Players need to look at themselves

[Lordofthebling]

35 minutes ago, gamon said:

Lansdown is blind if he thinks this team is capable of challenging the top six.

I think it is, but there is no way I'd let that team play like that without being thrown out tbh.

Fam, Wells and Hunt would've probably had a lot of stick today.

[Lordofthebling]

8 minutes ago, One Team said:

I thought Kalas's reaction was quite telling as he walked off the pitch in complete disgust, almost throwing his captain's arm band off.

This was a shocking display by supposed professional footballers; clearly Holden wasn't the only problem.

Make no mistake, we are in a relegation fight. 

And thats what ####### me off the most. Go galvanise the team, go pick Bakinson off the deck, go do something that we as supporters can see there is some fight left on this ####show

[AshtonGreat]

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Again there were FFP considerations for in-season assessments. The EFL assess in-season as well.

So you'd chuck in the youth? Problem is half our squad is injured which means you go down to youth and it may well motivate them- but the youth thrown into a struggling side may get scarred. I see why it's tempting though.

I don't really know what I'd do tbh. It's not my job to make those decisions. But considering where we were then and where we are now, the last few years have clearly been very poorly managed.

[AshtonGreat]

11 minutes ago, One Team said:

I thought Kalas's reaction was quite telling as he walked off the pitch in complete disgust, almost throwing his captain's arm band off.

This was a shocking display by supposed professional footballers; clearly Holden wasn't the only problem.

Make no mistake, we are in a relegation fight. 

He's meant to be the captain. It's partly his job to motivate them. Flatters to deceive, that bloke

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, AshtonGreat said:

I don't really know what I'd do tbh. It's not my job to make those decisions. But considering where we were then and where we are now, the last few years have clearly been very poorly managed.

We're in a mess for sure, but I can't believe the players should be playing as badly as this- win v Preston good, first half hour-half v Huddersfield- passable, 3-0 at Millwall- good, Brentford- acceptable albeit in loss and Sheffield United we at least stayed in even with 10.

That's about it. Maybe Blackburn at home too but that's it for going on 3 months now. Not very good.

[Davefevs]

44 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Bell and Britton to start next game.

Effin pisses me right off that we use our subs in such a way than we rarely make 5 subs.

[Daniro]

26 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

What players specifically?

For me I thought the back 5 tried their hardest.

Vyner always gives his all.

Palmer I was actually impressed with his work rate. Seems to be improving in that area!

Diedhiou always been very tired and will sprint a bit but walk at times like most big strikers. Never had much of an engine on him and never been a 2/3 games a week player playing 90 minutes every game and being ready to go again.

Semenyo always gives his all too.

Only player I question is Lansbury who to me doesn't look interested in the defensive side of the game. Looks so unfit too.

Some of them are knackered like Hunt and Fam.

I really do think the effort is stopping us from losing by 5 or 6. It's all we have. Not being able to pass the ball is not a lack of effort and when we look unorganised I don't think it's down to lack of effort either.

I wish it was down to something as simple as that. No doubt confidence is gone completely but we desperately need a new manager to come in and organise these players. The vast majority will give their all but look at that game plan today. Shocking. 

interesting points.   i'm shocked by how often these players lose the ball, how inaccurate their passing is, how poor their  throw ins, free kicks and corners are, how badly they defend set pieces,  ... I could go on.   They can't have become so bad in six months?

[stephenkibby.]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Effin pisses me right off that we use our subs in such a way than we rarely make 5 subs.

The fact that we haven't scored in five games and are in total freefall ,tells you that a couple of these young players must be worth at least 20mins when we look so toothless.

[Red Exile]

37 minutes ago, One Team said:

I thought Kalas's reaction was quite telling as he walked off the pitch in complete disgust, almost throwing his captain's arm band off.

This was a shocking display by supposed professional footballers; clearly Holden wasn't the only problem.

Make no mistake, we are in a relegation fight. 

I have sympathy for the better players. I felt for Kalas. What's he supposed to do. He made every challenge asked of him, played pretty well. He's been made captain, I don't get the impression that role comes naturally to him. He's surrounded by losers. He's got Lansbury playing in front of him in defensive midfield, a role he's hopelessly ill-equipped to fulfil. Vyner in midfield with Nagy on the bench. Two old duffers running the side, having taken over from a nobody. Kalas is an international player, a quality player. The club is a shambles. If I was him I wouldn't want to be associated with it. I'd be furious. I'd want out asap.

[Numero Uno]

We are in the middle of a player revolt. They aren’t being offered contracts so they’ve downed tools.

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, Magger1 said:

I’ve never watched a more pathetic weak gutless bottleless shower of shit in red shirts in all my life , god help them when fans return 

Yeah agree . Pathetic I wouldn’t want to keep any of those ******* that’s out of contract in the summer as well as some that are. Not one leader in the club & that includes the captain 

[Dan Robin]

Losing this one is a big blow. Even getting a draw could have restored a little bit of confidence and let them play with less nervousness against Boro...  I don't think the players don't care (at least, the majority of them), but they should do better: the problem is that many things are going wrong (injuries, form/fitness level, confidence, work done during training, etc) and when you have to fix so much...

