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Steve Lansdown interview


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1 hour ago, SouthS22 said:

 
It’s good that they are listening to fans through the forums - they cant get the match day interaction at the moment so they are clearly monitoring social media more closely. . Of course SL doesn’t do that himself..   He and MA have will have Communications people at the club  doing that and reporting back to them.  That’s very welcome that they are taking account of what’s being said, especially as it must be pretty uncomfortable right now. 
 

On the contrary I'm sure SL does read the the forum himself, and certainly the relevant threads at times like these.

Both he and Maggie are members of OTIB and used to post on here.

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4 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

On the contrary I'm sure SL does read the the forum himself, and certainly the relevant threads at times like these.

Both he and Maggie are members of OTIB and used to post on here.

It's a direct line to 'customer' feedback, the club would be daft not to tap in to it.

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Well fair play to Steve  for doing the interview. The questions where set as to not upset Steve which was poor. Glad to hear our comments on here do have an effect. Very disappointed that they want someone who will fit in with how things are here. Instead of someone who is going to sort out what is wrong within the club, so a yes man it is. He said he got it wrong with Deans appointment. So why is he still letting MA control who is on the short list. The chairman JL should be in control of the whole process, with MA doing the donkey work based on what JL and SL tell him. I truly hope they get it right this time and we can all get back to going to the gate and seeing CITY succeed.

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22 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Good post. 

I suspect there's one change to the strategy that they already know they need to come to terms with, and that's the ambition to promote from within. When Holden was appointed I wasn't surprised - indeed I had been one of several posters on here warning the 'Johnson out' brigade to be careful what they wished for because they'd be getting Jamie Mac or Dean Holden in his place. And the reasons for that was that the club had been making it clear for ages that was the strategy.

But this time round I honestly don't think they have any internal options. So they have to come to terms with the reality of an 'outsider', so someone who will need to convince them that they can operate within the strategy, but at the same time you'd hope that SL, MA and co would be open to the possibility that the new man or woman could also provide the opportunity for some new ideas and maybe some ways of making the strategy better.

I've  said elsewhere that I wonder whether the last few months of his tenure saw LJ becoming disillusioned with some aspects of how the 'buy cheap sell high' strategy was playing out. Losing Webster and then Brownhill when he did - quite suddenly, late in the day, no time to build anything around replacements - I think he found hard to accept, despite his overall willingness to work within the strategy. Obviously I've no idea what went on internally at the time.

So, I'd competetely agree that there are some potential candidates who are so far removed from what the club is trying to do that they are non starters. But that there are some that may buy into what we're trying to do, but have their own ideas about how that could work better and that SL/MA would be open to that. 

People talk about the club wanting a 'yes man'. It's a bit of a perjorative term that's often used lazily. Of course it would be good to have someone who comes with fresh ideas and will contribute to improving how we do things and not just do what s/he is told.  Indeed, at that level in any organisation you'd expect that. But there's no point bringing in someone who so fundamentally disagrees with the strategy that they will constantly be at loggerheads with the owner and the CEO, that's just a recipe for disaster. 

The club have clearly come to the conclusion that they want x model in place, believe x model has worked elsewhere (thus believe will work here) and will not, hugely understandably, massively deviate from a path to which they have poured significant resource.

We might not agree with that, think it's the wrong model, some will without doubt yearn for the days when the manager called all the shots from his smoke filled office, but this is the path we're on. It isn't going to massively deviate. So people, and this obviously isn't always an easy thing to do, need to adjust their expectations because otherwise they're simply banging their head against a wall.

You're not asking people to change their mind, suddenly throw everything they think out of the window and become an all conforming drone who yearly clicks a button to renew their season ticket (as much as they club would clearly love that..), but maybe a dose of realism is required.

