated albeit pie in the sky aims of Top 6? Do you enjoy reading about player after player being out for literally months on end? Do you think it was good for the club that we have a player moaning to the press about poor rehabilitation protocols?

Didn't agree with the appointment of Dean but see it as it is. A cost saving option. Everyone else you have listed I believe are Dean's appointments so shouldn't be held against Ashton. 

The football is shit. I hate watching us play. But that's down to the manager. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, shelts said:

Can you guys explain to me why Ashton is such a hated figure ?

Oh go on then, I'll have a go too. And in the words of the great man himself, let me be really clear (Geoff).

It comes down to something very simple - Return on Investment (RoI) - language SL should understand.

  • He's sold 7 players for £75m and everyone applauds and thinks what a great businessman. 
  • But at most he recruited 2 of them (Webster, Brownhill) although JB was well known to LJ.
  • Most pre-dated him, as @Davefevs puts it: he has simply been "selling the family silver".
  • Now here's the big problem for me. He has spent a majority of that money. And for what?
  • People seem to think if we only spend £1m or £2m a time on players we are saving money.
  • The current squad includes 14 £1m+ signings with a total transfer outlay of over £40m.
  • In the past he signed Engvall, Eliasson, Szmodics, Magnússon, Djuric, Eisa all £1m+ too.
  • He has already made a net loss on the purchase and sale of the second group of players.  
  • Looks likely with current lot too. If Fam walks it's an extra £5m needed just to break even. 
  • His best hope is selling Semenyo but surely it's being bailed out by the family silver again?  

So in effect "making us money" is a myth, his poor recruitment and a lack of RoI is a ticking timebomb.

Of the £75m sold, he's presided over likely loss making spending of more than £50m on other players.

He's totally unaccountable - he gives only rare, deliberately timed, disingenuous interviews full of spin.

And this is to say nothing of the bad things I hear about his actual approach to scouting and player ID.

It has nothing to do with how he speaks, I work in business myself and people like him are ten a penny.

But at £500k pa he's robbing a living and will hide behind the young coach again when it all goes bad.

Did that help? By the way, hate is a strong word. I think resent is better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Furious Custard said:

Didn't agree with the appointment of Dean but see it as it is. A cost saving option. Everyone else you have listed I believe are Dean's appointments so shouldn't be held against Ashton. 

The football is shit. I hate watching us play. But that's down to the manager. 

Andy Rolls, Keith Downing and Paul Simpson are Dean Holden appointments?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Andy Rolls, Keith Downing and Paul Simpson are Dean Holden appointments?

It has always been clear that Dean requested kieth and Paul as part of his setup when he interviewed for the job. Look at the interviews with Dean and Mark from when he was appointed full time. 

I'll be honest but I'm  ot 100% on Rolls but based on the fact that all the other staff and team appointments have been given the final say by the manager.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Olé said:

Oh go on then, I'll have a go too. And in the words of the great man himself, let me be really clear (Geoff).

It comes down to something very simple - Return on Investment (RoI) - language SL should understand.

  • He's sold 7 players for £75m and everyone applauds and thinks what a great businessman. 
  • But at most he recruited 2 of them (Webster, Brownhill) although JB was well known to LJ.
  • Most pre-dated him, as @Davefevs puts it: he has simply been "selling the family silver".
  • Now here's the big problem for me. He has spent a majority of that money. And for what?
  • People seem to think if we only spend £1m or £2m a time on players we are saving money.
  • The current squad includes 14 £1m+ signings with a total transfer outlay of over £40m.
  • In the past he signed Engvall, Eliasson, Szmodics, Magnússon, Djuric, Eisa all £1m+ too.
  • He has already made a net loss on the purchase and sale of the second group of players.  
  • Looks likely with current lot too. If Fam walks it's an extra £5m needed just to break even. 
  • His best hope is selling Semenyo but surely it's being bailed out by the family silver again?  

