Bristol Oil Services Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 .... December 2014, he went and got Chris Hughton. It took him 9 days (two league games). Nine days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dREDful Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 Ah, the glory days with out COVID.... I remember when you didn't play 12 times in 9 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Alligator Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 Please don't Mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reigate Red Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 37 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: .... December 2014, he went and got Chris Hughton. It took him 9 days (two league games). Ah but but he obviously didn't follow a well thought out due process - so it must surely have gone very badly indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 41 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: .... December 2014, he went and got Chris Hughton. It took him 9 days (two league games). Nine days. Not as simple as that. If an incoming manager wants X in terms of wage and transfer budget, exacerbated due to Covid times- thinking of Hughton here- and we can only work up to Y, problem. Guess a modern budget clash equivalent would be Howe or Lampard. Mismatch of reality vs ideal situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Not as simple as that. If an incoming manager wants X in terms of wage and transfer budget, exacerbated due to Covid times- thinking of Hughton here- and we can only work up to Y, problem. Guess a modern budget clash equivalent would be Howe or Lampard. Mismatch of reality vs ideal situation? Invest now in an attempt to prevent much bigger losses if we get relegated? Financially in the short term that makes sense, assuming that we can avoid relegation. And if we do relegated, then there will be a fire sale of players and we will have to start all over again anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, Dr Balls said: Invest now in an attempt to prevent much bigger losses if we get relegated? Financially in the short term that makes sense, assuming that we can avoid relegation. And if we do relegated, then there will be a fire sale of players and we will have to start all over again anyway. If it's a short term gig firefighting with the possibility of longer maybe. I have some sympathy with your point. It's a lot more complex now though- clubs submit Projected Accounts for the coming season in March, could you imagine how catastrophic a possible points deduction in our current situation would be. How much of the Covid losses ie no ticket sales are excluded from FFP? What sort of budget would a Hughton type want in the Summer? For Hughton read Howe or Lampard, a lot of uncertainty and variables as it stands. There was no such thing as Projected Accounts (in a club submission context) in 2014. None. Fully get a stitch in time etc but also got to ask, how realistic will some of these managers out of work be? @Moments of Pleasure is comparing like for like in one sense, but Apples and Oranges in another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: If it's a short term gig firefighting with the possibility of longer maybe. I have some sympathy with your point. It's a lot more complex now though- clubs submit Projected Accounts for the coming season in March, could you imagine how catastrophic a possible points deduction in our current situation would be. How much of the Covid losses ie no ticket sales are excluded from FFP? What sort of budget would a Hughton type want in the Summer? For Hughton read Howe or Lampard, a lot of uncertainty and variables as it stands. There was no such thing as Projected Accounts (in a club submission context) in 2014. None. Fully get a stitch in time etc but also got to ask, how realistic will some of these managers out of work be? Agree that you know far more about FFP than I do, although I would imagine that there may be some bending of the rules in what are truly unprecedented times for professional football. I am actually of the opinion that SL thinks he could make a financial go of us being in League 1 as long as we were up towards the top. Much lower overheads in terms of salaries, fees etc. and a relatively small drop in match day income and TV revenue by comparison with struggling in the Championship. The issue in terms of relegation from a cold-hearted perspective is more reputational than financial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said: .... December 2014, he went and got Chris Hughton. It took him 9 days (two league games). Nine days. I'm guessing Bloom knew exactly who he wanted. Then moved heaven and earth to get him. A hands-on owner capable of making good decisions. Guernsey has said he's starting with a blank piece of paper. A blank. Piece. Of paper. That is, he hasn't the foggiest who he wants. He's a hands-off, poor decision maker who needs a chief exec to put some names on the piece of paper for him. Before Guernsey then picks the wrong one. Imagine having Chris Hughton sat in front of you last summer, keen to take the job, and finding reasons not to employ him. Literally how fkin clueless can you be. So we have a hopeless decision maker who's put an unrealistic, unhealthy, prohibitive structure in place. Then expects promotion to the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dr Balls said: Agree that you know far more about FFP than I do, although I would imagine