The Scouse Iniesta

[KegCity]

42 minutes ago, AG City said:

I really can't understand why people say we should 'sell' Palmer, O'Dowda, Weimann and Nagy. 

Sell to who exactly? 

Weimann has another year option which will probably mean he is here for another season.

No one is going to be paying a transfer fee in the current climate, let alone match the wages these players are currently on.  I would release Walsh as well as Lansbury who both in all honesty have delivered very little.  

 

The only player who should be on their way out from that list is COD, but as you say we'll struggle to recoup any of what we paid. Nagy, Palmer and Weimann are three of the best players at the club in terms of pure ability, would be madness to sell them for a reduced fee.

[WECANDO]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

That is a strong five but I would add COD to that. Can play in a number of positions and was playing very well this season before his latest injury.

Not fussed with Weimann and would look to sell Palmer at the moment. I would give him a run of games now though and see if he can string 3-4 good games together.  Paterson too inconsistent for me so would let him go 

Paterson can definitely go but Palmer has played well in the last 2 games. Weiman with his pace and energy is worth keeping.

[WECANDO]

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

The only player who should be on their way out from that list is COD, but as you say we'll struggle to recoup any of what we paid. Nagy, Palmer and Weimann are three of the best players at the club in terms of pure ability, would be madness to sell them for a reduced fee.

COD has pace and skill and when confident, is a real handful. Hooegully Pearson will get him playing well.

Just now, WECANDO said:

Hopefully 

 

[Monkeh]

37 minutes ago, Chrisbc said:

The vast majority of championship clubs will be spending transfer fees in the summer.

No, the ones with parachute payments will the rest won't and will be extremely frugal, we've already seen it this season, how many massive transfers were there?

Brentford mad a big outlay because they got massive money in,

The finances in football have changed beyond recognition, unless clubs raise money through massive sales or have huge parachute payments then the likes of us spending 5 million on fammy just will not happen 

[And Its Smith]

17 minutes ago, WECANDO said:

Paterson can definitely go but Palmer has played well in the last 2 games. Weiman with his pace and energy is worth keeping.

He has but he needs to do it over more than two games. We aren’t going up or down so hopefully he gets a run now and we can see if can consistently perform 

[And Its Smith]

21 minutes ago, KegCity said:

The only player who should be on their way out from that list is COD, but as you say we'll struggle to recoup any of what we paid. Nagy, Palmer and Weimann are three of the best players at the club in terms of pure ability, would be madness to sell them for a reduced fee.

Would be madness to sell COD for a reduced fee as well

[JoeAman08]

While he probably needs a good loan somewhere, I’d be happy for Walsh to leave and Morton to take any available minutes. This is assuming we keep everyone under contract next season. I’d offer Walsh a new deal if say Massengo was wanting to head back to Europe. 

[And Its Smith]

Just now, JoeAman08 said:

While he probably needs a good loan somewhere, I’d be happy for Walsh to leave and Morton to take any available minutes. This is assuming we keep everyone under contract next season. I’d offer Walsh a new deal if say Massengo was wanting to head back to Europe. 

Why do you think Walsh needs a good loan somewhere when he had one last season?

[JoeAman08]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Why do you think Walsh needs a good loan somewhere when he had one last season?

No meant Morton. Sorry wasn’t that clear. Morton probably needs a full season somewhere but if he stayed and took some minutes here and there be happy to see if he gets better. Be cheaper and not sure Walsh is in our best 3 midfielders now so why pay him like a regular?
 

Like I said not that straight forward ever. That said, with salary cap possibly coming in, I’d rather us pay our regulars and use these academy lads as rotation/backups. Morton fits that and has played league football so possibly not miles away. 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

He has but he needs to do it over more than two games. We aren’t going up or down so hopefully he gets a run now and we can see if can consistently perform 

Same could be said for most of our players...we are the epitome of consistently inconsistent as a team and a bunch of individuals.  Lots of mitigating reasons though.

I think that we judge (fairly or unfairly) the likes of Palmer on Paterson (our supposed creative players) on goals and assists alone.  Palmer was a vital cog on Tuesday night, yet rarely (if at all) came close to scoring or assisting....yet imho still had a good game individually.  It was his efforts without the ball that surprised many.

We use terms like “he’s a 1 in 5, 1 in 10 player”, but base this on goals / assists assumptions.  Pato (for example) has actually been a 2 in 5 since he arrived here, if you want to use stats.  In a 40 game season if he got 8 goals and 8 assists (or combo of) on that basis I’d say he’d had a productive season.  This season 4 goals and 2 assists in the equivalent of 16 matches is pretty decent....and on the money for 2 in 5.