So in effect "making us money" is a myth, his poor recruitment and a lack of RoI is a ticking timebomb.

Of the £75m sold, he's presided over likely loss making spending of more than £50m on other players.

He's totally unaccountable - he gives only rare, deliberately timed, disingenuous interviews full of spin.

And this is to say nothing of the bad things I hear about his actual approach to scouting and player ID.

It has nothing to do with how he speaks, I work in business myself and people like him are ten a penny.

But at £500k pa he's robbing a living and will hide behind the young coach again when it all goes bad.

Did that help? By the way, hate is a strong word. I think resent is better.

..... and, while I’m reluctant to give LJ credit for anything, he made it (oddly) very clear that both Brownhill and Webster were ‘his’ signings. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Olé said:

Oh go on then, I'll have a go too. And in the words of the great man himself, let me be really clear (Geoff).

It comes down to something very simple - Return on Investment (RoI) - language SL should understand.

  • He's sold 7 players for £75m and everyone applauds and thinks what a great businessman. 
  • But at most he recruited 2 of them (Webster, Brownhill) although JB was well known to LJ.
  • Most pre-dated him, as @Davefevs puts it: he has simply been "selling the family silver".
  • Now here's the big problem for me. He has spent a majority of that money. And for what?
  • People seem to think if we only spend £1m or £2m a time on players we are saving money.
  • The current squad includes 14 £1m+ signings with a total transfer outlay of over £40m.
  • In the past he signed Engvall, Eliasson, Szmodics, Magnússon, Djuric, Eisa all £1m+ too.
  • He has already made a net loss on the purchase and sale of the second group of players.  
  • Looks likely with current lot too. If Fam walks it's an extra £5m needed just to break even. 
  • His best hope is selling Semenyo but surely it's being bailed out by the family silver again?  

So in effect "making us money" is a myth, his poor recruitment and a lack of RoI is a ticking timebomb.

Of the £75m sold, he's presided over likely loss making spending of more than £50m on other players.

He's totally unaccountable - he gives only rare, deliberately timed, disingenuous interviews full of spin.

And this is to say nothing of the bad things I hear about his actual approach to scouting and player ID.

It has nothing to do with how he speaks, I work in business myself and people like him are ten a penny.

But at £500k pa he's robbing a living and will hide behind the young coach again when it all goes bad.

Did that help? By the way, hate is a strong word. I think resent is better.

Great summary Ole. Now, Nakhi Wells............?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Olé said:

Oh go on then, I'll have a go too. And in the words of the great man himself, let me be really clear (Geoff).

It comes down to something very simple - Return on Investment (RoI) - language SL should understand.

  • He's sold 7 players for £75m and everyone applauds and thinks what a great businessman. 
  • But at most he recruited 2 of them (Webster, Brownhill) although JB was well known to LJ.
  • Most pre-dated him, as @Davefevs puts it: he has simply been "selling the family silver".
  • Now here's the big problem for me. He has spent a majority of that money. And for what?
  • People seem to think if we only spend £1m or £2m a time on players we are saving money.
  • The current squad includes 14 £1m+ signings with a total transfer outlay of over £40m.
  • In the past he signed Engvall, Eliasson, Szmodics, Magnússon, Djuric, Eisa all £1m+ too.
  • He has already made a net loss on the purchase and sale of the second group of players.  
  • Looks likely with current lot too. If Fam walks it's an extra £5m needed just to break even. 
  • His best hope is selling Semenyo but surely it's being bailed out by the family silver again?  

So in effect "making us money" is a myth, his poor recruitment and a lack of RoI is a ticking timebomb.

Of the £75m sold, he's presided over likely loss making spending of more than £50m on other players.

He's totally unaccountable - he gives only rare, deliberately timed, disingenuous interviews full of spin.

And this is to say nothing of the bad things I hear about his actual approach to scouting and player ID.

It has nothing to do with how he speaks, I work in business myself and people like him are ten a penny.

But at £500k pa he's robbing a living and will hide behind the young coach again when it all goes bad.

