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The Massengo Conundrum


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26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep....why some posters want to profess their soothsayer skills pre-game is beyond me....even before they’ve heard the rationale from coaches like injuries etc.


bold bit - absolute rubbish again.  Do you just make stuff up.  Which were the key areas he gave the ball away in?

I’ll label my charts better next time...just for YOU.  But even if I did, you’d need to read them without your Massengo agenda anyway.

Passes: (18/24) 75% successful, just one given away in his own half:

  • none given away on the edge of the box
  • none that resulted in 4 or 5 goals given away

BB50D0CE-F106-4C65-96DA-31996DD61DBF.thumb.jpeg.0dcd0ea92e92682d36d0598ecc9468ac.jpeg

Duels: 18 / 37 - what you don’t see from these stats is although Massengo didn’t win the duels, other players picked up the loose ball.7754F139-0DFF-41A0-84DE-EA0B9A52B3B5.thumb.jpeg.8f7256d38ed7707e8702657513c269aa.jpeg

Ball recoveries (12) - where he’s picked up loose balls from his / other players duels.

521295B2-BE2B-40FD-A321-AE5FFBB939DD.jpeg.ebc9b7b9ef0dfd925b0fe0c1d6b60934.jpeg

Passing Network:

He is not constrained to passing to / from one player.  He has good passing numbers with multiple players from defence to attack.

07FA834B-A375-4D30-B09A-C64311E645E6.thumb.jpeg.c4bec5eb5fa0b69896feea99cbb9e772.jpeg

Pretty silly question to ask whether we are confident he’ll start on Wednesday.  He certainly did more than enough for NP to pick him.  But we have no idea whether any knocks, reactions in training.

Assuming he’s as fit as needed to be considered for selection I’d have no hesitation in picking him.

But we aren’t mind-readers, we aren’t tuned in to NP’s selection policy.

He could quite easily say, rest on Wednesday, go again on Saturday.

If you genuinely want to have an open debate, please feel free to reply and with any supporting evidence too....that would be helpful.

I know you don't need me to tell you but it's honestly not worth your time.

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12 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

I do want to have a open debate dave.

So lets say hes rested on wednesday right.

Others might use the expression dropped.

Hes one of the most under used squad players in the team, he was motm saturday, you say he needs a run in the team.

Resting him, yes makes perfect sense.

Where is the sense in that?

I don’t pick the team.

I don’t have access to the sport science.

I don’t have access to any discussions NP has had with him about game time

etc.

Run in the team, doesn’t mean playing / starting him every game either.  You need to manage young players.  Have you listened to any of NP’s interviews re use of young players?  If not, I’d recommend it....you’ll start to get a feel for his style / man-management.

Now....How about going back and responding to the points I made in response to your claims (inaccurate at best, false many would say) you  posted earlier?

If you actually do want an open debate, now’s the time to start.

Prove me wrong, and that you actually do want to debate, rather than make stuff up.

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Dave ive tried to get into a open debate.

 When you said, he had no part in readings third goal i decided to step away.

There was very little point debating that.

I think you have rose tinted glasses there to say the least.

Just remeber dave, ive never said hes worth this that or whatever.

I think some people predictions here, will come back to haunt them.

On a unrelated note dave, did you play with our gary at odd down?

He would have been there the time you were there.

 

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19 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Dave ive tried to get into a open debate.

 When you said, he had no part in readings third goal i decided to step away.

There was very little point debating that.

I think you have rose tinted glasses there to say the least.

Just remeber dave, ive never said hes worth this that or whatever.

I think some people predictions here, will come back to haunt them.

On a unrelated note dave, did you play with our gary at odd down?

He would have been there the time you were there.

 

Who’s mentioning value?

Try reading what I said.  Why do you try to create imaginary things people have posted?  To deflect?  To cover up your “factual” inaccuracies?

16401070-4EF2-4B48-ABC3-031EB9D26D40.thumb.jpeg.29b5535245f085ee060a0715067a358b.jpeg
 

If you watch the goal he missed a tackle out on their right wing position....35/40 yards out.  He didn’t lose  the ball on the edge of our box....your statement, not mine.

Stop bottling the debate....again you’ve made stuff up about what people have posted.

Rose-tinted.  Maybe.  But maybe I see the finer points of his game that helps form the opinion I have on him.

