Who is available? genuine options. Who's your realistic next HC

[Finley_Smith10]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Gregor saying the 3 early names he’s aware of are;

Paul Cook (Unemployed)

Michael Appleton (Lincoln)

Russell Martin (MK Dons)

Ideally after someone with experience apparently. Didn’t sound anyone out whilst Holden was here (which demonstrates a lack of due diligence to me).

I know very little about Russell Martin but seeing him interviewed he fits the ‘articulate’ ‘good human’ ‘media friendly’ mould of a younger manager.

 

Lincoln top of the league with Appleton, probs wouldn’t move cause chance of a promotion on his CV.

gregor said about experience yet mentioned Russel Martin whose 35 and only managed Mk Dons

Paul cook, experienced, 3 promotions and managed in our league.

seems a no brainer but we all know what’s gonna happen 

[robin_unreliant]

Just now, Finley_Smith10 said:

Lincoln top of the league with Appleton, probs wouldn’t move cause chance of a promotion on his CV.

gregor said about experience yet mentioned Russel Martin whose 35 and only managed Mk Dons

Paul cook, experienced, 3 promotions and managed in our league.

seems a no brainer but we all know what’s gonna happen 

Yeah - welcome to Ashton's mate. 

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

Lincoln top of the league with Appleton, probs wouldn’t move cause chance of a promotion on his CV.

gregor said about experience yet mentioned Russel Martin whose 35 and only managed Mk Dons

Paul cook, experienced, 3 promotions and managed in our league.

seems a no brainer but we all know what’s gonna happen 

They’d love to appoint someone like Martin. He seems like another Lee Johnson type but with more humility and self awareness. 

In fairness, he seems very bright and articulate and has got MK Dons playing good football. Not the time for that sort of ‘project’ appointment though I don’t think.

[Finley_Smith10]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

They’d love to appoint someone like Martin. He seems like another Lee Johnson type but with more humility and self awareness. 

In fairness, he seems very bright and articulate and has got MK Dons playing good football. Not the time for that sort of ‘project’ appointment though I don’t think.

Agree, need someone who can come in steady the ship, get us organised and has that championship experience. I just got the hope that with season ticket sales fast approaching they have to get it right and fans have to be excited by it

[alexukhc]

Russell Martin is assisted by Luke Williams, remember when Steve L said he was our long term next manager after Lee? Yeaaaaa

[Red white and red]

All of the names mentioned on here sound fantastic. However, as we all know, the next ‘Head coach’ will be someone who is prepared to ‘fall in line’.

The Lansdown’s will not go anywhere near anybody who dares question the regime, or demands ownership of player recruitment and scouting. Mark Ashton is here to stay, so he will need to be allowed to interfere with recruitment etc. That rules out any ‘manager’ who is the slightest bit bolshy. No self respecting man who wants to control everything, will be prepared to work under the current structure, why would they?

As before, the new appointment will be underwhelming, won’t inspire the fans but will continue to be the ‘best candidate for the job’. May as well churn out the same statement as last time, just put a line through Dean Holden’s name. 

*Add new name here*

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

52 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Read 'The Nowhere Men' by Michael Calvin.

It's a book about old school scouting and the amateurs, the @Harry's of this world, who spend their own time and money travelling miles and miles on wet weekday evenings to watch game after game in the hope of unearthing up and coming players (ironically the central character is Gary Johnson's uncle!)

Towards the end, the Lansdowns are quoted as saying they don't trust the old school scouting system and want to try a new approach involving laptops and stats.

The book came out in 2014,so let's say it was written in 2013.

So the Lansdowns had a big downer on old school scouting even before Cotts and Keith Burt tried to railroad through the signings of Gray, Maguire, Gayle.

That's why we've got Ashton - someone the owner trusts to spend his money wisely, someone who will identify players through stats and then go after the ones Lansdown deems affordable.

 Imo, it would take a massive volte face  for Lansdown to ever again allow a manager/coach run own recruiting alongside a chief scout independent of Ashton. I just can't see it happening, no matter how bad the situation.        