Did that help? By the way, hate is a strong word. I think resent is better.

You absolutely nailed that @Olé!

Great to see some facts to back up the emotional feeling many of us have towards Ashton. 

For me unless he goes then sacking Holden will be futile as he will only be replaced with another clone; and we’ll go round again....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Furious Custard said:

It has always been clear that Dean requested kieth and Paul as part of his setup when he interviewed for the job. Look at the interviews with Dean and Mark from when he was appointed full time. 

I'll be honest but I'm  ot 100% on Rolls but based on the fact that all the other staff and team appointments have been given the final say by the manager.

Rolls is a Mark Ashton appointment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It can surely come as no surprise that Ashton is bearing the brunt. Who would you blame, the lovely bloke looking himself in the mirror, doing his best with a long injury list, or the cold-blooded businessman who {apparently} signed off his appointment and fails to provide for the innocent fall guy below him?

Lets just be clear, I’m not going to say that Ashton is fantastic value for money and i’ll defend him against anyone who says otherwise, but it’s all a bit trendy for me. A bit forced clever. We’ve been absolutely dire for large parts of this season and I refuse to accept that Ashton is to blame for that (and yes, in turn, that means I disagree that recruitment hasn’t been good enough).

I don’t know, maybe he’s lying, that’s hardly inconceivable, but we were told the manager has the last word on recruitment. If that’s true, and for one second let’s just entertain the idea that everything Ashton says isn't a lie, that he isn’t fiddling your grandparents savings accounts, that he isn’t puncturing kids footballs that come over his fence, why is the HC/Manager absolved in regard to recruitment?

I have no idea, I’m not ITK and willing to be told otherwise, but I believe we have put together a squad, with the right instruction, capable of challenging for the play-offs. Let’s be fair, that’s the very best we can hope for right now.

I also find it slightly strange that people criticise him for selling what was already at his disposal. By that logic, if we sell Dasilva, Massengo, Palmer, O’Dowda etc for a healthy profit at a later date, potentially after Ashton has left the club, is all forgiven?

Who on here would honestly say, with the right coaching, we shouldn’t be making healthy profits on those clearly talented young players.

Bentley, Mawson, Kalas, Dasilva, Massengo, Williams, Palmer, Martin, Weimann, Diedhiou, Wells. Those are good players. And there are more. Let’s not forget we’re Bristol City. It wasn’t long ago that England U21 internationals or established Championship strikers signing permanently was fantasy land.

I’m not trying to provide some impassioned defence of Ashton, if his presence is a hindrance to the appointment of a top coach then he’s the problem, no doubt. But I continue to struggle with believing, with his head on the block, he championed the Holden appointment, and how many of us have told our employers we’re worth less than what they’re offering us.

Finally, whilst I clearly haven’t broken down every public speaking he’s done on Bristol City, it feels a bit damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. He spoke in January, didn’t he? When people were demanding he did. And what happened. It infuriated people and he was labelled a liar.

Bottom line is id rather have a quality manager/HC here than Ashton, that’s a no-brainier. But the criticism of him all feels very contrived at a time when the HC/coaches, who he may or may not have signed off, are so clearly underperforming on the pitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This.

Is he a great negotiator?  Got good money for players sold, undoubtedly.  I could be facetious and say it’s in an inflationary market, but that’s terse.  But I’d say he’s paid over the odds on players inbound too....so is a great negotiator or some someone who has been around in boom time and rode that period out?

A bit of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other possibly.

He’s been unable to get our good players to stay here too.

He’s not as highly regarded as he’d like to make out.

 

 

But @shelts, I don’t think he’s the single point of blame (even if he’s cleverly positioned himself in a role  in the club to put his “cock on the block”), there are failings all over.  SL, JL, LJ and now DH....although you could argue that he’s paying in some part for the ineptness of the past couple of years.  DH hasn’t helped himself in the past three months in highlighting his own inexperience.

