Who is available? genuine options. Who's your realistic next HC

[Tears in rain]

6 minutes ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

from the "available" list ,Quique Sánchez Flores doesnt have too many rivals

Not a big enough club for him surely? He’s been knocking about in the premier league and la liga for a while now.

Don’t get me wrong I do like him! I just can’t see it happening. 

[tin]

Who’s available and who’s a genuine contender are two different questions right now which centre on Ashton and whether he remains in his current role.

No available manager worth their salt will be willing to work under Ashton, IMO, which rules out the obvious available candidates — Cook, Pearson and Howe. 

If Ashton remains, I think it’ll be someone like Mark Hughes, Neil Harris, the Cowleys or Michael Appleton, all of which are destined to fail, IMO. 

If I was SL, I’d either be moving Ashton sideways or getting rid of him altogether and going after Jokanovich, Cook or Pearson — but I’m not SL. I’m also impressed with Valerian Ismail, Barnsley boss, and would like someone with a similar profile.

 

[The Bard]

18 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

City have missed out on all of the firemen short contractors except one, Nigel Pearson. 

To save face, in the hope Ashton had to eat some humble pie here, he could offer NP a short contract to finish the season strongly.. if he does that well there will be a huge clamour for a longer term deal. If not then no harm done other than preserve status.

Problem is persuading the guy. If the money is right and he knows he can walk away in the summer it could be a win win.

Totally agree.  Scare the shit out the players.  Get a few wins and let the him look at what is needed.  Can SL trust him so that he gets the control he needs?  10/12 weeks to find out.

[chipdawg]

I don't know why people don't think Eddie Howe would consider the job. Not because I think we're particularly attractive right now, but because Bournemouth is just about commutable for him and after his experience at Burnley, it's quite clear that he doesn't want to move from the South Coast. I also think that the Lansdowns may have learned something from the Hughton debacle and that they may be prepared to make some structural changes for the right candidate, even if they won't go as far as getting rid of Ashton

[Taz]

Knowing the board, it will be someone from League 1 or below. If the setup is not going to change (transfers, Ashton etc), then expect a younger guy with little backbone.

What does intrigue me, is after SL's interview, you get the impression that he's taken the finger off the pulse a bit, and is now ready to become involved more as his incompetent son and Mr Buzzword have royally messed this up with Holdens appointment. With that in mind, we all know Steve likes a name, as well as making people sit up and go "oh, so and so have gone to Bristol City. I didn't see that coming". The thing is, unless he's going to reign Ashton's involvement in a bit, no "name" will want to work alongside him.

Bilic, Jokanovic, McClaren (who is working as technical director at Derby), won't have the overall say that they would want. Lampard is unrealistic (although it wouldn't surprise me if we went there and tried), Cook has already ruled himself out in the summer, and Howe I just can't see happening.

People are mentioning Ainsworth, is there really anything there to suggest he could do a decent job higher up? Wycombe are rooted to the bottom of the table, yes they're playing decent enough football, but to be honest most teams compared to us recently would look like Barcelona!! Is it the leather jacket and "rock band" thing?

Mark Robins could be a realistic name, but again, has never really done much as a manager at this level above mid table. 

Someone like Pearson is not going to come in as they'll rock the boat too much. 

Neil at Preston, they're not overly attractive (again, we're far from at the moment), but they are consistent and hard to beat.

Monk, seems to float around the league when clubs are looking around, again nothing spectacular.

Mark Hughes has been mentioned before, most likely tongue in cheek, but usually goes for the lower Prem clubs when they're desperate. Would be interesting, ticks the "name" box, has experience above and was a hugely respected player - something Little Lee and "Deano" never were. Would divide opinion, but may turn us around. Financially out of our reach though.

As for finances, I think that is what is going to dictate the next appointment. We've had the "experiments and projects", had the cheap internal appointments, I honestly don't see how the board (mainly Steve) can afford to lose face again and not push the boat out a bit. The players are clearly not responding at the moment, so someone needs to come in quickly and sort that issue out.