8 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

I can remember watching city reserves, vs odd down about 85 dave.

He would have been playing then.

Who’s “our Gary”?  I was at Odd Down around 96/97 (not 80s).

 

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Sorry thought you played there in the 80s,

You wouldnt know him then.

Lived by the robins pub.

Tell you what dave, ive gone on about the 4 goals hes cost us between the reading and watford games.

Why dont you counteract my argument, by posting some of his match winning moments in a city shirt.

That should level out the argument.

I know you dont have access to nps coversations, or do you pick the team.

Why would you?

 Not 1 person has said, no louie, hes nailed on to start.

Wonder why.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

No side in this leauge wants a 19 year old in cm port said red.

Have a day off mate.

Well that's me told.

2 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Sell him to forest green.

They never seen a decent midfielder, and they might pay 5,5 million.

Followed by more idiocy.

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On 06/03/2021 at 23:53, Oh Louie louie said:

Lets be honest here, the last 10 games, hes played, ive seen him give away the ball infront of goal, thats led to 4 or 5 diffrent goals.

Cant see nige playing him.

 

I think this is the post you'll be looking for @Davefevs

@Oh Louie louie I truly don't understand your aggressive dislike of HNM.

 

 

 

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my nailed on starters would be Bents,Kalas,Sess,,Mariappa,Hunt,Palmer,Lansbury,Semenyo,Cod, and one of Fam or wells in the middle up top. that leaves 1 space in midfield,bakinson,vyner,Hans or Nagy. think i would go with Vyner for his defensive abilities and can play the ball about,knows where the goal is too.would also leave a few options on the bench if changes were needed

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21 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

People get so weird and fixated about young players - bizarrely willing them to do badly. We've seen it with Morrell, Semenyo and now HNM. Can't get my head around it. 

Yes, as if more experienced players don't miss tackles, misplace passes or miss chances to score.

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48 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

People get so weird and fixated about young players - bizarrely willing them to do badly. We've seen it with Morrell, Semenyo and now HNM. Can't get my head around it. 

Came through the ranks at Monaco.

Youngest ever player to play in the Champions League a couple of seasons ago at 17.

Ligue 1 and cup appearances aged 17/18.

Represented (and still does)  his country at various age groups.

Over 50 appearances for Bristol City at age 18/19.

And people on here want to loan this talent out to League 1 clubs :laughcont:

(mind you, that doesn't surprise me in the least).

 

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2 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Sorry thought you played there in the 80s,

You wouldnt know him then.

Lived by the robins pub.

Tell you what dave, ive gone on about the 4 goals hes cost us between the reading and watford games.

Why dont you counteract my argument, by posting some of his match winning moments in a city shirt.

That should level out the argument.

I know you dont have access to nps coversations, or do you pick the team.

Why would you?

 Not 1 person has said, no louie, hes nailed on to start.

Wonder why.

 

 

 

No, you started the debate on the post below.  In black, white and purple. ⬇️⬇️⬇️

2 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Dave Where did i say he lost the ball on the edge of the box?

My statement as you said just been looking all through the thread.

Could you possibly repost that please.

 

18A494F0-FED4-43BD-80A2-16BBA2C918AE.thumb.jpeg.512803a8fe47038376a3c7df421d1962.jpeg

That is you isn’t it? ⬆️⬆️⬆️

We can have a good old discussion on the other points....once we’ve finished this one. Thanks.

 

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I thought he was ok today, yeah maybe MOM (Palmer perhaps, noone was great) but I don't see the "special" qualities that can make him really good and really able to affect a game at this level.

Rothwell blowing by him (like Lansbury, exactly the same as Massengo, what's special?), he's no threat going forwards and our midfield which he was a part of had no control of the game.

He was ok, but I genuinely would love to know what people think are the qualities he has that can make a really good player at this level.

His best quality for me is his ability to turn in tight areas, work rate maybe. He does try. That's not really special though.

He just feels like an ok continuity player to me. Keeps it moving, does ok but not really at defending, not threat going forwards. runs forward/runs back. Is that £2.5m-->£8m worth of resources well spent?

He's 19, ok, but we're allegedly trying to get promoted. And next year? Is he going to be a top level champ midfielder? I'm not so sure. Central midfield is a big need of improvement IMO.

