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Qpr’s 1st goal


Harry

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Lots of comments saying Mariappa shouldn’t have been beaten by the smallest player on the pitch. 
Lots of comments saying Sessegnon should’ve closed the cross down. 
 

For me, the problem starts in midfield. And it’s interesting that Nige alluded to the midfield being weak. 
 

I’ve said before how Nagy has been much better this season than he was last. And I ceased my criticism of him as he deserved praise for some good games this season. However, I mentioned that he was poor against Bournemouth, and looked like the Nagy I used to think wasn’t good enough. 
And so, today, he continued where he left off on Wednesday and was again very poor. 
 

One of my biggest criticisms of him is his lack of awareness/danger, when he goes chasing the ball and leaving holes behind him. Well, QPR’s first goal today was prime evidence of that. 
He is perfectly positioned in a nice compact central 3, him, Vyner & Bakinson all in a line, their CB with the ball. He’s got no options as the midfield 3 are tight, closing any passing lanes. 
What does Nagy do. Yep, in his ever-eagerness to chase the ball, he loses his shape discipline, hares off into the opposition half to close down a CB, who until that point had no forward passing options. 
As Nagy sprints forward, Austin drops into the hole Nagy has left, drawing Kalas to come out with him. This in turn means Sessegnon has to pull in tighter to cover the gap Kalas has had to leave. 
Austin then lays the ball off to the unmarked CM (who was Nagy’s man before he went chasing). The CM pops it off wide, where their full back now has acres because Sess had to cover 10 yards inside. 
Yes, Sess could have closed Kane down quicker, but the fact he was so far away to start with is all down to 1 stupid and unnecessary ball chase by Nagy. 
 

He’d turned my opinion round of him for the most part this year, but this harebrain move was back to the bad-Nagy I saw last year. 
 

Stop chasing the damn ball Adam. You leave holes. You allow the opposition to play through us without needing to try too hard. Please, just slow down man!! Your energy is your biggest asset but your thoughtless chasing of the ball is your biggest weakness. 

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Thanks Harry, I wasn’t on FBC podcast tonight but was angrily texting away for the early part of the show when Ian (and now Mark) are becoming obsessed about player heights.  Amazing how Owen used to score headers from Beckham crosses isn’t it?

Mariappa wasn’t done on height, he was done on the cardinal sin of hoping the ball wouldn’t be perfect.  It was, and he couldn’t make the ground up (only needed to react half a yard quicker).

But as you say Sessegnon, could get out to close Kane.  Initially he’d tucked in to cover Kalas being dragged up the pitch (think it was Austin) and then because of no pressure on the ball in midfield, Kane gets an easy pass.

 

 

I didn’t read your whole post before I started typing, but reading it through we saw the same thing.  Cause and effect.  There’s being a ratty midfielder like Korey, and there’s being a reckless ball chasing, shape loser like Nagy.  Poles apart in how to play as a ball-hunter.  Got to know when to hunt and when to screen.  Korey wasn’t a natural DM but he had far better awareness than Nagy.

 

 

 

The good thing is Pearson knows it too.  There is hope!!!

 

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Watching the goal back, I think criticism of Sessegnon in particular is a little harsh. As @Davefevshas said, he had moved inside to cover and, once Kane had the ball in that position, he was a bit stuck.

If he had moved diagonally to close Kane down, Kane would have easily had time to run forward past him before he could reach him and had an open crossing position further up the pitch.

Once Kalas is out of position then Sessegnon does not have the cover to close down the ball without leaving a gap himself. It would have maybe looked better if Sessegnon had charged out in vain to get the ball but there was no realistic possibility it would have stopped Kane getting a ball into the box. Arguably staying where he was forced Kane to cross from a deeper position and meant there was more chance of a poor cross or Mariappa dealing with it. Unfortunately neither happened.

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I love posts like this ?

Our midfield hasn't been good enough for ages. I posted a while ago about this. I'm glad others see it too.

It's a tad unfair to single out Nagy to be honest.

Bottom line is we haven't replaced our best player - Brownhill. For me, Pack and Kory were adequate at this level, but not worldbeaters.

I hope Pearson stays and does some proper recruitment.

He picked up Mahrez for 400k, we paid millions for Palmer, the gulf in quality is palpable.

