The Scouse Iniesta

[Hampshire Red]

Headlinegrabbing nickname for a player few of us have seen much. He played a few games at 'Lowvil' on loan and about 15 games for us where he looked neat and tidy in his passing, unable to win headers (only 1.6m tall) nor tackles. In fact many of us thought he was lightweight and resemmbled Lee J in midfield.

However, in the desperation to find excuses for Dean (and Lee before him) many people on this forum thought he and Williams (who we have seen even less of) would hav e made a difference to our great start this season - remember we were top 6

So my question is how will NP see the Scouse Iniesta and the Scouse Lampard (Joe Williams) in comparison with; the experience and skills of KP, the undoubted forward-passing strength of Bako, the incredible ball skills of Massengo, the proven skills of Pato and CoD, our International Nagy who could (IMO) become player of the season and the return of Weimann, who we have missed so badly this season? He may even want to bring in his own trusted midfielder. What a delight for NP to work with and i could have put another 5 players into WB positions. Certainly plenty of rotation opportunities for the remainder of this season which may well be a chance  for NP to form matchday views. Either way it surely means half of this contingent will be finding their employment elsewhere in 3 months.

Who would you keep, based on what you have seen, not what you have read or the nicknames they have been given by agents and journos

[GrahamC]

I would want to see some actual evidence Walsh is good enough for Championship football before going in for these silly nicknames.

You know, being fit for more than a couple of weeks would be nice & playing well against sides stronger than Rochdale or Rovers.

So far he has started 7 league games for us at this level & looked so so. Loads of people were making similar claims about Morrell, he has barely featured for Luton.

Until I see some actual proof rather than hyperbole I’m not even convinced I’d offer him another deal.

[Phileas Fogg]

I'd keep Williams, Massengo, Nagy, Walsh and Bakinson. Over the course of the season you'd probably want an additional player in there with some experience. Hopefully more effective than Brunt or Lansbury.

I'm fairly indifferent about Paterson/Palmer/O'Dowda. All have ability but largely depends on the system we're going to play. Likewise Weimann, if he comes back and looks good I'd rather he was played as a forward than midfielder. 

[Galway Red]

8 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Headlinegrabbing nickname for a player few of us have seen much. He played a few games at 'Lowvil' on loan and about 15 games for us where he looked neat and tidy in his passing, unable to win headers (only 1.6m tall) nor tackles. In fact many of us thought he was lightweight and resemmbled Lee J in midfield.

However, in the desperation to find excuses for Dean (and Lee before him) many people on this forum thought he and Williams (who we have seen even less of) would hav e made a difference to our great start this season - remember we were top 6

So my question is how will NP see the Scouse Iniesta and the Scouse Lampard (Joe Williams) in comparison with; the experience and skills of KP, the undoubted forward-passing strength of Bako, the incredible ball skills of Massengo, the proven skills of Pato and CoD, our International Nagy who could (IMO) become player of the season and the return of Weimann, who we have missed so badly this season? He may even want to bring in his own trusted midfielder. What a delight for NP to work with and i could have put another 5 players into WB positions. Certainly plenty of rotation opportunities for the remainder of this season which may well be a chance  for NP to form matchday views. Either way it surely means half of this contingent will be finding their employment elsewhere in 3 months.

Who would you keep, based on what you have seen, not what you have read or the nicknames they have been given by agents and journos

It won't take him long to suss Paterson and Cod out

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I would want to see some actual evidence Walsh is good enough for Championship football before going in for these silly nicknames.

You know, being fit for more than a couple of weeks would be nice & playing well against sides stronger than Rochdale or Rovers.

So far he has started 7 league games for us at this level & looked so so. Loads of people were making similar claims about Morrell, he has barely featured for Luton.

Until I see some actual proof rather than hyperbole I’m not even convinced I’d offer him another deal.

Not offering Walsh a new deal would be crazy in my opinion. Sometimes you can’t get cold hard proof and have to trust what you know. We know he has shown glimpses of brilliance in a city shirt and we know he was outstanding in league one.  I would say most that are the latter then go on to be good championship players.  I’ve never got the Morrell love in on here and have said that a fair few times so don’t see any comparison with Walsh

My worry is that Walsh will want to leave and I can’t see him in the squad for next season. 

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I'd keep Williams, Massengo, Nagy, Walsh and Bakinson. Over the course of the season you'd probably want an additional player in there with some experience. Hopefully more effective than Brunt or Lansbury.

I'm fairly indifferent about Paterson/Palmer/O'Dowda. All have ability but largely depends on the system we're going to play. Likewise Weimann, if he comes back and looks good I'd rather he was played as a forward than midfielder. 

That is a strong five but I would add COD to that. Can play in a number of positions and was playing very well this season before his latest injury.

