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Fully Fit Squad


Bs4Red

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13 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

If we had a fully fit squad throughout this season hypothetically where do you believe we would come? 

 

Personally I think 7th-10th

Had a good debate on a GC about this the other day, I just don’t think we have enough for top 6.

Be interesting to see where Holden would have had us with a fully fit team. A fully fit Mawson, Kalas and Baker would arguably be the best defence in this league. I would agree with your prediction. Somewhere between mid table and playoffs.

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22 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Boooo! Play the game!

Apologies Kodj.If the assumption is we had a fit squad all season under Dean Holden,I reckon ninth place.If we started under Nigel Pearson,I reckon fourth place.How's that?

 

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I think I said before the season started about 15th. Can't remember who we had and hadn't signed at that time, possibly it was before Mawson at least. That figure was based on our performances under Johnson/Holden and I'd stick by it, possibly allowing a jump up to 13th or 12th with a fair wind in our sails.

Really don't think we'd have troubled the play offs though.

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Under Holden, I don't think he would have got the most out of the squad. As the season actually panned out, it would have been a hard job for an experienced manager let alone one in his first job. He had hopes for Williams & Walsh , who have yet to play together, not sure Mawson would have come if it wasn't for injuries , and at one stage we were on our 5th or 6th choice LB. I do  think the squad had potential. If we had a full squad AND Pearson in charge from the start , I do think we would have had a real go at 6th

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56 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

If you had a fully fit squad, my assumption is we’d line up like this, on the basis of 5-3-2

GK Bentley

RWB Hunt

CB Mawson

CB Vyner

CB Kalas

LB DaSilva

CM Williams

CM Nagy

CM Palmer

CF Wells

CF Martin 

Thats probably mid table. So under Holden, 22nd. Under Pearson, 5th.

 

Any team with Martin and Hunt in it isn't atop 6 side.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

If we had a fully fit squad throughout this season hypothetically where do you believe we would come? 

 

Personally I think 7th-10th

Had a good debate on a GC about this the other day, I just don’t think we have enough for top 6.

I think you're right. It's a bit of an imbalanced squad too. We'd have loads of midfielders not getting games, wing-backs that aren't wing-backs and too much inconsistency up front.

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2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

If you had a fully fit squad, my assumption is we’d line up like this, on the basis of 5-3-2

GK Bentley

RWB Hunt

CB Mawson

CB Vyner

CB Kalas

LB DaSilva

CM Williams

CM Nagy

CM Palmer

CF Wells

CF Martin 

Thats probably mid table. So under Holden, 22nd. Under Pearson, 5th.

 

I'm not that sold on 3-5-2- can't put my finger on why exactly. 22nd under Holden? Don't see it- we had similar under him and were far from that, when all were fit.

However that sort of setup has two notable flaws:

2 vs 1 on the left- Vyner can more readily help Hunt on the right which reduces the risk. However neither Wells nor Martin can compensate.

Up against sides that like to control the middle, that third man being Palmer is going to be a problem. I suppose Vyner stepping into CM helps to compensate but then I can exploit/overload the right side too.

Then Martin- good player but overplayed and we burnt him out too quickly. As his time at Derby last season showed.

Paterson for Palmer and Weimann for Martin or Wells at least negates the big tactical holes that can be exploited- rotation of Martin too prevents the aforementioned burnout.

The tactical issue maybe limited tbh- I'm thinking if I'm an opposing side fielding 4-3-3, with 3 genuine CMs, and wide strikers either side of a more normal one who can also drift in. Still 3-5-2 and especially like that can have a big weakness vs such a shape.

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8 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Under Holden, I don't think he would have got the most out of the squad. As the season actually panned out, it would have been a hard job for an experienced manager let alone one in his first job. 

I'm with you on this.

Yes we got some good results under holden but the approach, tactics and performances were consistently poor. Whenever we won we looked very fortunate to have done so.

I'm really not sure what people saw in holdens performances to suggest we'd have done much better with the rest of the players.

Decent players won't mask a lack of good instruction, they'll just get frustrated knowing that they should/could be greater than the sum of their parts under the right management. 

The way things were heading, I would've been grateful to stay up under holden, even with a full squad 

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53 minutes ago, daored said:

Interesting that people have Mawson in a ‘fully fit’ squad. If Baker had been fit we wouldn’t have signed him on loan 

Exactly. I was about to say the same. 
If considering a fully fit squad, then we shouldn’t include the loanees of Mawson & Sessegnon. Should be based on ‘our’ players only. 
 