It’s undoubtedly the case that we’ve done better with out-going transfers during Ashton’s time than we did before. How many times in the past have we sold at the worst point in time, or allowed contracts to run down. 
 

Im not sure how much that’s down to Ashton’s negotiating skill and how much that’s down to a strategic decision that we sell our best players. Which, of course, explains why he can’t get our best players to stay. Which of course impacts on performance: where would be now had we kept Webster, Kelly, Kodjia, Brownhill etc?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, S_C said:

It can surely come as no surprise that Ashton is bearing the brunt. Who would you blame, the lovely bloke looking himself in the mirror, doing his best with a long injury list, or the cold-blooded businessman who {apparently} signed off his appointment and fails to provide for the innocent fall guy below him?

Lets just be clear, I’m not going to say that Ashton is fantastic value for money and i’ll defend him against anyone who says otherwise, but it’s all a bit trendy for me. A bit forced clever. We’ve been absolutely dire for large parts of this season and I refuse to accept that Ashton is to blame for that (and yes, in turn, that means I disagree that recruitment hasn’t been good enough).

I don’t know, maybe he’s lying, that’s hardly inconceivable, but we were told the manager has the last word on recruitment. If that’s true, and for one second let’s just entertain the idea that everything Ashton says isn't a lie, that he isn’t fiddling your grandparents savings accounts, that he isn’t puncturing kids footballs that come over his fence, why is the HC/Manager absolved in regard to recruitment?

I have no idea, I’m not ITK and willing to be told otherwise, but I believe we have put together a squad, with the right instruction, capable of challenging for the play-offs. Let’s be fair, that’s the very best we can hope for right now.

I also find it slightly strange that people criticise him for selling what was already at his disposal. By that logic, if we sell Dasilva, Massengo, Palmer, O’Dowda etc for a healthy profit at a later date, potentially after Ashton has left the club, is all forgiven?

Who on here would honestly say, with the right coaching, we shouldn’t be making healthy profits on those clearly talented young players.

Bentley, Mawson, Kalas, Dasilva, Massengo, Williams, Palmer, Martin, Weimann, Diedhiou, Wells. Those are good players. And there are more. Let’s not forget we’re Bristol City. It wasn’t long ago that England U21 internationals or established Championship strikers signing permanently was fantasy land.

I’m not trying to provide some impassioned defence of Ashton, if his presence is a hindrance to the appointment of a top coach then he’s the problem, no doubt. But I continue to struggle with believing, with his head on the block, he championed the Holden appointment, and how many of us have told our employers we’re worth less than what they’re offering us.

Finally, whilst I clearly haven’t broken down every public speaking he’s done on Bristol City, it feels a bit damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. He spoke in January, didn’t he? When people were demanding he did. And what happened. It infuriated people and he was labelled a liar.

Bottom line is id rather have a quality manager/HC here than Ashton, that’s a no-brainier. But the criticism of him all feels very contrived at a time when the HC/coaches, who he may or may not have signed off, are so clearly underperforming on the pitch.

Somebody signed off Dean Holden's appointment unless he held them all up at gunpoint. It can only possibly be two people, the CEO or the Owner or a combination of the two. In my experience CEO's when ordered by Owners to make decisions that they know in their own minds are nonsensical/bat shit crazy and will unravel big time invariably jump before they are pushed and their reputation suffers (the Owners never sack themselves do they?). If the genuine situation here is that Dean Holden is a 100% Steve Lansdown ordered appointment then the club is paying £500K plus per year for a nodding dog to be in charge of it........and I would question what Mark Ashton is doing in the role anyway except lining his pockets.

