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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I just don't agree it's lack of effort. I can't imagine Pearson would keep him on for 90 if he thought it was that. Pearson keeps praising the team for collective effort. Fam is the man right at the top of that.

I know you don’t Jon.  That’s fine.  I’m just explaining my view and why I form that opinion, rather than change your view.

NP also said last week we aren’t putting enough effort into defending from the front.  Palmer certainly upped his contribution in this game....for all to see.

I think with Fam it's that he physically can't sprint like some fans want him to. Pearson seemed very happy with how we as a team played off the ball last night.

I don’t want / need him to sprint, but I want him to do more than amble or do nothing at all.  I do expect him to engage some of the time.

Interesting seeing Pearson saying twice now - when talking about Swansea dominating us first half and after last night's game - about us being poor in possession because of working so hard to win it back.

exactly, we give it away far too cheaply in the top half of the pitch.  Not just Fam the fault there, but a big part imho.  We spend periods chasing it, win it back, then give it straight back!  Kalas eluded to that.  No doubt in my mind who he was partly aiming it at.  Again, not just Fam.

Until we see something different, e.g. Callum LM/W and Wells instead of Fam, we’ve nothing to compare it too, not under NP anyway.

Something I've never really thought of before he said it. I'm assuming last night when saying that he meant the same as he did about failing to keep the ball first half against Swansea. Working so hard off the ball, that when we do get it we don't have the energy to play football and keep possession.

quite simply, work harder when we’ve got it, and reverse the tide, make the opposition chase you, so they’re tired when they get it.  That’s simple in theory, but I do think some of it is lack of confidence to make a run because you think the recipient is t gonna get hold of it....again that’s not just Fam.  But Liverpool in the 80s worked harder with the ball to mean they knackered the other team.  It was partly what we did early season, even if it wasn’t perfect.  Yin and Yang (LJ).

When we finally see JD back, look at how players commit to make receiving positions because they know 1) he’ll get the ball under control and / or 2) they might even get it first time and exploit that extra bit of time.  It’s a simple game made of complex dynamics.

He said a lower block worked better 2nd half. And I agree that was a bit of a better 2nd half performance. We should have done better in the break a few times in that second half and defended mainly fairly comfortably imo.

it did.  Did you notice that Semenyo and Wells tucked inside as part of the early phase of Blackburn’s possession effectively doing some of Fam’s work, and then had to do their own jobs to get back out to BD and R-C.  No wonder they both came off! ?

 

Comments above.

Also, some stats of our 3 main strikers, although Wells has played a good portion on the wing.

5703868C-8D33-4934-B263-E09F83EA9664.thumb.jpeg.24ec6305379b8599f0d771d06ec205d8.jpeg

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21 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think the 19/20 season run we went on was the best spell we've seen under LJ. 

Fam I think started all of the 15 game unbeaten run (including Huddersfield and Bolton cup games).

Won 7 league games in a row during that spell.

And then a bit later in the season the spell where we beat Middlesbrough away, Sheffield United 3-2 away and WBA at home Fam started in all of those. Great wins they were.

And even in 17/18 we were doing very well before Fam got that knee injury in the Palace game.

Fam started 11 of the first 13 League fixtures and we only lost 1 of those he started.

And in the cup run he had a big part to play in beating 2 prem opponents in Stoke win and he started in Watford away win too.

And even last season. Okay not much to be too positive about. But I thought the best spell was the 4 wins in the row where Fam was up top in the lone role at his best.

Just as we brought in Wells and then started playing him alongside Fam which made us worse from then on! 

I'm not saying he's great. But he's done a good job overall in his time with us.

18/19 not 19/20 ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️ Two seasons ago.

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I think the 19/20 season run we went on was the best spell we've seen under LJ. 

Fam I think started all of the 15 game unbeaten run (including Huddersfield and Bolton cup games).

Won 7 league games in a row during that spell.

And then a bit later in the season the spell where we beat Middlesbrough away, Sheffield United 3-2 away and WBA at home Fam started in all of those. Great wins they were.

And even in 17/18 we were doing very well before Fam got that knee injury in the Palace game.

Fam started 11 of the first 13 League fixtures and we only lost 1 of those he started.

And in the cup run he had a big part to play in beating 2 prem opponents in Stoke win and he started in Watford away win too.

And even last season. Okay not much to be too positive about. But I thought the best spell was the 4 wins in the row where Fam was up top in the lone role at his best.

Just as we brought in Wells and then started playing him alongside Fam which made us worse from then on! 

I'm not saying he's great. But he's done a good job overall in his time with us.

