Who needs shipping out in the summer?

[GrahamC]

28 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

I don't believe that strike force has the quality to get promotion, just my opinion. They don't score enough goals, famara was the only consistent and and not replacing him with a quality striker I think will be a massive mistake.

Absolutely entitled to your opinion but Wells scoring record at this level is at least as good as Famara.

He is clearly harder to warm to, but in the right formation will get goals.

Martin is an odd one, link up play is very good but either seems to have a season where he gets 2 or 15.

Weimann’s mobility, relative pace and team play make him ideal in my opinion.

If we do play with just one up top those behind need to contribute far more goals, for me only Paterson (if he stays) looks like doing that for me.

[The Bard]

20 minutes ago, mozo said:

 

Massively agree with these points. Baker should be replaced by a left footed ball playing centre back in the 23-28 age range.

We also need a striker who is competent in and around the box and can lead the line on his own if required.

I appreciate there isn't a showroom that we walk in and pick off the shelf, but frankly, if these two recruitment needs (plus a right back) haven't been thoroughly researched, if not already all but tied up, then it just highlights how appalling our succession planning is. 

We should be in a position whereby Pearson can ask for options on striker recruitment and be presented with 3/4 thoroughly scouted options. If not, what the hell has our recruitment set up been doing in the past 12 months? 

Dominic Hyam - Coventry City

[LondonBristolian]

19 hours ago, Davefevs said:

My squad to take into pre-season (ages at 30.06 / contract end), based on who I think might react well to Pearson over the coming weeks and those who won’t.  Also assumes fitness for some.  It is a starting point, and availability of players elsewhere might see one in one out.

GKs: (2)

Bentley (27 / 2023): first choice, will probably attract interest, but NP to convince him to play a part in a new City

O’Leary (24 / 2023): able deputy

RBs: (1)

Vyner (24 / 2023): versatile, but until we know who else may come in, then RB.

LBs: (2)

Dasilva (23 / 2023): get him fit, 1st choice, important to possession based style

Pring (23 / 2023): back up, although possibility of the right LB is available that you might move him on.  But not a priority area due to other LBs in u23s.

CBs: (4)

Kalas (28 / 2023): 1st choice CB

Baker (30 / 2 year deal): assuming fit by end of season, offer two year deal on reduced wages

Moore (24 / 2023): if you can bring in the right CB, look to move on

Cundy (24 / option): take option and use pre-season to assess future

Midfielders: (6)

Williams (24 / 2024): gonna be a key player

Bakinson (22 / 2022): think NP will change his mindset.  Extend contract too, only a year left

O’Dowda (26 / 2022): think he will respond to NP. Extend contract too (you may be surprised by me saying this, but I think he has ability!)

Walsh (23 / 3 year deal): same as two above

Palmer (24 / 2023): we are starting to see what he can bring, let Paterson go

Massengo (19 / 2023): use in more attacking roles.

Forwards: (4)

Wells (31 / 2023): gonna be first choice

Weimann (29 / 2 year deal): versatile, energetic, what NP likes

Martin (32 / 2022): use more sensibly, to rotate others

Semenyo (21 / 2023): make him better!

Areas to recruit:

Right Back

Centre Back

Midfield (can play inside or outside)

Striker (succession planning)

u23: loans for some / most

Nurse (22 / 2023)

Towler (19 / extend this summer)

Morton (22 / 2023)

Z.Smith (20 / extend)

Bell (19 / extend)

Pearson (19 / extend)

Ow.Edwards (20 / 2022)

Op.Edwards (22 / option)

Scott (18 / tbc long term)

Janneh (21 / 2023)

Conway (18 / extend)

Look to Sell:

Nagy (26 / 2022): use Euros as shop window, recoup as much as you can

Let go:

Gilmartin (34 - OOC): coaching contract

Wollacott (24 - OOC): don’t take option

Hunt (30 - OOC)

Webb (20 - OOC):

Rowe (32 - OOC): with a heavy heart

Mariappa (34 - OOC)

Adelakun (24 - OOC): don’t take option

Watkins (30 - OOC)

Lansbury (30 - OOC)

Paterson (29 - OOC)

Hinds (22 - OOC): don’t take option

Diedhiou (28 - OOC)

other considerations:

Assess strength of u23 keepers, Robertson and Wiles-Richards as keeper cover

 

Agree with much of that but with the following changes:

1) I'd rather we got two RBs in and used Vyner in central defence

2) I'm not convinced on offering Baker a deal.

3) I think that would leave us quite light in midfield - as those six include central and wide players. That might mean we'd need more signings or to use more of the under 23s.

4) I want to see how Nagy responds to NP between now and the end of the season. 

[MarcusX]

38 minutes ago, The Bard said:

You did so well Dave, but Baker can absolutely do one for me.  Get a player in who will play more than 20 games a season .