It's all well and good (and easy too, avoiding awkward criticism of a generous but massively under-performing Owner) to pin the whole blame on the Head Coach for the shit show that this season is quickly unravelling into but this appointment was such a potential accident so obviously waiting to happen it was held up in the brightest of flashing lights, it was multi-coloured sized 10000 font, it had deafening air raid sirens accompanying it etc. etc. The appointment was such an obvious gamble, seen by everyone who was not blind, that the only logical outcome is to go above the failing coach and hold the people who made the ill thought through appointment responsible now it has almost inevitably, I'm sad to say, started to unravel. It can only be two people or one of two people who are responsible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Monday morning after a string of dreadful performances and the more recent disaster at Watford still hurting.....I recon there are some in-depth and heated discussions going on behind closed doors at AG right now.

Hopefully it involves how we can move forward and I can't think that that cannot include getting rid of selected personnel.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Somebody signed off Dean Holden's appointment unless he held them all up at gunpoint. It can only possibly be two people, the CEO or the Owner or a combination of the two. In my experience CEO's when ordered by Owners to make decisions that they know in their own minds are nonsensical/bat shit crazy and will unravel big time invariably jump before they are pushed and their reputation suffers (the Owners never sack themselves do they?). If the genuine situation here is that Dean Holden is a 100% Steve Lansdown ordered appointment then the club is paying £500K plus per year for a nodding dog to be in charge of it........and I would question what Mark Ashton is doing in the role anyway except lining his pockets.

It's all well and good (and easy too, avoiding awkward criticism of a generous but massively under-performing Owner) to pin the whole blame on the Head Coach for the shit show that this season is quickly unravelling into but this appointment was such a potential accident so obviously waiting to happen it was held up in the brightest of flashing lights, it was multi-coloured sized 10000 font, it had deafening air raid sirens accompanying it etc. etc. The appointment was such an obvious gamble, seen by everyone who was not blind, that the only logical outcome is to go above the failing coach and hold the people who made the ill thought through appointment responsible now it has almost inevitably, I'm sad to say, started to unravel. It can only be two people or one of two people who are responsible.

Yeah, agree with all of this.

Only thing I’d say is that it must be hard to walk away from a very well paid job IF your boss has said ‘this one’s on me’.

As said I’m not ITK, but thought occurs that both Tinnion and Millen were appointed before Ashton was here. Not sure if they were directly Lansdown appointments (?) but I still have ‘Judge me on Brian’ ringing in my ears.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Furious Custard said:

If he is fair enough. Should MA walk for appointing medical staff ? I have yet to be convinced on anything else that has been said against him. 

The disastrous medical appointment of someone who is failing at his third consecutive club (where was the most basic of due diligence?) together with the managerial appointment that literally everyone bar a few one eyed supporters could see was a monumental gamble that he either made or has accepted like a nodding dog and which unfortunately is now unravelling would be enough in many "ordinary" businesses for Shareholders to ask "what is this guy doing taking over £500K per year out of our company?".

I get it though, this is football where the Owners these days can smugly claim 100% total ownership of the club regardless of the fact that's it's a massive community asset that has been going for donkeys years before they arrived on the scene, everyone is eternally grateful to them for the investment regardless of performance and blows smoke up their arses and therefore said owners are allowed to be completely and utterly mental in decision making and get away with it because they put in the most money. Happening up and down the country at various clubs including the Horfield North Siders FC. Just call it Steve Lansdown FC and be done with it?

I said all along that I wanted Dean Holden to succeed but given the obvious issues in appointing him if it all went belly up there would only be three people that I would be pointing the finger at. Now it's all unravelling I'm being consistent. Lansdown, Ashton, Lansdown - that's where the accountability lies in my view.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, italian dave said:

It’s undoubtedly the case that we’ve done better with out-going transfers during Ashton’s time than we did before. How many times in the past have we sold at the worst point in time, or allowed contracts to run down
 

?? The irony

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Olé said:

Oh go on then, I'll have a go too. And in the words of the great man himself, let me be really clear (Geoff).

It comes down to something very simple - Return on Investment (RoI) - language SL should understand.

