Famara Diedhiou

[spudski]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

I think we have seen games where his hold up play is good. His touch has been good enough to keep the ball and lay it off. Of course not saying he's ever been like a prime Ibrahimovic. But he would hold the ball up and bring others into play.

He loses the ball more often than not...or falls over. I think that part of his game is really really poor.

[Desso]

2 hours ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

I think IF he is the best option available to the manager we should play him regardless of the situation with his contract.

We are paying him so we should use him.

Don't think we should. Rather play with 10 men, then he wouldn't be there to pass to so he could lose it and put us under pressure again.

[KegCity]

11 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think you're being generous to Famara. He has some genuine qualities at this level...but his first touch is absolutely atrocious for a Professional footballer. Not just at this level...it's dire. There are amateur players with better control than him. It really is awful. 

Yes and Chris Martin has to run through treacle whenever he chases a ball, neither are world beaters. For me, Famara's trampoline feet aren't the issue, it's the golden chances he squanders. 

In his defence, he's not suited to passing football and its not where many of his goals come from. Like sticking Wells out wide or Massengo as a destroyer, playing players out of position means they don't play to their best.

[pillred]

34 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

This has an unpleasant aroma of the Maynard debacle. 
I personally think that NP will continue to play him until Martin is fit. It's in Fam's interest to play well in order to attract a new club and in our own interest for obvious reasons. 

In a strange way I would be disappointed if he turned it on big time now - because that would make his inevitable departure on a free harder to take. 

Fam's interest to play well? not sure he has read the script.

[The Bard]

2 hours ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

I think IF he is the best option available to the manager we should play him regardless of the situation with his contract.

We are paying him so we should use him.

This is why I despair with some people. At least he's fit and available rather than out with an injury.

 

He's clearly has the ability to win us games as almost happened last night.

Compare with Baker. Overall when taking into account Wages and Fee they have cost us more or less the same (£8million). He's contributed heaps more though. If he doesn't sign a contract then so be it. 

[Carey 6]

14 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Yes and Chris Martin has to run through treacle whenever he chases a ball, neither are world beaters. For me, Famara's trampoline feet aren't the issue, it's the golden chances he squanders. 

In his defence, he's not suited to passing football and its not where many of his goals come from. Like sticking Wells out wide or Massengo as a destroyer, playing players out of position means they don't play to their best.

 

4th Feb. But still.

[mozo]

Gilmarten was gushing with praise when asked about Louis Britton and suggested he deserves a chance. I know RG has a duty to be positive about our young players but he seemed especially glowing about LB and that keeper that we had on the bench.

[LondonBristolian]

In fairness to Diedhiou, I don't think running and pressing for 90 minutes has ever been his game and I don't think that's necessarily a contract running down thing so much as that just is not the player he is.

The issue for me is that was really being exposed as an issue when Holden had us playing well at the start of the season and is even more of an issue under Pearson. I feel we need a striker who runs and presses more to make the system work. 

I don't bear him any grudges or hold him responsible for our failure to either flog him or tie him down to a deal, I don't want him to be dropped as punishment for not signing or for not working hard since January. However I do think the gap between us and the bottom of the table is sufficient not to persist with a player who is not fitting in with the team dynamic. Watkins has his limitations and Semenyo does too as a striker but I'd rather see one of those upfront as I think they'd fit the system much better. And I'd certainly like to see Bell or Britton get a chance to show what they can do. 

I do accept the counter argument that, if we're not playing well, Diedhiou has the most ability of any of our strikers to make something out of nothing. But I think a striker who better complements the system would mean we were less likely to be reliant on something out of nothing to create chances in the first place. 

[M.D]

3 hours ago, Selred said:

We can't play him after his contract expires..... 

I'm sure you understand my thoughts however poorly I wrote them.. 

[Cowshed]

47 minutes ago, spudski said:

He loses the ball more often than not...or falls over. I think that part of his game is really really poor.

Passing accuracy is/was 55%. That is beyond very poor.

 

[Robbored]

17 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Passing accuracy is/was 55%. That is beyond very poor.

 

I find it difficult to describe what Famara brings succinctly.

He can occupy defenders creating space for others. He does score goals some of them spectacular but he’s not a natural born finisher. He also defends well in our own box which for LJ was an important part of Fam’s game. 