38, 34,38,17 (webster season),37. Average of almost 33 a season which is a little harsh given the season with Webster here he just wasn't first choice. Even with zero this season that's an average of 27 per season

Last season I think he had almost 100% availability. The games he didn't play I believe he was dropped not injured, then picked up that hamstring injury at Stoke and never recovered - though given the amount of these this season I'm not sure its fair to blame NB for that. Appears to be another mismanaged injury as he's been delayed further than first announced. It's simply a myth that he has poor availability, but fair to say performances lack consistency sometimes and he has had to go off in games a handful of times

I'm not sure what he'll be like after injury and personally I'd be looking to upgrade and find a commanding CB to play alongside Kalas but keep Baker as a competent back up.

 

 

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

I don't believe that strike force has the quality to get promotion, just my opinion. They don't score enough goals, famara was the only consistent and and not replacing him with a quality striker I think will be a massive mistake.

For Fam’s “consistent” goal scoring....and playing permanently as the main-striker, hes scored:

20/21 - 10g + 1a

19/20 - 14+1

18/19 - 13+4

17/18 - 13+3

Its not worth £30k per week.

Weimann - who has played around 60% of games as a striker, albeit many of those as second-fiddle to Fam, the other 40% wide or in no8.

19/20 - 9+7

18/19 - 10+5

He has goals in him if you play him in the right role.  He creates for others too, that’s dropped off a cliff for Fam over past two seasons.

Wells - playing out of position too.

20/21 - 9+5

19/20 - 5 (in 17)

So Fam doesn’t really score much more than two players, who’ve not played anywhere near enough as the main striker.  I think Fam stifles any partner he’s had over the past 3 seasons.

I don’t think goals will be a problem, I think (all imho) we will be better as a team without him, and goals will come from different avenues....like they did early season when Fam wasn’t a regular.

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, The Bard said:

You did so well Dave, but Baker can absolutely do one for me.  Get a player in who will play more than 20 games a season .

I accept the controversy of this one, but I’m making an assumption he’s gonna come back fit and prove his worth.  Big assumption, absolutely.  But until we see the next few weeks it’s just a bit of guesswork.

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Agree with much of that but with the following changes:

1) I'd rather we got two RBs in and used Vyner in central defence

that’s what I implied.

2) I'm not convinced on offering Baker a deal.

most are in agreement with you.  As I stated, if I knew we were gonna go out and get 2 new proper first team CBs in, I’d think different.

3) I think that would leave us quite light in midfield - as those six include central and wide players. That might mean we'd need more signings or to use more of the under 23s.

It’s a start point for summer recruitment (as stated)....I’m not suggesting going with a 19 man squad.

4) I want to see how Nagy responds to NP between now and the end of the season.

good for you

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

Ian said on FBC that if Moore's not good enough to be first choice he shouldn't be here. I'm not sure. Aren't there players (perhaps including Bakinson, Massengo, Semenyo) who you think, they're not the finished article yet but they're close enough to keep them in the squad, as opposed to sending them on loan (with all the ups and downs that can go with that) or losing patience and getting rid.

Absolutely so, plus if you are going to have some who are seen primarily as squad players then those in their early 20s who are settled in the area & have around 50 games for us are decent bets, as opposed to many of those who are 30 something & looking for a last contract or two on the way down in the latter years of their career.

Max O’Leary is another example of this, has a decent amount of league experience now & not going to let us down if called upon.

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I accept the controversy of this one, but I’m making an assumption he’s gonna come back fit and prove his worth.  Big assumption, absolutely.  But until we see the next few weeks it’s just a bit of guesswork.

Couple of other things to consider with Baker . I've already said the cost could mean it could be sensible to offer a deal, as long as it's on our terms.
But I also get the feeling Baker could be a Pearson type player , uncompromising and committed . 

We could be doing some juggling money during the summer. If we need 9 players, Championship standard first team ready ? Pick a number , could be talking £20-30m. I don't see that happening. There may be some OOC players or some near the end of deals we can pick up reasonably , but we're talking promotion push. A couple of those players we have OOC could prove a sensible and cheap option.

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Couple of other things to consider with Baker . I've already said the cost could mean it could be sensible to offer a deal, as long as it's on our terms.
But I also get the feeling Baker could be a Pearson type player , uncompromising and committed . 

We could be doing some juggling money during the summer. If we need 9 players, Championship standard first team ready ? Pick a number , could be talking £20-30m. I don't see that happening. There may be some OOC players or some near the end of deals we can pick up reasonably , but we're talking promotion push. A couple of those players we have OOC could prove a sensible and cheap option.

Gonna be interesting what the budget allocated is.  As I’ve said before not re-contracting any of them is worth about £5m in wages and £5m in amortisation costs.  The wages and amortisation cost are a bit false really, it’s not really a saving, it’s a non-spend if that makes sense, but it decreases the cost base at the outset.

