SL, you wondered why people are questioning with MA....

[Alessandro]

Steve - you said on radio Bristol on Monday that Mark Ashton “get’s a lot of stick from the fans…but it’s unjustified…..it’s easy to do that, everybody’s looking for a scapegoat…..he deserves a lot of praise for what he’s done”.

Well - this is what he’s done and this is why many people are focussing in on him and his performance…

 

In 5 seasons - fees for players he has signed and sold (i.e not academy or already at club):

• 68 players signed for the approx cost of £60m
• Player sales in that time £37m
• Balance = £-23m.
• This doesn’t even include signing on or loan fees.
• In that time the wage bill has gone up by 78% to nearly £30m a year.

BCFC's income may be up 56% yet costs have leaped 110% (approx £50m in 5 years - not including wages) suggesting a large chunk of that £50m has gone to agents to broker those nearly 70 deals.

So, anywhere up to £-73m spent on transfers and, wait for it...£108m on wages, in 5 years by Mark Ashton for:

 

• 17th, 11th, 8th, 12th and currently 13th place. 

 

So you have to ask: Is our current squad worth £70m or is our current squad good enough for promotion? I think we know the answer. You can cite covid, but i'll cite Ollie Watkins or Matty Cash. Deals are still being done for the right players.

MA and his recruitment is expensive and failing, propped up by players before his time or the academy and he is heaping debt on SL and the club. It's a very slippery slope.

So for goodness sake, keep MA for his meetings with the FA if you must - but once and for all - employ a REAL experienced team in recruitment and the football side - given how important that pillar of our strategy is for us and any chance we have for success in the future.

 

(Thank you @Davefevs for the figures - Gregor McG feel free to put any of this to the club and hopefully some of these figures will find their way to 20man for the next MA appearance)

[Davefevs]

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-much-bristol-city-spent-1414864

[Simon bristol]

Player sales are only 37 million?? Im no fan of his, but some players were sold in the last 5 years, whether he was involved in their purchase or not doesnt  really matter does it? I thought the head coach had the final decision?

we dont know the actual figures, but if we go with approximate numbers, we have webster at about 20 initially, brownhill 9, kelly 12, reid 10, bryan 6, kodjia was sold by lj, was that another 15? Probably 1 or 2 others ive forgotten? Flint 6??

we have basically sold off everyone we can, most of the incomings have been poor, we got especially lucky with webster.

im not saying ashton was solely responsible for those deals, i could have put a suit on and those players would still have been worth what someone was willing to pay.

[Olé]

Wage bill up 100%. Mark's salary up 100%.

[steveybadger]

6 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Player sales are only 37 million?? Im no fan of his, but some players were sold in the last 5 years, whether he was involved in their purchase or not doesnt  really matter does it? I thought the head coach had the final decision?

we dont know the actual figures, but if we go with approximate numbers, we have webster at about 20 initially, brownhill 9, kelly 12, reid 10, bryan 6, kodjia was sold by lj, was that another 15? Probably 1 or 2 others ive forgotten? Flint 6??

we have basically sold off everyone we can, most of the incomings have been poor, we got especially lucky with webster.

im not saying ashton was solely responsible for those deals, i could have put a suit on and those players would still have been worth what someone was willing to pay.

Ye my understanding of the transfer fees received was same as yours, which means not a very high net transfer fee spend over 5 years (c£4m per season?) Though not inc wages as per op.

To play devils advocate, is this (re wages / transfers) what you have to spend to finish where we have, on average? I know there are examples of teams with less cash having finished higher, but there are plenty others with more finishing lower? Just trying to get a sense of how we are performing relative to competition?

[Alessandro]

32 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Player sales are only 37 million?? Im no fan of his, but some players were sold in the last 5 years, whether he was involved in their purchase or not doesnt  really matter does it? I thought the head coach had the final decision?

we dont know the actual figures, but if we go with approximate numbers, we have webster at about 20 initially, brownhill 9, kelly 12, reid 10, bryan 6, kodjia was sold by lj, was that another 15? Probably 1 or 2 others ive forgotten? Flint 6??

we have basically sold off everyone we can, most of the incomings have been poor, we got especially lucky with webster.

im not saying ashton was solely responsible for those deals, i could have put a suit on and those players would still have been worth what someone was willing to pay.

That is why I say the figures exclude player sales from the academy (Kelly, Reid, Bryan etc) or players already at the club (Kodjia, Flint). If anything those sales prove how much our policy has relied on them - but now they're gone - we need to find the next Webster and Brownhill and Kodjia. 