Not fussed with Weimann and would look to sell Palmer at the moment. I would give him a run of games now though and see if he can string 3-4 good games together.  Paterson too inconsistent for me so would let him go 

[Phileas Fogg]

8 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

That is a strong five but I would add COD to that. Can play in a number of positions and was playing very well this season before his latest injury.

Not fussed with Weimann and would look to sell Palmer at the moment. I would give him a run of games now though and see if he can string 3-4 good games together.  Paterson too inconsistent for me so would let him go 

I've never really rated CO'D - perhaps slightly unfair on my part - but can appreciate his versatility. It depends on what sort of system we're going to play. I think he could be very effective as a LM as part of a 4-2-3-1.

I agree on Palmer and Paterson. I imagine both are on decent money too. If we're going to play a 4-2-3-1 or similar than both might be good in the central attacking mid role.. Both highly inconsistent of course. 

[red panda]

5 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

That is a strong five but I would add COD to that. Can play in a number of positions and was playing very well this season before his latest injury.

Not fussed with Weimann and would look to sell Palmer at the moment. I would give him a run of games now though and see if he can string 3-4 good games together.  Paterson too inconsistent for me so would let him go 

As others have said, it depends how we play in future, but I think we've missed Weimann more than any other player (perhaps as much as the rest of them put together).  Before his injury, some posters dismissed his contribution as "just running around", but he had a huge effect on how much energy we played with and how much freedom the opposition had.

His injury has been massive for us (and him obviously), but on the other hand - had he not got injured we might have still had DH as manager 

[steviestevieneville]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I've never really rated CO'D - perhaps slightly unfair on my part - but can appreciate his versatility. It depends on what sort of system we're going to play. I think he could be very effective as a LM as part of a 4-2-3-1.

I agree on Palmer and Paterson. I imagine both are on decent money too. If we're going to play a 4-2-3-1 or similar than both might be good in the central attacking mid role.. Both highly inconsistent of course. 

Feel the same about COD  . His decision making is generally poor & runs into trouble because he doesn’t play with his head up, also gets pushed off the ball too easy , doesn’t shield the ball well . Which at championship level is not good enough 

[Robbored]

If/when Big Nige has a fully fit midfield to select from I think that like most managers he’ll look to see who’s impressing most in training.

Both Pato and Palmer can pick a pass and be creative. Nagy and Williams can win the ball, CoD has quick feet, is pacy and imo best played wide - problem tho is that he hasn’t shown much of either before he got injured.

Not seen anywhere like enough of Walsh to make a proper evaluation of what he might bring.

Plus Big Nige hasn’t managed any City games so far so we don’t know whether he likes to pack midfield or prefers a different shape. Maybe he’ll adopt a more adaptable shape game on game.........

Nice headache to have should it ever arise.

[Ska Junkie]

I have to say, I thought Adam Nagy was very good on Tuesday, possibly his best game for us. Maybe it was the fact he had Bakinson holding behind him that gave him the licence to get forward more.

If he's still here after the summer (are Hungary at the Euros?), I can't see a City midfield without AN, injuries permitting.

[Davefevs]

Quite simply, we can only judge Walsh when he plays.  For a player LJ said was ready to compete when he joined us in Jan 2018 for best part of £1m, we’ve yet to see anywhere near enough in a City shirt.  I do feel that a lot of the opinion is based on 45 mins v Stoke.

Both Walsh and Morrell were standouts for their respective teams last season in the league below, so it’s really tough to judge based on that.  Both, very different playing styles too.

We’ve left ourselves in a difficult situation contract wise, but it is what it is.  It’s easy to say give him an extension / new deal, but it also depends on what he wants.  Rumours that he was on £9k per week when signing.  Is improving that justifiable in current climate?

All we can hope is that he gets himself back playing and everything falls into place.  But it wouldn’t surprise me if he isn’t here next season either.  Difficult to call.

[sh1t_ref_again]

Did Walsh play in the U23 game the other day? not seen any comment on it or how he played

[tin]

Purely from a business perspective, not offering Walsh a new deal would be madness. He's got exactly the sort of profile of player (came through a PL academy, young with resale value etc) who we should be going for, IMO, rather than the Lansburys or Brunts. He's very likely to improve and be at least a good Championship player, so giving him two years with the option of another is low-risk. 

I'd be keeping Nagy, Bakinson, Williams and Walsh for next season, the dury's out on Palmer but (much like the above) I'd keep him over Paterson. Then look to add one more, eg Mowatt at Barnsley. 

[Monkeh]

14 minutes ago, tin said:

Purely from a business perspective, not offering Walsh a new deal would be madness. He's got exactly the sort of profile of player (came through a PL academy, young with resale value etc) who we should be going for, IMO, rather than the Lansburys or Brunts. He's very likely to improve and be at least a good Championship player, so giving him two years with the option of another is low-risk. 

