Mark Ashton

[SecretSam]

16 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I wouldn’t say hated but I do think many are questioning whether the bloke is worth his £0.5m salary. With some justification too.

Thing is, if he's CEO, his remit goes beyond the pitch, surely? Do ee know how he's performing in other areas? SL is not a fool, you don't get that wealthy if you can't identify good people to run a business.

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Thing is, if he's CEO, his remit goes beyond the pitch, surely? Do ee know how he's performing in other areas? SL is not a fool, you don't get that wealthy if you can't identify good people to run a business.

Agreed but at the end of the day it comes back to the "Bristol City Football Club are excellent at everything except Football" statement trotted out by GMcG doesn't it? In terms of remit beyond the pitch he appointed a Performance Manager who has managed to ensure that half of our squad get nowhere near a pitch for months on end. We also have a recruitment strategy that has been ripped up and forgotten about and that started pre-Covid.

The point being he can be fantastic at certain aspects of his job but if the football is rubbish, which it most certainly is, then that is the ultimate business we are in and he either needs to be fired or his job description realigned with the corresponding reduction in salary and a DOF appointed who knows football and can make the necessary adjustments in that part of the operation.

[Banjo Red]

19 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Downing and Simpson smell like Lansdown appointments to me. It's history repeating after he went and got Wigley to assist Millen. 

That was 10 years ago, and here we are watching the same mistake being made. 

Needs to sort out his priorities rugby are ok now back to sorting out your first love.

[SecretSam]

7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Agreed but at the end of the day it comes back to the "Bristol City Football Club are excellent at everything except Football" statement trotted out by GMcG doesn't it? In terms of remit beyond the pitch he appointed a Performance Manager who has managed to ensure that half of our squad get nowhere near a pitch for months on end. We also have a recruitment strategy that has been ripped up and forgotten about and that started pre-Covid.

The point being he can be fantastic at certain aspects of his job but if the football is rubbish, which it most certainly is, then that is the ultimate business we are in and he either needs to be fired or his job description realigned with the corresponding reduction in salary and a DOF appointed who knows football and can make the necessary adjustments in that part of the operation.

OK, I think I didn't word my response correctly: I don't know where Ashton's remit as CEO extends, is it just football matters (top to bottom, including the kids' and ladies' teams?), financial performance (tickets, etc) - in which case it's odd he is in charge of recruitment, in business this would usually be handled below CEO, with the CEO setting the parameters, such as budget, etc.

[shelts]

6 hours ago, Olé said:

Oh go on then, I'll have a go too. And in the words of the great man himself, let me be really clear (Geoff).

It comes down to something very simple - Return on Investment (RoI) - language SL should understand.

• He's sold 7 players for £75m and everyone applauds and thinks what a great businessman. 
• But at most he recruited 2 of them (Webster, Brownhill) although JB was well known to LJ.
• Most pre-dated him, as @Davefevs puts it: he has simply been "selling the family silver".
• Now here's the big problem for me. He has spent a majority of that money. And for what?
• People seem to think if we only spend £1m or £2m a time on players we are saving money.
• The current squad includes 14 £1m+ signings with a total transfer outlay of over £40m.
• In the past he signed Engvall, Eliasson, Szmodics, Magnússon, Djuric, Eisa all £1m+ too.
• He has already made a net loss on the purchase and sale of the second group of players.  
• Looks likely with current lot too. If Fam walks it's an extra £5m needed just to break even. 
• His best hope is selling Semenyo but surely it's being bailed out by the family silver again?  

So in effect "making us money" is a myth, his poor recruitment and a lack of RoI is a ticking timebomb.

Of the £75m sold, he's presided over likely loss making spending of more than £50m on other players.

He's totally unaccountable - he gives only rare, deliberately timed, disingenuous interviews full of spin.

And this is to say nothing of the bad things I hear about his actual approach to scouting and player ID.

It has nothing to do with how he speaks, I work in business myself and people like him are ten a penny.

But at £500k pa he's robbing a living and will hide behind the young coach again when it all goes bad.

Did that help? By the way, hate is a strong word. I think resent is better.

I’m more in the loop now !!