I honestly can't call it, but they can't afford to take 6 weeks and appoint Simpson again. This appointment has to be right, has to get the fanbase largely on side (you'll never please everyone), but also realise we are not as attractive as we were in the summer. Damaged goods so to speak. We'll either have someone in within a week, or it will go 3 or 4 weeks. If it is the latter, I worry it will be too late for us as we're on a downward slide. Also if Simpson or Downing are appointed, even if it is until the end of the season, then things are going to get ugly quick, in more ways than one.

This appointment cannot afford to be wrong.

[Silvio Dante]

21 minutes ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

from the "available" list ,Quique Sánchez Flores doesnt have too many rivals

Particularly when it comes to his score in scrabble.

[mjd]

My point is who ever comes in they will have to  be able to motivate the players . As some my not be here in the summer. 

[Alessandro]

The morning after the night before and I’ve got more questions than answers.

The main question for me is, do they think Holden was just a hiccup - we’ve lost our captain overboard, but the admiral says keep the ship on the same heading.....or is it time for an about turn?

The owner has a list from the summer, which may have changed a bit in terms of availability - but if he thinks we’ve still got the squad and the right structure, expect an Appleton or similar. If that happens - MA’s feet are well and truly under the table and we go again.

If the owner thinks, or is starting to think to need to look deeper than just the head coach - we may well see a stop gap before a re-think in the summer. Expect caretaker Simmo or perhaps even an expensive short term deal for a Pearson type.

For what it’s worth, IMO the issues are wider than the head coach, there is enough evidence for it, enough noise about it and enough comments in the press and enough underachieving at the club now that surely SL, intelligent man that he is, will see we can’t just carry on as we were, business as usual, but with an Appleton or Moore.

Wait to the summer, re-structure the recruitment, strip out the dead wood in the squad and then we might see a Cook or even Howe. 

[tin]

13 minutes ago, Taz said:

Mark Hughes has been mentioned before, most likely tongue in cheek, but usually goes for the lower Prem clubs when they're desperate. Would be interesting, ticks the "name" box, has experience above and was a hugely respected player - something Little Lee and "Deano" never were. Would divide opinion, but may turn us around. Financially out of our reach though.

Ticks the name box and is a friend of Ashton. I could see this happening, but his career is heading south. He's done nothing since leaving Man City 12 years' ago. 

[Red Zeppelin]

46 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Interesting use of the word ‘always’.  Cotterill, O’Driscoll, McInnes, Coppell, Gary Johnson, Wilson, Pulis...

Ok not "always", but my point is 3 of our last 6 managers have been unqualified hires inside the Bristol City "family", and we've only had one successful external hire (Cotterill) in the 11 years/7 hires since Gary Johnson. What do our peers at the top of the Championship do differently to find these up and coming managers elsewhere?

[BS4 on Tour...]

9 hours ago, Grey Fox said:

Ashton / WBA / Moore, get the connection

Yep, but Moore was a West Brom player for three of the years that Ashton was apparently employed by the Baggies - not sure how that would have convinced Ashton of Moore’s management prowess. And no-one knows if they even knew each other that well at the time, do players really have that much to do with non-descript ‘suits’ at their clubs? Who knows ...

[Phileas Fogg]

17 minutes ago, Taz said:

Knowing the board, it will be someone from League 1 or below. If the setup is not going to change (transfers, Ashton etc), then expect a younger guy with little backbone.

What does intrigue me, is after SL's interview, you get the impression that he's taken the finger off the pulse a bit, and is now ready to become involved more as his incompetent son and Mr Buzzword have royally messed this up with Holdens appointment. With that in mind, we all know Steve likes a name, as well as making people sit up and go "oh, so and so have gone to Bristol City. I didn't see that coming". The thing is, unless he's going to reign Ashton's involvement in a bit, no "name" will want to work alongside him.

Bilic, Jokanovic, McClaren (who is working as technical director at Derby), won't have the overall say that they would want. Lampard is unrealistic (although it wouldn't surprise me if we went there and tried), Cook has already ruled himself out in the summer, and Howe I just can't see happening.

People are mentioning Ainsworth, is there really anything there to suggest he could do a decent job higher up? Wycombe are rooted to the bottom of the table, yes they're playing decent enough football, but to be honest most teams compared to us recently would look like Barcelona!! Is it the leather jacket and "rock band" thing?