However his first touch is inconsistent at best and pass completion percentage is woeful. Its as if his game is something of a contradiction.

He’s a real enigma.

[spudski]

35 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Passing accuracy is/was 55%. That is beyond very poor.

 

Yes I've noted that too.

Tbh...our passing accuracy states haven't been good of late at all. Seems to get better as games go on for some reason.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Carey 6 said:

 

4th Feb. But still.

That stat means nothing...it could be 32% of one shot per game.

Someone else could justifiably get into better scoring positions and score more goals.

Let's face it...we've been pretty much bottom of the XG table last two seasons.

People blame the 'creators'...but they can't create if the person they pass to isn't getting into good positions.

We've gone backwards ever since he was introduced.

He has some strengths, but he gets less stick because he's a nice guy.

[Clutton Caveman]

18 hours ago, M.D said:

NP has always liked to play with one up top, a target man, we only have one and thats Fam unfortunately, you can see this in taking Wells off tonight and not giving him the chance in the central roll.

Wells is doing good work except when he gets close to goal. At that point he is like a nervous bride with no calmness, first touch or shooting accuracy. Semenyo is not a striker. He just isn't. So with the thought of that combination up front I see how Fam gets picked

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I don't think Martin was that good at pressing earlier in the season. And even worse when he had played 3 games a week for a while and looked shattered.

I do agree Diedhiou is worse at pressing though, and has worse stamina than Martin. Though I think Fam has more pace. If only Martin had a little bit more pace, he'd be so much more of a threat.

I always used to think Fam's overall game, not just his pressing but his touch and his general game in and out of possession suffered with playing weekend then midweek games, especially if not being brought off. Or even beyond 70 minutes even with one game a week, he would not look the same player. 

I think he's never been particularly good at pressing. At the moment he looks like he needs a rest imo. He looks shattered in everything he is doing. His touch can be quite good when on form, but at the moment we can see what is going to happen like when Semenyo laid it off to him after winning it back high in their half. It really did look like we should have taken advantage of the times we won it high. At least test the goalie. It was a very tired looking heavy first touch by Fam.

If Pearson does not drop Fam then he must be happy enough. There is still the odd thing he does that Wells would not be able to do with his body, but not enough of it at the moment. Obviously Wells can do a lot of things Fam can't in that role too, and it's interesting to see if Pearson wants that from his number 9. So far he hasn't wanted the on the shoulder Wells type for whatever reason.

My overall point on effort is that I do believe he is giving his all. I just don't think he has it in him to sprint like people want.

EDIT. probably being a bit unfair on Martin saying his pressing wasn't that good. I think the more games he played the worse it got though, which is the same for Fam too. 

Wells probably can just keep going in his pressing intensity. But he's that type of player.

And the low percentage of team possession probably only makes it harder for anyone who is not great at pressing and has stamina issues like Fam.

You know I’ve said for ages I’d rather Fam put in more effort and blew up after 60-70 mins than tried to last 90.  But he just isn’t contributing anywhere near enough and it’s stifling the whole team.  Some of it is lack of being proactive (of which some of that is lack of football intelligence), some of it is lack of effort / desire.  You mention about being on his heels....that happens in multiple situations with Fam.  In all his time here he only scored one header from an Eliasson cross (Reading or QPR - a team in hoops anyway), because he doesn’t make proactive runs.

Yes, none of us can second guess NP on Fam and the role he’s playing, but if he’s giving his all, his stamina levels must’ve dropped off a cliff.

1 hour ago, KegCity said:

Famara is a much more useful player than Martin for us, neither are consistent in front of goal. It'll all depend on how NP wants us to play, but if we're going to play high press (yes please) then Wells needs to be up front.

We play much better team football with Martin imho.  He brings other players into the game, provides a target to play off, wins free-kicks, allows you to progress up the pitch as a team.  I wouldn’t have flogged him like Holden did, and then maybe he’d still be available.  Wells and Martin pressed effectively / efficiently earlier this season in the 352.  Martin knew when to drop in and help the midfield.  For someone with little pace he offered more on the channels than Fam has.

Martin 9 goal contributions in 2046 mins (227 min per gc)

Fam 11 goal contributions in 2234 mins (203 min per gc) - inc 1 penalty.

Not a lot in it.