(Some people might also want to highlight our two biggest sales, Webster and Brownhill - £27m of those above sales of MA's - were LJ choices, but i've not mentioned that as there are no doubt players LJ recommended that didn't work out)

The question being raised though is about recruitment as a whole, value for money and most importantly talent ID - not ability to just broker deals. 

[Red-Robbo]

21 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Steve - you said on radio Bristol on Monday that Mark Ashton “get’s a lot of stick from the fans…but it’s unjustified…..it’s easy to do that, everybody’s looking for a scapegoat…..he deserves a lot of praise for what he’s done”.

Well - this is what he’s done and this is why many people are focussing in on him and his performance…

 

In 5 seasons - fees for players he has signed and sold (i.e not academy or already at club):

• 68 players signed for the approx cost of £60m
• Player sales in that time £37m
• Balance = £-23m.
• This doesn’t even include signing on or loan fees.
• In that time the wage bill has gone up by 78% to nearly £30m a year.

BCFC's income may be up 56% yet costs have leaped 110% (approx £50m in 5 years - not including wages) suggesting a large chunk of that £50m has gone to agents to broker those nearly 70 deals.

So, anywhere up to £-73m spent on transfers and, wait for it...£108m on wages, in 5 years by Mark Ashton for:

 

• 17th, 11th, 8th, 12th and currently 13th place. 

 

So you have to ask: Is our current squad worth £70m or is our current squad good enough for promotion? I think we know the answer. You can cite covid, but i'll cite Ollie Watkins or Matty Cash. Deals are still being done for the right players.

MA and his recruitment is expensive and failing, propped up by players before his time or the academy and he is heaping debt on SL and the club. It's a very slippery slope.

So for goodness sake, keep MA for his meetings with the FA if you must - but once and for all - employ a REAL experienced team in recruitment and the football side - given how important that pillar of our strategy is for us and any chance we have for success in the future.

 

(Thank you @Davefevs for the figures - Gregor McG feel free to put any of this to the club and hopefully some of these figures will find their way to 20man for the next MA appearance)

 

Yep the wings definitely need to be clipped on Ashton's responsibility creep and empire-building.

What manager of any note will want to work under a regime where he has little say on who he has to work with?  Any manager will want to set the general direction of the first-team football set-up.

[Lrrr]

I think its unfair to exclude sales of academy players and those at the club but say that all purchases count against him where their value is still in the squad at the moment. Perhaps a fairer way would be to estimate the value of the players in the squad vs the value they were signed for as well (factoring covid value drop).

[Alessandro]

6 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

Ye my understanding of the transfer fees received was same as yours, which means not a very high net transfer fee spend over 5 years (c£4m per season?) Though not inc wages as per op.

See reply above - i'm talking about MA, his team and their talent ID.

To play devils advocate, is this (re wages / transfers) what you have to spend to finish where we have, on average? I know there are examples of teams with less cash having finished higher, but there are plenty others with more finishing lower? Just trying to get a sense of how we are performing relative to competition?

That would be an interesting comparison as always there will be examples for both sides of the argument. I suspect our wage bill is around top 12 now, depends on whether the likes of Brum, Huddersfield, Wednesday, Derby etc have cut theirs, without trawling everyones accounts the figures are at least 2 year our of date. 

If you look at transfer fee spends, we'd be higher I suspect.

But i'd argue against focussing on comparisons, and looking more at whether we are getting value for money player wise.

 

[Alessandro]

2 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

I think its unfair to exclude sales of academy players and those at the club but say that all purchases count against him where their value is still in the squad at the moment. Perhaps a fairer way would be to estimate the value of the players in the squad vs the value they were signed for as well (factoring covid value drop).

That has been done by @Davefevs before and is very subjective. You can have a go of course, but i'd ask you, where are the next (£10/15/20m) big fees coming from in our squad? You're looking at potentially a handful outside of any academy products. Bentley, Dasilva and perhaps Williams. Not good. 

I'll say again, i'm talking about talent ID and how we re-invest in our squad, as SL said on the radio.

At the moment, it looks like MA has traded on players he didn't sign.

All this might be fine of course if the performances on the pitch were different and the position in the table wasn't what it was, of course....

[grifty]

18 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

That is why I say the figures exclude player sales from the academy (Kelly, Reid, Bryan etc) or players already at the club (Kodjia, Flint). If anything those sales prove how much our policy has relied on them - but now they're gone - we need the find the next Webster and Brownhill and Kodjia. 