I'd be keeping Nagy, Bakinson, Williams and Walsh for next season, the dury's out on Palmer but (much like the above) I'd keep him over Paterson. Then look to add one more, eg Mowatt at Barnsley. 

True but on the other hand handing out contracts to players who spend more time in the treatment room then on the pitch, not only blocks the pathway to young players that may be worth a gamble but also takes up the wage budget when we need to be a bit more frugal due to the covid impact,

Personally I'd offer him a 12 month extention with a clause in it to extend that by another year or two if he meets a threshold on number of games played

Would give him a chance to prove himself (and he does need to do that as he has hardly played at this level) and we wouldn't be burdened with another long contract to an injury prone player that we can't shift if things go wrong

[RedNachos]

The transition between L1 and the Champ is clearly different for every player. Toney has lit up the league after a L1 move, Szmodics didn't. So we sell Szmodics, then he proves his quality in league one and I reckon would be a player some would be calling for us to sign now if he hadn't played for us. We need to give Walsh patience to show his quality instead of binning him off, part of that is stopping signing shit like Lansbury and Brunt.

[Prinny]

Without seeing Walsh at champ level it's such a hard situation to judge. His lack of physical ability could be a problem or it could be fine. He could overcome it in league one by just being better, can he stand up to ultra powerful ex prem/on prem wages midfielders?

Then you have who else is here, and that we have Bakinson and Massengo, who we're also trying to develop, never mind the Morton's etc Who are you giving minutes to and taking them from? Palmer? Nagy? Williams? Bakinson? Massengo? Where does Walsh stack up long term and short term vs them? Where can he even play? 10? 8? 6? 

So we have a guy who was number one on what we want from L1 midfielders, who's not proven anything at this level. But then he's shown enough and probably already has one club who also want him, which means it's unlikely he'll have to settle for a cheap/short deal to prove himself here.

Add to that the person who would assumedly be best to judge that talent, isn't currently here past the summer. What if Pearson sucks. We can't use his recommendation as a basis for contracts then.

So what's critical is we have whoever correctly analyse how good he is, we set a price point, and we're prepared to walk away. This is one of the biggest if not the biggest reasons I wanted Holden gone, because I didn't trust his talent ID ability. And If we get it wrong, he leaves for nothing, and has a good career, even more so than other signings, the club will get destroyed from a PR point of view, so we might panic and offer too much.

Real hard situation.

[The Bard]

23 minutes ago, tin said:

Purely from a business perspective, not offering Walsh a new deal would be madness. He's got exactly the sort of profile of player (came through a PL academy, young with resale value etc) who we should be going for, IMO, rather than the Lansburys or Brunts. He's very likely to improve and be at least a good Championship player, so giving him two years with the option of another is low-risk. 

I'd be keeping Nagy, Bakinson, Williams and Walsh for next season, the dury's out on Palmer but (much like the above) I'd keep him over Paterson. Then look to add one more, eg Mowatt at Barnsley. 

When are people going to get it in their heads that the transfer fee is now a much lesser consideration than it was pre-covid. The bubble has well and truly burst unless you have a Jude Bellingham in your Academy.

 

Clubs are clearing their decks and there will be a lot of ooc players who will be the main focus for incomings.  The ship has sailed with Walsh's 'value' due mainly to his unavailability but also the financial ramifications of Covid.

Decision whether or not to offer him a contract should be entirely based on football. His value would be minimal unless we give him a 3/4 year deal.

[Super]

Wouldn't be bothered if he left.

[RedNachos]

Just now, Super said:

Wouldn't be bothered if he left.

Reckon that's probably the same attitude people had towards Szmodics, I reckon you'd like him back ahead of Lansbury.

[KegCity]

58 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Feel the same about COD  . His decision making is generally poor & runs into trouble because he doesn’t play with his head up, also gets pushed off the ball too easy , doesn’t shield the ball well . Which at championship level is not good enough 

I agree, he's got the talent but seems to struggle to use it consistently. He's been at the club for a long time now and never really had a strong run for more than a few games.

 

35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Quite simply, we can only judge Walsh when he plays.  For a player LJ said was ready to compete when he joined us in Jan 2018 for best part of £1m, we’ve yet to see anywhere near enough in a City shirt.  I do feel that a lot of the opinion is based on 45 mins v Stoke.

Both Walsh and Morrell were standouts for their respective teams last season in the league below, so it’s really tough to judge based on that.  Both, very different playing styles too.

We’ve left ourselves in a difficult situation contract wise, but it is what it is.  It’s easy to say give him an extension / new deal, but it also depends on what he wants.  Rumours that he was on £9k per week when signing.  Is improving that justifiable in current climate?