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

OK, I think I didn't word my response correctly: I don't know where Ashton's remit as CEO extends, is it just football matters (top to bottom, including the kids' and ladies' teams?), financial performance (tickets, etc) - in which case it's odd he is in charge of recruitment, in business this would usually be handled below CEO, with the CEO setting the parameters, such as budget, etc.

I think things would be a lot easier to understand if we had a Director of Football in place and Ashton was left to do the things he is good at. However that would mean a huge reduction in salary!!

[shelts]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This.

Is he a great negotiator?  Got good money for players sold, undoubtedly.  I could be facetious and say it’s in an inflationary market, but that’s terse.  But I’d say he’s paid over the odds on players inbound too....so is a great negotiator or some someone who has been around in boom time and rode that period out?

A bit of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other possibly.

He’s been unable to get our good players to stay here too.

He’s not as highly regarded as he’d like to make out.

 

 

But @shelts, I don’t think he’s the single point of blame (even if he’s cleverly positioned himself in a role  in the club to put his “cock on the block”), there are failings all over.  SL, JL, LJ and now DH....although you could argue that he’s paying in some part for the ineptness of the past couple of years.  DH hasn’t helped himself in the past three months in highlighting his own inexperience.

Personally I thought it was Cotts and the double winning side being dismantled . Wasn’t sure he was at the helm when we came back up 

[SecretSam]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

I think things would be a lot easier to understand if we had a Director of Football in place and Ashton was left to do the things he is good at. However that would mean a huge reduction in salary!!

Do the egg-chasers have the same set up? 

Does Ashton negotiate the deals, or is he actively identifying players? The former isn't unusual (Spurs,eg) but the latter is odd. 

[Unan]

 

 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, SecretSam said:

Do the egg-chasers have the same set up? 

Does Ashton negotiate the deals, or is he actively identifying players? The former isn't unusual (Spurs,eg) but the latter is odd. 

Big difference with the Rugby in that the head guy Mark Tainton is an ex Rugby Player (as in proper player with a career not a teenage GK at West Brom then into business) who also is adept at the business side of things. We seem to have a guy who understands the business/administration side but has too much say in something he seems to be not so well versed in (the actual football).........or, alternatively, as others have intimated this is all Steve Lansdown's doing and Mark Ashton is just a very expensive nodding dog who is happy to do his dirty work for him because he pays well?

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I think things would be a lot easier to understand if we had a Director of Football in place and Ashton was left to do the things he is good at. However that would mean a huge reduction in salary!!

Boom  

10 minutes ago, shelts said:

Personally I thought it was Cotts and the double winning side being dismantled . Wasn’t sure he was at the helm when we came back up 

Ashton surfaced unofficially behind the scenes in Dec 2015, officially appointed 2 days after “he” sacked Cotts.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Boom  

Ashton surfaced unofficially behind the scenes in Dec 2015, officially appointed 2 days after “he” sacked Cotts.

This is where conflict of interests come in. The CEO is hardly going to write a Report for the Owner that says:

The CEO is brilliant at his job except the football side of it.

Split the CEO's job and salary into two, offer the current CEO one half of the job and recruit for the other half.

Won't happen.

[soultrader]

9 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

This is where conflict of interests come in. The CEO is hardly going to write a Report for the Owner that says:

The CEO is brilliant at his job except the football side of it.

Split the CEO's job and salary into two, offer the current CEO one half of the job and recruit for the other half.

Won't happen.

I have no insight, but I have assumed that MA does a job as far as contracts/fees go.  With the recent rise in players agents etc, I always assumed it was a good idea to have someone focused on just that.

But if you do that, I think it also makes sense to have a Director of Football (Like a Tinnion but older?).  That would know what the clubs over arching strategey (set by SL) is and can ensure that the academy etc all heading in the same direction.  

That way, you can have a head coach.

[SecretSam]

39 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Big difference with the Rugby in that the head guy Mark Tainton is an ex Rugby Player (as in proper player with a career not a teenage GK at West Brom then into business) who also is adept at the business side of things. We seem to have a guy who understands the business/administration side but has too much say in something he seems to be not so well versed in (the actual football).........or, alternatively, as others have intimated this is all Steve Lansdown's doing and Mark Ashton is just a very expensive nodding dog who is happy to do his dirty work for him because he pays well?