(Some people might also want to highlight our two biggest sales, Webster and Brownhill - £27m of those above sales of MA's - were LJ choices, but i've not mentioned that as there are no doubt players LJ recommended that didn't work out)

The question being raised though is about recruitment as a whole, value for money and most importantly talent ID - not ability to just broker deals. 

So basically try and find a reason to not include any player we've sold under MA tenure in order to have a further dog at MA? Solid thought process.

[Alessandro]

1 minute ago, grifty said:

So basically try and find a reason to not include any player we've sold under MA tenure in order to have a further dog at MA? Solid thought process.

Not finding reasons. For me it's pretty black and white - i'm looking at players MA signed and MA sold. Simple.

Not to have a dig, so we can debate how we got into our current predicament and how we get out of it.

If you're happy with everything, good for you, as you were then.

[grifty]

32 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Player sales are only 37 million?? Im no fan of his, but some players were sold in the last 5 years, whether he was involved in their purchase or not doesnt  really matter does it? I thought the head coach had the final decision?

we dont know the actual figures, but if we go with approximate numbers, we have webster at about 20 initially, brownhill 9, kelly 12, reid 10, bryan 6, kodjia was sold by lj, was that another 15? Probably 1 or 2 others ive forgotten? Flint 6??

we have basically sold off everyone we can, most of the incomings have been poor, we got especially lucky with webster.

im not saying ashton was solely responsible for those deals, i could have put a suit on and those players would still have been worth what someone was willing to pay.

Why was it especially lucky? Why was it not an example of a good talent ID, nurturing of a player and then selling off for our highest ever sale? Something we should aspire to do more of, but have to accept it's not going to happen with every player.

Why wasn't Engvall especially unlucky? An example of poor talent ID, nurturing of a player and then managing to recoup some of what we spent on him. Something we shouldn't aspire to do, but have to accept it may happen from time to time.

[steviestevieneville]

4 minutes ago, grifty said:

So basically try and find a reason to not include any player we've sold under MA tenure in order to have a further dog at MA? Solid thought process.

It’s about the players he bought & sold really . The squad has got significantly weaker since he’s come in. The title winning squad was put together by Kieth Burt . As the years under Ashton has gone on , the vast majority of players he’s brought in are of a lesser quality than the players he’s sold 

[grifty]

Just now, steviestevieneville said:

It’s about the players he bought & sold really 

But he was involved (I presume) in the selling most/all of the players sold since he's been here, so to take them out because he wasn't involved in signing them (surely he wouldn't be involved in signing any academy players so they should never be involved on this basis? If we sold Towler and MA managed to organise a £20m transfer, he didn't buy him so it shouldn't count).

I'm afraid it's not as simple as it's just about the players he bought and sold.

[steviestevieneville]

Just now, grifty said:

But he was involved (I presume) in the selling most/all of the players sold since he's been here, so to take them out because he wasn't involved in signing them (surely he wouldn't be involved in signing any academy players so they should never be involved on this basis? If we sold Towler and MA managed to organise a £20m transfer, he didn't buy him so it shouldn't count).

I'm afraid it's not as simple as it's just about the players he bought and sold.

I edited my last post above 

[grifty]

4 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Not finding reasons. For me it's pretty black and white - i'm looking at players MA signed and MA sold. Simple.

Not to have a dig, so we can debate how we got into our current predicament and how we get out of it.

If you're happy with everything, good for you, as you were then.

Then you need to be fair. You have include EVERY sale that MA was involved in and EVERY purchase under his tenure. He doesn't get credit for the signing of players before he was here, but he gets credit for the sale of them if he organised it. If you are going to debate it, you need to take into account all the facts and figures, not just pick and choose who you include.

Not sure where I've said I'm happy with everything so as we were? Just because I don't agree with how you've chosen to add (another) thread on Ashton. If you didn't want anyone to disagree with you, you should have said that in your opening post.

[grifty]

3 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I edited my last post above 

I agree with your edit post. I believe we need a thorough restructure, MA, DH out, etc however if it's going to be discussed, it should be done fairly rather than the witch-hunt that is currently going on.

[downendcity]

Some slightly disengeuous comments on this thread. 

Whatever else he might be, he has demonstrated his ability as a negotiator. Who would honestly have expected us to get the fees we did for Kodjia. Flint, Webster and especially Kelly, notwithstanding whether he brought them here, or if they were Academy players?