As I’ve written many times before, we need to be smarter.

Fam at £30k per week for 3 years, costs us £4.5m over the term, and will be 31 at the end of that contract.  The likelihood of resell within the term would appear limited, so assumption is that in 3 years time he walks for nothing.

So, you could probably bring in Mowatt on £10k, Fletcher for £12-15k and have money to spare, who would both have resell value through their term.

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Gonna be interesting what the budget allocated is.  As I’ve said before not re-contracting any of them is worth about £5m in wages and £5m in amortisation costs.  The wages and amortisation cost are a bit false really, it’s not really a saving, it’s a non-spend if that makes sense, but it decreases the cost base at the outset.

As I’ve written many times before, we need to be smarter.

Fam at £30k per week for 3 years, costs us £4.5m over the term, and will be 31 at the end of that contract.  The likelihood of resell within the term would appear limited, so assumption is that in 3 years time he walks for nothing.

So, you could probably bring in Mowatt on £10k, Fletcher for £12-15k and have money to spare, who would both have resell value through their term.

Fam is probably one who, though a decent player, I wouldn't resign. He has looked disinterested, or at least not 100% "IN". No way he'd be offered that contract now, it would be utter madness. 
I'd be playing Wells up on his own to see how we go, then decide what we want in the way of strikers.

Totally agree we need to be smart and selective, with an eye on the future. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Going to cost a fortune to replace the OOC players. 

Getting into a position where famara just walks is just mental. 1 in 3 goals per game strikers cost loads 

Unsure you're factoring in the possible deflation in the market with respect to Covid, plus wages.

Loads out of contract- we don't need to recruit with as big a squad in mind but with the proviso that the injury situation has to improve drastically.

4 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Absolutely entitled to your opinion but Wells scoring record at this level is at least as good as Famara.

He is clearly harder to warm to, but in the right formation will get goals.

Martin is an odd one, link up play is very good but either seems to have a season where he gets 2 or 15.

Weimann’s mobility, relative pace and team play make him ideal in my opinion.

If we do play with just one up top those behind need to contribute far more goals, for me only Paterson (if he stays) looks like doing that for me.

Didn't use him very well. We played him into the ground and although had quite a few assists, only a couple of League goals was it. We played him into the ground and he got steadily worse- at Derby he was used as follows by Cocu...

They used him quite sparingly for first couple of months- and they rotated him a bit through the season as well.

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2019/10/chris-martin-from-the-shadows-to-the-spotlight

In those 26 games he got 9 goals and 6 assists apparently- whereas they played him in all 9 in that 9 in a month or so last Summer- just the 2 goals. 

There is a clear way to utilise him effectively- and we failed.

[BigAl&Toby]

On 06/03/2021 at 17:43, Davefevs said:

Which is exactly what we don’t need.

People we’re posting pre-game, “hope we see a high press”.  Well, hate to break it to them, you can’t do that with Fam.  I watched Woodrow the other week (who’s not a speed freak), he doesn’t amble to close down.  He doesn’t need to sprint either, just a modicum of intent and effort.  Fam is a lazy bastard off the ball.  He did ok in the air today.  That was it.

 Blimey. I thought I was alone saying that sort of thing.

He might be from Senegal. He might live in Knowle.

But for far too long the ****** wouldn’t have looked out of place running around up at Redcatch Park on a Suburban League Saturday.

The majority of the squad. largely assembled by that ******* inept idiot Ashton and financed by the equally footballing inept Stevie simply aren’t good enough.

Good enough to turn in week in week out performances. To keep us in the Chimpionship let alone get us promoted.

Let’s not hide behind injuries or FFP. They ain’t good enough.

And what’s even worse is the Killers has been put back by another year. I can imagine the Guernsey Groan when Steve received the email from Ticketmaster......

Steve to Jon. **** I son. We got to wait another year before we get that pay day.

Jon to Steve. Hang on dad. Let’s try and get that other evangelist. No dad not you. That Biily Graham chap. He packed the happy clappers in all those years ago.

Steve to Jon. Great idea son. Get that Ashton chappie on to it. Tell him he’s got free reign to offer whatever he wants.

And **** me. The Ls have still got their hands firmly on the teats of the BS3 cash cow.....

[WolfOfWestStreet]

On 08/03/2021 at 13:28, Davefevs said:

For Fam’s “consistent” goal scoring....and playing permanently as the main-striker, hes scored:

20/21 - 10g + 1a

19/20 - 14+1

18/19 - 13+4

17/18 - 13+3

Its not worth £30k per week.

 

You put consistent in inverted commas for some reason. The stats you have quoted show consitency.