All we can hope is that he gets himself back playing and everything falls into place.  But it wouldn’t surprise me if he isn’t here next season either.  Difficult to call.

I thought Walsh looked tidy off the bench against Man City and was then never seen again. Also thought he looked good against Stoke and was then dropped. Unfortunately not seen enough to warrant a mega new deal, but I do think there's the potential for Walsh to be a real player.

[AG City]

I really can't understand why people say we should 'sell' Palmer, O'Dowda, Weimann and Nagy. 

Sell to who exactly? 

Weimann has another year option which will probably mean he is here for another season.

No one is going to be paying a transfer fee in the current climate, let alone match the wages these players are currently on.  I would release Walsh as well as Lansbury who both in all honesty have delivered very little.  

 

[Super]

1 minute ago, RedNachos said:

Reckon that's probably the same attitude people had towards Szmodics, I reckon you'd like him back ahead of Lansbury.

That was a bizarre signing tbh.

[Murraysrightplum]

COD adds pace and an outlet, which we have definitely missed. I would appreciate more end product from him but if he was consistent with that he’d not be with us long!

Weiman... not sure. Bags of energy and drive. Knows where the onion bag is. His injury/absence has coincided with significant loss of form from the team. Hard to know with him

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, AG City said:

I really can't understand why people say we should 'sell' Palmer, O'Dowda, Weimann and Nagy. 

Sell to who exactly? 

Weimann has another year option which will probably mean he is here for another season.

No one is going to be paying a transfer fee in the current climate, let alone match the wages these players are currently on.  I would release Walsh as well as Lansbury who both in all honesty have delivered very little.  

 

You are spot on.

There is a slight chance we could get money for Nagy, if he does well in the Euros & because he probably fits in to continental European sides, but otherwise the market is completely dead, no one at our level is spending at all.

Weimann is an interesting one, we do have an option for another year, which my hunch is that we would like to take up, but as a rumoured top 3 earner he might need to take a cut to get another deal or back himself to be offered it elsewhere & go.

[Major Isewater]

31 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

True but on the other hand handing out contracts to players who spend more time in the treatment room then on the pitch, not only blocks the pathway to young players that may be worth a gamble but also takes up the wage budget when we need to be a bit more frugal due to the covid impact,

Personally I'd offer him a 12 month extention with a clause in it to extend that by another year or two if he meets a threshold on number of games played

Would give him a chance to prove himself (and he does need to do that as he has hardly played at this level) and we wouldn't be burdened with another long contract to an injury prone player that we can't shift if things go wrong

Get him to sign a ‘ pay as you play’ deal. 
 

[Davefevs]

Basically every post is correctly saying there are pros and cons to the Walsh situation, and risks of evaluating his ability based on him barely playing at this level.

Based on where we are today, with one u23 appearance under his belt, a new manager who hasn’t seen him up close, it’s a tough decision.

@tin - as a black and white question - would you re-contract Walsh over going and getting another Brunt or Lansbury?  In my opinion, like you, 100% yes.

However, would you re-contract him over a different 21-24 year-old midfielder who you think might be equally as good or better and the same cost or cheaper?  Not necessarily.

This is where I want to see a clear plan and execution of that plan.

Ideally, his contract should never get to its final year, unless you’ve decided you’re letting him go.  Poor from club.

[Chrisbc]

19 minutes ago, AG City said:

I really can't understand why people say we should 'sell' Palmer, O'Dowda, Weimann and Nagy. 

Sell to who exactly? 

Weimann has another year option which will probably mean he is here for another season.

No one is going to be paying a transfer fee in the current climate, let alone match the wages these players are currently on.  I would release Walsh as well as Lansbury who both in all honesty have delivered very little.  

 

The vast majority of championship clubs will be spending transfer fees in the summer.

[LondonBristolian]

I think the fact is, until he is fit, we just don't know. 

I think he's shown glimpses of potential in his appearances with us and did really well at Coventry. I really hope he is fit and match-ready as soon as possible.

I then hope NP makes a decision based on what he does in training and in any opportunities he gets rather than based on pre-conceptions. He may or may not be good enough but I think it will be a real shame if he leaves before we get a chance to find out if he is good enough for sure. 

At the same time, I think Palmer, Nagy and Bakinson did enough against Middlesboro for them to currently hold the shirts. If they keep their standards at that level, they should be the three players starting (when fit) and the challenge should be for Walsh, Williams, Massengo, COD and Lansbury to fight their way into the team. 

[Garland-sweden]

Think Palmer is one of our startingplayers. He is creative and now also fight in defence. We will see what NP selects. For me Palmer and Nagy is very good players.