From a performance perspective, I think he contributes more often than the 1 in 5, 1 in 10.  But that’s subjectivity coming in.  He was very influential early season.

[Rudolf Hucker]

20 minutes ago, WECANDO said:

COD has pace and skill and when confident, is a real handful.

Waiting for the occasional day when COD demonstrates his pace and skill, and proves himself to be a handful to the opposition, is so frustrating. He performs so anonymously, so often, failing to make a mark on games, that I’ve given up on him. He had a couple of ok games before his injury but I honestly struggle to think of a motm performance he’s turned in for us - and not just this season. I can’t imagine him playing a regular part in a promotion winning side. 
 

I think that we have to move him on (if we can). 

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

While he probably needs a good loan somewhere, I’d be happy for Walsh to leave and Morton to take any available minutes. This is assuming we keep everyone under contract next season. I’d offer Walsh a new deal if say Massengo was wanting to head back to Europe. 

Be interested to know what you base that on re Morton, who is 22 in April & look at his loan spells so far;

Forest Green 7 starts, 5 as sub, came back early.

Grimsby 4 starts, 3 as sub, came back early.

Gillingham, just 1 appearance as a 90th minute sub so far, he’s been with them for 5 games, in contrast Cundy has started every single game (7) since he has been there.

This suggests much as we would all like him to succeed, he is struggling to establish himself, even at L2.

[Simon bristol]

1 hour ago, Chrisbc said:

The vast majority of championship clubs will be spending transfer fees in the summer.

Seems unlikely to me, their losses for this year will be horrific, the only ones who might spend a bit are relegated clubs with parachute payments, 2 of which would be sheff u and west brom. Perhaps someone might offer 1-2 mill for palmer, but they will also have to pick up his wages, which seems optimistic to me?

until we can produce another 10-20 million player, to sell and provide the finance for a few 1-2 million players of our own, we are relying on SL for transfer fees, and he is covering a few million per month in losses himself at the moment, and probably not inclined to throw more at players while we have got a bench full of academy players

[And Its Smith]

8 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

No meant Morton. Sorry wasn’t that clear. Morton probably needs a full season somewhere but if he stayed and took some minutes here and there be happy to see if he gets better. Be cheaper and not sure Walsh is in our best 3 midfielders now so why pay him like a regular?
 

Like I said not that straight forward ever. That said, with salary cap possibly coming in, I’d rather us pay our regulars and use these academy lads as rotation/backups. Morton fits that and has played league football so possibly not miles away. 

Agreed on Morton. He needs to go to a club who needs his sort of player and will play him. The next year is big for him.  

[Unan]

League One player of the season last year, ahead of Toney . Not saying he's better, I don't think he is, but it'd be mad to let him go for free.

[The Bard]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Be interested to know what you base that on re Morton, who is 22 in April & look at his loan spells so far;

Forest Green 7 starts, 5 as sub, came back early.

Grimsby 4 starts, 3 as sub, came back early.

Gillingham, just 1 appearance as a 90th minute sub so far, he’s been with them for 5 games, in contrast Cundy has started every single game (7) since he has been there.

This suggests much as we would all like him to succeed, he is struggling to establish himself, even at L2.

Morton has a very good left foot but maybe a little lightweight. Like Tinman was. He's not what most league 1/2 managers need though.

[David Brent]

You can’t miss what you never had. Would have been nice to have Walsh available this season but I wouldn’t be offering him a contract just yet. 

[Ska Junkie]

10 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Waiting for the occasional day when COD demonstrates his pace and skill, and proves himself to be a handful to the opposition, is so frustrating. He performs so anonymously, so often, failing to make a mark on games, that I’ve given up on him. He had a couple of ok games before his injury but I honestly struggle to think of a motm performance he’s turned in for us - and not just this season. I can’t imagine him playing a regular part in a promotion winning side. 
 

I think that we have to move him on (if we can). 

Now's his opportunity to stand up Rudi. He's not a kid anymore so it's about time we saw a consistently good COD, if he wants a Championship / PL career. If he doesn't do it now, with a new, proven Manager, he will nosedive back to L1 I would guess. 

[tin]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

True but on the other hand handing out contracts to players who spend more time in the treatment room then on the pitch, not only blocks the pathway to young players that may be worth a gamble but also takes up the wage budget when we need to be a bit more frugal due to the covid impact,

Personally I'd offer him a 12 month extention with a clause in it to extend that by another year or two if he meets a threshold on number of games played

Would give him a chance to prove himself (and he does need to do that as he has hardly played at this level) and we wouldn't be burdened with another long contract to an injury prone player that we can't shift if things go wrong

I'd be happy with the club offering him a year with the option of another 12 months like you said. The pathway, however, exists for players like Walsh to come through, develop in the first team and be sold on. 

