Mr Yoda Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 We have an absolute shower, no confidence, seemingly no plan, no identity at all. Whoever comes in needs to be a miracle worker but how long is needed to get us out of this mess? Feels like we've regressed back to the SOD days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 The worrying thing is, we have the core of a half decent side - at least a side that can play football!! The rot has well and truly set in though. Whether that's because of the coaching and management in recent months, the piss poor injury/medical situation (I wouldn't break a sweat if it meant a slight niggle resulted in 6 months out either), or just so many out of contract and not giving a shit, God only knows. You would have thought that the out of contract players would at least be giving a bit of effort to get a deal from somewhere (unless that's already sorted??) It needs a decent special manager/coaches to come in and sort this shambles out. We're currently heading in one direction. The wrong one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 Just need a man who knows what he’s doing. These players aren’t that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tin Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 To rebuild we need to hit rock bottom, and I’m not sure we’ve got there yet. The slide will continue for as long as Ashton and his mates remain, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Mr Yoda said: We have an absolute shower, no confidence, seemingly no plan, no identity at all. Whoever comes in needs to be a miracle worker but how long is needed to get us out of this mess? If there is no plan no identity at all there is nothing to rebuild? A start can be achieved simply, Very simply. In days. Put individuals onto the pitch who best meet simple achievable aims. A simple aim can be putting more pressure on opponents and closing them down. Bristol City have players including ones who have been here for years who think being in the same postcode as an opponent is putting pressure on the ball. Its obvious who these players are. Effort is a skill. Put more effort on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, Cowshed said: If there is no plan no identity at all there is nothing to rebuild? A start can be achieved simply, Very simply. In days. Put individuals onto the pitch who best meet simple achievable aims. A simple aim can be putting more pressure on opponents and closing them down. Bristol City have players including ones who have been here for years who think being in the same postcode as an opponent is putting pressure on the ball. Its obvious who these players are. Effort is a skill. Put more effort on the pitch. Very much agree. Basics- pressing, effort- closing down- starting point. Energy, desire. I'm fairly pro technical football but this should be the starting point. Any starting point. If I was to select a midfield with energy as a starting point of the current available players, Bakinson and Massengo might be part of that 3. Semenyo would definitely be in the side- aging players not so sure on... Vyner would also be in the side- defence or midfield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 We talked about rebuilding when we were relegated from the top flight. I, for one, am still waiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 I wonder how long it would be before we come out with some marketting/PR crap akin to "The Five Pillars" we came out with those years ago. What ever happened to those pillars? Did they get demolised along with the Williams Stand?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Yoda Posted February 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 15 minutes ago, Cowshed said: If there is no plan no identity at all there is nothing to rebuild? A start can be achieved simply, Very simply. In days. Put individuals onto the pitch who best meet simple achievable aims. A simple aim can be putting more pressure on opponents and closing them down. Bristol City have players including ones who have been here for years who think being in the same postcode as an opponent is putting pressure on the ball. Its obvious who these players are. Effort is a skill. Put more effort on the pitch. "Effort is a skill. Put more effort on the pitch." This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 LLLLLL and theres players walking in games!! Pick a team with the most desire and honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordofthebling Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 No transfer window either, so good #####ing lot with this lot of pathetic bunch of spoilt brats on the pitch. (Bents, Vyner, Bakinson et al excluded) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 26 minutes ago, Cowshed said: If there is no plan no identity at all there is nothing to rebuild? A start can be achieved simply, Very simply. In days. Put individuals onto the pitch who best meet simple achievable aims. A simple aim can be putting more pressure on opponents and closing them down. Bristol City have players including ones who have been here for years who think being in the same postcode as an opponent is putting pressure on the ball. Its obvious who these players are. Effort is a skill. Put more effort on the pitch. It really is that simple isn’t it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 I think a decent manager could stop the slide, haul the brakes on, stop us going down. The rebuild takes much longer and requires Ashton to leave, the board to be expanded to include more experienced and competent people, and an in-depth independent audit into why we have so many long-lasting injuries - the results of which need to be acted on. It goes without saying Simpson and Downing must leave. A decent manager will insist they take a hike immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, OddBallJim said: I wonder how long it would be before we come out with some marketting/PR crap akin to "The Five Pillars" we came out with those years ago. What ever happened to those pillars? Did they get demolised along with the Williams Stand?? To be fair, we may have stopped talking about them but we made decent progress with them all. 1) Academy - The Academy is in way better shape than in 2013. We went through a near-ten year period where only James Wilson and Christian Ribeiro came into the team from the academy. We brought through Reid, Bryan and Kelly and sold them on and have had several academy players get into the team this year. 2) Community - The Community Trust is way more active than it was back in 2013 3) Facilities - Our stadium was massively invested in and we've got the new training facilities soon 4) Financial prudence - we're not perfect but better than we were. 