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the young guns will always learn from negative and positive experience's, as a manager you work on the positives and get rid of the negative's which will hopefully come to fruit.

as for the experience players were f//ked they can only get worse

in with the young out with the old, nothing to lose

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Tins knows these kids better than anyone. He helped bring them through and he knows their capabilities. He would play them to their strengths and in the right positions. I am not suggesting he applies for the head coach job but I think we could benefit from him taking temporary charge. He couldn't be worse than "Stead and Simpson" anyway.

 

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It does not not help the young players when the coaches appear clueless, need rid of dumb & dumber now

Its hard enough to play in the championship, but in a side that constantly changes shape, even in the same game or players being expected to play in different positions

TM gets a lot of stick, I think generally unfairly as a few cant wait to jump on any error and happy to ignore errors by others. He is often having to play on the left, not is natural side. 

Vyner, looked good all season at RCB, but now chucked in midfield, for no real reason

Bakinson I think is a real talent, but need consistency around him

HNM played all over the place, plays well and rewarded by being dropped

Nagy - our best midfielder had to wait until every one else was injured to get a chance, was our best player in a number of matches, so gets dropped and then brought on as RB FFS

Towler - chucked in out of position against the best winger in the league

Bell - looked ok when came on, but super glued to the bench even in games that were lost and could get some game time

 

 

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Youth will only shine when learning from experienced enthusiastic colleagues! Where is the positive attitude from our current senior players?

as far as I can see there are only 4 that try to perform to their full potential, a few are along for the ride - but the current attacking midfield and our 9 must be let go at the end of the season - taking all they can and offering nothing!

As a plus we have a few that will come back from injury pretty soon and may just make a difference. We definitely don’t need so much 30+ experience to overwork the physios!

 

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3 minutes ago, dave36 said:

Youth will only shine when learning from experienced enthusiastic colleagues! Where is the positive attitude from our current senior players?

as far as I can see there are only 4 that try to perform to their full potential, a few are along for the ride - but the current attacking midfield and our 9 must be let go at the end of the season - taking all they can and offering nothing!

As a plus we have a few that will come back from injury pretty soon and may just make a difference. We definitely don’t need so much 30+ experience to overwork the physios!

 

That’ll be £0 then. 😉

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If any of our younger players (and I include Vyner  & Moore as it's their first time at this level), individually went into a side playing well or even reasonably well, they would probably look better. Vyner had started to look a class act even in MF didn't look out of place, Moore had looked good until he was forced to the left. A major part of the problem is the whole team look poor so anyone coming in will struggle to make an impact, let alone an inexperienced player.
I would say, and this is only my opinion.

Moore: looked decent early on. Seemed to lose his way when forced to the left . Has a mistake in him but deserves a run in his position
Vyner: Improved massively over the season, thought he did a good job in MF too. Looks to have gone backwards along with everyone else over the last few games.
Bakinson: Can pass, looks forward and has vision. Also needs time on the ball and can look indecisive but great promise . Needs games, probably L1 would be good for 6 months.
Massengo: Technically good, stronger now and will be very good. I have no idea why him and Nagy were ignored earlier in the season when we started to get injuries.
Semenyo: He's a funny one. Really looks a threat running at a defence, strong and has a shot. He also looks clumsy, decision making is questionable . Should have stayed on loan when we recalled him. Needs to find a position that suits him.

In comparison Wes Burns & Brownhill played in a side that was much more organised. Burns never did much to impress, where Brownhill spent months/years playing in a wide MF role and drifting in and out of games before he became the mainstay of our midfield. I do feel sorry for those guys above. They have been asked to almost carry the team when the experienced players almost look as though they've downed tools. Very harsh to judge them this season, although we all will.

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6 hours ago, mozo said:

And the experienced players that Holden turned to in his hour of need played awful. Lansbury and Paterson look barely fit enough for 20 minutes let alone a start. 

That’s a coaching problem not a player problem.  

6 hours ago, mozo said:

And the experienced players that Holden turned to in his hour of need played awful. Lansbury and Paterson look barely fit enough for 20 minutes let alone a start. 

That’s a coaching problem not a player problem.  

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I think we are being harsh here. Let's look at one of our record signings and highest paid players. Wells. Is he any better that our youngsters in terms of delivery ? We have no defined strategy of play, players are out of position, and we have zero confidence. What are we expecting from players making their way into the game ? I am not suggesting they are world beaters, but equally, there is a context here. Come on . Moan about Moore and Vyner all you want, but Wells was 5 million and one if not the highest paid player. Can we judge these players when we have a professional set up . 

