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Anyone think DH was always a stop gap.....


extonsred

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No way. Wouldn’t have taken almost 2 months to get him in and wouldn’t have been sacked now if that were the case. 
 

Just doesn’t make sense for the club to take a hit on an entire season and be potentially 12 months behind our rivals in terms of coaching, recruitment etc. 

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18 minutes ago, extonsred said:

... . and City have a name lined up for the summer but not available now. Poor form threatened that and now stop gap needed to arrest decline as 'pencilled in' name would not want to come to Div 1 team. 

With the clowns that run our club not a chance. I must have been the only one who thought that they would have had lined up someone to replace Holden now. But in what could be a desperate fight for survival we have Holden's assistants to lead us. And the dreaded recruitment process begins. Having chosen Holden over a number of more experienced candidates last time you can't see a lot of them bothering to apply again.

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He was never planned to be the long term solution IMO, that much I think can be read from the contract length. Best case scenario, we had a great season and offered a longer, more lucrative contract in the summer. Worse case scenario, well we're at that Point now.

Do I think they were also erring on the side of caution with regards to seeing a longer term replacement become available during the course, or conclusion of this season, and then being stuck with Holden? Quite possibly.

Let's assume he was never sacked, and then in the summer for example, Daniel Farke became available (hypothetical question/example). Let's also presume that he was interested in the job here, do we stick with Holden on his multi year contract (assuming he had signed a 2-3 year contract instead) and his inexperience, or go with Farke who has already won promotion from this league, plays incredible football, and is a breath of fresh air? There's no choice is there.

Do I also think that Steve likes the idea of someone who has taken a year out of football and (going with the timescale) would be ready to come back into management this summer? I think he would love for Howe to be the next longterm manager, and try to emulate what he did with Bournemouth. Whether Howe would be interested is another question. 

So the question should be, do I think that we gave Holden a 1 year contract, using covid finances as a smokescreen, in the hope that we could tempt Eddie Howe this summer? Yes, quite possibly. Do I think he, or someone else was already lined up? No.

I'd be amazed if Steve hasn't been on the phone to Howe and his representatives already, as I truly believe he is the number 1 choice.

Would he come here and work alongside Ashton? That's another question entirely.

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27 minutes ago, extonsred said:

... . and City have a name lined up for the summer but not available now. Poor form threatened that and now stop gap needed to arrest decline as 'pencilled in' name would not want to come to Div 1 team. 

No.

If he was a stop-gap appointment, the board would/should've come out and cited the virus as a mitigating factor behind it. Instead, we got "he was the best candidate out of more than 80 applicants... PL is the goal... has to improve on last year's 12th-place finish" blah, blah, blah. 

The board cocked it up. 

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100% thought he was a stop gap, 1 year contract says it all. The gap has just been shorter than JL and the rest had hoped .

I think the other better managers that we interviewed would have wanted good paying lengthy contracts and a sizeable transfer budget to re build the team which we couldn't afford at the time. 

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I think it's plausible although a high risk strategy. What doesn't make sense is going through a 2 month recruitment process then appointing Holden. And on a 12 month basis. I've always thought he had either Cook or Howe as preferred but wait 12 months.

Probably cost cutting more likely though for 12 months. 

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29 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

So what you’re saying is that we had a stop gap but the stop gap failed to stop the gap and now we need a stop gap for the stop gap?

Is that what you’re saying?

I think he means like a night watchman in cricket, unfortunately Dean didn't keep his wicket intact until the end of play. :( 

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I don't think anyone was lined up but I suspect the plan was always to give it a season, hopefully get through COVID, and then review the situation then. I don't really buy into the idea there is a manager who has agreed to take charge in the summer. I can see the potential for it happening now - i.e. we make an appointment until the end of the season if there was a manager who wanted to see the season out with their current club - but I certainly don't buy into the case that was the thinking already.

I reckon, even with recent form, there'd been no serious consideration to making the change before Saturday. 

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We will never be completely sure but it is very much a possibility.
 

Financial Fair Play is based over 3 seasons and our heavy loss announced in 2018 drops off this year. Therefore, our spending was always restricted this season irrespective of whether we wanted to invest or not.

 

When you consider that Holden was only on a one year contract, it is a possibility that the appointment was made for this season only, knowing that the recruitment was restricted.

 

Sacking Holden now allows us to bring in a new manager after the transfer window has passed, meaning that any new manager cannot spend until the summer. Bringing in now gives the new manager an opportunity to assess the squad before the summer.

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38 minutes ago, Furious Custard said:

100% thought he was a stop gap, 1 year contract says it all. The gap has just been shorter than JL and the rest had hoped .

I think the other better managers that we interviewed would have wanted good paying lengthy contracts and a sizeable transfer budget to re build the team which we couldn't afford at the time. 

It was a stop gap after they realised nobody else wanted it but wasn’t intended at the start

 

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40 minutes ago, Taz said:

He was never planned to be the long term solution IMO, that much I think can be read from the contract length. Best case scenario, we had a great season and offered a longer, more lucrative contract in the summer. Worse case scenario, well we're at that Point now.

Do I think they were also erring on the side of caution with regards to seeing a longer term replacement become available during the course, or conclusion of this season, and then being stuck with Holden? Quite possibly.

Let's assume he was never sacked, and then in the summer for example, Daniel Farke became available (hypothetical question/example). Let's also presume that he was interested in the job here, do we stick with Holden on his multi year contract (assuming he had signed a 2-3 year contract instead) and his inexperience, or go with Farke who has already won promotion from this league, plays incredible football, and is a breath of fresh air? There's no choice is there.