  • He's sold 7 players for £75m and everyone applauds and thinks what a great businessman. 
  • But at most he recruited 2 of them (Webster, Brownhill) although JB was well known to LJ.
  • Most pre-dated him, as @Davefevs puts it: he has simply been "selling the family silver".
  • Now here's the big problem for me. He has spent a majority of that money. And for what?
  • People seem to think if we only spend £1m or £2m a time on players we are saving money.
  • The current squad includes 14 £1m+ signings with a total transfer outlay of over £40m.
  • In the past he signed Engvall, Eliasson, Szmodics, Magnússon, Djuric, Eisa all £1m+ too.
  • He has already made a net loss on the purchase and sale of the second group of players.  
  • Looks likely with current lot too. If Fam walks it's an extra £5m needed just to break even. 
  • His best hope is selling Semenyo but surely it's being bailed out by the family silver again?  

So in effect "making us money" is a myth, his poor recruitment and a lack of RoI is a ticking timebomb.

Of the £75m sold, he's presided over likely loss making spending of more than £50m on other players.

He's totally unaccountable - he gives only rare, deliberately timed, disingenuous interviews full of spin.

And this is to say nothing of the bad things I hear about his actual approach to scouting and player ID.

It has nothing to do with how he speaks, I work in business myself and people like him are ten a penny.

But at £500k pa he's robbing a living and will hide behind the young coach again when it all goes bad.

Did that help? By the way, hate is a strong word. I think resent is better.

great post ole backed up well, just cant stand him, to smug for my liking and never gives solid answers, and like some ceo i have work for go's into hiding when times get tough comes out of hiding when times are good to try and take the credit.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, tin said:

Sacked Cotts and broke up his double-winning team.

Assembled a failing recruitment team partially using his own business, with a family member heading it up and the best they can come up with is ageing journeymen.

Appointed his mates to head up the medical department, who’ve overseen our worst run of injuries — not just this year, last year too. 

Most importantly, IMO, he’s been proven to be completely full of shit. Keen to take credit when it’s going well, throws everyone under the bus when the wheels come falling off. 

I don’t care what he earns if he’s doing his job well, but he isn’t and is mugging SL blind IMO.

Spot on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

?? The irony

 

Indeed! That, plus the fact that it's hard to see where the next big money sale comes from. Kalas - but we paid a lot for him.

Both are symptomatic of the fact that the strategy seems to have come off the rails. That's probably no one persons fault. And it's probably got an element of luck in it, as often in football. But nevertheless the buck stops at the top, and that's Ashton as CEO. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Olé said:

Oh go on then, I'll have a go too. And in the words of the great man himself, let me be really clear (Geoff).

It comes down to something very simple - Return on Investment (RoI) - language SL should understand.

  • He's sold 7 players for £75m and everyone applauds and thinks what a great businessman. 
  • But at most he recruited 2 of them (Webster, Brownhill) although JB was well known to LJ.
  • Most pre-dated him, as @Davefevs puts it: he has simply been "selling the family silver".
  • Now here's the big problem for me. He has spent a majority of that money. And for what?
  • People seem to think if we only spend £1m or £2m a time on players we are saving money.
  • The current squad includes 14 £1m+ signings with a total transfer outlay of over £40m.
  • In the past he signed Engvall, Eliasson, Szmodics, Magnússon, Djuric, Eisa all £1m+ too.
  • He has already made a net loss on the purchase and sale of the second group of players.  
  • Looks likely with current lot too. If Fam walks it's an extra £5m needed just to break even. 
  • His best hope is selling Semenyo but surely it's being bailed out by the family silver again?  

So in effect "making us money" is a myth, his poor recruitment and a lack of RoI is a ticking timebomb.

Of the £75m sold, he's presided over likely loss making spending of more than £50m on other players.

He's totally unaccountable - he gives only rare, deliberately timed, disingenuous interviews full of spin.

And this is to say nothing of the bad things I hear about his actual approach to scouting and player ID.

It has nothing to do with how he speaks, I work in business myself and people like him are ten a penny.