I've said before that I have no problem with the club's strategy of selling players of necessity because of the pressures of ffp. 

However, where I have an issue is that until 18 months to 2 years ago we were following that strategy, but still staying pretty competitive at the right end of the table even if we kept falling just short

In the meantime, performances and, increasingly, results have deteriorated, until we reach where we are now, i.e looking like we will be competing at the wrong end of the table. 

My conclusion is that some of this is due to the players that have been bought into the club. If this was at the head coaches request, then the head coach (previously LJ and now DH) carry the can. However I think most suspect that MA's hand is firmly on such decisions. 

While selling better players must have some impact on the team, surely it cannot be to the detrimental extent we have seen, especially in the last 12 months. 

If MA was heavily involved in the appointment of DH, then together with his involvement in players brought in that have proved to be expensive flops, then for me the credit he earned from player profit has been wiped out. 

Perhaps SL increasingly sees things the same? 

[Dr Balls]

And as I posted on another thread, Brownhill had been spotted by Johnson already, having had him on loan at Barnsley, while Webster was a recommendation from Cole Skuse at Ipswich.

Which really suggests that Ashton’s recruitment system hasn’t really turned up anyone that has been sold on for a big fee. In fact SO’D and Cotterill with Burt did a far better job of recruiting well than Ashton, and even then he managed to sell Ayling for a pittance. That was definitely not his finest hour.

As for the Ashton recruitment record, there are a lot of duds, especially some of the loans.

[tin]

1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

Steve - you said on radio Bristol on Monday that Mark Ashton “get’s a lot of stick from the fans…but it’s unjustified…..it’s easy to do that, everybody’s looking for a scapegoat…..he deserves a lot of praise for what he’s done”.

Well - this is what he’s done and this is why many people are focussing in on him and his performance…

In 5 seasons - fees for players he has signed and sold (i.e not academy or already at club):

• 68 players signed for the approx cost of £60m
• Player sales in that time £37m
• Balance = £-23m.
• This doesn’t even include signing on or loan fees.
• In that time the wage bill has gone up by 78% to nearly £30m a year.

BCFC's income may be up 56% yet costs have leaped 110% (approx £50m in 5 years - not including wages) suggesting a large chunk of that £50m has gone to agents to broker those nearly 70 deals.

So, anywhere up to £-73m spent on transfers and, wait for it...£108m on wages, in 5 years by Mark Ashton for:

• 17th
• 11th
• 8th
• 12th
• currently 13th place. 

So you have to ask: Is our current squad worth £70m or is our current squad good enough for promotion? I think we know the answer. You can cite covid, but i'll cite Ollie Watkins or Matty Cash. Deals are still being done for the right players.

MA and his recruitment is expensive and failing, propped up by players before his time or the academy and he is heaping debt on SL and the club. It's a very slippery slope.

So for goodness sake, keep MA for his meetings with the FA if you must - but once and for all - employ a REAL experienced team in recruitment and the football side - given how important that pillar of our strategy is for us and any chance we have for success in the future.

(Thank you @Davefevs for the figures - Gregor McG feel free to put any of this to the club and hopefully some of these figures will find their way to 20man for the next MA appearance)

Excellent objective post, @Alessandro.

As SL said on Radio Bristol last night: "the facts speak for themselves". 

Time to take decisive, informed action to stop the rot. 

[Alessandro]

4 minutes ago, grifty said:

Then you need to be fair. You have include EVERY sale that MA was involved in and EVERY purchase under his tenure. He doesn't get credit for the signing of players before he was here, but he gets credit for the sale of them if he organised it. If you are going to debate it, you need to take into account all the facts and figures, not just pick and choose who you include.

Not sure where I've said I'm happy with everything so as we were? Just because I don't agree with how you've chosen to add (another) thread on Ashton. If you didn't want anyone to disagree with you, you should have said that in your opening post.

I'm not sure how many other ways I can say it other than we are looking at the players MA has brought in and their development or value on and off the pitch.

I give MA credit for being the first person to get us proper value from player sales in the market yes, but many weren't his signings.

If we are debating MA's team and MA's talent ID - including players he didn't sign doesn't come into it, IMO. You want him to have credit for players he didn't sign.