The issue with that, of course, is that if Chris Hughton, Eddie Howe, Paul Cook and Mick McCarthy have an interest in coming on board but the model in place only allows us a shortlist of Ryan Lowe, Michael Appleton, Danny Cowley and Dean Holden then revolt is inevitable. It is therefore imperative that the club get it right. Because when they don't, when Chris Hughton has declared an interest but you employ an inexperienced guy from within who you are forced to sack 40 games later, you put your backs to the wall. And I think, and maybe to be honest hope, that is what we are seeing now.

I thought there was a steely feel about that Lansdown update. He looked like a man facing a camera knowing he'd got it wrong who was intent on putting it right without making overarching compromises. So he now faces a huge dilemma. As you've said, certain people are simply not in the equation. But then he/they must realise, though he/they clearly didn't with Holden, that sticking to your structure so rigidly can be hugely destructive. Does he dare appoint Appleton/Cowley whose arrival will go down like a lead balloon? If someone like Howe is intrigued, which to be honest I cant see, does he throw money at a candidate who will meet fan approval AND fit the structure? Or do you make concessions on the structure to bring in someone who will meet fan approval without breaking the bank?

If the summer was a huge appointment then this feels like a HUGE appointment. If he/they get this wrong again then I see little alternative but to have a full review of how the club is run.

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6 minutes ago, S_C said:

The club have clearly come to the conclusion that they want x model in place, believe x model has worked elsewhere (thus believe will work here) and will not, hugely understandably, massively deviate from a path to which they have poured significant resource.

We might not agree with that, think it's the wrong model, some will without doubt yearn for the days when the manager called all the shots from his smoke filled office, but this is the path we're on. It isn't going to massively deviate. So people, and this obviously isn't always an easy thing to do, need to adjust their expectations because otherwise they're simply banging their head against a wall.

You're not asking people to change their mind, suddenly throw everything they think out of the window and become an all conforming drone who yearly clicks a button to renew their season ticket (as much as they club would clearly love that..), but maybe a dose of realism is required.

The issue with that, of course, is that if Chris Hughton, Eddie Howe, Paul Cook and Mick McCarthy have an interest in coming on board but the model in place only allows us a shortlist of Ryan Lowe, Michael Appleton, Danny Cowley and Dean Holden then revolt is inevitable. It is therefore imperative that the club get it right. Because when they don't, when Chris Hughton has declared an interest but you employ an inexperienced guy from within who you are forced to sack 40 games later, you put your backs to the wall. And I think, and maybe to be honest hope, that is what we are seeing now.

I thought there was a steely feel about that Lansdown update. He looked like a man facing a camera knowing he'd got it wrong who was intent on putting it right without making overarching compromises. So he now faces a huge dilemma. As you've said, certain people are simply not in the equation. But then he/they must realise, though he/they clearly didn't with Holden, that sticking to your structure so rigidly can be hugely destructive. Does he dare appoint Appleton/Cowley whose arrival will go down like a lead balloon? If someone like Howe is intrigued, which to be honest I cant see, does he throw money at a candidate who will meet fan approval AND fit the structure? Or do you make concessions on the structure to bring in someone who will meet fan approval without breaking the bank?

If the summer was a huge appointment then this feels like a HUGE appointment. If he/they get this wrong again then I see little alternative but to have a full review of how the club is run.

Why would the model only allow a shortlist of certain applicants? Is this done on supposition from the board's POV, or an actual reality?

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2 hours ago, maxjak said:

All credit to  SL for coming on again, he has at least listened to some of the criticism directed at the club.   However it is a grave error of judgement in my opinion to   have Ashton as the initial compiler and instigator of the   applicants, he has a poor track record to put it mildly!!  As soon as i heard SL say  that Ashton will be entrusted with assessing and interviewing the applicants, and drawing up a short list, my heart sank.

 They all got it seriously wrong last time, why can't Lansdown see that we need some independent advice from senior football men, who could come in as advisers to help with recruitment in the short term.  Someone like Scudamore or even Alex Ferguson, that type of "been there and done it" figure could be invaluable in finding the right man?  But No, he turns again to Ashton, who I have No faith in at all.  Normally when we are seeking a new manager I am excited at the prospect, but I am now thinking the worst, and dreading which mate of Ashton will get to manage our club.