NB: you'll note that I haven't laid blame at Ashton, or have I ?

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Someone has to close down at some point, but even if he holds position it's a fairly straight forward pass between 2 City players

925578155_Screenshot2021-03-07at08_00_05.png.8c92be33373b1eafc32aec99ade7cbe1.png

 

902788982_Screenshot2021-03-07at07_55_38.png.90d5592efc225acf6abc2a01b1fa8e5b.png

We have always played FB's narrow when out of possession. I remember Scot Golbourne's first game or two, he seemed to be playing wider and restricting the space for the winger. Few games down the line he had changed his starting position. In fact I think LJ did confirm the tactic at one stage.

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Not sure that's too bad a starting point above, ball on it's way. One touch and cross doesn't give Sess time to close, but we look fairly good. 
My problem is how Mariappa trys to deal with it. He seems to stick his leg out in some awkward attempt to get the ball.
I would say fair play to Chair, that is not an easy finish.

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It is an amazing cross, inch perfect. You can look at a few players and wonder if they could have done better, even Bentley. But I think it's being very harsh. 

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7 hours ago, Harry said:

Lots of comments saying Mariappa shouldn’t have been beaten by the smallest player on the pitch. 
Lots of comments saying Sessegnon should’ve closed the cross down. 
 

For me, the problem starts in midfield. And it’s interesting that Nige alluded to the midfield being weak. 
 

I’ve said before how Nagy has been much better this season than he was last. And I ceased my criticism of him as he deserved praise for some good games this season. However, I mentioned that he was poor against Bournemouth, and looked like the Nagy I used to think wasn’t good enough. 
And so, today, he continued where he left off on Wednesday and was again very poor. 
 

One of my biggest criticisms of him is his lack of awareness/danger, when he goes chasing the ball and leaving holes behind him. Well, QPR’s first goal today was prime evidence of that. 
He is perfectly positioned in a nice compact central 3, him, Vyner & Bakinson all in a line, their CB with the ball. He’s got no options as the midfield 3 are tight, closing any passing lanes. 
What does Nagy do. Yep, in his ever-eagerness to chase the ball, he loses his shape discipline, hares off into the opposition half to close down a CB, who until that point had no forward passing options. 
As Nagy sprints forward, Austin drops into the hole Nagy has left, drawing Kalas to come out with him. This in turn means Sessegnon has to pull in tighter to cover the gap Kalas has had to leave. 
Austin then lays the ball off to the unmarked CM (who was Nagy’s man before he went chasing). The CM pops it off wide, where their full back now has acres because Sess had to cover 10 yards inside. 
Yes, Sess could have closed Kane down quicker, but the fact he was so far away to start with is all down to 1 stupid and unnecessary ball chase by Nagy. 
 

He’d turned my opinion round of him for the most part this year, but this harebrain move was back to the bad-Nagy I saw last year. 
 

Stop chasing the damn ball Adam. You leave holes. You allow the opposition to play through us without needing to try too hard. Please, just slow down man!! Your energy is your biggest asset but your thoughtless chasing of the ball is your biggest weakness. 

Nagy wasn't poor against Bournemouth. 

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3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Maybe the attacking wingers in this system QPR saw as a weakness that they exploited. But as we heard Pearson say, it seems like he thinks it was mainly down to our midfield 3.

If, like I think it was, Bakinson was a tactical sub, that speaks volumes about what he thought. 
If we are going to try and play that sort of front 3, I would want a slight change in personnel. I'd go with Wells down the middle and Semenyo plus ANOther , depending who's fit. Watkins would be ideal for this system.

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Yes he was. I won’t repeat but my comments made on the night / next day are my stance (on the Nagy thread). 

Just because you state it as fact does not mean it is true. One of the first names on the teamsheet and one of our best players.

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10 hours ago, Harry said:

Lots of comments saying Mariappa shouldn’t have been beaten by the smallest player on the pitch. 
Lots of comments saying Sessegnon should’ve closed the cross down. 
 

For me, the problem starts in midfield. And it’s interesting that Nige alluded to the midfield being weak. 
 

I’ve said before how Nagy has been much better this season than he was last. And I ceased my criticism of him as he deserved praise for some good games this season. However, I mentioned that he was poor against Bournemouth, and looked like the Nagy I used to think wasn’t good enough. 
And so, today, he continued where he left off on Wednesday and was again very poor. 
 