(And r.e your last paragraph - just because I disagree with you, it doesn't mean I don't expect everyone to agree with me and I did not say that)

[maxjak]

I don't get   it?...........so for example Webster sold for 20 mill, so Ashton receives credit for that?   A used car salesman with a good line of patter could have negotiated a   20 mill deal for Webster, it wasn't exactly a hard or difficult sale ?  It was LJ who spotted  him I believe, with the assistance of scouting reports, I really think Ashton is getting far too much credit for very little input?

[Alessandro]

4 minutes ago, tin said:

Excellent post, @Alessandro.

As SL said on Radio Bristol last night: "the facts speak for themselves". 

Time to take decisive action on them to stop the rot. 

Thanks - i'll admit I have taken the figures to focus on MA, not just to criticise as some are keen to jump at me to say, but to simply look at the figures around MA and his performance in talent ID.

It is, so important after all, we get it right. 

At the moment, you'd say we might get value from a few of his signings, but more likely is a big fee or two from the academy - cash that he will re-invest with - and i'm asking, looking at his re-investment record over the last 5 years, do you trust him to sign the right players so we're not still treading water, or worse.

[grifty]

5 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I'm not sure how many other ways I can say it other than we are looking at the players MA has brought in and their development or value on and off the pitch.

I give MA credit for being the first person to get us proper value from player sales in the market yes, but many weren't his signings.

If we are debating MA's team and MA's talent ID - including players he didn't sign doesn't come into it, IMO. You want him to have credit for players he didn't sign.

(And r.e your last paragraph - just because I disagree with you, it doesn't mean I don't expect everyone to agree with me and I did not say that)

You need to assess MAs performance as a whole, not just pick or choose which players you are going to include.

MAs talent ID - Don't include players already at the club in the assessment of him.

MAs negotiating - Do include players he's sold regardless if they were at the club when he joined or not.

I don't want him to have credit for players he didn't sign. The fact you've said that means you haven't read any of my posts properly.

[Alessandro]

1 minute ago, maxjak said:

I don't get   it?...........so for example Webster sold for 20 mill, so Ashton receives credit for that?   A used car salesman with a good line of patter could have negotiated a   20 mill deal for Webster, it wasn't exactly a hard or difficult sale ?  It was LJ who spotted  him I believe, with the assistance of scouting reports, I really think Ashton is getting far too much credit for very little input?

That is another way to look at it - yes MA did finally start us getting good fees for players - but let's be honest, he's not the only CEO doing that in this league - top 20 championship sells:

• 1	Nathan Aké Centre-Back	25	20/21		Man City  Premier League	£40.77m
  2	Moussa Sissoko Central Midfield	27	16/17		Spurs  Premier League	£31.50m
  3	Ollie Watkins Centre-Forward	24	20/21		Aston Villa  Premier League	£27.72m
  4	Jordan Pickford Goalkeeper	23	17/18		Everton  Premier League	£25.65m
  5	Ben Godfrey Centre-Back	22	20/21		Everton  Premier League	£24.75m
  6	Georginio Wijnaldum Central Midfield	25	16/17		Liverpool  Premier League	£24.75m
  7	Ryan Sessegnon Left-Back	19	19/20		Spurs  Premier League	£24.30m
  8	James Maddison Attacking Midfield	21	18/19		Leicester  Premier League	£22.50m
  9	Darren Bent Centre-Forward	23	07/08		Spurs  Premier League	£22.28m
  10	Saïd Benrahma Left Winger	25	20/21		West Ham  Premier League	£20.79m
  11	Jude Bellingham Central Midfield	17	20/21		Bor. Dortmund  Bundesliga	£20.70m
  12	Callum Wilson Centre-Forward	28	20/21		Newcastle  Premier League	£20.03m
  13	Neal Maupay Centre-Forward	22	19/20		Brighton  Premier League	£20.00m
  14	Adam Webster Centre-Back	24	19/20		Brighton  Premier League	£20.00m
  15	Abdoulaye Doucouré Central Midfield	27	20/21		Everton  Premier League	£19.89m
  16	Jarrod Bowen Right Winger	23	19/20		West Ham  Premier League	£19.17m
  17	Aaron Ramsdale Goalkeeper	22	20/21		Sheff Utd  Premier League	£18.45m
  18	Adama Traoré Right Winger	22	18/19		Wolves  Premier League	£18.00m
  19	Oliver McBurnie Centre-Forward	23	19/20		Sheff Utd  Premier League	£17.19m
  20	Salomón Rondón Centre-Forward	29	19/20		DL Pro  Super League	£16.44m

 

[tin]

20 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Thanks - i'll admit I have taken the figures to focus on MA, not just to criticise as some are keen to jump at me to say, but to simply look at the figures around MA and his performance in talent ID.