 

 

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

49 minutes ago, Johnr1986 said:

Kalas has been so poor this season. 

He's no captain but he was our best player today. There's others far far worse than him. Other targets far far more deserving of our ire. 

[steviestevieneville]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Effin pisses me right off that we use our subs in such a way than we rarely make 5 subs.

May as well put them on , what is there to lose. Looks to me that Simpson & Downing had little influence on Holden . Same set up , same tactics what ******* tactics. Same subs with no purpose.  Vyner in midfield when Moore is totally out of his depth . I’d get rid of them as well now & ask tinman to take over for boro

[Alessandro]

Yep the players have got to take responsibility too. 
 

But look at that team today.

You’ve got players out there waiting to be offered new contracts.

You’ve got a player out there refusing to sign new contracts with a foot out the door.

You’ve got young players playing in positions they shouldn’t - whilst experienced internationals sit on the bench.

You've got experienced internationals sat on the bench watching young players out of position in their place.

You’ve two players in there on short term contracts who don’t look bothered. 

You’ve got contracted players who play decently, put in a shift and get dropped for said short term players.

You’ve got players who’ve signed, sold a promotion push, now probably on the phone to their agents.

You've got players in the squad not playing and demoralised because of injury mismanagement. 

And add in they’re probably all completely ****** because many have played game after game given the injury debacle behind the scenes.

 

Yes, the players need to take responsibility, but the squad has been allowed to get in a huge, demoralising mess thanks to mismanagement in both coaching and recruiting. 

[Tin Soldier]

I get the impression under Holden that it all got very comfy for his set of players. All looks to easy to keep picking up the £20K/ week salary.

Whoever is stupid enough to take the coach role will need to install some discipline QUICKLY. 

[Daniro]

4 minutes ago, Dan Robin said:

Losing this one is a big blow. Even getting a draw could have restored a little bit of confidence and let them play with less nervousness against Boro...  I don't think the players don't care (at least, the majority of them), but they should do better: the problem is that many things are going wrong (injuries, form/fitness level, confidence, work done during training, etc) and when you have to fix so much...

 

 

 

not as if Barnsely were that good - they should have walloped us and they would have been very susceptible playing so high up at the back if we had anyone with a football brain at this club.

[Lrrr]

56 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

As much as I would love to see it if we were in a different position but is a relegation battle and a bunch of players around them who have no confidence the environment to throw kids into

As opposed to a the forwards in a team who haven't scored in 4 league games and a cup game? If anything 2 or 3 academy players may put a rocket up the arse of the senior players. Conway, Bell and Pearson have played as a front 3 like we saw Diedhiou, Semenyo, Palmer today play. They're sure to have a good understanding of each others style of play/how to link up etc and if nothing else will bust a gut for their chance on the pitch which is more than can be said of some at the moment. 

[Tin Soldier]

24 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Yep the players have got to take responsibility too. 
 

But look at that team today.

You’ve got players out there waiting to be offered new contracts.

You’ve got a player out there refusing to sign new contracts with a foot out the door.

You’ve got young players playing in positions they shouldn’t - whilst experienced internationals sit on the bench.

You've got experienced internationals sat on the bench watching young players out of position in their place.

You’ve two players in there on short term contracts who don’t look bothered. 

You’ve got contracted players who play decently, put in a shift and get dropped for said short term players.

And add in they’re probably all completely ****** because many have played game after game given the injury debacle behind the scenes.

 

Yes, the players need to take responsibility, but the squad has been allowed to get in a huge, demoralising mess thanks to mismanagement in both coaching and recruiting. 

Agreed. And Ashton carries the can for this mess.

[RedM]

4 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Yep the players have got to take responsibility too. 
 

But look at that team today.

You’ve got players out there waiting to be offered new contracts.

You’ve got a player out there refusing to sign new contracts with a foot out the door.

You’ve got young players playing in positions they shouldn’t - whilst experienced internationals sit on the bench.

You've got experienced internationals sat on the bench watching young players out of position in their place.

You’ve two players in there on short term contracts who don’t look bothered. 

You’ve got contracted players who play decently, put in a shift and get dropped for said short term players.

And add in they’re probably all completely ****** because many have played game after game given the injury debacle behind the scenes.

 

Yes, the players need to take responsibility, but the squad has been allowed to get in a huge, demoralising mess thanks to mismanagement in both coaching and recruiting. 

Very well said. This is going to take years to rectify unless we get someone in who really knows what they are doing, and more importantly be allowed to do it. Shambles.

[Alessandro]

2 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

Agreed. And Ashton carries the can for this mess.

He needs to take his share of the responsibility. When things get like this, for me, it goes beyond just the head coach.

It’s like how they say in football what goes on, on the pitch, is often a reflection off it.

 

[firstdivision]

55 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

What players specifically?