The Tainton situation is more likely in rugby as it used to be amateur, so they all had other jobs. But it's still unusual to have an ex-player who is also a sound business person.

I think some realism is needed as to whether someone can be both CEO and Director of Football. Typically, these are separate roles.

[SE23Red]

3 hours ago, S_C said:

It can surely come as no surprise that Ashton is bearing the brunt. Who would you blame, the lovely bloke looking himself in the mirror, doing his best with a long injury list, or the cold-blooded businessman who {apparently} signed off his appointment and fails to provide for the innocent fall guy below him?

Lets just be clear, I’m not going to say that Ashton is fantastic value for money and i’ll defend him against anyone who says otherwise, but it’s all a bit trendy for me. A bit forced clever. We’ve been absolutely dire for large parts of this season and I refuse to accept that Ashton is to blame for that (and yes, in turn, that means I disagree that recruitment hasn’t been good enough).

I don’t know, maybe he’s lying, that’s hardly inconceivable, but we were told the manager has the last word on recruitment. If that’s true, and for one second let’s just entertain the idea that everything Ashton says isn't a lie, that he isn’t fiddling your grandparents savings accounts, that he isn’t puncturing kids footballs that come over his fence, why is the HC/Manager absolved in regard to recruitment?

I have no idea, I’m not ITK and willing to be told otherwise, but I believe we have put together a squad, with the right instruction, capable of challenging for the play-offs. Let’s be fair, that’s the very best we can hope for right now.

I also find it slightly strange that people criticise him for selling what was already at his disposal. By that logic, if we sell Dasilva, Massengo, Palmer, O’Dowda etc for a healthy profit at a later date, potentially after Ashton has left the club, is all forgiven?

Who on here would honestly say, with the right coaching, we shouldn’t be making healthy profits on those clearly talented young players.

Bentley, Mawson, Kalas, Dasilva, Massengo, Williams, Palmer, Martin, Weimann, Diedhiou, Wells. Those are good players. And there are more. Let’s not forget we’re Bristol City. It wasn’t long ago that England U21 internationals or established Championship strikers signing permanently was fantasy land.

I’m not trying to provide some impassioned defence of Ashton, if his presence is a hindrance to the appointment of a top coach then he’s the problem, no doubt. But I continue to struggle with believing, with his head on the block, he championed the Holden appointment, and how many of us have told our employers we’re worth less than what they’re offering us.

Finally, whilst I clearly haven’t broken down every public speaking he’s done on Bristol City, it feels a bit damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. He spoke in January, didn’t he? When people were demanding he did. And what happened. It infuriated people and he was labelled a liar.

Bottom line is id rather have a quality manager/HC here than Ashton, that’s a no-brainier. But the criticism of him all feels very contrived at a time when the HC/coaches, who he may or may not have signed off, are so clearly underperforming on the pitch.

When I started watching football things were simpler. If all wasn't going well, as a fan you had an opinion about the players at fault, or called for the manager to be sacked. Or called for 'the board' to go. 1000s would gather outside the Williams and berate those in the boardroom above.

In 2021 do fans have to first fully understand the corporate structure and exactly who does what to be entitled to form a valid opinion? No.

So I fully accept my understanding might not be perfect, but here is one fan's opinion...

We have appointed a manager with no background to support his promotion to the role. I've seen nothing in his nearly one year in the role to suggest his appointment was correct.

The last 3 transfer windows have not improved our fortunes on the pitch, nor my perception of the quality of our squad. Your list of players were largely recruited before this period. Those signed in the last 18 months have shown nothing on the pitch to justify inclusion on a list of good signings.

The number of players we have out of contract at the end of this season puts a lot of pressure on the upcoming window. Much work will need to be done just to stand still.

Mark Ashton is the CEO accountable for the football club during this period.

We then get to the 'is he really accountable?' question. I don't think either answer really supports his case. Either as CEO he is held accountable and in which case he has failed. Or he isn't accountable, which is even more damning. If the owner appointed DH, and player recruitment has been down to the manager(s) then what is MA doing at the club? This is where his salary does become an issue. Put in context...season ticket sales will be down next season; do we want the first 1000 sales funding the salary of the person who facilitates the Zoom call between SL and DH?