5) Recruitment - there was a point when we were signing young players for the future. A lot of those players haven't panned out and we've stepped back on it this season so it's easily the biggest and most critical failure of the five. But the "five pillars" weren't some marketing crap we ignored. It was basically what the club have been doing over the last decade and I'd say, up until eighteen months ago, doing successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 minute ago, LondonBristolian said: 4) Financial prudence - we're not perfect but better than we were. Some good points, LB, but I would argue that appointing a cheap head coach breaks pillar 4 and is a typical example of penny wise/pound foolish. SL should know better than most that you have to speculate to accumulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I think a decent manager could stop the slide, haul the brakes on, stop us going down. The rebuild takes much longer and requires Ashton to leave, the board to be expanded to include more experienced and competent people, and an in-depth independent audit into why we have so many long-lasting injuries - the results of which need to be acted on. It goes without saying Simpson and Downing must leave. A decent manager will insist they take a hike immediately. I get why people want Ashton to leave but I honestly don't think it'd make a jot of difference. Any CEO is still going to be implementing the board's strategy and I'd argue, recruitment of playing and coaching staff aside, he's done most of what he's been asked to do. SL's interview on Monday basically confirmed he's not some rogue figure acting against the board's interests but someone doing the exact job the board have asked him to do. If Ashton went, someone else would do that job instead. I fear the elephant in the room is the fact we've got an owner who is largely absent and, his place, a Chairman whose achieved his role on nepotism rather than ability. I honestly wonder if, for all the flak he gets and all of his corporate sliminess in interviews, we blame Ashton for a lot of areas where he papers over cracks that come from a chairman who is not up to the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 If we appoint Lee Johnson the Sunderland manager I believe it will take us about “three windows”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said: Some good points, LB, but I would argue that appointing a cheap head coach breaks pillar 4 and is a typical example of penny wise/pound foolish. SL should know better than most that you have to speculate to accumulate. Oh - I agree. I argued on a thread earlier today that we're not implementing our vision very well. My point wasn't trying to defend or praise the club - just to point out the "Five Pillars" weren't some brief marketing PR but something we've actually been trying to put into practice. Ultimately the recruitment of both playing and backroom staff remains the weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Robin Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 To be honest I cannot think about rebuilding yet....we just need to get of of the mess we are in now and save our season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Mr Yoda said: We have an absolute shower, no confidence, seemingly no plan, no identity at all. Whoever comes in needs to be a miracle worker but how long is needed to get us out of this mess? Feels like we've regressed back to the SOD days. We don't need a massive rebuild, we need confidence back and some players in key positions, the same players we've needed for a couple of years A ball winning midfielder we just don't have one, and without one our more creative players are stifled A cultured centre back to play along side kalas A striker, what we have upfront is league 2,.Wells is shit.semenyo isn't a striker Martin doesn't score goals We don't play fammy to his strengths It's not a massive rebuild its a quality coach we are lacking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedo Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 Depends how long Ashton is in post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 58 minutes ago, Fordy62 said: Just need a man who knows what he’s doing. These players aren’t that bad. I think there's the genesis of a decent team somewhere in our squad but I don't think a bad thing at all that a new manager will come in at a time when a lot of players are heading out of contract. I think there are a few players in the squad who have flattered to deceive again and again for years and who have mastered the art of stringing together three decent performances at a crucial time to avoid being booted out of the team entirely, only to go straight back to coasting again. For me, we need a manager who is going to set a standard, identity and style of play and be uncompromising in booting out anyone who doesn't want to work to achieve it. I've got high hopes for a lot of our younger players but, if they watch senior players coast and get away with it time and time again, I worry about the habits they'll learn and standards they'll aspire toward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Monkeh said: We don't need a massive rebuild, we need confidence back and some players in key positions, the same players we've needed for a couple of years A ball winning midfielder we just don't have one, and without one our more creative players are stifled A cultured centre back to play along side kalas A striker, what we have upfront is league 2,.Wells is shit.semenyo isn't a striker Martin doesn't score goals We don't play fammy to his strengths It's not a massive rebuild its a quality coach we are lacking I love the way we have all decided “Wells is sh*t” because our club have signed him for over £5m and we have not once played him in a system or shape that he played in and was successful in. Plus the fact he is probably aghast at what he has come in to from being incredibly happy at QPR. Should never have signed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 37 minutes ago, Three Lions said: LLLLLL and theres players walking in games!! Pick a team with the most desire and honesty. Are you allowed to start a team with fewer than 11 players? If we want desire and honesty we might just be able to put out a 5 a side team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said: I love the way we have all decided “Wells is sh*t” because our club have signed him for over £5m and we have not once played him in a system or shape that he played in and was successful in. Plus the fact he is probably aghast at what he has come in to from being incredibly happy at QPR. Should never have signed him. I've never rated Wells before he came here and what I've seen of him here backs it