1 hour ago, KegCity said:

Yes and Chris Martin has to run through treacle whenever he chases a ball, neither are world beaters. For me, Famara's trampoline feet aren't the issue, it's the golden chances he squanders. 

In his defence, he's not suited to passing football and its not where many of his goals come from. Like sticking Wells out wide or Massengo as a destroyer, playing players out of position means they don't play to their best.

In fairness I think Fam’s finishing isn’t too bad.

54 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

In fairness to Diedhiou, I don't think running and pressing for 90 minutes has ever been his game and I don't think that's necessarily a contract running down thing so much as that just is not the player he is.

The issue for me is that was really being exposed as an issue when Holden had us playing well at the start of the season and is even more of an issue under Pearson. I feel we need a striker who runs and presses more to make the system work. 

I don't bear him any grudges or hold him responsible for our failure to either flog him or tie him down to a deal, I don't want him to be dropped as punishment for not signing or for not working hard since January. However I do think the gap between us and the bottom of the table is sufficient not to persist with a player who is not fitting in with the team dynamic. Watkins has his limitations and Semenyo does too as a striker but I'd rather see one of those upfront as I think they'd fit the system much better. And I'd certainly like to see Bell or Britton get a chance to show what they can do. 

I do accept the counter argument that, if we're not playing well, Diedhiou has the most ability of any of our strikers to make something out of nothing. But I think a striker who better complements the system would mean we were less likely to be reliant on something out of nothing to create chances in the first place. 

I don’t think it’s necessarily about a high press, it’s about an effective / efficient press.  I don’t think we have the players to do a Barnsley, but we should be better than we are when CBs are looking to pass into midfield or bring their full-backs up the pitch like Douglas last night.

Final para - if your team mates aren’t confident the ball is gonna stick, they stop making runs to receive.  That’s why we were more fluid early season with Martin, and the likes of Weimann running beyond him than of late.

 

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I find it difficult to describe what Famara brings succinctly.

He can occupy defenders creating space for others. He does score goals some of them spectacular but he’s not a natural born finisher. He also defends well in our own box which for LJ was an important part of Fam’s game. 

However his first touch is inconsistent at best and pass completion percentage is woeful. Its as if his game is something of a contradiction.

He’s a real enigma.

Or.....imho he allows himself to be marked by one defender (not defenders), creating nothing by way of dynamic movement for his teammates to exploit.

Fam’s overarching stats this season:

 

 

[Dolman Block B]

Hell of a lot of talk going on that Famara is 100% off! 

Rumour that the lease on the property he rents will not be renewed and even that his wife and kids have already moved out and away from Bristol.

No idea if this is true, got a Whatsapp earlier from a friend who knows his current landlord who has confirmed this.

Perhaps a reason hes not been at the races lately?

If he is off then fair play, hes given his all (apart from the past 10 games) and i wish him well wherever he ends up 

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Or.....imho he allows himself to be marked by one defender (not defenders), creating nothing by way of dynamic movement for his teammates to exploit.

Fam’s overarching stats this season:

 

 

Don’t you think that despite Famara’s poor overarching stats that it’s odd that he seems to be an important part of the squad?

He played pretty much every game under LJ, most games under Deano and as yet not many under Big Nige who’s only be in post a few games....

As I posted earlier, the guys an enigma.

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I think we have seen games where his hold up play is good. His touch has been good enough to keep the ball and lay it off. Of course not saying he's ever been like a prime Ibrahimovic. But he would hold the ball up and bring others into play.

On the odd occasion . If the stats for it were available (and I’m not a stats person ) I think you’ll find the vast majority of balls into him doesn’t stick & his lay off are normally wide of the mark or over hit . I agree with spudski. My first touch was a lot better than fams & I was a left back that played regional   & bristol & district leagues . Also he “reportedly “ wants £30k a week . 
If we’re going to play 4231 in the future , we don’t need a target man anyway . Good coaching, good movement between the front 4 & a natural finisher . 

[spudski]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

In fairness to Diedhiou, I don't think running and pressing for 90 minutes has ever been his game and I don't think that's necessarily a contract running down thing so much as that just is not the player he is.

The issue for me is that was really being exposed as an issue when Holden had us playing well at the start of the season and is even more of an issue under Pearson. I feel we need a striker who runs and presses more to make the system work. 

