Kempson Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Whilst I agree he has dropped the ball between Lj and Holden, I'm yet to see any hard evidence that he is in fact ruining the club, or taking over the top control of everything. I dont know if I've missed something, or if I'm supposed to come to this conclusion myself based of media snippets. I wouldnt say I'm backing him as the change of manager this time is under even more scrutiny than the last, and I think if he is to carry on in his post, he needs to get this situation under control. What I would ask is, in regard to him having full control of transfers, control over team selection/tactics etc. Where is the evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kempson said: Whilst I agree he has dropped the ball between Lj and Holden, I'm yet to see any hard evidence that he is in fact ruining the club, or taking over the top control of everything. I dont know if I've missed something, or if I'm supposed to come to this conclusion myself based of media snippets. I wouldnt say I'm backing him as the change of manager this time is under even more scrutiny than the last, and I think if he is to carry on in his post, he needs to get this situation under control. What I would ask is, in regard to him having full control of transfers, control over team selection/tactics etc. Where is the evidence? Do you read much of the forum and particularly the numerous long analytical posts of Ashton’s work ? SL is in Guernsey Jl is in Bermuda and has been as I understand for ‘a while’ and not just a visit Who do you think is running the Club ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I’m not feeling the slightest bit of relief from Dean Holden’s sacking, because the root of the problem is still here at the club. Who knows whether Ashton is just a mouthpiece for SL, or if SL has largely handed over the general running of the club to him, but whichever it is, Ashton comes over as a slimey bullshitter and I really can’t see any chance of any improvement until he’s gone. I think what happens now is critical for SL. I think patience has finally run out with him and rather than the head coach getting the shit, he could find the flack aimed derectly at him if he doesn’t sort this mess out. He may own the club, but there are thousands of fans who have a huge amount of emotional investment in this club too and aren’t going to take it well if he dicks around with yet another crap appointment. His ‘masterplan’ for this club now looks dead in the water and we’re turning into a laughing stock. He’s got some massive decisions to make on how to turn it round and showing MA would be a great start, but bet it won’t happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 44 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: Would love to hear Geoff Twentyman get stuck into him again. If he doesn’t get his P45 () I cant wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midlands Robin Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I'm posting this at 01:20 in the morning and "Mark Ashton" is trending at number 16 on Twitter. Fame at last Marky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I don't know Mark Ashton personally, but he certainly comes across as a bit of a slime ball. Doesn't seem to be a really nice human to me and possibly not even a human. He was responsible for the appointment of the head coach and his assistance and also the shambles of a sports conditioning team appear to fail miserably and have a history of doing so. A complete clear out may be the only way to resolve this and Ashton should probably be first on the list of those to receive a P45. The problem of course is finding the right people to replace them and you can't dispose of the whole management team until you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said: I don't know Mark Ashton personally, but he certainly comes across as a bit of a slime ball. Doesn't seem to be a really nice human to me and possibly not even a human. He was responsible for the appointment of the head coach and his assistance and also the shambles of a sports conditioning team appear to fail miserably and have a history of doing so. A complete clear out may be the only way to resolve this and Ashton should probably be first on the list of those to receive a P45. The problem of course is finding the right people to replace them and you can't dispose of the whole management team until you have. Not sure how uncommon people like Ashton are in such positions in football. Could it to some extent be a case of- if replaced: "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"? The fact that his peers ie fellow Championship CEOs voted him as one of the Club Reps for the Championship must say something- not a defence of him but clearly his currency in football isn't uncommon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Not sure how uncommon people like Ashton are in such positions in football. Could it to some extent be a case of- if replaced: "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"? Yeah, it's a worry, isn't it. I really hope we might find a nicer human though - they must exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kempson Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said: Do you read much of the forum and particularly the numerous long analytical posts of Ashton’s work ? SL is in Guernsey Jl is in Bermuda and has been as I understand for ‘a while’ and not just a visit Who do you think is running the Club ? Well I know Mark Ashton is running the club, I mean where is the evidence that nothing will change as long as he remains? I get the he can be not the most likeable person, but I'm curious as to why the prevailing opinion of him seems to be not just low, but off the bottom of the scale. Edit: to answer your question I flick through my fair amount, I've never actually seen any hard evidence of Ashtons work, possibly my oversight in not reading enough/or the right posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamite Red Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 13 hours ago, Kempson said: Well I know Mark Ashton is running the club, I mean where is the evidence that nothing will change as long as he remains? I get the he can be not the most likeable person, but I'm curious as to why the prevailing opinion of him seems to be not just low, but off the bottom of the scale. Edit: to answer your question I flick through my fair amount, I've never actually seen any hard evidence of Ashtons work, possibly my oversight in not reading enough/or the right posts. His management of the club from everything through to the transfer policy and recruitment, contract renewals, scouting. His interaction with the fans for things such as ticket pricing for disabled has been appalling. The fans hate him. He has way to much of a remit especially with recruitment of players and suspect this is the reason why any credible manager is not interested in taking up the role