No apostrophe in @Harrys, I believe. Otherwise, it's Harry's what? 

Phillip Larkin would've learned you this, if you'd have popped into the library instead of going to watch Hull Kingston Rovers (or was it the other lot?)

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

32 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

GJ and Cotts - obviously excellent appointments.

Coppell and SoD - very good appointments on paper, didn't work out. 

McInnes - Interesting appointment. Up and comer. And in fairness to SL, he pulled plug on it quicker than he would normally so clearly realised something was off. 

Millen, Tins, Holden - fair enough although first season under Tins was at times pretty good. The succession from within is a weakness - SL seems to want it to happen but it's something you need to plan for well in advance and I don't think we've done that. 

LJ - seems to be the big divider on here and each fan has their own view but for me he was a really good appointment that progressed club, had excellent eye for player and gave us progress and some really good moments. Was right time to leave but he should be proud of what he did here and I hope he smashes it at Sunderland. 

Anyway, that's where my optimism (such that it is - more lack of pessimism) comes from. 

 

Sorry but Cotts wasn't Lansdown.

I'll give you Gary Johnson - and we're in a similar pickle now, albeit at a higher level, and I think we need a bit of Gary's no-nonsense, forthright management style, certainly between now and the end of the season

Coppell was a complete and utter disaster. McInnes also - appalling recruitment. Holden - make that 3 disasters.

SO'D full of good ideas but ones he couldn't turn into results on the pitch - Lansdown wanted promotion and SO'D showed no signs of delivering that.

Millen and Tinnion fine as a safe pair of hands in the short term but simply not the right type of personality - they are life's No.2s, lieutenants (decent ones) not leaders (see their subsequent careers as proof) - to take us forward long term

LJ - let's not start! - so leaving him aside and Cotts who doesn't count as someone identified by Lansdown, I make that 3 utter disasters and 3 failures from 7 appointments   

So your conclusion that we should be optimistic because Lansdown has a success rate of 1 out of 7 is beyond baffling.

Personally, I think that's grounds for pessimism not optimism. Unless, like I said, you think the law of averages means he has to get another appointment right, eventually. 

[the1stknowle]

2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Sorry but Cotts wasn't Lansdown.

I'll give you Gary Johnson - and we're in a similar pickle now, albeit at a higher level, and I think we need a bit of Gary's no-nonsense, forthright management style, certainly between now and the end of the season

Coppell was a complete and utter disaster. McInnes also - appalling recruitment. Holden - make that 3 disasters.

SO'D full of good ideas but ones he couldn't turn into results on the pitch - Lansdown wanted promotion and SO'D showed no signs of delivering that.

Millen and Tinnion fine as a safe pair of hands in the short term but simply not the right type of personality - they are life's No.2s, lieutenants (decent ones) not leaders (see their subsequent careers as proof) - to take us forward long term

LJ - let's not start! - so leaving him aside and Cotts who doesn't count as someone identified by Lansdown, I make that 3 utter disasters and 3 failures from 7 appointments   

So your conclusion that we should be optimistic because Lansdown has a success rate of 1 out of 7 is beyond baffling.

Personally, I think that's grounds for pessimism not optimism. Unless, like I said, you think the law of averages means he has to get another appointment right, eventually. 

Like I say, it’s an opinion. I have different view to you. My conclusion isn’t we should all be optimistic. It’s just an opinion that I personally am not as pessimistic as some for the reasons I set out. 

Did you think coppell was disaster at time? I remember that appointment being met with only positivity. 

Why do you say cotts wasn’t Lansdown? 
 

 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Read 'The Nowhere Men' by Michael Calvin.

It's a book about old school scouting and the amateurs, the @Harry's of this world, who spend their own time and money travelling miles and miles on wet weekday evenings to watch game after game in the hope of unearthing up and coming players (ironically the central character is Gary Johnson's uncle!)

Towards the end, the Lansdowns are quoted as saying they don't trust the old school scouting system and want to try a new approach involving laptops and stats.