that there may be some bending of the rules in what are truly unprecedented times for professional football. I am actually of the opinion that SL thinks he could make a financial go of us being in League 1 as long as we were up towards the top. Much lower overheads in terms of salaries, fees etc. and a relatively small drop in match day income and TV revenue by comparison with struggling in the Championship. The issue in terms of relegation from a cold-hearted perspective is more reputational than financial. I'd hope there is some flexing, not had to suspend seasons etc since WW2! I'd agree- top end of League One, lower end Championship. Bit of yoyo- much lower cost base down there, one of the more competitive sides...then throw in Concerts, Conferencing etc- yeah could see something in that. Flourishing at the high end of that League and with some Cup runs as less pressure to go for top 6, our improving academy would also bring in player sales though perhaps less now. Wouldn't be good for us fans of course but could see some financial merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: I'm guessing Bloom knew exactly who he wanted. Then moved heaven and earth to get him. A hands-on owner capable of making good decisions. Guernsey has said he's starting with a blank piece of paper. A blank. Piece. Of paper. That is, he hasn't the foggiest who he wants. He's a hands-off, poor decision maker who needs a chief exec to put some names on the piece of paper for him. Before Guernsey then picks the wrong one. Imagine having Chris Hughton sat in front of you last summer, keen to take the job, and finding reasons not to employ. Literally how fkin clueless can you be. Could Hughton have wanted unrealistic parameters to his job? Wage budget, Transfer budget etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Shadow Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 How have Forest and Cardiff managed to skirt around FFP by appointing Hughton and McCarthy respectively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 13 minutes ago, Red Shadow said: How have Forest and Cardiff managed to skirt around FFP by appointing Hughton and McCarthy respectively? With respect to Hughton and Nottingham Forest, he has not spent much at all there. Some loans but the big sale of Matty Cash in summer and the reworking of FFP put them in an okay position for this season. Next season might be a different story! Cardiff have Parachute Payments as they did last year- £70-75m I believe in two seasons although this may have fallen due to Covid, see also the Harry Wilson loan. No way should he have ended up back at this level but he did! McCarthy is on a 6 month deal. Could be a bit of a shit or bust, as their Parachute Payments next season are ZERO. Adjustment made harder by the fact that if they don't go up, it'll be the first season since 2012/13 they had neither PL cash or Parachute Payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said: .... December 2014, he went and got Chris Hughton. It took him 9 days (two league games). Nine days. Yes, but think of the humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 38 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Could Hughton have wanted unrealistic parameters to his job? Wage budget, Transfer budget etc? Doubt it because Holden was given the money for Martin, Mawson, Brunt, Mariappa. What was Hughton asking for - Messi and Virgil van Dijk?? We know why we won't end up with one of the best candidates - they all want to work with a chief scout, and/or scouts, they know and trust. Not some tcun with a laptop they don't know from Adam El Abd. Those candidates know that they'll succeed or fail here based on the strength of our recruitment, just like every other manager in fact. So its not unreasonable, in my view, for them to want a good deal more input on the recruitment side than Guernsey is prepared to allow. I also think it's likely that Hughton, and any other experienced manager who was interviewed, would have observed that promoting youth to the first team is all well and good but - if promotion to the Premier League is truly the aim - those youngsters will need to be damn good. I think it's becoming increasingly obvious that they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said: .... December 2014, he went and got Chris Hughton. It took him 9 days (two league games). Nine days. Tony bloom made his money out of gambling, he took a risk and gambled with Hughton overspending to take Brighton up. It worked and they are trying to establish themselves in the Premiership, SL won't play that card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, M.D said: Tony bloom made his money out of gambling, he took a risk and gambled with Hughton overspending to take Brighton up. It worked and they are trying to establish themselves in the Premiership, SL won't play that card. 9 days was the point. Not how Brighton got promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Doubt it because Holden was given the money for Martin, Mawson, Brunt, Mariappa. What was Hughton asking for - Messi and Virgil van Dijk?? We know why we won't end up with one of the best candidates - they all want to work with a chief scout, and/or scouts, they know and trust. Not some tcun with a laptop they don't know from Adam El Abd. Those candidates know that they'll succeed or fail here based on the strength of our recruitment, just like every other manager in fact. So its not unreasonable, in my view, for them to want a good deal more input