hence we appoint yes men such as LJ and DH. He should have been sacked or pushed into role where he has less influence which infringes on the any credible manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 15 hours ago, Dynamite Red said: Remember this. Guilty as charged. His position is untenable isn't it? The Lansdown puppet looks a busted flush to me. 15 hours ago, spudski said: Going on that interview...he hangs himself. Saying convinced they've made the right decision and that others were suitable shows that his and the boards judgement, as well as SL'S...again...was wrong. Hung out to dry. They made a massive error. I'd respect them more if they admitted it. Criminal isn’t it. Awful judgement in hindsight (foresight from many - I accept I was hopeful). Lets not forget - over 10 suitable candidates, extensive conversations with 4 of them. Him and JL fooked up. One other key thing for me, talked about outstanding coaching attributes. Suggests to me they’ve not learned from Lee what the difference in role / responsibilities are between a coach and head-coach, and they needed to be looking beyond his coaching skill set (said this at the time). Being an outstanding human is a lovely quality, it’s not a head-coach, team picker, man-manager, system setter, recruitment skill though is it. Their lack of football wisdom shines through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Mad Red Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Very much cliché ridden, umbrella sound bite hyperbole showing no understanding of the requirements of what is needed on the training ground, in the dressing room or on the touchline, badges are a necessity, being a nice human being often is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 15 hours ago, Dynamite Red said: Remember this. Guilty as charged. His position is untenable isn't it? The Lansdown puppet looks a busted flush to me. He doesn't seem to know the difference between "vigorous" and "rigorous". And all these references to outstanding "human beings" are ridculous. It's not as if we've had any extra-terrestrial candidates. Or have we? Never mind Sport Science. Everything about us at the moment is like Science Fiction. Nanu nanu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: He doesn't seem to know the difference between "vigorous" and "rigorous". And all these references to outstanding "human beings" are ridculous. It's not as if we've had any extra-terrestrial candidates. Or have we? Never mind Sport Science. Everything about us at the moment is like Science Fiction. Nanu nanu. Someone must’ve used vigorous in a training course and he thought I’ll use....in fact I’ll use it every sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Criminal isn’t it. Awful judgement in hindsight (foresight from many - I accept I was hopeful). Lets not forget - over 10 suitable candidates, extensive conversations with 4 of them. Him and JL fooked up. One other key thing for me, talked about outstanding coaching attributes. Suggests to me they’ve not learned from Lee what the difference in role / responsibilities are between a coach and head-coach, and they needed to be looking beyond his coaching skill set (said this at the time). Being an outstanding human is a lovely quality, it’s not a head-coach, team picker, man-manager, system setter, recruitment skill though is it. Their lack of football wisdom shines through. It really is farcical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 32 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Criminal isn’t it. Awful judgement in hindsight (foresight from many - I accept I was hopeful). Lets not forget - over 10 suitable candidates, extensive conversations with 4 of them. Him and JL fooked up. One other key thing for me, talked about outstanding coaching attributes. Suggests to me they’ve not learned from Lee what the difference in role / responsibilities are between a coach and head-coach, and they needed to be looking beyond his coaching skill set (said this at the time). Being an outstanding human is a lovely quality, it’s not a head-coach, team picker, man-manager, system setter, recruitment skill though is it. Their lack of football wisdom shines through. Watching that interview actually has made me think that Holden wasn't Ashton's appointment. There a lot of the use of the word "we", the emphasis on it being a board decision, the fact he is taking about his qualities as a person and as a coach as a way of actually avoiding answering why he thinks he is the right man for the job plus the emphasis on the value of the process being thorough as a way of trying to justify the decision that was made. He comes across a Hell of a lot like what I'm used to a CEO or Senior Manager looking like when they are trying to sell staff members on the wisdom of a board decision that they've just spent an hour arguing against in private... 9 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Someone must’ve used vigorous in a training course and he thought I’ll use....in fact I’ll use it every sentence. That is the other thing - he's very much ensuring he sticks to a script and an official line. I get the impression he is ensuring the keeps himself on-message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 13 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Not sure how uncommon people like Ashton are in such positions in football. Could it to some extent be a case of- if replaced: "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"? The fact that his peers ie fellow Championship CEOs voted him as one of the Club Reps for the Championship must say something- not a defence of him but clearly his currency in football isn't uncommon. Yeah - he comes across to me a hell of a lot like a corporate CEO. I imagine he's not the world's most likeable or sincere individual but I don't really buy into the idea that he's particularly unique or any more of a barrier to us making an experienced appointment than the CEOs a manager would have to deal with at other clubs. Obviously some would prefer a structure where the manager ran all aspects of the football side but Mark Ashton has been brought in due to a board decision to have that structure. If he left, someone else would do the role instead. Personally I'd rather we brought in a specialist Director of football to oversee transfer policy, recruitment etc but, even then, they're going to have to report to the board. I think Ashton gets a lot of flak for what's actually board strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Criminal isn’t it. Awful judgement in hindsight (foresight from many - I accept I was hopeful). Lets not forget - over 10 suitable candidates, extensive conversations with 4 of them. Him and JL fooked up. One other key thing for me, talked about outstanding coaching attributes. Suggests to me they’ve not learned from Lee what the difference in role / responsibilities are between a coach and head-coach, and they needed to be looking beyond his