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Reading (H) - Tues 16th Feb 19:45 - Matchday thread


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Dear fellow LESSER HUMANS I am delighted to inform you that GREAT HUMAN Dean Holden has DEMANDED a reaction. This LESSER HUMAN wonders why he didn't demand we play well in the last game. GREAT HUMANS must be beyond my simple understanding.

Whenever a manager comes out and demands a reaction or a result, if it doesn't happen, they basically get fired. Even if they stall it for a game and get a scrappy draw, lose the next one and you're gone. Say a team went away and got hit for 6, then had a 0-0, then lost the next one at home... that's the last three games for Paul Tisdale.

Lucky for us, just like Watford, Reading haven't won in three.

https://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/reading-manager-paunovic-reaction-millwall-19829829

They're also looking to stop the bleeding, are working on defensive fundamentals, etc etc. Even more than usual, even in a first goal wins league and season, it feels like a first goal wins game. Or we handshake a draw and both managers can sell the upturn in results!

I put the last question on the poll because I'm interested where people are with actively wanting the team to lose so that changes happen. I think some people mistake that for not supporting the team, but it's really about wanting the team to be better long term. If a loss today guaranteed firings, would you want that? Or do you always want the team to win no matter what? Or are you staring at your betting slip these days? Or have you completely lost interest? Perhaps you don't care about the result because it's always a great time to watch city and be alive! If so, please tell me what medication you're on, thanks...

Early thread today as I'm busy most of it, however I'll post both line ups in a single post when they hit twitter. 

May the GREAT HUMAN bring you joy this day!

COYR

Edited by Prinny
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God I feel bad picking the “no” option on the last question, but it’s for the greater good (“greater good!”). 

I should never want us to lose, but then as a supporter I should never have to be in this position. I wonder how much time and progress we lose owing to SL’s procrastination?

While the game is on I shall be watching the Queens Gambit. Wholly recommended to anyone who’s not yet watched it. 

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Well the players have shown time and time again this season that they can respond.  Like ummm that great 1-0 win away at Cardiff and the time we held on to somehow beat Huddersfield.  Really exciting positive times.  They're a good group of lads and will have had a good honest look at themselves in the mirror the last couple of years and can't wait to get back out there and show what they're about.  They haven't become bad players over the last 3 years and if you can't get up for a game against your local(ish) rivals then something is wrong..

Edited by Roe
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Same answer as always for me - I want us to win, I always want us to win and I’d be delighted if Holden won tonight and then went on a rampage of front foot attacking football.

I’d also like to win the lottery, and have a five foot penis. That’s also not happening.

Cant foresee anything other than another defeat - maybe scoring one goal to give us something to build on. If we do lose, hopefully it’s the end.

The best result may be an abject performance scraping a draw, and Holden still getting the bullet.

Still, at least I’ve got a beautiful wife at home who got me a lovely valentines present.

(Went for 3-1 loss with 1 shot on target and wanting us to win)

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4 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

God I feel bad picking the “no” option on the last question, but it’s for the greater good (“greater good!”). 

I should never want us to lose, but then as a supporter I should never have to be in this position. I wonder how much time and progress we lose owing to SL’s procrastination?

While the game is on I shall be watching the Queens Gambit. Wholly recommended to anyone who’s not yet watched it. 

Not that you need my approval but I think it's fine to be that way. You do want city to be good.

There are only a few people who want to cheer against the team and watch the world burn, so that they can be miserable and right.

I'm only not there with you because we don't have enough points to avoid relegation yet. Once we hit that mark, I think I'm down for losing to make changes!

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You get in very early with the match threads!

Gone for 1-3 and Holden will probably be gone.

In some ways, a tight narrow 1-0 win would just paper over the cracks so a debate on whether it could be ‘for the greater good’ if Reading win is valid.

It feels a bit like Millen’s side vs Blackpool before they won 4-0 and he went. Was for the greater good back then. 

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Tough to pick a team for tonight. I think I'd go:

Bentley

Hunt Vyner Kalas Dasilva (see below)

Nagy Bakinson

Semenyo Massengo Paterson

Wells

 

Justification:

Wells up front - Not ideal but a) he can actually score a goal sometimes and b) he'll be here next year, so we play him.