One of my biggest criticisms of him is his lack of awareness/danger, when he goes chasing the ball and leaving holes behind him. Well, QPR’s first goal today was prime evidence of that. 
He is perfectly positioned in a nice compact central 3, him, Vyner & Bakinson all in a line, their CB with the ball. He’s got no options as the midfield 3 are tight, closing any passing lanes. 
What does Nagy do. Yep, in his ever-eagerness to chase the ball, he loses his shape discipline, hares off into the opposition half to close down a CB, who until that point had no forward passing options. 
As Nagy sprints forward, Austin drops into the hole Nagy has left, drawing Kalas to come out with him. This in turn means Sessegnon has to pull in tighter to cover the gap Kalas has had to leave. 
Austin then lays the ball off to the unmarked CM (who was Nagy’s man before he went chasing). The CM pops it off wide, where their full back now has acres because Sess had to cover 10 yards inside. 
Yes, Sess could have closed Kane down quicker, but the fact he was so far away to start with is all down to 1 stupid and unnecessary ball chase by Nagy. 
 

He’d turned my opinion round of him for the most part this year, but this harebrain move was back to the bad-Nagy I saw last year. 
 

Stop chasing the damn ball Adam. You leave holes. You allow the opposition to play through us without needing to try too hard. Please, just slow down man!! Your energy is your biggest asset but your thoughtless chasing of the ball is your biggest weakness. 

Apply your D's Harry. 

How does your team Dictate where they want the oppositions possession to go. They got it Delayed. But the shape of team does not Deny space front to midfield. Palmers position means the opponents can play through them. There were passing options open because a player has made a decision not to tuck in. 

It should not be a tight midfield three. You cannot cover a pitch with three. You cannot screen and slide with three. 

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

 

Someone has to close down at some point, but even if he holds position it's a fairly straight forward pass between 2 City players

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Its a very easy pass.  What is the wide player doing? Tight and compact? Marking who? Marking a a empty zone? What does this player influence? 

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

 

 

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What is the same player doing now? Anything or nothing? 

Defending is collective. 

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10 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yep. Or possibly a slight change in it being more a 4231 with a double pivot. Then have 2 hard working wingers who come a bit deeper supporting us in defensive situations better, like what Watkins would do better than Wells or Palmer. And then Palmer can be the one behind Wells.

I do actually like Palmer wide though. Maybe in a 433 we need a more defensive winger the other side to make up for situations like that first goal where going on the pics, Palmer looks more interested in being there to receive a ball once we would hopefully win it back to break, rather than being one that helps making us solid so we can actually keep them out.

But I may be unfair there as it might have been Nagy's fault, not sure. But like you say, Watkins or Semenyo, both being good defensively coming a bit deeper than Palmer on the other side would hopefully then shift others into covering positions we are bit light in like we were there on that goal.

And another positive on Palmer is that he did look really good in a midfield 2 when we went 442. Surprised me that did. But not sure if being 2-0 down kind of helped him in there in not having to maybe do the defensive duties he would against a team that are going for a goal more than what QPR were at that point, who's priority was more keeping a clean sheet than going for a 3rd.

On Bakinson, I think he lacks the work rate maybe needed in a box to box role. Especially with 3 forward players we have. I am interested to see him in an even more advanced role, in behind Wells for example in a 4231. As I thought when he received the ball very high up the pitch against Bournemouth he looked very dangerous. Especially if he were to have Wells ahead of him and options from wide coming in field. He has it in him to pick a runner for sure. And we are so scary at defending set pieces, I would be even more scared to drop another 6 foot 3 player as well as Fam! 

Funny you should say that about Bakinson, thought for a while we could do with getting him further forward. For a couple of reasons. He is one of our best at spotting a pass and getting us on the front foot. Also he can get stuck when pressured, if he doesn't see that early pass he can hesitate and get caught in possession , he's also prone to a lax or lazy pass. I think in a perfect World, this would have been a year at a L1 club just to get used to playing week to week.

 

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10 hours ago, Harry said:

Lots of comments saying Mariappa shouldn’t have been beaten by the smallest player on the pitch. 
Lots of comments saying Sessegnon should’ve closed the cross down. 
 