Mark Robins could be a realistic name, but again, has never really done much as a manager at this level above mid table. 

Someone like Pearson is not going to come in as they'll rock the boat too much. 

Neil at Preston, they're not overly attractive (again, we're far from at the moment), but they are consistent and hard to beat.

Monk, seems to float around the league when clubs are looking around, again nothing spectacular.

Mark Hughes has been mentioned before, most likely tongue in cheek, but usually goes for the lower Prem clubs when they're desperate. Would be interesting, ticks the "name" box, has experience above and was a hugely respected player - something Little Lee and "Deano" never were. Would divide opinion, but may turn us around. Financially out of our reach though.

As for finances, I think that is what is going to dictate the next appointment. We've had the "experiments and projects", had the cheap internal appointments, I honestly don't see how the board (mainly Steve) can afford to lose face again and not push the boat out a bit. The players are clearly not responding at the moment, so someone needs to come in quickly and sort that issue out.

I honestly can't call it, but they can't afford to take 6 weeks and appoint Simpson again. This appointment has to be right, has to get the fanbase largely on side (you'll never please everyone), but also realise we are not as attractive as we were in the summer. Damaged goods so to speak. We'll either have someone in within a week, or it will go 3 or 4 weeks. If it is the latter, I worry it will be too late for us as we're on a downward slide. Also if Simpson or Downing are appointed, even if it is until the end of the season, then things are going to get ugly quick, in more ways than one.

This appointment cannot afford to be wrong.

Well thought out post.

I think it’s very likely we will waste time looking into a Lampard or Howe only to be ultimately turned down. I expect that to happen actually.

The mood of the fans is against them and they know this. As it’s renewal time they’ll take heed of that so I’m confident they won’t appoint from within or go for someone like Appleton.

I think a ‘name’ like Hughes is a reasonable suggestion as to who they might go for.

[East Londoner]

3 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

The morning after the night before and I’ve got more questions than answers.

The main question for me is, do they think Holden was just a hiccup - we’ve lost our captain overboard, but the admiral says keep the ship on the same heading.....or is it time for an about turn?

The owner has a list from the summer, which may have changed a bit in terms of availability - but if he thinks we’ve still got the squad and the right structure, expect an Appleton or similar. If that happens - MA’s feet are well and truly under the table and we go again.

If the owner thinks, or is starting to think to need to look deeper than just the head coach - we may well see a stop gap before a re-think in the summer. Expect caretaker Simmo or perhaps even an expensive short term deal for a Pearson type.

For what it’s worth, IMO the issues are wider than the head coach, there is enough evidence for it, enough noise about it and enough comments in the press and enough underachieving at the club now that surely SL, intelligent man that he is, will see we can’t just carry on as we were, business as usual, but with an Appleton or Moore.

Wait to the summer, re-structure the recruitment, strip out the dead wood in the squad and then we might see a Cook or even Howe. 

The more i think about it the more Holden sounds like he was a covid appointment. I don’t think the club actually spent six weeks making up their mind, instead they were holding off as long as they could hoping that things would open up and the finances wouldn’t take as much of a hit.

Now it feels like when SOD was sacked and Cotts appointed, there’s a need for some experience and if that means having a manager rather than a head coach then so be it 

[BS4 on Tour...]

9 hours ago, bs22 red said:

Nigel Pearson 

A fair few mentions of Nigel Pearson on various threads - but he was pretty ill for most of last year and may not have fully recovered yet so who knows if he’s ready to be up for the chaos that is the championship?

Here’s some details ... 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12124344/nigel-pearson-my-battle-against-covid-19-leaving-watford-and-desire-to-return-to-the-game

[Bris Red]

7 minutes ago, walnutroof said:

The more i think about it the more Holden sounds like he was a covid appointment. I don’t think the club actually spent six weeks making up their mind, instead they were holding off as long as they could hoping that things would open up and the finances wouldn’t take as much of a hit.