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On 21/02/2021 at 10:48, Fordy62 said:

Do you know, the same thing has crossed my mind. 

I think they’ve all shown in fits and starts that they’re good enough, but consistency is key and they’re not showing it. Perhaps that comes with age... hopefully. 

Bakinson can be excellent and horrible in equal measure. Vyner (probably not young any longer!) has by and large been dependable. Semenyo looks exciting on occasions but awful on others (but had a late start to the game) and I’m sorry :laugh: to say there’s not much hope for Moore. Massengo can be good, but lightweight in equal measure. 

Consistency in youngsters is often a weakness, and I suppose the key is to expose them a little at a time. But our injury issues have meant that they’ve had a lot of minutes. And when you’re playing three or four of them at the same time, especially alongside players like Pato and KP, who are incredibly far from consistent, suddenly it’s plausible that you’ve got half a team who don’t turn up. I wonder if that’s our problem.

The youngsters need to find themselves amongst the more consistent players; Kalas, Nagy, Hunt(?). But when you play several players in the same side who wouldn’t look out of place in league one, you start to get what might look like a league one team. 

It’s all very well saying “isn’t it great we’ve blooded the youngsters?” But if you’re slip sliding towards league one, suddenly it’s not so great. 

There was a big tell in Holden’s thinking. When you look at the last team he put out when he desperately needed the result, he put out all the experience. 

In short, it’s great playing the academy products, but they’re not yet consistent enough to be regulars IMO. 

I raised my concerns regarding Moore and Vyner after the Norwich game and got crucified for thinking they are nowhere near good enough. I still stand by this and feel they are part of the problem. 

I’d say all of Bakinson, Vyner and Moore would be decent L1 players currently but bottom to middle championship players and it shows. 

I cannot agree more regarding consistency and for me the only constant with Moore and Vyner is mistakes. 

Personally don’t see them making next season here. 

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Moore hasnt looked the same since the loan to Blackpool, confidence looks iffy and hes trying too hard IMO, maybe putting a bit too much pressure on himself and cracking under it. I think the loan to Blackpool was a mistake, after he had finally started to look like he was going to be a player at this level, even went knocking on the managers door to ask to be stand in captain. His reward for progress and desire was to be shunted off down a division, just so we could bring in benkovic to get very few minutes, and "go for the play offs" which we didnt make anyway. These days he has regressed massively and is constantly under pressure along with the rest of the defence, especially playing left side in a side with no natural left back.

 

Vyner was looking very promising as a defender this season, earlier on looked like he could be a mainstay. Now hes moved to midfield, got found out after a few games because it probably isnt his best position and should be back in defence to take Moore out of the firing line a bit. 

 

Bakinson had a lightning start, but hasnt had time to develop the mental side of his game, certainly not at this level. What he really needed in my opinion was 20 odd appearances, mostly either rotation option or off the bench to gain experience and improve. Not be chucked in at the deep end in a team that cant string 3 passes together then dropped when it turns out he isnt pirlo.

 

Semenyo looks raw but decent and is the only player in the squad capable of beating a man more than once every 2 games so we may as well play him, I said earlier in the season he needed to be smarter about when he shot vs laying it off, boy was I wrong now we just dont shoot at all.

 

As for Massengo, a year and a half at the club and nobody has any idea what his best position is. Asked to play everywhere across the midfield with no match fitness, not seen in the team for weeks at a time, then when he finally does have some promising spells, instead of nurturing it, enjoying it, or simply working with it to try and get something going, he just gets binned off again. All at the age of 19? Brilliant coaching, that.

 

Its vital we bring in the right manager/head coach whatever to manage these young players careers properly, not even just for this batch but the next one, and the next one. Young players at our academy and importantly the people that influence them will be looking at that "player pathway" everyone is harping on about, because it's not just about giving them minutes, it's about developing their careers. 

 

What motivation are we giving players like Britton as an example to stay at us rather than go to west Brom or whoever was linked with him?

 

This is the problem I personally have with our approach to youth at the moment. Simply giving them minutes on the pitch is not enough, they need to be coached and developed, not just chuckes on the pitch with no apparent long term plan for them.

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