For me, the problem starts in midfield. And it’s interesting that Nige alluded to the midfield being weak. 
 

I’ve said before how Nagy has been much better this season than he was last. And I ceased my criticism of him as he deserved praise for some good games this season. However, I mentioned that he was poor against Bournemouth, and looked like the Nagy I used to think wasn’t good enough. 
And so, today, he continued where he left off on Wednesday and was again very poor. 
 

One of my biggest criticisms of him is his lack of awareness/danger, when he goes chasing the ball and leaving holes behind him. Well, QPR’s first goal today was prime evidence of that. 
He is perfectly positioned in a nice compact central 3, him, Vyner & Bakinson all in a line, their CB with the ball. He’s got no options as the midfield 3 are tight, closing any passing lanes. 
What does Nagy do. Yep, in his ever-eagerness to chase the ball, he loses his shape discipline, hares off into the opposition half to close down a CB, who until that point had no forward passing options. 
As Nagy sprints forward, Austin drops into the hole Nagy has left, drawing Kalas to come out with him. This in turn means Sessegnon has to pull in tighter to cover the gap Kalas has had to leave. 
Austin then lays the ball off to the unmarked CM (who was Nagy’s man before he went chasing). The CM pops it off wide, where their full back now has acres because Sess had to cover 10 yards inside. 
Yes, Sess could have closed Kane down quicker, but the fact he was so far away to start with is all down to 1 stupid and unnecessary ball chase by Nagy. 
 

He’d turned my opinion round of him for the most part this year, but this harebrain move was back to the bad-Nagy I saw last year. 
 

Stop chasing the damn ball Adam. You leave holes. You allow the opposition to play through us without needing to try too hard. Please, just slow down man!! Your energy is your biggest asset but your thoughtless chasing of the ball is your biggest weakness. 

Nigel said it's not a blame game.

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3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah I agree, just going on the pics I would say he's the one not really marking or engaging with a ball carrier. More there in a good position if the others can stop the attack and then he is available to break on the left.

Its a case of preference. Some may feel seven and eight players is enough to defend with. I would prefer wide players tucking in as soon as possession is lost. You in your previous post mention 4-3-3. Out of possession that was not a tight 4-5-1 defending, its loose and open. 

It was collectively passive. Nagy attempted to be positive. His choice to try and deny space was influenced by a wrong choice outside of him. 

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1 minute ago, Cowshed said:

Its a case of preference. Some may feel seven and eight players is enough to defend with. I would prefer wide players tucking in as soon as possession is lost. You in your previous post mention 4-3-3. Out of possession that was not a tight 4-5-1 defending, its loose and open. 

It was collectively passive. Nagy attempted to be positive. His choice to try and deny space was influenced by a wrong choice outside of him. 

There lies the difference between you and the op. @Harrytake note, there is a big difference between pretending to understand and actual knowledge.

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10 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

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11 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Its a very easy pass.  What is the wide player doing? Tight and compact? Marking who? Marking a a empty zone? What does this player influence? 

 

If Palmer closes, the pass is still on. Maybe Nagy could be deeper, maybe Palmer goes with Kane , but it's one touch and cross so not sure it would have made a difference.  If COD is Palmer, I think he goes with the runner, but selection is a trade off. 

21 minutes ago, Cowshed said:
3 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

 

 

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Read more  

What is the same player doing now? Anything or nothing?

Not a lot. Not sure how he could have affected the cross or goal once Kane received  the ball. Like I said, you can question a few players but I don't think any one person is at fault as such.

Disappointed with the MF, maybe. Disappointed with Mariappa, possibly. Disappointed with Bentley, he's saved those before. 
I think it's a case where Pearson would want them to do better without a doubt. They passed trough and around us all day, some of that may be down to personnel , but I think a lot is down to coaching over the last 18 months or more. I would like to think NP will make us more difficult to pass around in the future.

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51 minutes ago, Chrisbc said:

Just because you state it as fact does not mean it is true. One of the first names on the teamsheet and one of our best players.

Calm down lad. It’s my opinion. Not a “fact”. That’s why I use the term “my stance is”. 
And I have already said that he’s been good this season. But he’s been poor Wednesday and was poor yesterday (in my opinion). 