With the structure that we have in place, I am really not sure we will end up with the best candidate, very few independently minded, strong characters will be interested in having Ashton pulling the strings, and I think it will put off a number of quality applicants.  Steve spoke well and admitted that they got it wrong, but he could doing nothing else really, could he?   But it is not enough to take the blame..............what is needed are some  brave decisions about how the club is set up and an infrastructure that seems not to work?    What I am really hoping for,  is if a really top quality applicant states that they are very interested in the job, but not with the present set up in place, and then SL will be made to make a decision whether to turn down someone perfect for the job, or to scrap the Ashton dictatorship and recruit a top manager/coach.   I am NOT holding my breath  on that wish though!!

...who recommended Moyes as his own successor. 

No thanks.

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8 minutes ago, S_C said:

The club have clearly come to the conclusion that they want x model in place, believe x model has worked elsewhere (thus believe will work here) and will not, hugely understandably, massively deviate from a path to which they have poured significant resource.

We might not agree with that, think it's the wrong model, some will without doubt yearn for the days when the manager called all the shots from his smoke filled office, but this is the path we're on. It isn't going to massively deviate. So people, and this obviously isn't always an easy thing to do, need to adjust their expectations because otherwise they're simply banging their head against a wall.

You're not asking people to change their mind, suddenly throw everything they think out of the window and become an all conforming drone who yearly clicks a button to renew their season ticket (as much as they club would clearly love that..), but maybe a dose of realism is required.

The issue with that, of course, is that if Chris Hughton, Eddie Howe, Paul Cook and Mick McCarthy have an interest in coming on board but the model in place only allows us a shortlist of Ryan Lowe, Michael Appleton, Danny Cowley and Dean Holden then revolt is inevitable. It is therefore imperative that the club get it right. Because when they don't, when Chris Hughton has declared an interest but you employ an inexperienced guy from within who you are forced to sack 40 games later, you put your backs to the wall. And I think, and maybe to be honest hope, that is what we are seeing now.

I thought there was a steely feel about that Lansdown update. He looked like a man facing a camera knowing he'd got it wrong who was intent on putting it right without making overarching compromises. So he now faces a huge dilemma. As you've said, certain people are simply not in the equation. But then he/they must realise, though he/they clearly didn't with Holden, that sticking to your structure so rigidly can be hugely destructive. Does he dare appoint Appleton/Cowley whose arrival will go down like a lead balloon? If someone like Howe is intrigued, which to be honest I cant see, does he throw money at a candidate who will meet fan approval AND fit the structure? Or do you make concessions on the structure to bring in someone who will meet fan approval without breaking the bank?

If the summer was a huge appointment then this feels like a HUGE appointment. If he/they get this wrong again then I see little alternative but to have a full review of how the club is run.

Again, spot on. Just two comments.

If there’s a positive now, it’s that they don’t have the option this time of sticking to the purest form of the model, ie the internal appointment. So they need to ask some of the questions you’ve raised. And hopefully ‘who can bring most added value to what we’re already trying to do’ will be a big question. There might also be a question around the potential for a DoF role in the model, tho listening to SLs interview maybe suggests that’s less likely.

Secondly, I don’t think that meeting fan approval will be a big factor. And rightly so. As has been pointed out before, the most overwhelming fan approval of any appointment during SLs reign was Coppell. Second highest approval rating was probably O’Driscoll. Speaks for itself! 

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12 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Why would the model only allow a shortlist of certain applicants? Is this done on supposition from the boards POV, or an actual reality?

Good question.
Maybe there’s a ‘job description’ of sorts which means that some might not apply. Maybe the board has already asked the ‘knockout’ questions nine months ago. Maybe it is just based in an individuals track record in management - some of those have been around long enough to be able to make that judgement?

None of that is to knock what those names have achieved, simply that they won’t work with our clubs model.