[Redrascal2]

17 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Yes, Steve has the final say BUT you don’t pay someone over £500,000 (think about that) per year to have to go over his head and make all the decisions yourself. This guy is supposed to be able to run a football club and @Davefevshas demonstrated that equivalent CEO’s are on either less money or pro rata less than this guy based on club turnover and many of us know that outside football he would be earning about £150k a year less to run a similar sized business. What is he bringing to the party to justify his wedge?

What’s your justification  for the appointment of Andy Rolls who has a proven and undeniable track record of leaving clubs absolutely decimated by injuries? He comes here and guess what? Is that Steve’s call too?

Its a fact of life that when you take the big cash you have to be held to a much higher standard of accountability than someone on an average wage. It’s obvious why that is the case.

Whilst the football club is Steve’s club, that has been made clear, there are tens of thousands of people who make a small cash investment annually together with a massive emotional investment and those people are entitled to question if people literally setting themselves up for life on the back of the club are doing the job expected of them. Take the money, deal with the flak. That’s life.

Why has Steve left him in the job then. Where I worked people who did not do their job got the boot. 

[Simon Wheeler]

Really think its easier to list what there is to LIKE about Mark Ashton ............................................................................................................... ill have to get back to you.

[Superjack]

4 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Somebody signed off Dean Holden's appointment unless he held them all up at gunpoint. It can only possibly be two people, the CEO or the Owner or a combination of the two. In my experience CEO's when ordered by Owners to make decisions that they know in their own minds are nonsensical/bat shit crazy and will unravel big time invariably jump before they are pushed and their reputation suffers (the Owners never sack themselves do they?). If the genuine situation here is that Dean Holden is a 100% Steve Lansdown ordered appointment then the club is paying £500K plus per year for a nodding dog to be in charge of it........and I would question what Mark Ashton is doing in the role anyway except lining his pockets.

It's all well and good (and easy too, avoiding awkward criticism of a generous but massively under-performing Owner) to pin the whole blame on the Head Coach for the shit show that this season is quickly unravelling into but this appointment was such a potential accident so obviously waiting to happen it was held up in the brightest of flashing lights, it was multi-coloured sized 10000 font, it had deafening air raid sirens accompanying it etc. etc. The appointment was such an obvious gamble, seen by everyone who was not blind, that the only logical outcome is to go above the failing coach and hold the people who made the ill thought through appointment responsible now it has almost inevitably, I'm sad to say, started to unravel. It can only be two people or one of two people who are responsible.

Yup. That's about it.

[Bazooka Joe]

Ashton Gate Eight - players who sacrificed so much to save our club - forever in our hearts.

These were noble, honourable men who gave on, and then off the field. Legends.

Contrast this with Mark Ashton who seems to be nothing more than take, take, take.

During his tenure he has transformed Ashton Gate in Ashton Hate.

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Redrascal2 said:

Why has Steve left him in the job then. Where I worked people who did not do their job got the boot. 

Correct. Everywhere bar Bristol City FC a level of performance that we’ve put forward against the set objectives would simply not be tolerated. Why does Steve tolerate that? Either he thinks the objectives are being met or near as damn it in which case I have to question whether we will do anything of note with this owner in charge or he doesn’t really care right now that objectives aren’t being met or as a few have suggested Teflon is no more than a very highly paid henchman for the owner.....all comes back to a similar conclusion of the owner though when you think about it.

Whoever is correct I cannot accept that Dean Holden is the ONLY person holding the club back and simply by replacing him everyone can sit back and watch us fly. Not having that for one minute.

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, soultrader said:

I have no insight, but I have assumed that MA does a job as far as contracts/fees go.  With the recent rise in players agents etc, I always assumed it was a good idea to have someone focused on just that.

But if you do that, I think it also makes sense to have a Director of Football (Like a Tinnion but older?).  That would know what the clubs over arching strategey (set by SL) is and can ensure that the academy etc all heading in the same direction.  

That way, you can have a head coach.

But to get what you outline from where we are we need a Turkey to vote for Christmas right now!!