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10 hours ago, Harry said:

Lots of comments saying Mariappa shouldn’t have been beaten by the smallest player on the pitch. 
Lots of comments saying Sessegnon should’ve closed the cross down. 
 

For me, the problem starts in midfield. And it’s interesting that Nige alluded to the midfield being weak. 
 

I’ve said before how Nagy has been much better this season than he was last. And I ceased my criticism of him as he deserved praise for some good games this season. However, I mentioned that he was poor against Bournemouth, and looked like the Nagy I used to think wasn’t good enough. 
And so, today, he continued where he left off on Wednesday and was again very poor. 
 

One of my biggest criticisms of him is his lack of awareness/danger, when he goes chasing the ball and leaving holes behind him. Well, QPR’s first goal today was prime evidence of that. 
He is perfectly positioned in a nice compact central 3, him, Vyner & Bakinson all in a line, their CB with the ball. He’s got no options as the midfield 3 are tight, closing any passing lanes. 
What does Nagy do. Yep, in his ever-eagerness to chase the ball, he loses his shape discipline, hares off into the opposition half to close down a CB, who until that point had no forward passing options. 
As Nagy sprints forward, Austin drops into the hole Nagy has left, drawing Kalas to come out with him. This in turn means Sessegnon has to pull in tighter to cover the gap Kalas has had to leave. 
Austin then lays the ball off to the unmarked CM (who was Nagy’s man before he went chasing). The CM pops it off wide, where their full back now has acres because Sess had to cover 10 yards inside. 
Yes, Sess could have closed Kane down quicker, but the fact he was so far away to start with is all down to 1 stupid and unnecessary ball chase by Nagy. 
 

He’d turned my opinion round of him for the most part this year, but this harebrain move was back to the bad-Nagy I saw last year. 
 

Stop chasing the damn ball Adam. You leave holes. You allow the opposition to play through us without needing to try too hard. Please, just slow down man!! Your energy is your biggest asset but your thoughtless chasing of the ball is your biggest weakness. 

In his prematch interview he alluded to ‘ tiredness ‘ before correcting himself and saying that it was normal.

I rate the player but clearly he, and others , can’t maintain the desired levels of performance twice a week.

It is not simply physical but mental tiredness.

No one is using this as an excuse but evidently at our club in particular with so many first team players out the guys who remain are being overplayed and then criticised when it doesn’t yield results.
 

It’s a vicious circle .

It is also said that other clubs are going through the same issues but no two clubs have the same problems and even Liverpool have been way below their levels of last year due to injuries and fatigue . 
 

We just need to get this season out of the way and try to get back to normal with a proper preseason and break between the seasons.

These guys are not robots.

 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Apply your D's Harry. 

How does your team Dictate where they want the oppositions possession to go. They got it Delayed. But the shape of team does not Deny space front to midfield. Palmers position means the opponents can play through them. There were passing options open because a player has made a decision not to tuck in. 

It should not be a tight midfield three. You cannot cover a pitch with three. You cannot screen and slide with three. 

 

Its a very easy pass.  What is the wide player doing? Tight and compact? Marking who? Marking a a empty zone? What does this player influence? 

What is the same player doing now? Anything or nothing? 

Defending is collective. 

I agree that Palmer was indeed very ‘passive’ in that phase of play too. But the decision by Nagy to sprint toward the CB is what actually opened up the passing lane. 
Should Palmer have done more? Absolutely. Once Nagy goes, Palmer should be covering inside. Should Nagy have sprinted into the opposition half to close a player who, at that point, had no option except a short ball into the midfielder infront of Vyner? 
Nagy’s decision is what gave the CB the passing lane in behind the midfield, leaving a hole which a player like Palmer isn’t going to recognise.  
 

And for the benefit of the other poster - that’s my opinion sir. 
 

Pic 1. No passing lane. 
Pic 2. Passing lane opened. No need to have done so with the CB having no forward passing option. 
 

3FD9276E-CFE0-4907-9FF6-C29A918BB7ED.jpeg

C718C0E7-79F2-4CB6-82E2-45CB82C57134.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Chrisbc said:

Just because you state it as fact does not mean it is true. One of the first names on the teamsheet and one of our best players.