The book came out in 2014,so let's say it was written in 2013.

So the Lansdowns had a big downer on old school scouting even before Cotts and Keith Burt tried to railroad through the signings of Gray, Maguire, Gayle.

That's why we've got Ashton - someone the owner trusts to spend his money wisely, someone who will identify players through stats and then go after the ones Lansdown deems affordable.

 Imo, it would take a massive volte face  for Lansdown to ever again allow a manager/coach run own recruiting alongside a chief scout independent of Ashton. I just can't see it happening, no matter how bad the situation.        

If I recall correctly, I think there is reference made in that book of our ex head scout Russ Richardson, who was sacked by Ashton in 2012, and his interesting views on our CEO. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

 

Personally, I think that's grounds for pessimism not optimism. Unless, like I said, you think the law of averages means he has to get another appointment right, eventually. 

This is why Lansdown should be hiring and firing so much more! Three or four times a season! Like Leeds and Chelsea. 

With such a poor strike rate, Steve needs to get to that one in seven in two seasons, not two decades. Hire and fire more until he gets lucky again.

All this "good owner" gives managers time etc, rubbish. Too nice, too soft. Need to be more Psycho/ruthless.

Copy Leeds: hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, f ... Bielsa! Bingo! Stick!

We've just got to "Dave Hockaday" so we've got a few to go yet (unless Deano was "Heckingbottom"?)

 

[sh1t_ref_again]

58 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Gregor saying the 3 early names he’s aware of are;

Paul Cook (Unemployed)

Michael Appleton (Lincoln)

Russell Martin (MK Dons)

Ideally after someone with experience apparently. Didn’t sound anyone out whilst Holden was here (which demonstrates a lack of due diligence to me).

I know very little about Russell Martin but seeing him interviewed he fits the ‘articulate’ ‘good human’ ‘media friendly’ mould of a younger manager.

 

I found the last line "don't speak to people behind the head coach's back", rather strange, wonder what was meant by this?

[KegCity]

To be fair to Appleton his Lincoln side are flying at the moment, doubt he'd want to leave so close to the end of the season mind. Cook is the only one of those 3 that interests me.

[The Bard]

1 minute ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

I found the last line "don't speak to people behind the head coach's back", rather strange, wonder what was meant by this?

Means they sack then look for a replacement rather than finding the replacement first.

[sh1t_ref_again]

1 minute ago, The Bard said:

Means they sack then look for a replacement rather than finding the replacement first.

Yes with you now, makes sense

[Merrick's Marvels]

24 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

No apostrophe in @Harrys, I believe. Otherwise, it's Harry's what? 

Phillip Larkin would've learned you this, if you'd have popped into the library instead of going to watch Hull Kingston Rovers (or was it the other lot?)

 

Can't argue with any of that.

(It was the other lot.)

[Merrick's Marvels]

9 minutes ago, Harry said:

If I recall correctly, I think there is reference made in that book of our ex head scout Russ Richardson, who was sacked by Ashton in 2012, and his interesting views on our CEO. 

Russ Richardson is in the book but, like you, can't recall if he comments on Ashton. 

BCFC get mentioned a few times, none of them complementary!

[RedRock]

‘Nobody lined up, Bristol City don’t speak to people behind the Head Coaches back’. 

Ho hum. Very honourable. Unlike many Clubs who announce their appointments mid-morning or even an hour after the previous incumbent has left. This sort of ‘being nice’ is why we always come near top of the fair play league too. 
 

Regrettably, it’s on the pitch that counts. If a previous Head Coach was measuring grass to gain an advantage over opponents we sure need to raise our game in the speed of getting Holden’s replacement in.  

 

 

[Harry]

1 minute ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Russ Richardson is in the book but, like you, can't recall if he comments on Ashton. 

BCFC get mentioned a few times, none of them complementary!