[AshtonRobin21]

Mark Ashton has alot to answer for:

- Tore apart the squad from the double winning promotion season. Ayling, Flint, Williams, Bryan, Cunningham, Smith, Pack, Freeman (Sheff United,on loan at Forest ) are all player for team's above us, Plus Bobby who was out on loan that season. 

- Key players contracts running down year after year. Reid, Bryan, Brownhill, Eliasson, Fam to name a few. 

- Extremely high turnover over players each year. 

- Sold homegrown talent for high fees (granted). However, what value do we have left after the re-investment of that money? Next to nothing. Academy products Bryan £6m, Reid £10m, Kelly £15m+. Then add in the sale of Webster for £20m+. That money should have been reinvested in talent where the value would remain within the playing squad. Yet, I see minimal assets within the squad. Ashton's strength is his ability to sell for high prices, but he doesn't possess the same ability when signing players. 

Off the field we may seem like a well run club. The stadium and the training facilities are great, and will be an attraction for the ckub. However, the fact is that on the pitch (where it really counts) we are a million miles away. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

Mark Ashton has alot to answer for:

- Tore apart the squad from the double winning promotion season. Ayling, Flint, Williams, Bryan, Cunningham, Smith, Pack, Freeman (Sheff United,on loan at Forest ) are all player for team's above us, Plus Bobby who was out on loan that season. 

- Key players contracts running down year after year. Reid, Bryan, Brownhill, Eliasson, Fam to name a few. 

- Extremely high turnover over players each year. 

- Sold homegrown talent for high fees (granted). However, what value do we have left after the re-investment of that money? Next to nothing. Academy products Bryan £6m, Reid £10m, Kelly £15m+. Then add in the sale of Webster for £20m+. That money should have been reinvested in talent where the value would remain within the playing squad. Yet, I see minimal assets within the squad. Ashton's strength is his ability to sell for high prices, but he doesn't possess the same ability when signing players. 

Off the field we may seem like a well run club. The stadium and the training facilities are great, and will be an attraction for the ckub. However, the fact is that on the pitch (where it really counts) we are a million miles away. 

Cunningham was sold before Ashton arrived in fairness, by Cotts....emergence of Bryan hastened that.

[AshtonRobin21]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Cunningham was sold before Ashton arrived in fairness, by Cotts....emergence of Bryan hastened that.

My mistake, although he wasn't necessarily a key player for us anyway. As you say Bryan cemented his place.

Regardless, the rest of the players on that list are now outperforming us as a club. 

 

[Sir Geoff]

I may be wrong but I thought in the recent 20man interview that MA said that Downing and Simpson were presented to DH after he accepted the job. They were not Holdens appointments. In fact Holden said he only met one of them (can't remember which one) for the first time after accepting the job.

[The Bard]

4 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

I may be wrong but I thought in the recent 20man interview that MA said that Downing and Simpson were presented to DH after he accepted the job. They were not Holdens appointments. In fact Holden said he only met one of them (can't remember which one) for the first time after accepting the job.

If this is the case then the bloke was doomed to fail. Having a couple of elder coaches foisted on him probably with a remit from Ashton or SL before they've even spoken to Holden was a recipe for disaster.  

[Superjack]

Where is the p**** anyway? Isn't part of his 500k a year remit to explain why and how we are a ****ing disaster?

If he WAS shown the door, we probably wouldn't realise for six months.

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

I may be wrong but I thought in the recent 20man interview that MA said that Downing and Simpson were presented to DH after he accepted the job. They were not Holdens appointments. In fact Holden said he only met one of them (can't remember which one) for the first time after accepting the job.

He’d not met Downing before.  Simpson was his manager when he played at Shrewsbury. Simpson did say in one interview that he got a call from Dean about coming onboard.

What we don’t know and will ever know whether the initial approach was with Ashton, e.g. Are you interested?  Ok, I’ll get Dean to have a hat with you.

[shelts]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Boom  

Ashton surfaced unofficially behind the scenes in Dec 2015, officially appointed 2 days after “he” sacked Cotts.

I think what u z is what I was trying to get at . 

[cidercity1987]

Just bumping this to the top.

This guy is the problem at BCFC, not Holden who is just a patsy and not Lansdown who does his best