Have a read of your post....Harry actually said that it was his stance.  You’ve made your opinion - Fact!

Imho, Nagy is one of a number of players who will need to improve on the pitch and mentally to be part of an NP side.  He lacks discipline without the ball, he shirks challenges.  Those are not traits of an NP player.  In our bad run, the short continuity passing he has been good at, disappeared too.  Crossroads for Nagy.  I wouldn’t be building my team around him.

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8 minutes ago, Harry said:

I agree that Palmer was indeed very ‘passive’ in that phase of play too. But the decision by Nagy to sprint toward the CB is what actually opened up the passing lane. 
Should Palmer have done more? Absolutely. Once Nagy goes, Palmer should be covering inside. Should Nagy have sprinted into the opposition half to close a player who, at that point, had no option except a short ball into the midfielder infront of Vyner. 
Nagy’s decision is what gave the CB the passing lane in behind the midfield, leaving a hole which a player like Palmer isn’t going to recognise.  
 

And for the benefit of the other poster - that’s my opinion sir. 
 

Pic 1. No passing lane. 
Pic 2. Passing lane opened. No need to have done so with the CB having no forward passing option. 
 

3FD9276E-CFE0-4907-9FF6-C29A918BB7ED.jpeg

C718C0E7-79F2-4CB6-82E2-45CB82C57134.jpeg

Nagy trying to press only opens up the option to one player , who then lays it off to a guy who would have been open if Nagy stays. They had very good movement, if you watch the goal Willock (?) is on the move but Nagy closing cuts off a direct pass and it goes to the other player (not sure who) who then lays the ball off. Their movement opens options and made it easier for the man on the ball . 

Pic 1 shows space between Palmer & Nagy
Pic 2 shows 2 QPR players offering the man on the ball a pass.

I thought they looked a neat well organised team, at the moment we can only dream of that movement.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Have a read of your post....Harry actually said that it was his stance.  You’ve made your opinion - Fact!

Imho, Nagy is one of a number of players who will need to improve on the pitch and mentally to be part of an NP side.  He lacks discipline without the ball, he shirks challenges.  Those are not traits of an NP player.  In our bad run, the short continuity passing he has been good at, disappeared too.  Crossroads for Nagy.  I wouldn’t be building my team around him.

There is a lot about him I like. Energy, enthusiasm and no lack of ability. I do think he needs focus though. I wonder if he trys to compensate for our lack of movement and trys too hard at times, there does seem a lot of unnecessary running at times.

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1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

Nagy trying to press only opens up the option to one player , who then lays it off to a guy who would have been open if Nagy stays. They had very good movement, if you watch the goal Willock (?) is on the move but Nagy closing cuts off a direct pass and it goes to the other player (not sure who) who then lays the ball off. Their movement opens options and made it easier for the man on the ball . 

Pic 1 shows space between Palmer & Nagy
Pic 2 shows 2 QPR players offering the man on the ball a pass.

I thought they looked a neat well organised team, at the moment we can only dream of that movement.

Nagy’s man IS Willock. To prevent a pass to Willock all he needs to do it screen infront of him. 
Unless we are playing a very high pressing game (which we were not), there is no reason for Nagy to sprint into the opposition half to close down a CB with no passing options. 
I agree that their movement was very good. And good players, like Austin, will exploit weaknesses. As soon as Nagy went forward, Austin dropped into the hole he’d left. That’s what opened up the pass - intelligent movement by good players, exploiting the weakness of the opponent. 
 

If you just watch the 3 or 4 seconds in full speed, when Nagy goes, Palmer is then in two-minds (do I go inside to mark Willock or do I stay wider, in my shape). Vyner is in two minds (do I go across to close Willock or is Kasey gonna do it). 
There is utter confusion for 3 seconds, meanwhile, their intelligent players are exploiting it. Good players think fast and act fast. 
If Nagy holds and screens, holds and screens, holds and screens, then there are no options to pass it into the space behind our midfield. 
 

I know this probably seems like I’m being overly critical, but it’s these moments that really matter. If we’re high-pressing, then the whole team will know that when one goes, others have to follow (ie close down others). We were not high-pressing, so Nagy sprinting into the oppo half caused confusion around him and their intelligent players pounced on it. 