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5 minutes ago, S_C said:

100% supposition.

 

 

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

Good question.
Maybe there’s a ‘job description’ of sorts which means that some might not apply. Maybe the board has already asked the ‘knockout’ questions nine months ago. Maybe it is just based in an individuals track record in management - some of those have been around long enough to be able to make that judgement?

None of that is to knock what those names have achieved, simply that they won’t work with our clubs model.

They can't know that for certain though…

They're omitting a certain type of manager based on what might happen which is stupid and short-sighted. 

I think it might be better to cut out the middle men and get Steve to decide on the shortlist from the very start. In my experience of job searching, very often I'm rejected because the agency/HR making those kinds of decisions has a remit to follow and won't stray from it. I've found it easier to get work by applying directly.

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When SL said that the new person must fit in with the existing culture it begged the question "but what if the culture is flawed Steve?". It would have been very interesting to hear his response to that challenge. It is the fundamental question in all of this. A missed opportunity by the interviewer.

As has been pointed out on here before, the definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing and expecting the result to be different each time.

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27 minutes ago, S_C said:

The club have clearly come to the conclusion that they want x model in place, believe x model has worked elsewhere (thus believe will work here) and will not, hugely understandably, massively deviate from a path to which they have poured significant resource.

We might not agree with that, think it's the wrong model, some will without doubt yearn for the days when the manager called all the shots from his smoke filled office, but this is the path we're on. It isn't going to massively deviate. So people, and this obviously isn't always an easy thing to do, need to adjust their expectations because otherwise they're simply banging their head against a wall.

You're not asking people to change their mind, suddenly throw everything they think out of the window and become an all conforming drone who yearly clicks a button to renew their season ticket (as much as they club would clearly love that..), but maybe a dose of realism is required.

The issue with that, of course, is that if Chris Hughton, Eddie Howe, Paul Cook and Mick McCarthy have an interest in coming on board but the model in place only allows us a shortlist of Ryan Lowe, Michael Appleton, Danny Cowley and Dean Holden then revolt is inevitable. It is therefore imperative that the club get it right. Because when they don't, when Chris Hughton has declared an interest but you employ an inexperienced guy from within who you are forced to sack 40 games later, you put your backs to the wall. And I think, and maybe to be honest hope, that is what we are seeing now.

I thought there was a steely feel about that Lansdown update. He looked like a man facing a camera knowing he'd got it wrong who was intent on putting it right without making overarching compromises. So he now faces a huge dilemma. As you've said, certain people are simply not in the equation. But then he/they must realise, though he/they clearly didn't with Holden, that sticking to your structure so rigidly can be hugely destructive. Does he dare appoint Appleton/Cowley whose arrival will go down like a lead balloon? If someone like Howe is intrigued, which to be honest I cant see, does he throw money at a candidate who will meet fan approval AND fit the structure? Or do you make concessions on the structure to bring in someone who will meet fan approval without breaking the bank?

If the summer was a huge appointment then this feels like a HUGE appointment. If he/they get this wrong again then I see little alternative but to have a full review of how the club is run.

Agree.

Think he realised he got the Holden Appointment wrong.  Allowed himself to be convinced that Holden was the best (whether that was the way the interview was conducted / lead I don’t know).  He doesn’t like being made a mug of, and to have to do that with 7 months is not something he likes.

His big problem is not letting it happen again.  He isn’t a football expert, Mark Ashton can’t spot a bullshit answer in an interview because he has no playing or management expertise.  What SL should really be doing is bringing in someone independent to assist.  I dunno who, but someone like Joe Jordan, or maybe a bit more current who can give them that ability to see through bullshit both from the interviewee and interviewer side, the person who delves that bit deeper.

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Just now, TedsHeadIs Red said:

When SL said that the new person must fit in with the existing culture it begged the question "but what if the culture is flawed Steve?". It would have been very interesting to hear his response to that challenge. It is the fundamental question in all of this. A missed opportunity by the interviewer.