And it would be around 10th-12th. 

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1 hour ago, Littlesh*t said:

You say that but a team that consisted of players like orr, byfield etc made a play off final. I would personally have hunt and Martin over these 2

Comparing apples and pears. That was more than 10 years ago, the quality has kept on improving.

Our team now is, on paper, miles better than the play-off team.

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12 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Comparing apples and pears. That was more than 10 years ago, the quality has kept on improving.

Our team now is, on paper, miles better than the play-off team.

Yeah ok fair enough and I appreciate it has moved on. The point i was trying to make though was that it isn't always the best 11 players that make the best team.

I dont think hunt is amazing but i think he gets far to much criticism. He really isn't as bad as many make out

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1 hour ago, Littlesh*t said:

You say that but a team that consisted of players like orr, byfield etc made a play off final. I would personally have hunt and Martin over these 2

Wasn't Byfield our top scorer that year with just nine goals?

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9 minutes ago, Slacker said:

Wasn't Byfield our top scorer that year with just nine goals?

City finished the season with a goal difference of only +1 which is amazing for 4th place 

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31 minutes ago, Littlesh*t said:

I dont think hunt is amazing but i think he gets far to much criticism. He really isn't as bad as many make out

Hunt is a decent enough Championship full back. Steady, reliable and experienced enough to pass his nouse onto younger players. 

A useful guy to have in the squad imo.

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Should be based on ‘our’ players only. 

And it would be around 10th-12th. 

Looking at what Holden thought he had to work with, I do think it may have been better.

KEEPER;  Bentley, possibly one of the best keepers in the division.

DEFENCE; Hunt, solid if spectacular . DaSilve U21 International technically very good. Kalas & Baker very solid pairing. Playing with a 3 Vyner looked a very good Championship CB.

MIDFIELD;  Williams & Walsh both coming off the back of an excellent year, I believe both were player of the year for their clubs. Add Pato or Weimann or or Palmer as the spark that Holden wanted. I would have gone with Nagy , but we had options.

FORWARDS; Martin & Wells would probably have been DH's preferred front 2, at least to start.

All theory and supposition , but to me that looks like a team that could be pushing towards 6th place, probably a bit short, but I think we could have been in contention. 

When you think we were on about 6/7th choice left back, used 6/7 different CB's and had used around 10/12 different players in midfield , to be where we are isn't bad.

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Exactly. I was about to say the same. 
If considering a fully fit squad, then we shouldn’t include the loanees of Mawson & Sessegnon. Should be based on ‘our’ players only. 
 

And it would be around 10th-12th. 

Mawson for sure shouldn't be considered, but Sess  is a perfectly valid inclusion.  He was signed to replace Pereira, not because we had injuries.  He was a tactical acquisition.

A fully fit team, with the absence of a Championship ready right winger in the squad for me would be....

Bentley

Sessegnon
Kalas
Vyner/Moore
Baker
DaSilva

Nagy
Williams
Walsh

Wells
Fam/Martin

Strong bench too then with O'Leary, Moore/Vyner, Hunt, Bakinson, Palmer, Paterson, Weimann, O'Dowda, Martin/Fam.

With Semenyo, Rowe, Massengo waiting in the wings.

We're a little light up front, but to be honest, that's not a bad squad.  Top 8 without doubt.  And with the right guidance that's a play-off push.

Just think of the promise of the future with the likes of Towler, Pearson, Pring and Bell getting league loans and following the same progression path as Reid, Bryan and Kelly.  We've got a lot of promising youngsters coming through.  I feel sorry for those mentioned as the injured players are not the only ones who have been affected by injuries.  They've been prevented the opportunity to develop at league level for a full season.

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With a fully fit squad we still would not have a 20 goal per year sticker or a winger who can beat his man and deliver an accurate cross consistently. O'Dowd or Semenyo do not fit that bill.

Looking forward, to put a competitive team together would need at least 

A good right back 

A left back unless we always play 5 at the back. DaSilva leaves us really exposed in the air in a 4 and seems very injury prone.

Another centre back for cover

Unless Bakinson matures very fast a good centre midfield

A real winger that can yes beat a man and cross a ball but also not be a liability when we lose possession.

A really good centre forward

I hope that Steve is feeling generous

For me looking at next year, if we make some of the recruitments needed, find a set style of play that suits us and a real team and work effort consistently I would be happy.

Realistic expectations are needed. It will take more than 1 year to fix the mistakes of the last 4.

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