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11 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

There is a lot about him I like. Energy, enthusiasm and no lack of ability. I do think he needs focus though. I wonder if he trys to compensate for our lack of movement and trys too hard at times, there does seem a lot of unnecessary running at times.

That’s exactly what he does. And he acknowledges this himself (in his first interview when he joined). He said “I can run too much and I need to think about what I do more”. 
As I said earlier, his energy is his greatest strength but also his biggest weakness. 

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3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

So I think one thing many seem to agree on is Nagy presses because Palmer didnt. No doubt Nagy would not have done so if Palmer engaged with the ball carrier. I imagine its pretty basic for Nagy to know not to go if he sees Palmer is.

So I am thinking if Nagy had just stayed sitting, what would have happened?

If you don't engage with the player on the ball and instead stay sitting trying to cut out a vertical passing lane, then the man with the ball in that situation has time to pick a long pass.

So would he have just gone long to Kane's feet anyway? If the same kind of thing then happens, Kane crossing for Chair to head in, then Nagy probably looks at fault for not engaging and giving him all the time to pick a long pass.

But I don't know where Kane was in those pictures. All very complicated isn't it! ?

It’s a shape discipline. We weren’t pressing high. The CB had very little options. Nagy’s one movement caused Vyner, Palmer, Sessegnon and Kalas to react, outside of their shape. 
If Nagy didn’t engage, and instead just screened, the likely outcome was either Palmer goes to engage or, more likely, Wells  is given the time to get across, which would force the CB to play square across his own backline. 
Yes, they keep the ball and we have to continue to defend in our shape. 
We have to make THEM work for it. By opening up easy lanes, it’s easy for players like Austin to exploit. 

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1 hour ago, Chrisbc said:

Just because you state it as fact does not mean it is true. One of the first names on the teamsheet and one of our best players.

That statement goes both ways. Nagy does have a tendency the chase for the sake of it . Once he’s out of position it’s easy to pull us apart  

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Just now, JonDolman said:

So I think one thing many seem to agree on is Nagy presses because Palmer didnt. No doubt Nagy would not have done so if Palmer engaged with the ball carrier. I imagine its pretty basic for Nagy to know not to go if he sees Palmer is.

So I am thinking if Nagy had just stayed sitting, what would have happened?

If you don't engage with the player on the ball and instead stay sitting trying to cut out a vertical passing lane, then the man with the ball in that situation has time to pick a long pass.

So would he have just gone long to Kane's feet anyway? If the same kind of thing then happens, Kane crossing for Chair to head in, then Nagy probably looks at fault for not engaging and giving him all the time to pick a long pass.

But I don't know where Kane was in those pictures. All very complicated isn't it! ?

Or, nobody needed to press the ball, because he’s moving into congestion....and we were reasonably structured.

If he passes to Kane, Sessegnon hasn’t had to tuck in behind Kalas, so is far better placed to engage Kane....plus Kane is 20-25 yards deeper than when he receives it for the goal.

You can just see Kane’s head in this still (far bottom right).  This is after Dickie has passed into midfield.

4212651A-1019-4C3A-BD23-59CB952111AD.thumb.jpeg.153175447b13f48ba04c75c1c77e3d3b.jpeg
 

Then see his position on receipt.

987D0305-8FA8-4780-AAE2-3FE5708A5EE2.thumb.jpeg.b494e6a4ec801cf397f834f0f56bfaa8.jpeg

My biggest criticism of City without the ball is our lack of intensity in shifting across the pitch.  We allow teams to go from one side to the other without anyone getting close.

We don’t do the hard yards proactively, we do them reactively.  Some of that comes from poor comms and passing of information.  I played with some great talkers.  Some of that comes from desire and application.

Even teams like Wycombe and Rotherham passed through and around us because we don’t work hard enough or we work inefficiently.

I think the point of the OP was to explain why Sessegnon wasn’t the scapegoat like many had posted or tweeted.  I think we can all see that from the explanations and pictures.

I don’t think Harry was blaming Nagy alone, just saying his intervention / movement weakened our structure.  I don’t think Palmer has helped either in this play.  Up until that point both Palmer and Wells had caused turnovers in the wide positions as QPR tried to play out from central positions, which showed some signs of understanding their roles.

Poor goal. Avoidable goal.

 

 

 

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