Now it feels like when SOD was sacked and Cotts appointed, there’s a need for some experience and if that means having a manager rather than a head coach then so be it 

To be honest that is a good comparison - it does feel like 2013 again but fast forward 7 years with a new stadium and training ground and with established championships status on the line we are looking for our championship Cott’s equivalent.

Experience is needed now more than ever, we are basically looking at shoring up the team and getting 3 wins to secure safety. Its more than doable for the right man IMO.

[BS4 on Tour...]

13 minutes ago, tin said:

Ticks the name box and is a friend of Ashton. I could see this happening, but his career is heading south. He's (Mark Hughes) done nothing since leaving Man City 12 years' ago. 

.... except taking Fulham to an 8th placed finish in the premier league and Stoke to three consecutive 9th placed finishes in the premier league ...

[Wrongagain]

10 minutes ago, Red Zeppelin said:

Ok not "always", but my point is 3 of our last 6 managers have been unqualified hires inside the Bristol City "family", and we've only had one successful external hire (Cotterill) in the 11 years/7 hires since Gary Johnson. What do our peers at the top of the Championship do differently to find these up and coming managers elsewhere?

Real Managers will not work under the rule of a CEO like Ashton - the change we need is for the CEO to manage the day to day running of the business that is BCFC and for the Manager to run all things football.

Imagine running a pub and having to ask the brewery if it’s ok to change a barrel - that’s what Holden had to do!

[Alessandro]

6 minutes ago, walnutroof said:

The more i think about it the more Holden sounds like he was a covid appointment. I don’t think the club actually spent six weeks making up their mind, instead they were holding off as long as they could hoping that things would open up and the finances wouldn’t take as much of a hit.

Now it feels like when SOD was sacked and Cotts appointed, there’s a need for some experience and if that means having a manager rather than a head coach then so be it 

I know this has been a theory of a few people. I’m not so sure, but it may well be right.
 

Firstly it suggests they have some clever masterplan and I don’t think they’re capable of that.

Secondly if that was the case do you not think they’d have tried to hung onto Holden for a little bit longer? Try and nick a win against Barnsley then see it out till the summer.

The upheaval of his sacking is massive. Not just a new manager, but potentially new coaches and other back room staff, depending on who comes in.

I’m fascinated to see what they do next.

[cidered abroad]

33 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

I don't know why people don't think Eddie Howe would consider the job. Not because I think we're particularly attractive right now, but because Bournemouth is just about commutable for him and after his experience at Burnley, it's quite clear that he doesn't want to move from the South Coast. I also think that the Lansdowns may have learned something from the Hughton debacle and that they may be prepared to make some structural changes for the right candidate, even if they won't go as far as getting rid of Ashton

If I remember correctly, Eddie Howe resigned from Burnley because his father died. He wanted to be near to his mother who lived at that time either in or near Bournemouth.

[the1stknowle]

28 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Danny Cowley being a 4231 guy. He liked Walker to play on the shoulder at Lincoln.

Might be the man who will get the best out of Wells if that's how he likes to play

 

I like the Cowleys. Not sure it will be popular appointment but with the jobs they've had, they've done just about as well as its possible to do. 

On unrelated note, two things from the SL interview, which I thought were really telling:

1. He's worried about relegation so I think they will try and make a mid-season appointment  (if they can) rather than a placeholer.

2. This will depend on the candidates available/willing but I think the success in rugby is now really playing on his mind and he might try and copy that model and go bigger than normal. 

[tin]

1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

.... except taking Fulham to an 8th placed finish in the premier league and Stoke to three consecutive 9th placed finishes in the premier league ...

Fair points, I stand corrected. Hughes doesn't feel like the right fit for me (not that it matters!)

[the1stknowle]

13 minutes ago, walnutroof said:

The more i think about it the more Holden sounds like he was a covid appointment. I don’t think the club actually spent six weeks making up their mind, instead they were holding off as long as they could hoping that things would open up and the finances wouldn’t take as much of a hit.

Now it feels like when SOD was sacked and Cotts appointed, there’s a need for some experience and if that means having a manager rather than a head coach then so be it 

I just think he might have interviewed really well and the people in charge of the process got caught up in the interview being all important. 

That said, Covid and the uncertainty it creates are everything at the moment and have been for a year so it must have figured into their thinking in some way.