It is, so important after all, we get it right. 

At the moment, you'd say we might get value from a few of his signings, but more likely is a big fee or two from the academy - cash that he will re-invest with - and i'm asking, looking at his re-investment record over the last 5 years, do you trust him to sign the right players so we're not still treading water, or worse.

Yeah, it's pretty clear you've focused on his and team's performance in talent ID over a decent amount of time.

You're correct to say LJ was responsible for identifying Webster, who came via Cole Skuse at Ipswich, and Brownhill, who LJ had managed at Barnsley. Ashton deserves credit for maximising values in those sales.

I'd say Bentley is the only current asset we have, although Cotts was tracking him while he was at Southend.

If you look at the last six permanent signings we've made, they have the average age of 31. That tells its own story in terms of Ashton's performance, IMO, even if that is over the last 12 months. There's next to no ROI on those six signings, regardless of the pandemic. 

[grifty]

4 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

That is another way to look at it - yes MA did finally start us getting good fees for players - but let's be honest, he's not the only CEO doing that in this league - top 20 championship sells:

• 1	Nathan Aké Centre-Back	25	20/21		Man City  Premier League	£40.77m
  2	Moussa Sissoko Central Midfield	27	16/17		Spurs  Premier League	£31.50m
  3	Ollie Watkins Centre-Forward	24	20/21		Aston Villa  Premier League	£27.72m
  4	Jordan Pickford Goalkeeper	23	17/18		Everton  Premier League	£25.65m
  5	Ben Godfrey Centre-Back	22	20/21		Everton  Premier League	£24.75m
  6	Georginio Wijnaldum Central Midfield	25	16/17		Liverpool  Premier League	£24.75m
  7	Ryan Sessegnon Left-Back	19	19/20		Spurs  Premier League	£24.30m
  8	James Maddison Attacking Midfield	21	18/19		Leicester  Premier League	£22.50m
  9	Darren Bent Centre-Forward	23	07/08		Spurs  Premier League	£22.28m
  10	Saïd Benrahma Left Winger	25	20/21		West Ham  Premier League	£20.79m
  11	Jude Bellingham Central Midfield	17	20/21		Bor. Dortmund  Bundesliga	£20.70m
  12	Callum Wilson Centre-Forward	28	20/21		Newcastle  Premier League	£20.03m
  13	Neal Maupay Centre-Forward	22	19/20		Brighton  Premier League	£20.00m
  14	Adam Webster Centre-Back	24	19/20		Brighton  Premier League	£20.00m
  15	Abdoulaye Doucouré Central Midfield	27	20/21		Everton  Premier League	£19.89m
  16	Jarrod Bowen Right Winger	23	19/20		West Ham  Premier League	£19.17m
  17	Aaron Ramsdale Goalkeeper	22	20/21		Sheff Utd  Premier League	£18.45m
  18	Adama Traoré Right Winger	22	18/19		Wolves  Premier League	£18.00m
  19	Oliver McBurnie Centre-Forward	23	19/20		Sheff Utd  Premier League	£17.19m
  20	Salomón Rondón Centre-Forward	29	19/20		DL Pro  Super League	£16.44m

 

Now I know you're on the wind up 

[Alessandro]

3 minutes ago, grifty said:

You need to assess MAs performance as a whole, not just pick or choose which players you are going to include.

MAs talent ID - Don't include players already at the club in the assessment of him.

MAs negotiating - Do include players he's sold regardless if they were at the club when he joined or not.

I don't want him to have credit for players he didn't sign. The fact you've said that means you haven't read any of my posts properly.

I've read your posts. But I don't understand your logic.

You seem to put more importance on negotiating sales of players than identifying them.

I'm not talking about MA's performance as a negotiator.

I am talking about his performance to adhere to SL's key pillar - buy and add value to players or the squad.

[grifty]

1 minute ago, Alessandro said:

I've read your posts. But I don't understand your logic.

You seem to put more importance on negotiating sales of players than identifying them.

I'm not talking about MA's performance as a negotiator.

I am talking about his performance to adhere to SL's key pillar - buy and add value to players or the squad.

No, no I don't. I'm saying you put NO importance on selling them, only talent ID.

SLs pillar includes selling players for a profit, but again, you leave that out to form your argument. The basis behind your idea of what does Ashton bring is a just one, but you need to look at EVERYTHING that MA does, buying, selling talent ID, etc.