Wells, Weimann and Martin also have the combined age of 93 so I'm really struggling to be sold on this as the way forward. Weimann is as you rightly say effective but has health problems, Martin can barely move and has health problems and Wells I think is a poor signing paid too much for him. Also he's an idiot. 

So many holes all over the squad we have -12 GD, problems all over the pitch. How is this not going to cost money to fix??

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

You put consistent in inverted commas for some reason. The stats you have quoted show consitency.

Wells, Weimann and Martin also have the combined age of 93 so I'm really struggling to be sold on this as the way forward. Weimann is as you rightly say effective but has health problems, Martin can barely move and has health problems and Wells I think is a poor signing paid too much for him. Also he's an idiot. 

So many holes all over the squad we have -12 GD, problems all over the pitch. How is this not going to cost money to fix??

Yeah, because I think the others have shown equal consistency in their goalscoring (and goal creation too), that was what I was trying to say.

Yeah, there appear to be holes all over the squad, some a result a poor recruitment, some a result of poor usage of the players, some of poor tactics, some a result of all three.

Some of that could be fixed within the existing “squad” by implementing a system designed to get the best out of them.  It’s hypothetical, absolutely.  But so is “it’s gonna cost money to fix”.  I think it’s possible to replace Diedhiou for less money than it costs to try to keep him.  I think it’s possible to be as effective without spending any money at all (bar extending Weimann).

We have a manager who I think will be able to drill a better team from the resources given to him.

A minus 12 goal difference can be resolved in different ways, e.g. by conceding less goals, doesn’t have to be my scoring more per se.

A combined age of 93 is a bit irrelevant next season, I don’t expect all 3 to play every minute of every game....nor do I expect all 3 to be here beyond the end of next season either.  I’d like to see some succession planning.  Maybe that player is here already, or we go and get in someone on a free / low fee to fill that gap.

I guess I’m just more open to maybe fixing problems from what we’ve got.  I’m just a bit fed up of the LJ / MA approach which was to just go and buy something shiny with no clue how it might effect things.  I’m hoping NP is a bit more savvy than that.  And despite SL saying there is money to restructure the squad, I doubt it’s that much in reality,

[WolfOfWestStreet]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Yeah, because I think the others have shown equal consistency in their goalscoring (and goal creation too), that was what I was trying to say.

Yeah, there appear to be holes all over the squad, some a result a poor recruitment, some a result of poor usage of the players, some of poor tactics, some a result of all three.

Some of that could be fixed within the existing “squad” by implementing a system designed to get the best out of them.  It’s hypothetical, absolutely.  But so is “it’s gonna cost money to fix”.  I think it’s possible to replace Diedhiou for less money than it costs to try to keep him.  I think it’s possible to be as effective without spending any money at all (bar extending Weimann).

We have a manager who I think will be able to drill a better team from the resources given to him.

A minus 12 goal difference can be resolved in different ways, e.g. by conceding less goals, doesn’t have to be my scoring more per se.

A combined age of 93 is a bit irrelevant next season, I don’t expect all 3 to play every minute of every game....nor do I expect all 3 to be here beyond the end of next season either.  I’d like to see some succession planning.  Maybe that player is here already, or we go and get in someone on a free / low fee to fill that gap.

I guess I’m just more open to maybe fixing problems from what we’ve got.  I’m just a bit fed up of the LJ / MA approach which was to just go and buy something shiny with no clue how it might effect things.  I’m hoping NP is a bit more savvy than that.  And despite SL saying there is money to restructure the squad, I doubt it’s that much in reality,

Fair enough, decent arguments. 

I guess I'm less enthused about many (if not all) of our current playing staff than others. I'm so bored of some of them you wouldn't believe, very few exciting players in the squad at all its all so meh for me. 

I think I'm just happier going to the games than watching them on the tele, maybe when we go back I'll start enjoying the football again. Sorry to be negative. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Fair enough, decent arguments. 

I guess I'm less enthused about many (if not all) of our current playing staff than others. I'm so bored of some of them you wouldn't believe, very few exciting players in the squad at all its all so meh for me. 

I think I'm just happier going to the games than watching them on the tele, maybe when we go back I'll start enjoying the football again. Sorry to be negative. 

All about opinions, no right or wrongs, not negative either, just your view...makes the OTIB world go round!  I’m negative about certain things, not everything is a bed of roses is it?

I’m missing live games big time.  Watching on Robinstv (although great previously for away games on VPN airlines) isn’t the same.  The games just blur into one.

[Paulton Red]

I can’t help thinking that until stadium’s reopen to more than 25% capacity the challenge is to stay up firstly and to push for promotion secondly. The need to entertain I think is a distant third and therefore the approach to matches might be to win ugly until there’s crowds to please. The approach will massively influence who we keep and who we bring in, but it might be we bring in a team for the season and less of a succession plan