As has been pointed out on here before, the definition of madness is to keep doing the same thing and expecting the result to be different each time.

Quite. But first ask what the culture actually is, or is supposed to be. Other than settling for mediocrity on the football side.

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Well what I took out of the interview is that he blatantly wants Eddie Howe as the next head coach. Whether that is achievable or even whether it would be a good appointment, I am not sure.

 

I was however delighted with the implication that mid table is no longer good enough for this club and that we should be challenging for the play offs minimum. I totally agree and long gone are the days when a Bristol City manager would only be sacked at Championship level in an attempt to avoid relegation.

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8 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Secondly, I don’t think that meeting fan approval will be a big factor. And rightly so. As has been pointed out before, the most overwhelming fan approval of any appointment during SLs reign was Coppell. Second highest approval rating was probably O’Driscoll. Speaks for itself! 

For sure, you don't simply appoint whoever is currently topping the latest forum poll, but for me you underplay fan approval a touch in this instance.

Fans will {hopefully} be returning next season and the club will (or at least should) be wary of how a stuttering end to this season under Appleton/Cowley (who, for what it's worth, I think are both perfectly entitled to be in the conversation) will be received. I think id go as far to say that if the club appoint Appleton {especially} and we cough and splutter our way to survival there will be a noticeable impact on renewals given, whether it's a black mark or not in reality, people simply don't like Ashton.

On the flip side the club would do themselves the world of good in appointing someone who isn't perceived as a natural fit. Fans would welcome the flexibility. It would take the heat off Ashton/Lansdown. I honestly believe, not to be overly dramatic, that even if it failed (clearly not a Coppell-esque failure..) it would heal wounds. It puts them in a position to justifiably claim they can still attract reputable candidates under the model.

You don't appoint a name for the sake of pleasing fans, but if they overlook a name(s) in favour of a modest coach who is perceived as fitting the structure they sure as shit better get it right.

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4 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Well what I took out of the interview is that he blatantly wants Eddie Howe as the next head coach. Whether that is achievable or even whether it would be a good appointment, I am not sure.

 

I was however delighted with the implication that mid table is no longer good enough for this club and that we should be challenging for the play offs minimum. I totally agree and long gone are the days when a Bristol City manager would only be sacked at Championship level in an attempt to avoid relegation.

Merely out of interest , and you are not the only one to suggest so

Why did you think this ?

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13 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

We are exactly that, a soft touch. Evidence for that is the performances the players have been turning in for the past 3 months. It's become a cosy club again. 

Totally agree.

Like the last relegation season.

Hiring a head coach from within didn't help in that respect - no change for the players, carry on lads.

 

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6 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Well what I took out of the interview is that he blatantly wants Eddie Howe as the next head coach. Whether that is achievable or even whether it would be a good appointment, I am not sure.

 

I was however delighted with the implication that mid table is no longer good enough for this club and that we should be challenging for the play offs minimum. I totally agree and long gone are the days when a Bristol City manager would only be sacked at Championship level in an attempt to avoid relegation.

I think ‘blatantly’ is a bit strong, given that he gave no hint of who he wanted.  However, I’d be surprised if Howe wasn’t his first choice.

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5 minutes ago, S_C said:

For sure, you don't simply appoint whoever is currently topping the latest forum poll, but for me you underplay fan approval a touch in this instance.

Fans will {hopefully} be returning next season and the club will (or at least should) be wary of how a stuttering end to this season under Appleton/Cowley (who, for what it's worth, I think are both perfectly entitled to be in the conversation) will be received. I think id go as far to say that if the club appoint Appleton {especially} and we cough and splutter our way to survival there will be a noticeable impact on renewals given, whether it's a black mark or not in reality, people simply don't like Ashton.

On the flip side the club would do themselves the world of good in appointing someone who isn't perceived as a natural fit. Fans would welcome the flexibility. It would take the heat off Ashton/Lansdown. I honestly believe, not to be overly dramatic, that even if it failed (clearly not a Coppell-esque failure..) it would heal wounds. It puts them in a position to justifiably claim they can still attract reputable candidates under the model.