Like Williams, Weimann and numerous others before 2018, Walsh doesn't exactly have a track record for spending more time in the treatment room. That's a different issue altogether, IMO. 

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

When are people going to get it in their heads that the transfer fee is now a much lesser consideration than it was pre-covid. The bubble has well and truly burst unless you have a Jude Bellingham in your Academy.

Clubs are clearing their decks and there will be a lot of ooc players who will be the main focus for incomings.  The ship has sailed with Walsh's 'value' due mainly to his unavailability but also the financial ramifications of Covid.

Decision whether or not to offer him a contract should be entirely based on football. His value would be minimal unless we give him a 3/4 year deal.

As long as a player is under contract, transfer fees will be a significant consideration. The transfer fee will obviously be lower than the previous norm. 

Walsh's value has depreciated significantly mainly because the club has allowed his contract to run down when, IMO, there is minimal risk in offering a short extension with the option of another year if he can prove himself at this level. 

[Chrisbc]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

No, the ones with parachute payments will the rest won't and will be extremely frugal, we've already seen it this season, how many massive transfers were there?

Brentford mad a big outlay because they got massive money in,

The finances in football have changed beyond recognition, unless clubs raise money through massive sales or have huge parachute payments then the likes of us spending 5 million on fammy just will not happen 

You're missing my point. I'm not saying they will spend large sums - I'm saying clubs will spend money, likely to be far less than previous years.

The notion that the majority  in this league will exclusively sign those OOC and spend £0 on players is just not true.

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, Chrisbc said:

You're missing my point. I'm not saying they will spend large sums - I'm saying clubs will spend money, likely to be far less than previous years.

The notion that the majority  in this league will exclusively sign those OOC and spend £0 on players is just not true.

Nah it is true there are alot of players at alot of clubs ooc, have a look on other forums and you will see similar,

 

[Chrisbc]

4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Nah it is true there are alot of players at alot of clubs ooc, have a look on other forums and you will see similar,

 

Of course there are a lot of players out of contract. This notion that clubs won't spend limited funds though is nonsense as you will see in the summer. 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Agreed on Morton. He needs to go to a club who needs his sort of player and will play him. The next year is big for him.  

Just waiting for Ian to call BBCRB and describe him as “6 foot 1, 11 1/2 stone, lovely left foot and likes a tackle”!!!

[Monkeh]

8 minutes ago, Chrisbc said:

Of course there are a lot of players out of contract. This notion that clubs won't spend limited funds though is nonsense as you will see in the summer. 

 

The list of clubs spending money will be a small one,

You look at the amount of clubs on a sticky wicket financely this season,

Birmingham Wednesday Stoke Blackburn Millwall Barnsley, I could go on, they all haven't got a pot to piss in

[Chrisbc]

6 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

The list of clubs spending money will be a small one,

You look at the amount of clubs on a sticky wicket financely this season,

Birmingham Wednesday Stoke Blackburn Millwall Barnsley, I could go on, they all haven't got a pot to piss in

So now the goalposts are shifting - SL has already come out and says money is available to be spent on transfers - we don't have parachute payments. 

The clubs who will spend money is not a small one.....the amount they will spend though will be small.

[Fordy62]

Walsh?

Five year deal and make him captain. If he’s on 9k, then increase it to whatever he wants and pay for a taxi for Jamie Paterson to wherever he wants. 

We’ve not seen enough of LW to say he isn’t good enough so he’s a real gamble to let go. We’ve seen more than enough of Jamie Paterson to see that he turns up about as often as Lee Johnson accepted responsibility for a loss.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Scouse iniesta? Hes not even the scouse Marlon Pack at the moment who makes this shit up

[Ska Junkie]

5 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Scouse iniesta? Hes not even the scouse Marlon Pack at the moment who makes this shit up

The Coventry fans named him that in defence Wolfie, not one of ours.

[Unan]

1 hour ago, David Brent said:

You can’t miss what you never had. Would have been nice to have Walsh available this season but I wouldn’t be offering him a contract just yet. 

Tell my Mrs that 

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Be interested to know what you base that on re Morton, who is 22 in April & look at his loan spells so far;

Forest Green 7 starts, 5 as sub, came back early.

Grimsby 4 starts, 3 as sub, came back early.

Gillingham, just 1 appearance as a 90th minute sub so far, he’s been with them for 5 games, in contrast Cundy has started every single game (7) since he has been there.

This suggests much as we would all like him to succeed, he is struggling to establish himself, even at L2.

Did say he needs a loan. The fact the club gave him a 4 year deal during that Forest Green spell is enough for me. Also think with his play style, L2 isn’t the best fit for him. Like Bakinson I could see him taking to a higher level of football with midfielders involved more on the ball.