Semenyo/Massengo/Paterson - Could swap Massengo for Lansbury. Give them instructions that if at least 1 of them isn't sprinting forwards each time we have the ball they don't get paid that week. Tell Massengo to live in the opponents D on the edge of their box, or slightly inside.

Nagy/Bakinson: Just horses for courses really even though it's not a great partnership:

Hunt/Vyner/Kalas/Dasilva: I know it's risky playing Dasilva but I've actually got him in a wheelchair here. Was thinking about crutches (for the height) but he's quite short anyway so don't see it being a problem. Part of Paterson's instructions will be to give him a push when he runs past to help him get up and down the wing.

 

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23 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

God I feel bad picking the “no” option on the last question, but it’s for the greater good (“greater good!”). 

I should never want us to lose, but then as a supporter I should never have to be in this position. I wonder how much time and progress we lose owing to SL’s procrastination?

While the game is on I shall be watching the Queens Gambit. Wholly recommended to anyone who’s not yet watched it. 

I don’t, for your exact reasons

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7 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

You get in very early with the match threads!

I dunno, I figure that if it's started early, even if there's little interest, it means means everyone knows where to go, there aren't 15 different threads and maybe it even engages a few more people so that they watch later. + since I close the polls at kick off, it gives more people time to see it and get involved. I didn't like the chaos after the old regulars stopped doing these threads.

Gone for 1-3 and Holden will probably be gone.

In some ways, a tight narrow 1-0 win would just paper over the cracks so a debate on whether it could be ‘for the greater good’ if Reading win is valid.

It feels a bit like Millen’s side vs Blackpool before they won 4-0 and he went. Was for the greater good back then. 

I think Barnsley is the key game. We can have a "reaction" tonight, or even a loss with a decent performance, but lose against Barnsley at home, can't survive that.

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27 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

God I feel bad picking the “no” option on the last question, but it’s for the greater good (“greater good!”). 

I should never want us to lose, but then as a supporter I should never have to be in this position. I wonder how much time and progress we lose owing to SL’s procrastination?

While the game is on I shall be watching the Queens Gambit. Wholly recommended to anyone who’s not yet watched it. 

QG is next on my list after I've watched all 8 series of Spiral, also like you City need to lose tonight for the greater good

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14 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Tough to pick a team for tonight. I think I'd go:

Bentley

Hunt Vyner Kalas Dasilva (see below)

Nagy Bakinson

Semenyo Massengo Paterson

Wells

 

Justification:

Wells up front - Not ideal but a) he can actually score a goal sometimes and b) he'll be here next year, so we play him.

Semenyo/Massengo/Paterson - Could swap Massengo for Lansbury. Give them instructions that if at least 1 of them isn't sprinting forwards each time we have the ball they don't get paid that week. Tell Massengo to live in the opponents D on the edge of their box, or slightly inside.

Nagy/Bakinson: Just horses for courses really even though it's not a great partnership:

Hunt/Vyner/Kalas/Dasilva: I know it's risky playing Dasilva but I've actually got him in a wheelchair here. Was thinking about crutches (for the height) but he's quite short anyway so don't see it being a problem. Part of Paterson's instructions will be to give him a push when he runs past to help him get up and down the wing.

 

Paterson offers nothing, his stats against Watford were poosibly the worst I've ever seen for a footballer in any match

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18 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

You get in very early with the match threads!

Gone for 1-3 and Holden will probably be gone.

In some ways, a tight narrow 1-0 win would just paper over the cracks so a debate on whether it could be ‘for the greater good’ if Reading win is valid.

It feels a bit like Millen’s side vs Blackpool before they won 4-0 and he went. Was for the greater good back then. 