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If we hold on to him and in next few seasons make it to top level, people will be talking about Massengo on Otib in fifty years time.  ‘I remember seeing him in our promotion season back in 2024’.

Everything about him at 19 screams quality to me

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2 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

If we hold on to him and in next few seasons make it to top level, people will be talking about Massengo on Otib in fifty years time.  ‘I remember seeing him in our promotion season back in 2024’.

Everything about him at 19 screams quality to me

In fifty years time people won’t be talking about anybody on OTIB. It will be direct mind-to-mind thought transfer via brain implants 

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14 minutes ago, Prinny said:

I thought he was ok today, yeah maybe MOM (Palmer perhaps, noone was great) but I don't see the "special" qualities that can make him really good and really able to affect a game at this level.

Rothwell blowing by him (like Lansbury, exactly the same as Massengo, what's special?), he's no threat going forwards and our midfield which he was a part of had no control of the game.

He was ok, but I genuinely would love to know what people think are the qualities he has that can make a really good player at this level.

His best quality for me is his ability to turn in tight areas, work rate maybe. He does try. That's not really special though.

He just feels like an ok continuity player to me. Keeps it moving, does ok but not really at defending, not threat going forwards. runs forward/runs back. Is that £2.5m-->£8m worth of resources well spent?

He's 19, ok, but we're allegedly trying to get promoted. And next year? Is he going to be a top level champ midfielder? I'm not so sure. Central midfield is a big need of improvement IMO.

I think he can be what ever he wants, remember he’s being told exactly what to do by the manager, it may not be how he would like to express himself on the pitch but it’s vital for the team to have that player who never stops running and does the simple things correctly time after time. Unlike many others that have played in midfield this season.

He’s quick, never stops running, good control, clever feet, good passer. What is it that you don’t think he’s capable of?

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1 minute ago, pongo88 said:

In fifty years time people won’t be talking about anybody on OTIB. It will be direct mind-to-mind thought transfer via brain implants 

Oh my god, there are some people on here I really really wouldn’t want to see into their minds!

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Just now, ralphindevon said:

I think he can be what ever he wants, ??? remember he’s being told exactly what to do by the manager, it may not be how he would like to express himself on the pitch but it’s vital for the team to have that player who never stops running and does the simple things correctly time after time. Unlike many others that have played in midfield this season.

He’s quick, never stops running, good control, clever feet, good passer. What is it that you don’t think he’s capable of?

He definitely isn't quick. Rothwell was quick, you can see the difference. O'Dowda is pretty quick, you can see the difference in how they operate in space. Nagy is much faster, you can see what happens when they track someone.

I'm asking what's special? And is he value at what he does? You've said good a lot, but where is the great?

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Just now, Prinny said:

He definitely isn't quick. Rothwell was quick, you can see the difference. O'Dowda is pretty quick, you can see the difference in how they operate in space. Nagy is much faster, you can see what happens when they track someone.

I'm asking what's special? And is he value at what he does? You've said good a lot, but where is the great?

Did you see the game tonight? He was lightning at times running to close play down.

Ive seen plenty of great from him, one great moment on the far side tonight where he controlled an awkward ball and kept possession under pressure, a number of great moments in the Brentford game I think it was.

I agree he isn’t’ ‘great’ for 90 minutes but if he was at 19 he wouldn’t be playing for us, I think he has every chance of playing premier league eventually. 

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38 minutes ago, Prinny said:

I thought he was ok today, yeah maybe MOM (Palmer perhaps, noone was great) but I don't see the "special" qualities that can make him really good and really able to affect a game at this level.

Rothwell blowing by him (like Lansbury, exactly the same as Massengo, what's special?), he's no threat going forwards and our midfield which he was a part of had no control of the game.

He was ok, but I genuinely would love to know what people think are the qualities he has that can make a really good player at this level.

His best quality for me is his ability to turn in tight areas, work rate maybe. He does try. That's not really special though.

He just feels like an ok continuity player to me. Keeps it moving, does ok but not really at defending, not threat going forwards. runs forward/runs back. Is that £2.5m-->£8m worth of resources well spent?

He's 19, ok, but we're allegedly trying to get promoted. And next year? Is he going to be a top level champ midfielder? I'm not so sure. Central midfield is a big need of improvement IMO.

If a youngster had come through our youth and had the same ability as Massengo, you’d be saying how good he was I reckon 

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