uo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said: I love the way we have all decided “Wells is sh*t” because our club have signed him for over £5m and we have not once played him in a system or shape that he played in and was successful in. Plus the fact he is probably aghast at what he has come in to from being incredibly happy at QPR. Should never have signed him. This is it for me. I don't think Wells is shit but I do think he is a player who was signed last season even though any sensible scouting should have identified that he wasn't a good fit for the team. I think he's a good Championship striker in a team that is set up to get the best out of him but I don't necessarily think setting up to get the best out of him would be the best way to get the best out of the rest of the team. Hence, as you say, we should never have signed him. I feel a bit sorry for him to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I get why people want Ashton to leave but I honestly don't think it'd make a jot of difference. Any CEO is still going to be implementing the board's strategy and I'd argue, recruitment of playing and coaching staff aside, he's done most of what he's been asked to do. SL's interview on Monday basically confirmed he's not some rogue figure acting against the board's interests but someone doing the exact job the board have asked him to do. If Ashton went, someone else would do that job instead. I fear the elephant in the room is the fact we've got an owner who is largely absent and, his place, a Chairman whose achieved his role on nepotism rather than ability. I honestly wonder if, for all the flak he gets and all of his corporate sliminess in interviews, we blame Ashton for a lot of areas where he papers over cracks that come from a chairman who is not up to the task. Ashton goes and the club structure changes. That includes board changes and Lansdown enjoying his retirement in Guernsey rather than thinking he is as good a decision taker in football as he was in stocks. A manager in place with more recruitment say, and a strong team to help in that area That won't happen this week, next week or anytime this season. But in the long-run it has to. If we are to remain a viable Championship club, let alone challenge for promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: This is it for me. I don't think Wells is shit but I do think he is a player who was signed last season even though any sensible scouting should have identified that he wasn't a good fit for the team. I think he's a good Championship striker in a team that is set up to get the best out of him but I don't necessarily think setting up to get the best out of him would be the best way to get the best out of the rest of the team. Hence, as you say, we should never have signed him. I feel a bit sorry for him to be honest. Exactly this. If there was ever a panic buy then this was it but it was a long time coming ironically. The Mark Ashton obsession with getting a vanity striker signing reached fever point. After the Nketiah mess (twice), the lucky strike with Afobe that actually turned out to be unlucky and a trail of disasters from Engvall through to Diony, we ended up with Nahki Wells. We became so obsessed with “a signing” we forgot to worry about who it was. Whilst all the time we had a £5.3m asset at the club that we either neglected to tie to a contract, or sell when he still had value. Why do I do this to myself every Saturday evening? I can feel my mood slipping into despair again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 Just now, Red-Robbo said: Ashton goes and the club structure changes. That includes board changes and Lansdown enjoying his retirement in Guernsey rather than thinking he is as good a decision taker in football as he was in stocks. A manager in place with more recruitment say, and a strong team to help in that area That won't happen this week, next week or anytime this season. But in the long-run it has to. If we are to remain a viable Championship club, let alone challenge for promotion. I'd argue we're talking about two different things here. Ashton going doesn't mean the club structure changes. It just means we've got a vacancy for a CEO. I'd agree a change in structure is needed. For me, the major thing isn't getting rid of a CEO as I can see why a football club needs one given the size and scale of things off the pitch. It's making sure the CEO is not involved in the operational side of the first team, either by having a an experienced Director of Football or Technical Director, which I'd prefer, or a Manager with more responsibility. I certainly agree there needs to be someone on the football side who has the confidence and authority to be able to tel Lansdown to wind his neck in when he tries to influence the football side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveInSA Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 38 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I think a decent manager could stop the slide, haul the brakes on, stop us going down. The rebuild takes much longer and requires Ashton to leave, the board to be expanded to include more experienced and competent people, and an in-depth independent audit into why we have so many long-lasting injuries - the results of which need to be acted on. It goes without saying Simpson and Downing must leave. A decent manager will insist they take a hike immediately. I wish there was a champagne "lie" (or even a thatchers one) cos this would have won it for me. 28 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: I get why people want Ashton to leave but I honestly don't think it'd make a jot of difference. Any CEO is still going to be implementing the board's strategy and I'd argue, recruitment of playing and coaching staff aside, he's done most of what he's been asked to do. SL's interview on Monday basically confirmed he's not some rogue figure acting against the board's interests but someone doing the exact job the board have asked him to do. If Ashton went, someone else would do that job instead. I fear the elephant in the room is the fact we've got an owner who is largely absent and, his place, a Chairman whose achieved his role on nepotism rather than ability. I honestly wonder if, for all the flak he gets and all of his corporate sliminess in interviews, we blame Ashton for a lot of areas where he papers over cracks that come from a chairman who is not up to the task. How is Ashton stull here? To say he implements the boards strtegy, isn't in my mind how it works. He's the CEO, he sets the strategy, which the board approve. It's Ashton's strategy. He needs to go. Then we can start to sort out this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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