I don’t think he specifically names Ashton, I believe he refers to his time here and when he was let go. And that was Ashton’s decision. He isn’t complementary about him at all. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

15 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

Like I say, it’s an opinion. I have different view to you. My conclusion isn’t we should all be optimistic. It’s just an opinion that I personally am not as pessimistic as some for the reasons I set out. 

Did you think coppell was disaster at time? I remember that appointment being met with only positivity. 

Why do you say cotts wasn’t Lansdown? 
 

 

Keith Dawe selected Cotterill

It's nothing to do with what fans thought about Coppell's appointment - it's about what Coppell actually achieved. On that basis how the fk! you can think he wasn't a disaster is beyond me

And even if I was minded to allow you Cotts and LJ, which I'm not, Lansdown's success rate is 3 from 9 - still not grounds for optimism

Something tells me I'm wasting my time here, so have a nice day in your weird, optimistic, delusional world. Good afternoon.  

 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 hour ago, the1stknowle said:

GJ and Cotts - obviously excellent appointments.

Coppell and SoD - very good appointments on paper, didn't work out. 

McInnes - Interesting appointment. Up and comer. And in fairness to SL, he pulled plug on it quicker than he would normally so clearly realised something was off. 

Millen, Tins, Holden - fair enough although first season under Tins was at times pretty good. The succession from within is a weakness - SL seems to want it to happen but it's something you need to plan for well in advance and I don't think we've done that. 

LJ - seems to be the big divider on here and each fan has their own view but for me he was a really good appointment that progressed club, had excellent eye for player and gave us progress and some really good moments. Was right time to leave but he should be proud of what he did here and I hope he smashes it at Sunderland. 

Anyway, that's where my optimism (such that it is - more lack of pessimism) comes from. 

I'm not sure the whole promotion from within is a bad thing, I think it only works though if your backroom staff have had some experience of managing though, so not sure its realistic that it will work every-time, Millen for the most part was a great caretaker and assistant but a poor manager over time.  I also think it takes a bit of time for the new coaching style to take effect so the good start this season might very well have been a combination of things not all Holden.  

[Cardy]

I think Ashton probably needs to stay at the club but just concentrate on the corporate / legal stuff which he is clearly good at. I think Lansdown probably sees this as Ashton’s greatest strength anyway.

Because the football operations issues are currently so vast we probably need a DOF for the next couple of years to re-evaluate our ways of working in terms of scouting, recruiting, coaching & fitness.

Working to the DOF we need an experienced & respected Manager / Head Coach with promotions on his CV who would hopefully bring decent coaches with him.

I know the above is way over the cost of the current structure but we have seen where the cheap option has now landed us again. Considering we are playing multiple players in excess of £20k per week a proper investment in their ‘Gaffers’ has never been more important or necessary if we actually want to get value for money out of our playing assets both on the pitch & commercially.

[SecretSam]

I remember way back when Pearson was let go by Leicester and we were looking for a manager, I recall him being interviewed by Pearce on Radio 5 who suggested that City fans were begging for him to come to BS3.

He'd do.

Or Cook.

Not Howe, not sure he's "tough" enough?!?!?!?! Also only really achieved success at one club, failed at Burnley (although, TBF, achieved a lot at Bournemouth!)

Just now, Cardy said:

 

I think Ashton probably needs to stay at the club but just concentrate on the corporate / legal stuff which he is clearly good at. I think Lansdown probably sees this as Ashton’s greatest strength anyway.

Because the football operations issues are currently so vast we probably need a DOF for the next couple of years to re-evaluate our ways of working in terms of scouting, recruiting, coaching & fitness.

Working to the DOF we need an experienced & respected Manager / Head Coach with promotions on his CV who would hopefully bring decent coaches with him.

I know the above is way over the cost of the current structure but we have seen where the cheap option has now landed us again. Considering we are playing multiple players in excess of £20k per week a proper investment in their ‘Gaffers’ has never been more important or necessary if we actually want to get value for money out of our playing assets both on the pitch & commercially.

Absolutely - I suspect he's really good at the non-playing aspects, therefore needs his role revised not sacking.