[Roadrunner]

Going back before Dean was appointed i put forward Gus Poyet name, I see on Sky he is their in the odds at 25/1. Next to him Harry Redknapp a big name as someone said Steve likes to be associated with a big name. Who knows, but he better be on the ball this week and not leave it to Ashton.

[The Bard]

6 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

I like the Cowleys. Not sure it will be popular appointment but with the jobs they've had, they've done just about as well as its possible to do. 

On unrelated note, two things from the SL interview, which I thought were really telling:

1. He's worried about relegation so I think they will try and make a mid-season appointment  (if they can) rather than a placeholer.

2. This will depend on the candidates available/willing but I think the success in rugby is now really playing on his mind and he might try and copy that model and go bigger than normal. 

If he's using Rugby as the model then great.  He appointed an extremely strong minded and charismatic coach who wanted control of everything and got it.  

Maybe, but maybe he now feels secure enough with the club's instrastructure to allow someone the power they need to succeed.

[Bobbie]

Don’t see why we are such a bad proposition to potential managers. We have a newly developed stadium, brand new training facilities, an owner that will give you time and back you know the transfer market.

The role of Mark Ashton is blown out of all proportion by many I feel. I think if a new manager demanded their own scouting system/control of transfers they would be given it, within budget constraints. 
 

Or am I being very naive? 

[Dolman_Stand]

1 minute ago, Bobbie said:

Don’t see why we are such a bad proposition to potential managers. We have a newly developed stadium, brand new training facilities, an owner that will give you time and back you know the transfer market.

The role of Mark Ashton is blown out of all proportion by many I feel. I think if a new manager demanded their own scouting system/control of transfers they would be given it, within budget constraints. 
 

Or am I being very naive? 

100% agree with all of this

[Shtanley]

Would Cook work with Ashton under the current "system"? 

Ryan Lowe would be alright, just signed a 3 year deal though. 

If we're looking at a foreign coach I wonder if we'll regret not considering Valerien Ismael in the summer.

[East Londoner]

2 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I know this has been a theory of a few people. I’m not so sure, but it may well be right.
 

Firstly it suggests they have some clever masterplan and I don’t think they’re capable of that.

Secondly if that was the case do you not think they’d have tried to hung onto Holden for a little bit longer? Try and nick a win against Barnsley then see it out till the summer.

The upheaval of his sacking is massive. Not just a new manager, but potentially new coaches and other back room staff, depending on who comes in.

I’m fascinated to see what they do next.

If anything it would show there was no master plan other than to try and limit the financial losses and hope for the best, which is totally understandable if you’re the one looking at losing millions although it now looks a false economy. And in fairness had the owner just come out and said that rather than stating we needed to be in the premier league as soon as possible Holden may not have been under as much pressure from the fan base.

As for your second point relegation would be a even bigger financial disaster as well as undoing a lot of the good work that’s taken place in the last 7 years and there’s still time for someone coming in to do avoid that scenario. Which is why it does feel very similar to when Cotts was appointed as he was exactly what the club needed at that time although it went against the long term vision of how the club wanted to operate

[2015]

The positive is, when we get a new Manager in is that we have a whole host of players OOC this Summer. He can assess the players he doesn't need and who he can try to get rid of. 
We have a massive Summer ahead, kind of like make or break really, providing we don't go down.

[Alessandro]

1 minute ago, walnutroof said:

If anything it would show there was no master plan other than to try and limit the financial losses and hope for the best, which is totally understandable if you’re the one looking at losing millions although it now looks a false economy. And in fairness had the owner just come out and said that rather than stating we needed to be in the premier league as soon as possible Holden may not have been under as much pressure from the fan base.

As for your second point relegation would be a even bigger financial disaster as well as undoing a lot of the good work that’s taken place in the last 7 years and there’s still time for someone coming in to do avoid that scenario. Which is why it does feel very similar to when Cotts was appointed as he was exactly what the club needed at that time although it went against the long term vision of how the club wanted to operate

Yep agree, it's a mess. That's why I hope, as per my earlier post and what you're saying here, what happens is we see that needed change behind the scenes, not just in the dug out.