I don't bear him any grudges or hold him responsible for our failure to either flog him or tie him down to a deal, I don't want him to be dropped as punishment for not signing or for not working hard since January. However I do think the gap between us and the bottom of the table is sufficient not to persist with a player who is not fitting in with the team dynamic. Watkins has his limitations and Semenyo does too as a striker but I'd rather see one of those upfront as I think they'd fit the system much better. And I'd certainly like to see Bell or Britton get a chance to show what they can do. 

I do accept the counter argument that, if we're not playing well, Diedhiou has the most ability of any of our strikers to make something out of nothing. But I think a striker who better complements the system would mean we were less likely to be reliant on something out of nothing to create chances in the first place. 

If you can't run or press for 90 mins in pretty much one third of the pitch, have a foot like a trampoline, have a pass accuracy of 55% then you've got to be pretty much brilliant at everything else you do. Which he isn't. He's not even a natural striker of a ball. 

His best attribute is funnily defending at set pieces. I've often wondered as a striker how he wins headers and has good awareness at set pieces when defending, but less so when offensive...go figure

 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Don’t you think that despite Famara’s poor overarching stats that it’s odd that he seems to be an important part of the squad?

yes, very odd....but then again if I’d been part of the recruitment team and process that paid a record (at the time) £5.3m for him, I’d probably want to justify my talent spotting credentials than admit I’d got it wrong!

But goals influence thinking...and I think he’s generally done enough to make LJ and DH think he’s doing a good job. Personally, I’d hope the pros would do a bit more critical thinking / analysis than that.

He played pretty much every game under LJ, most games under Deano and as yet not many under Big Nige who’s only be in post a few games....

interesting that on the few occasions he’s not been first choice:

• 18/19 - after 6 game ban when Weimann and either Pato / Taylor got the starts
• 19/20 - when Semenyo and Weimann were starting
• 20/21 - when Martin and Wells were first pick

the games when he’s got back in have possibly (debate and discuss) been where we’ve seen him at his best, playing with a bit of fire in his belly....even got sent off v Charlton after scoring last season (fired right up).  Suggests attitude/motivation issues to me.

As I posted earlier, the guys an enigma.

agree.  I don’t think he’s a bad player.  Mis-used?  A bit.  He’d frustrate the hell out of me if he was my teammate.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

If you can't run or press for 90 mins in pretty much one third of the pitch, have a foot like a trampoline, have a pass accuracy of 55% then you've got to be pretty much brilliant at everything else you do. Which he isn't. He's not even a natural striker of a ball. 

His best attribute is funnily defending at set pieces. I've often wondered as a striker how he wins headers and has good awareness at set pieces when defending, but less so when offensive...go figure

 

Coach A to Fam “see that 5 yard diameter zone on the 6 yard box, at the near post, just attack any ball that comes into that zone, doesn’t matter where it goes, just don’t let anyone else win it, you don’t even have to marl anyone specifically, just win the header or put off anyone else”

That is the simplicity of the instruction for defending.  If the ball is too high for you or you opponent to win it, you’ve done your job, your man didn’t score or flick it on.  Easy peasy.

However, As the attacker you don’t just have to win the challenge, but direct it on goal...assuming the corner is put in your vicinity too, and at the right height, direction to enable to to do that.

Much harder to be an attacker at a corner than the person trying to defend it.  That’s why few goals come from corner set-pieces overall.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Exactly...you can't blame him...he is what he is. You've got to blame the people that brought him here thinking he'd fit our game.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Coach A to Fam “see that 5 yard diameter zone on the 6 yard box, at the near post, just attack any ball that comes into that zone, doesn’t matter where it goes, just don’t let anyone else win it, you don’t even have to marl anyone specifically, just win the header or put off anyone else”

That is the simplicity of the instruction for defending.  If the ball is too high for you or you opponent to win it, you’ve done your job, your man didn’t score or flick it on.  Easy peasy.

However, As the attacker you don’t just have to win the challenge, but direct it on goal...assuming the corner is put in your vicinity too, and at the right height, direction to enable to to do that.

Much harder to be an attacker at a corner than the person trying to defend it.  That’s why few goals come from corner set-pieces overall.

Oh I agree...but a man of his stature has very little awareness in the opposition's box imo. 

How many headers does he actually win when offensive,band if he does, the direction can be anywhere...unlike Martin.

[Carey 6]

49 minutes ago, spudski said:

That stat means nothing...it could be 32% of one shot per game.