[the1stknowle]

3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Keith Dawe selected Cotterill

It's nothing to do with what fans thought about Coppell's appointment - it's about what Coppell actually achieved. On that basis how the fk! you can think he wasn't a disaster is beyond me

And even if I was minded to allow you Cotts and LJ, which I'm not, Lansdown's success rate is 3 from 9 - still not grounds for optimism

Something tells me I'm wasting my time here, so have a nice day in your weird, optimistic, delusional world. Good afternoon.  

 

Think maybe read what I wrote about coppell. Not sure you’ve read it right. 
But we can leave it there if you like. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

8 minutes ago, Harry said:

I don’t think he specifically names Ashton, I believe he refers to his time here and when he was let go. And that was Ashton’s decision. He isn’t complementary about him at all. 

Gotcha. I couldn't recall Ashton's name coming up explicitly. I'll have to go back and re-read the bits about Richardson now you've pointed that out!   

[Merrick's Marvels]

29 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

This is why Lansdown should be hiring and firing so much more! Three or four times a season! Like Leeds and Chelsea. 

With such a poor strike rate, Steve needs to get to that one in seven in two seasons, not two decades. Hire and fire more until he gets lucky again.

All this "good owner" gives managers time etc, rubbish. Too nice, too soft. Need to be more Psycho/ruthless.

Copy Leeds: hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, fire; hire, f ... Bielsa! Bingo! Stick!

We've just got to "Dave Hockaday" so we've got a few to go yet (unless Deano was "Heckingbottom"?)

 

Keep buying those lottery tickets, Steve, you'll win it one day!

[Kid in the Riot]

21 minutes ago, RedRock said:

‘Nobody lined up, Bristol City don’t speak to people behind the Head Coaches back’. 

Ho hum. Very honourable. Unlike many Clubs who announce their appointments mid-morning or even an hour after the previous incumbent has left. This sort of ‘being nice’ is why we always come near top of the fair play league too. 
 

Regrettably, it’s on the pitch that counts. If a previous Head Coach was measuring grass to gain an advantage over opponents we sure need to raise our game in the speed of getting Holden’s replacement in.  

In fairness, they're hardly going to tell Gregor if they have been lining up DH's replacement over the past few days. SL has been ruthless before, SOD was appointed within 24 hours of McInnes getting the sack. 

Regards timing of this appointment, surely we are looking at getting someone in by the end of next week at the latest. No time to waste with games coming thick and fast.

[LondonBristolian]

10 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

In fairness, they're hardly going to tell Gregor if they have been lining up DH's replacement over the past few days. SL has been ruthless before, SOD was appointed within 24 hours of McInnes getting the sack. 

Regards timing of this appointment, surely we are looking at getting someone in by the end of next week at the latest. No time to waste with games coming thick and fast.

I agree with this.

I think the major decision/discussion at the moment will be whether we appoint a permanent manager immediately or whether we appoint someone until the end of the season  in the hope or expectation of better options then...

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Cardy said:

 

I think Ashton probably needs to stay at the club but just concentrate on the corporate / legal stuff which he is clearly good at. I think Lansdown probably sees this as Ashton’s greatest strength anyway.

Because the football operations issues are currently so vast we probably need a DOF for the next couple of years to re-evaluate our ways of working in terms of scouting, recruiting, coaching & fitness.

The problem with a narcissist is that they wouldn’t take too happily to a reduction in responsibility. Too much of a hit to their ego. 
No way in the world does Ashton continue here under a different role. It’s all or nothing for narcissists. 

[tin]

Who do we reckon are the most realistic of the overseas candidates?

• Bruno Lage - ex-Benfica, twice assistant to Carlos Carvahal at Sheff Weds and Swansea
• Marc van Bommel - ex-PSV boss (averaged 2 points per game), former Dutch international, played for Barca, Bayern, Milan, horrible bastard
• David Wagner - got Huddersfield up, wretched at Schalke
• Tim Walter - averaged 1.9 points per game at Stuttgart, left-field shout