Absolutely

But shouldn’t we all be desperately wanting 3 points to ease some concerns about our free fall , whilst confident that the hierarchy will still realise that all the underlying signs from DH is that he isn’t the right man and be looking to the next appointment , regardless of tonight’s and the results until May 

We really shouldn’t have to wait for a real relegation threat for them to wake up 

Regardless of league position a manager / Head Coach should be continually assessed for his underlying trait qualities and weaknesses  - with league position being only a part guide

Id be more likely stick with a manager who finished 18th / 19th etc , if there were good reasons and the signs of green shoots and performance from him , and some decent building blocks were in place , whereas I might move on from a Head Coach who finished ninth who was flying by seat of his pants winging it week to week.

 

 

 

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Feels like Holden & his coaching staff have this week to turn it around, result would be good but would be more positive to see a performance with some grit and determination. 
The players all deemed happy that ‘Deano’ got the job with outpourings of happinesses but now is the time to evidence it. They simply can’t put in another lacklustre performance like Cardiff and Watford. 
Hate to say it but Dean needs players he can ‘trust’ and for me Fam should be nowhere near the starting 11 we need battlers and players who’ll put a real shift in for their manager and the club tonight 

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Realistically, he's probably going to be unemployed by this time next week and that would certainly be the right decision if do lose these next 2.

Until then though, full support required. It's been as tough a season to manage us as i can ever recall.

I don't enjoy the sarcastic 'great human being' digs, the blokes trying his best and needs us behind him. As he said, nothing has ever come easy in his life and i can relate to that. Support from people that care helps to get you through those difficult times and there doesn't seem to be a lot of that about on here right now.

Fully braced for a defeat but I'd like to see a responce from Sat and a decent performance.

A corner turning, morale boosting 2-1 win.

COYR!

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Galway Red said:

Paterson offers nothing, his stats against Watford were poosibly the worst I've ever seen for a footballer in any match

Right. But that's doesn't mean he's never offered anything though?

If you're not going to pick players who have bad games you're not going to have a single player on the pitch - it's up to the coaches to get them performing, that's their job.

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1 minute ago, daored said:

Feels like Holden & his coaching staff have this week to turn it around, result would be good but would be more positive to see a performance with some grit and determination. 
The players all deemed happy that ‘Deano’ got the job with outpourings of happinesses but now is the time to evidence it. They simply can’t put in another lacklustre performance like Cardiff and Watford. 
Hate to say it but Dean needs players he can ‘trust’ and for me Fam should be nowhere near the starting 11 we need battlers and players who’ll put a real shift in for their manager and the club tonight 

I think one or two of them need dropping out altogether tbh...........not even a place on the bench. If I was Dean, knowing the sack is pretty much inevitable, I would tell Fam to stay at home tonight after his "effort" on Saturday and the previous three matches. Same with Taylor Moore.......you either want to listen and be a good footballer at this level or just stay at home on your Playstation and see what comes up when your contract runs out (I listened to what Tinnion said about him on Saturday and bearing in mind he has to hold back a little bit as a club employee, it spoke volumes to me). What difference does it make to Dean after the players gave him the most clear of middle fingers that could be given to a Manager on Saturday? His job is being given to someone else next season anyway so why not embarrass one or two players in public for what they are and tell the media why you've dropped them too. It's Steve's mess to sort out now, not his.

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If it means clearing out staff that aren't up to the job then I'll take another kicking. If it means bringing in a Pearson or Cook or Adkins to stabilise and reevaluate the squad at the end of the season then I'll take a kicking. 

It's a shambles and it's SL's mess and it needs sorting. If we play crap and win 1-0 it won't get sorted 

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1 minute ago, harvey54 said:

If it means clearing out staff that aren't up to the job then I'll take another kicking. If it means bringing in a Pearson or Cook or Adkins to stabilise and reevaluate the squad at the end of the season then I'll take a kicking. 

It's a shambles and it's SL's mess and it needs sorting. If we play crap and win 1-0 it won't get sorted 

It will..............at season ticket renewal time. We know there are 9-10K that will renew come what may but that still leaves a lot of money up for grabs.

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There's been a huge amount of talk now but I don't even think a "performance" without a result will be good enough tonight. A draw will buy him another game.

My prediction is a similar pattern to Watford - they will look for the confidence destroying early first goal: either by hitting us hard early on, or letting us come and have a go (which we need to do) so they can nick one on the break. 