But at £500k pa he's robbing a living and will hide behind the young coach again when it all goes bad.

Did that help? By the way, hate is a strong word. I think resent is better.

Great post with FACTS.  He is killing the club. FAST.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, S_C said:

It can surely come as no surprise that Ashton is bearing the brunt. Who would you blame, the lovely bloke looking himself in the mirror, doing his best with a long injury list, or the cold-blooded businessman who {apparently} signed off his appointment and fails to provide for the innocent fall guy below him?

As per my DM, having been impressed with Holden in his caretaker spell, and early weeks of this season, not just because of results, but philosophy / apparent philosophy, he has unfortunately showed his inexperience increasingly over the last few months.  Injuries are a mitigation, but not a full mitigation, and therefore he is to blame also.

I think there are a lot of posters and tweeters who are laying blame with Dean, but equally see a bigger problem higher up....and solving the head-coach issue just kicks the can down the road.  As I said in my DM, I blame LJ too, hence, MA replacing LJ with DH hasn’t arrested the slide that started at least 2 years ago.

Lets just be clear, I’m not going to say that Ashton is fantastic value for money and i’ll defend him against anyone who says otherwise, but it’s all a bit trendy for me. A bit forced clever. We’ve been absolutely dire for large parts of this season and I refuse to accept that Ashton is to blame for that (and yes, in turn, that means I disagree that recruitment hasn’t been good enough).

See comments above, but the crux is in the next bit. ⬇️⬇️⬇️

I don’t know, maybe he’s lying, that’s hardly inconceivable, but we were told the manager has the last word on recruitment.

I don’t disagree, I think LJ and DH had / have final say, the problem for me is the plan for each signing, adherence to a strategy?  That has become non-existent.  Mixed recruitment, scattergun recruitment, clubs in the bag recruitment, that’s me being nice....because I actually think it’s been sub-standard.  @Olégives the financials behind it above, but you’ve seen my list of 68 signings.  The CEO has allowed whimsical recruit and in some cases signings like Palmer massaged both LJ and MA’s egos.  I couldn’t get you Nketiah, because Arsenal are back-stabbers, which wasn’t my fault, but look at the wonderful relationship I have with Chelsea.

If that’s true, and for one second let’s just entertain the idea that everything Ashton says isn't a lie, that he isn’t fiddling your grandparents savings accounts, that he isn’t puncturing kids footballs that come over his fence, why is the HC/Manager absolved in regard to recruitment?

As above, they aren’t....been a big criticism that both CEO and Head-Coach are “in it” together, and share blame (50:50 I don’t know, I don’t care really, both to blame).

If the CEO is justifying his salary to SL based on selling young players, who’ve developed here, at a profit, why is he allowing the head-coach to buy players that don’t allow him to achieve that “personal objective”?  That’s where a “football-man” in a Head of Recruitment/DoF role stops willy-nilly recruitment.  The number of 30(ish) / 30+ permanent signings of late is not the strategy.

I have no idea, I’m not ITK and willing to be told otherwise, but I believe we have put together a squad, with the right instruction, capable of challenging for the play-offs. Let’s be fair, that’s the very best we can hope for right now.

I personally think we have a group of decent individuals, but only a small core fit the 352 system deployed early season.  As soon as we picked up injuries, the replacements, decent enough Champ players (in the main) weren’t capable of executing 352....and then we see that the unbalanced squad of decent players isn’t fit for 433 or 442.

I’ve had many a discussions with @Sheltons Armyabout 352.  I like the system a lot, but the one thing I come back to is that it’s a “bastard” to recruit to.  I think I’ve used the term “if you’re going 352, you’re going all-in on it”, because to move away from it is really difficult.  Dean is finding out the hard way.  If I can see this, I’m sure of DoF can.  It’s no different from LJ, who I’m sure came up with great ideas on the training ground but needed a Don Howe-type alongside him to say “that’s great Lee, it is genius on the training ground, but it’ll come unstuck in a real match after 5 mins”, e.g. the 4222 v West Brom, ok that took 30 mins to be sussed...it win us the game.