For me I thought the back 5 tried their hardest.

Vyner always gives his all.

Palmer I was actually impressed with his work rate. Seems to be improving in that area!

Diedhiou always been very tired and will sprint a bit but walk at times like most big strikers. Never had much of an engine on him and never been a 2/3 games a week player playing 90 minutes every game and being ready to go again.

Semenyo always gives his all too.

Only player I question is Lansbury who to me doesn't look interested in the defensive side of the game. Looks so unfit too.

Some of them are knackered like Hunt and Fam.

I really do think the effort is stopping us from losing by 5 or 6. It's all we have. Not being able to pass the ball is not a lack of effort and when we look unorganised I don't think it's down to lack of effort either.

I wish it was down to something as simple as that. No doubt confidence is gone completely but we desperately need a new manager to come in and organise these players. The vast majority will give their all but look at that game plan today. Shocking. 

I agree with you completely. I think the really worrying issue is that the players ARE trying and they still come up with that. Confidence shot, added to injuries and players slogging through game after game with no rest or imaginative direction.

Very worrying situation, which needs a new head coach with a different perspective as soon as possible.

[MC RISK77]

9 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

As opposed to a the forwards in a team who haven't scored in 4 league games and a cup game? If anything 2 or 3 academy players may put a rocket up the arse of the senior players. Conway, Bell and Pearson have played as a front 3 like we saw Diedhiou, Semenyo, Palmer today play. They're sure to have a good understanding of each others style of play/how to link up etc and if nothing else will bust a gut for their chance on the pitch which is more than can be said of some at the moment. 

Very unforgiving league, by all means include in match day squad but destroying the confidence of these lads starting them while we are in free fall, could have more detrimental affect to their development. I would prefer another 3 wins under our belt a new manager who is willing to experiment and give them a go in the last 6-7 games hopefully.

[Red_Alligator]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

The speed in which they dismantled the team that beat Man U is nothing short of disgraceful really. Should never have sold Flint etc

I agree Ashton. There was the nucleus of a very promising team there. Sold off in the main of course,  but crucially not replaced either by talent coming through the academy or by astute dealing in the marketplace. Tens of millions of pounds involved and this is where we are today. Losing 0-1 at home (and lucky to get nil) to Barnsley. 

The plaudits were numerous after those cup displays. The comments from the media today were as damming as I've ever heard, and frankly an embarrassment to hear. 

[Tin Soldier]

39 minutes ago, Red_Alligator said:

I agree Ashton. There was the nucleus of a very promising team there. Sold off in the main of course,  but crucially not replaced either by talent coming through the academy or by astute dealing in the marketplace. Tens of millions of pounds involved and this is where we are today. Losing 0-1 at home (and lucky to get nil) to Barnsley. 

The plaudits were numerous after those cup displays. The comments from the media today were as damming as I've ever heard, and frankly an embarrassment to hear. 

Which is precisely why I will not be buying a season ticket for next season. This club is in a shambles, don’t be fooled by whizzy interviews. Complete mess. Selling off all the family silver and buying back this bag of shite is nothing short of a disgrace. Pretty pissed off with TBH.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Daniro said:

not as if Barnsely were that good - they should have walloped us and they would have been very susceptible playing so high up at the back if we had anyone with a football brain at this club.

Tbh they've been impressive this season- especially in recent weeks.

Should we have done better though? Absolutely. Was our performance acceptable? Clearly not. 

[Daniro]

49 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Tbh they've been impressive this season- especially in recent weeks.

Should we have done better though? Absolutely. Was our performance acceptable? Clearly not. 

Barnley were very relaxed and taking plenty of risks at the back  because they knew we present no threat.   As others have said, that's a scenario that ought to suit a player like Wells if only we had someone who knew how to exploit that.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Daniro said:

Barnley were very relaxed and taking plenty of risks at the back  because they knew we present no threat.   As others have said, that's a scenario that ought to suit a player like Wells if only we had someone who knew how to exploit that.

Think it's part of their natural way, quite high line but yes little opposing threat will encourage risk taking.

One scenario might be Semenyo and Wells up top, Palmer behind. Either with a 4 and then a 3 true CMs as your base, or a 3-4-1-2 maybe- but if it's a 3-4-1-2 you need more energy in the CM and maybe not a 34 year old at CB which can be exploited by an energetic side.

[Lordofthebling]

How Wells is anywhere near this team is beyond me

[Lrrr]

2 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

Very unforgiving league, by all means include in match day squad but destroying the confidence of these lads starting them while we are in free fall, could have more detrimental affect to their development. I would prefer another 3 wins under our belt a new manager who is willing to experiment and give them a go in the last 6-7 games hopefully.

I'm not saying an extended spell, could just be the one game but relying on 3 forwards who currently look like they couldn't score past a stationary dummy isn't going to help us. Bell has been in about 12 match day squad now and been given 15 minutes how is that any better for his confidence/belief? If and when he is eventually called on he's potentially out of form again for not being allowed to play a game for a good few months.