Either way, if Reading score first, it's curtains. I just don't see a scenario where the players will have the game plan or confidence to get our first win against a top 6 team this season - so unfortunately I see another 2, or 3 -0 defeat tonight.

 

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7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I think one or two of them need dropping out altogether tbh...........not even a place on the bench. If I was Dean, knowing the sack is pretty much inevitable, I would tell Fam to stay at home tonight after his "effort" on Saturday and the previous three matches. Same with Taylor Moore.......you either want to listen and be a good footballer at this level or just stay at home on your Playstation and see what comes up when your contract runs out (I listened to what Tinnion said about him on Saturday and bearing in mind he has to hold back a little bit as a club employee, it spoke volumes to me). What difference does it make to Dean after the players gave him the most clear of middle fingers that could be given to a Manager on Saturday? His job is being given to someone else next season anyway so why not embarrass one or two players in public for what they are and tell the media why you've dropped them too. It's Steve's mess to sort out now, not his.

Bit unfair on Taylor Moore there

Everything I hear about him and from him suggests he is as motivated as anyone we have and desperate to play well and perform for the team rather than himself - Unfortunately he has flaws which won’t seem to go away - I am certain he would be the most attentive listener but fails to execute - Capability as opposed to attitude

As for Famara - Someone capable of a whole lot more , with an attitude that I find , and always found , difficult to watch - has a few gears which he decides when to or not to use

 

The other thing I’d say - publicly shame either , or any other player in that way , and you probably have the squad down tools (Accepting they all but did Saturday)

 

I think Dean has real problems - Not sure the players buy into him and we have a lot of the more senior players OOC in June - if they are either disgruntled over no new offer or thinking they are unlikely to be here next season , footballers being footballers, you have a real motivation problem 

 

 

Edited by Sheltons Army
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Normally, and under LJ, I would expect a “reaction” (such a nonsense phrase, blue sky, circle back etc) but we have been so abject, and still cannot cover up the black hole which is left back, I just can’t see how we play well today. 
 

in the LJ days we may well have gone on a long losing run, but within that run there were normally slight chinks of light, but this is so far removed from that. To get a result tonight would take 8/9 players, most of whom are pretty much guaranteed to start, upping their performance by 3 or 4 marks out of 10, 48 hours after a 6-0 defeat. Fair play if they do it, but it would almost be a miracle. 

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10 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Bit unfair on Taylor Moore there

Everything I hear about him and from him suggests he is as motivated as anyone we have and desperate to play well and perform for the team rather than himself - Unfortunately he has flaws which won’t seem to go away - I am certain he would be the most attentive listener but fails to execute - Capability as opposed to attitude

As for Famara - Someone capable of a whole lot more , with an attitude that I find , and always found , difficult to watch - has a few gears which he decides when to or not to use

 

The other thing I’d say - publicly shame either , or any other player in that way , and you probably have the squad down tools

 

 

Blimey, if they didn't down tools on Saturday then I would love to see them properly down tools...........that would be something worth seeing at least once just to say you saw it.

Taylor Moore has had a gazillion chances and all he has demonstrated is he simply does not have the concentration levels to play Championship football to the consistently required level. You could sense that Tinnion is sick and tired of the guy being told what he should be doing and straight up failing to do it. He is a liability and should be nowhere near a starting XI or bench imo. I got shouted down about 12 months ago for suggesting he was making no improvement and, if anything, he's going backwards at an alarming rate. Fam, on the other hand, does have the ability but any manager who picks a player in the squad WHO HAS GIVEN ABSOLUTELY **** ALL FOR FOUR CONSECUTIVE MATCHES literally has no bollocks and will be humiliated by the players in any event because don't think for a second they don't realise that Dave is taking the piss. They will know better than anyone. There's people out there like Zav Vyner, HNM and Tyreeq Bakinson  trying to forge careers for themselves and they will know full well what is happening in front of them. There will also be players like Nakhi Wells justifiably moaning like a bastard on the sidelines because, rate him or not, he would give more than Fam has lately.

Edited by Numero Uno
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