on the recruitment side than Guernsey is prepared to allow. I also think it's likely that Hughton, and any other experienced manager who was interviewed, would have observed that promoting youth to the first team is all well and good but - if promotion to the Premier League is truly the aim - those youngsters will need to be damn good. I think it's becoming increasingly obvious that they're not. Depends how much surgery he thought the squad needed in Summer 2020. It wouldn't surprise me if a mismatch existed between his wishlist and the reality we could offer in these straitened times though I'm only speculating. Can agree in part on the input on recruitment. Though as it goes, there seems to be a greater emphasis these days on data analysis etc- maybe managers will need to move on this over time- it's fair to say their autonomy in certain areas is less than it used to be. There's promise- is it top 6 level at this time? No. Promise? I'd say promise definitely exists, players mature at different times far too soon to write them off IMO, but are they poor and forever destined to be poor or mediocre, can't say I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 Just now, Merrick's Marvels said: 9 days was the point. Not how Brighton got promoted. My point was although it only took 9 days, Bloom took a punt, SL won't do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted February 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 When Sami Hyppia resigned in December 2014, Brighton then sacked their Head of Football Operations, David Burke. Their recruitment was considered to be the cause of their struggle (they were third bottom after 22 games, with 19 points). Just now, M.D said: My point was although it only took 9 days, Bloom took a punt, SL won't do that Deano wasn't a punt (that has cost money)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: When Sami Hyppia resigned in December 2014, Brighton then sacked their Head of Football Operations, David Burke. Their recruitment was considered to be the cause of their struggle (they were third bottom after 22 games, with 19 points). Deano wasn't a punt (that has cost money)? a poor one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: When Sami Hyppia resigned in December 2014, Brighton then sacked their Head of Football Operations, David Burke. Their recruitment was considered to be the cause of their struggle (they were third bottom after 22 games, with 19 points). Deano wasn't a punt (that has cost money)? Different kind of punt, Bloom invested a lot of money with a manager and backed him with players, he rolled the dice and got them to the top tear. I don't see that kind of gamble being taken by SL here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 minute ago, M.D said: My point was although it only took 9 days, Bloom took a punt, SL won't do that Eh? Bloom was a gambler so must have gambled on Hughton. Interesting logic. Maybe he was just prepared. Maybe because he was hands-on, maybe because he had a bit of football knowledge, he knew in advance who the best candidates out there were? All things Guernsey lacks - hands-on, football knowledge, being prepared for every eventuality. So what makes you say Bloom took a punt? How do you know Bloom hadn't done his due diligence well beforehand on a number of candidates, including Hughton? Unless you know Tony Bloom I think you're guessing, and wrongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 hours ago, dREDful said: Ah, the glory days with out COVID.... I remember when you didn't play 12 times in 9 days. I can’t remember ever when you played a game and a half every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted February 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Eh? Bloom was a gambler so must have gambled on Hughton. Interesting logic. Maybe he was just prepared. Maybe because he was hands-on, maybe because he had a bit of football knowledge, he knew in advance who the best candidates out there were? All things Guernsey lacks - hands-on, football knowledge, being prepared for every eventuality. So what makes you say Bloom took a punt? How do you know Bloom hadn't done his due diligence well beforehand on a number of candidates, including Hughton? Unless you know Tony Bloom I think you're guessing, and wrongly. I think it was the wage bill that was the gamble, Brighton not being a parachute payment club (but they were pulling 27k plus crowds, so making a few quid) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Could Hughton have wanted unrealistic parameters to his job? Wage budget, Transfer budget etc? Unrealistic parameters, like...............not wanting Ashton watching his every move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted February 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 31 minutes ago, M.D said: Different kind of punt, Bloom invested a lot of money with a manager and backed him with players, he rolled the dice and got them to the top tear. I don't see that kind of gamble being taken by SL here.. Steven Gerrard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 46 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: I think it was the wage bill that was the gamble, Brighton not being a parachute payment club (but they were pulling 27k plus crowds, so making a few quid) Do we know what their wage bill was? What their FFP situation was? I don't recall them blowing the FFP out the water like Bournemouth did to get promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.