Do I also think that Steve likes the idea of someone who has taken a year out of football and (going with the timescale) would be ready to come back into management this summer? I think he would love for Howe to be the next longterm manager, and try to emulate what he did with Bournemouth. Whether Howe would be interested is another question. 

So the question should be, do I think that we gave Holden a 1 year contract, using covid finances as a smokescreen, in the hope that we could tempt Eddie Howe this summer? Yes, quite possibly. Do I think he, or someone else was already lined up? No.

I'd be amazed if Steve hasn't been on the phone to Howe and his representatives already, as I truly believe he is the number 1 choice.

Would he come here and work alongside Ashton? That's another question entirely.

He wasn’t on a one year contract, it was a one year rolling contract.

Big difference.

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37 minutes ago, tin said:

No.

If he was a stop-gap appointment, the board would/should've come out and cited the virus as a mitigating factor behind it. Instead, we got "he was the best candidate out of more than 80 applicants... PL is the goal... has to improve on last year's 12th-place finish" blah, blah, blah. 

The board cocked it up. 

I'm sure Dean would've been delighted if the club said he only got the job due to Covid. Need to think how the players would react too - not much credibility if they come out and say that. 

I do think Lansdown wanted to 'consolidate' until the income stream comes back. Holden was on board with that and if he turned out to be a genius all well and good. If not, struggle on for a bit and 'go again' once the income starts coming back. 

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4 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

It was a stop gap after they realised nobody else wanted it but wasn’t intended at the start

 

I would like to think we had at least 1 or 2 decent candidates apply at the time, but we're put off due to club imposed finance restrictions. If not then where the hell do we go from here! 

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It’s a nice thought but, when Holden was appointed, Covid had all but disappeared and we’d sold season tickets with the expectation of fans being back in the stadium soon.

Highly doubt the club saw this level of financial pain coming. So doubt they planned for it. In a strange way, we might have got lucky NOT going all guns blazing for an expensive manager who would have wanted expensive players of his own brought in. Could be in a very tight financial spot. 

True impact of covid yet to be seen.

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No. I really don’t now.

From everything that was written and said, by both the board members and Holden himself, I genuinely believe they thought they’d unearthed a gem and he thought he had what it took.

That rhetoric stayed the same with Holden the whole time: “Nothings come easy in my life” “I’ve worked for everything I’ve got” “I believe in my ability” etc etc. 
 

Those aren’t the words of a proud man who knows he’s in his job as a stop gap.

The one year rolling contract is not so unusual these days and is more a reflection on protecting the club, especially during Covid and the simple fact that Holden would have signed anything to have the job - we held the cards when it came to negotiating.

I also think, both in SL’s interview and the press release following his termination, there would have been more of a nod to that if it was true...something like “Dean stepped in at a difficult time” “worked tirelessly to help us through the Covid issues” etc etc. But I didn’t see any of that.

Add in there hasn’t been even a whisper or suggestion from the club about getting to next summer and re-grouping or that we’re looking for a short term option now (ala McCarthy at Cardiff) - but still may come I suppose.


For me, it’s Lansdown again making the same mistakes, Tinnion, Millen, Holden et al and he genuinely thought Holden was the man.

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1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

So what you’re saying is that we had a stop gap but the stop gap failed to stop the gap and now we need a stop gap for the stop gap?

Is that what you’re saying?

A double stop gap in one season (is the plural stops gap or stop gaps?) would be like putting in a night watchman at cricket who is out first ball. What do you do then? 

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1 hour ago, 2015 said:

Listen to the interview with SL from August. He was certain Holden was his Man.

 

He was certain Holden was his main in the context of the “type of arrangement we wanted”, as he states early in this interview. This is the key. What in real terms is that criteria. This means that of whoever applied (and we believe there was huge interest from many candidates with good reputations) that they were not up to the criteria and Dean emerged the stand out candidate.

Does the criteria for the job remain the same, or is there some deviation/reforming of it now we are searching from our new manager.

It may seem obvious to some, and let’s face it, there are loads of theories on this forum, but what do you think is the “arrangement”? Because if we’ve seen Dean Holden, and now we’re talking about names like Howe, Cook, etc., there’s likely to be a lot of difference of interpretation to what Lansdown means by “arrangement “.

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No. Good options were available at the time, but we turned them down or they turned us down, depending on who you listen to.So there was no need to have a stop gap. This was a great opportunity to really kick on. The new man could of had 4 or 5 games at the back end of last season to assess the squad, along with pre season ( albeit a short one ) to work out what was needed. Luckily there are still a few good options for us. Just hope we don’t screw it up again. COYR 

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Think the plan changed over last summer, initially it was for a profile manager, but something happened and DH became the low risk easy option, to hold the reigns for a season. If he held us in mid table fine, if he outperformed expectation and got to the playoffs then great. Whilst I think he was a very poor manager, injuries without a doubt contributed to his downfall and would have survived to the summer in mid table.

So its what caused the re-think?

1, Several weeks into the recruitment process, then deal for the high profile manger fell apart or deciding not correct fit for club, so quick appointment needed

2, Covid / FFP planning changed transfer funds available and DH proposals were based on very minor cheap additions to squad

3, MA's control, whilst I know it is believed that managers cannot work in the structure, I don't think managers would go through an interview process without knowing the jobs remit and clubs set up. also not sure how uncommon this structure now is and plenty work within

4, wage demands of profile manager could not be met, again you don't go through a lengthy process without both sides having an indication of whats on offer or expectations, so unlikely.

5, something else, combination of above, who knows, but it did not work and now in a position where a lower league performer or foreign appointment will be too big a risk as no second chances with time running out.

 

 

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