Someone else could justifiably get into better scoring positions and score more goals.

Let's face it...we've been pretty much bottom of the XG table last two seasons.

People blame the 'creators'...but they can't create if the person they pass to isn't getting into good positions.

We've gone backwards ever since he was introduced.

He has some strengths, but he gets less stick because he's a nice guy.

That stat is nothing to do with xG.

It literally means he scored 1/3 shots at that point in the season. Impressive. His previous record a couple of seasons ago had him near or at the bottom for shots taken - goals scored.

It’s something he has improved on. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

Exactly...you can't blame him...he is what he is. You've got to blame the people that brought him here thinking he'd fit our game....and thought because he was 6’3” he must be a target-man and we should bang balls up to him.

Fixed

Just now, spudski said:

Oh I agree...but a man of his stature has very little awareness in the opposition's box imo. 

How many headers does he actually win when offensive,band if he does, the direction can be anywhere...unlike Martin.

Yeah, bonkers.

If I was up front for City (fat chance) and Eliasson was playing RW, cutting in on his left, my proactive run would always be to ultimately get across the front of my marker, because I think 7/10, it will be a flatter cross that won’t beat my marker by being too high.  I might drag by marker to the back post with my first movement, but then use that to burst in front of him.

Why can’t a £5m player do that?

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Fixed

Yeah, bonkers.

If I was up front for City (fat chance) and Eliasson was playing RW, cutting in on his left, my proactive run would always be to ultimately get across the front of my marker, because I think 7/10, it will be a flatter cross that won’t beat my marker by being too high.  I might drag by marker to the back post with my first movement, but then use that to burst in front of him.

Why can’t a £5m player do that?

Tbh...I look at a lot of pro players now and instinct in a lot of them in what is natural to do is often lost. They are too focussed on what they've been told to do...rather than reacting to situations that naturally arise in a game.

Matty Taylor was natural at positioning.

How often do we see teams persevere down one side because they've been told that's the weak side, to the detriment of opportunities and space that arise on the other side or elsewhere on the pitch.

 

[LondonBristolian]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I completely agree with what you say about the fact he seems to play much better when he needs to prove himself and seems not to motivate himself when not. To be honest, I feel that's been a consistent frustration with a number of players over recent seasons and one of areas I'd most like Pearson to fix or bring in players that can deliver a bit more consistently.

I know the pitch was not ideal last night but it's incredibly frustrating that the same outfield players who played so cohesively against Birmingham looked like a bunch of strangers three days later and it's been a recurrent problem over the years.

We're not going to play well every game, and I do get that, but I feel we have far too many players who fluctuate wildly in form and Diedhiou is very much one of them. 

[Betty Swallocks]

I’ve enjoyed Famara for the past few years but he’s currently playing like he’s got an important medical that he needs to pass in the summer. 

[Silvio Dante]

Some really good points here. My twopenneth, as someone who’s been fairly critical of Famara 

- I totally agree that motivation is huge. If he can’t be arsed, you just as well not have him on the pitch. He’s not an “in the trenches” footballer, he’s a player who plays when he wants

- Our best periods during his time here seem to have been when he’s not been in the team. The obvious example being the Man U period. That doesn’t make him an inherently “bad” player, but it does feed into the first point - he brings the side down if he’s not “on” as when he’s not on, he brings nothing

**LJ Klaxon**
 

- I know a few of us have been reading the Sunderland forum. One of the big things on there has been LJs comments about how early on he saw players weren’t getting across the front man. Wyke has seen it now, and is reaping the rewards of doing so. For McGeady-Wyke read Eliasson-Fam. Clearly LJ could see the weakness, and Wyke reacted. So, the problem in not getting across the front man doesn’t appear to be with coaching, but with Fam 

**Second LJ Klaxon**
 

- Busy bees. If we had an identity under LJ it was that. Fam isn’t that. At all. And we played better under LJ without Fam. So, if he’s not an “LJ player” can we class him as an Ashton signing? He certainly has the hallmarks to me...

Overall, he’s done OK. Not great, and I shed no tears for him leaving. I don’t consider it a great investment overall, and I don’t think he’s developed while here. More than anything, I don’t think we’d ever kick on as a team with Fam in it so him leaving feels a good result overall - notwithstanding the financial hit.