You don't appoint a name for the sake of pleasing fans, but if they overlook a name(s) in favour of a modest coach who is perceived as fitting the structure they sure as shit better get it right.

Yes, Appleton is certainly the high risk in that regard. He'll start with the 'Ashton's favourite' tag against him and that will give him far less wriggle room than others. But there's a bit of a parallel there with a certain Lee Johnson - and that didn't work out too badly (tin hat on!). 

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27 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Yes, Appleton is certainly the high risk in that regard. He'll start with the 'Ashton's favourite' tag against him and that will give him far less wriggle room than others. But there's a bit of a parallel there with a certain Lee Johnson - and that didn't work out too badly (tin hat on!). 

I’m open minded about Appleton.  He’s had 5 years away from Ashton, experienced different things.  I always though LJ should go and be a number 2 somewhere.  Appleton not too proud to go to Leicester to do that.

I am told he’s a bit “odd” though, not in a bad way, but in terms of ways of motivation.

He shouldn’t be top of the pile, but he should be part of pile imho.

As Harry has eluded to, his recruitment record without Ashton appears chalk and cheese to his first 18 months at Oxford.

It would be a dangerous choice, but it wouldn’t make it necessarily the wrong choice.

(puts Kevlar hat on)

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8 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I thought , when mentioning a couple they couldn’t speak to , he was on about cook & howe . Complete guess though 

I got that impression too, whilst i could hear his brain saying “we missed an opportunity with Hughton in hindsight”.

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28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I got that impression too, whilst i could hear his brain saying “we missed an opportunity with Hughton in hindsight”.

His comment about a couple not being right for the individuals as to where “they were in their careers” was interesting; could be the likes of Howe (wanted a break from the game), Alex Neil (due to size of compo) and Jokanovic (still had year to run on his high salary contract) - all just speculation but would make sense.....time will tell.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Agree.

Think he realised he got the Holden Appointment wrong.  Allowed himself to be convinced that Holden was the best (whether that was the way the interview was conducted / lead I don’t know).  He doesn’t like being made a mug of, and to have to do that with 7 months is not something he likes.

His big problem is not letting it happen again.  He isn’t a football expert, Mark Ashton can’t spot a bullshit answer in an interview because he has no playing or management expertise.  What SL should really be doing is bringing in someone independent to assist.  I dunno who, but someone like Joe Jordan, or maybe a bit more current who can give them that ability to see through bullshit both from the interviewee and interviewer side, the person who delves that bit deeper.

Defo agree here, exactly what’s needed I think...someone who can ask what they think of the players in the squad, how they’d set things up, what we need as a squad , strengths weaknesses etc.. and can provide some guidance to Steve and co in terms of the responses to those questions. What’s your consultancy rate these days Dave?

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Just now, Out of his pie crust said:

Defo agree here, exactly what’s needed I think...someone who can ask what they think of the players in the squad, how they’d set things up, what we need as a squad , strengths weaknesses etc.. and can provide some guidance to Steve and co in terms of the responses to those questions. What’s your consultancy rate these days Dave?

Cheap!!!!

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16 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

I do think Steve is a good guy and that his motivation is to make BCFC something to make Bristolians proud. 

Having said that he also said he could see things were getting worse and has been in football long enough to read the warning signs.

Why the F then do we not have a VERY short list of coaches to chase now? Other clubs do their homework and go for the man that they think can deliver. Meanwhile, we put out a job advert, sit back and read the CVs and have a board meeting to go through the applications. 

FFS it isn't that hard surely. Identify someone who can demonstrate they have done it AT THIS level and go after them. 

It all seems so stilted and corporate compared to how other clubs do it. 

I completely agree. He must be happy to stay as we are until he decides to push onwards now, or maybe never. its his club . We just help him to pay towards it.

 

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