What I’m saying is you need skilled football men stopping the head-coach going off-piste unchallenged.  I’m sure Holden expected Simpson and Downing to provide that.

I also find it slightly strange that people criticise him for selling what was already at his disposal. By that logic, if we sell Dasilva, Massengo, Palmer, O’Dowda etc for a healthy profit at a later date, potentially after Ashton has left the club, is all forgiven?

Before the pandemic, I don’t think you’d get a healthy profit on any of that list of 4 bar Dasilva in the short term, which is what’s needed to cover a £30m deficit each season.  Massengo in time, the other two, nah, can’t see it.  As it stands, there are question marks over any profit, with Dasilva’s injury.

Who on here would honestly say, with the right coaching, we shouldn’t be making healthy profits on those clearly talented young players.

Good coaching has to in turn result in performances on the pitch.  Until I see a system that fits these players I have my doubts, but I’m on a downer at the mo’.

Bentley, Mawson, Kalas, Dasilva, Massengo, Williams, Palmer, Martin, Weimann, Diedhiou, Wells. Those are good players. And there are more. Let’s not forget we’re Bristol City. It wasn’t long ago that England U21 internationals or established Championship strikers signing permanently was fantasy land.

As a list of individuals, it’s great.  The strength is melding them into a team.

I’m not trying to provide some impassioned defence of Ashton, if his presence is a hindrance to the appointment of a top coach then he’s the problem, no doubt. But I continue to struggle with believing, with his head on the block, he championed the Holden appointment, and how many of us have told our employers we’re worth less than what they’re offering us.

It appears from his recent 20Man interview that he confirmed the structure constrains who will come here.  So how did Hughton and (I assume Cook) get through several “interviews” without establishing whether they’d work under this structure.  Poor interviewing leads to not finding that out.  Did they do a Mrs Doyle from Father Ted, and keeping saying “Go on, go on, go on, go on” thinking they’d be ground down?

Finally, whilst I clearly haven’t broken down every public speaking he’s done on Bristol City, it feels a bit damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. He spoke in January, didn’t he? When people were demanding he did. And what happened. It infuriated people and he was labelled a liar.

A cynic might suggest he brought forward the original planned interview for post-window, because he knew what a cluster#### he was making of the window, and he could spin a better interview doing it a week earlier whilst the fans saw hope.

Bottom line is id rather have a quality manager/HC here than Ashton, that’s a no-brainier. But the criticism of him all feels very contrived at a time when the HC/coaches, who he may or may not have signed off, are so clearly underperforming on the pitch.

I think the key to all of this is looking at whether posters / tweeters are only blaming Ashton, or where like me (and many others) they are blaming both. 

I’m guessing by your initials and the use of a certain word, you are the person I DMd on twitter last night. ???

Some further comments above ⬆️⬆️⬆️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Judging by JL and MA's interviews at the Holden appointment presser, I think it's a fair assumption that both preferred a different candidate. 

Only Steve Lansdown gave an impassioned defence of the appointment. 

It's clear as day that he still calls the shots on the big decisions.

I vaguely remember that when Cotts was appointed, SL did NOT want him.  I can't remember the person he wanted.

But the person on the board that pressed for Cotts is no longer at the club.  Which may (or may not) be telling?

For all the good that can be credited to SL, I do not think that his strong suit is appointing managers.  But the sad thing is that he doesn't appear to learn from previous mistakes.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Also the timing of their appointments would indicate they were approached prior to DH taking the role. 

Or it was rushed. Complete guess on my part, could it have been .

established managers turned the job down due to recruitment policy , Ashton interference . 
Asked Holden . He wanted the weekend to think about it. Why ? 
rush to get coaches after he accepted.

Why would Dean need the weekend to think about it if, he’d applied for the job , as we're led to believe . Was the boards no1 choice apparently . Doesn’t make sense .  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...