coaching skill set (said this at the time). Being an outstanding human is a lovely quality, it’s not a head-coach, team picker, man-manager, system setter, recruitment skill though is it. Their lack of football wisdom shines through. Spot on Dave. I think they are blinded by this ‘Head Coach’ role. The sooner we get away from that and look for a ‘Manager’ the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Harry said: Spot on Dave. I think they are blinded by this ‘Head Coach’ role. The sooner we get away from that and look for a ‘Manager’ the better. I always liken it to the best salesman being promoted to sales manager. You take him away from doing what he does best, and give him a job he’s not got any skills for, apart from he understands what his team does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Harry said: Spot on Dave. I think they are blinded by this ‘Head Coach’ role. The sooner we get away from that and look for a ‘Manager’ the better. Could be the case but then again this could be the general direction of travel for football. With the result being in time, that those in management who liked things done the more common way a decade ago say, maybe 15-20 years let alone longer find their opportunities drying up at decent levels. Nothing obliging clubs to follow that model of course but it'll be interesting to see how it plays out over the next decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 16 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said: I don't know Mark Ashton personally, but he certainly comes across as a bit of a slime ball. Doesn't seem to be a really nice human to me and possibly not even a human. He's not. He's a "suit." And a "beard," looking at that video. More than enough to hang a man, in my book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topper 123 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 A lot of fans are having a go at mark Ashton without really knowing a lot about the bloke ,well let me put my 2 penny worth in , I was told ,a while back by a player within the club that Ashton will take this club down and I don’t mean relegation make your own minds up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topper 123 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 And we all know Ashton mate Appleton not exactly inspired choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 hours ago, LondonBristolian said: Watching that interview actually has made me think that Holden wasn't Ashton's appointment. There a lot of the use of the word "we", the emphasis on it being a board decision, the fact he is taking about his qualities as a person and as a coach as a way of actually avoiding answering why he thinks he is the right man for the job plus the emphasis on the value of the process being thorough as a way of trying to justify the decision that was made. He comes across a Hell of a lot like what I'm used to a CEO or Senior Manager looking like when they are trying to sell staff members on the wisdom of a board decision that they've just spent an hour arguing against in private... That is the other thing - he's very much ensuring he sticks to a script and an official line. I get the impression he is ensuring the keeps himself on-message. So if he wasn’t Ashton’s choice (and the endorsement of Ashton by Steve on Radio Bristol - despite the former’s questionable performance - might add weight to that theory), he didn’t appear to be Jon’s choice and then, Steve, with his Talksport interview clearly didn’t see Holden as an option either. So by deduction .... it must all be Maggie’s fault then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tts_city Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said: He's not. He's a "suit." And a "beard," looking at that video. More than enough to hang a man, in my book Not just any old beard, a dyed beard, vain ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Davefevs said: Someone must’ve used vigorous in a training course and he thought I’ll use....in fact I’ll use it every sentence. I think I have vigour mortis setting in, after listening to that oleaginous spunk bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 28 minutes ago, RedRock said: So if he wasn’t Ashton’s choice (and the endorsement of Ashton by Steve on Radio Bristol - despite the former’s questionable performance - might add weight to that theory), he didn’t appear to be Jon’s choice and then, Steve, with his Talksport interview clearly didn’t see Holden as an option either. So by deduction .... it must all be Maggie’s fault then. Now now, the club has a no blame culture. So it was the fans' fault then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 19 hours ago, Fuber said: I'm really mixed. He's, overall done good on the front of infrastructure, commercial revenue, sponsorship. Part of me feels LJ's 'clubs-in-bag' approach meant we simply bought in players (as requested) to allow different setups and counter the opposition - Ashton can only recruit based on the premise/requirements as detailed. The issue is that the debacle of the Holden appointment has severely smashed the remaining credibility among supporters including myself. I'd be interested to see how performs above a more experienced manager who can say 'No' to a signing. If it still fails - then that would be the final nail in the coffin. Very much agree with this. I don't think there's any prospect of SL getting rid of him, but I do hope he'll give him an ultimatum and a choice: if you stay its on the basis that you worry about the infrastructure and don't get involved in the footballing decisions. Take it or leave it. I get that as CEO he needs to front up those senior appointments - so I wouldn't necessarily blame him for the interviews etc - and what's he supposed to say? We think we've appointed the second best candidate? And as CEO, and as the person ultimately responsible for the finances, of course what any manager/head coach does will impact on that. But I agree with you as to how that needs to be set out in future, and maybe hasn't been to date. The manager (or new DOF role, whatever) has a budget, which includes ongoings and incomings, and whilst Ashton will do his best to get the incomings as cheaply as possible and make as much from the outgoings as possible, ultimately the manager gets to make the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tin Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 To answer the OP’s question: SL can expect little or no ROI on all of Ashton’s signings, possibly with the exception of Bentley. He has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 18 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said: Doesn't seem to be a really nice human to me and possibly not even a human. That might be the greatest hypothesis yet about MA. He is not human. Perhaps he is a Lizard a la the series V? Scaly mofo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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