Excellent post JD. 

Overall I think he’s been worth the money, I wanted us to keep him but now I’m happy with whatever & to see how Pearson wants to take us forward. 

Even in the 17/18 season when we went on the cup run, arguably playing some of the best football, eventually that all came to a stop & fans couldn’t wait for his return from injury! I remember how delighted people were to see him back at Derby away I think it was!

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4 hours ago, spudski said:

If you can't run or press for 90 mins in pretty much one third of the pitch, have a foot like a trampoline, have a pass accuracy of 55% then you've got to be pretty much brilliant at everything else you do. Which he isn't. He's not even a natural striker of a ball. 

His best attribute is funnily defending at set pieces. I've often wondered as a striker how he wins headers and has good awareness at set pieces when defending, but less so when offensive...go figure ?

 

His best attribute is scoring 1 in 3 in the Championship 

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13 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yep. I think he has done well overall.

It's funny like you say, many were desperate for Fam to return back then.

I do not mind Fam going at all. Depends a lot on how Pearson wants us to play. 

Nice to actually have complete trust in how our manager sees things!

We were in 17/18....we’d dropped off in form, and hoped he’d return to the team and play like he had in his opening few months.  I think those opening few months and that 18/19 spell you elude to were his best spells here (I’m talking more than a few games on the trot).

I suspect that 18/19 form led to the interest from Turkey....that’s when the rumours first started and as I understand (allegedly!) that was when we tried to tie down Fam for longer knowing that if he got to 1 year out, we’d hit problems.  So we’ve tried on and off for best part of two seasons to extend him....and failed.

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15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You know I’ve said for ages I’d rather Fam put in more effort and blew up after 60-70 mins than tried to last 90.  But he just isn’t contributing anywhere near enough and it’s stifling the whole team.  Some of it is lack of being proactive (of which some of that is lack of football intelligence), some of it is lack of effort / desire.  You mention about being on his heels....that happens in multiple situations with Fam.  In all his time here he only scored one header from an Eliasson cross (Reading or QPR - a team in hoops anyway), because he doesn’t make proactive runs.

Yes, none of us can second guess NP on Fam and the role he’s playing, but if he’s giving his all, his stamina levels must’ve dropped off a cliff.

We play much better team football with Martin imho.  He brings other players into the game, provides a target to play off, wins free-kicks, allows you to progress up the pitch as a team.  I wouldn’t have flogged him like Holden did, and then maybe he’d still be available.  Wells and Martin pressed effectively / efficiently earlier this season in the 352.  Martin knew when to drop in and help the midfield.  For someone with little pace he offered more on the channels than Fam has.

Martin 9 goal contributions in 2046 mins (227 min per gc)

Fam 11 goal contributions in 2234 mins (203 min per gc) - inc 1 penalty.

Not a lot in it.

In fairness I think Fam’s finishing isn’t too bad.

I don’t think it’s necessarily about a high press, it’s about an effective / efficient press.  I don’t think we have the players to do a Barnsley, but we should be better than we are when CBs are looking to pass into midfield or bring their full-backs up the pitch like Douglas last night.

Final para - if your team mates aren’t confident the ball is gonna stick, they stop making runs to receive.  That’s why we were more fluid early season with Martin, and the likes of Weimann running beyond him than of late.

 

Out of possession.

 

For five minutes v Blackburn he was pressing, then I will be charitable after ten he went into a sort of quasi press/blocking options/walking mode. As expected. This part of his game has been holding the team back for seasons.

Defending of set pieces. Decent. Others like Martin can do that as well.

 

In possession.

His touch. His passing has always been poor. This part of his game has been holding the team back for seasons. He has not improved.

His movement. This part of his game has been holding the team back for seasons. He appears to be getting worse. 

His forging of partnerships.  This part of his game has been holding the team back for seasons. A series of partners have found it difficult to play with him.

 

Goal scoring

Average

A consistent high ratio of goals v shots. 

 

Physical 

Strong.

Aggressive.

Not quick.  

Not high energy. 

Fit? Struggles to recover post explosive movement.

Flat footed.

Unbalanced.

 

Mindset

Leader? One you can rely on? Rolls his sleeves up? Focussed on task?

Good bloke but leader no.

 

 

On a technical, tactical, physical and psychological levels the limitations of this player have been holding the team back.  Standards need to be re set.

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17 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Out of possession.

 

For five minutes v Blackburn he was pressing, then I will be charitable after ten he went into a sort of quasi press/blocking options/walking mode. As expected. This part of his game has been holding the team back for seasons.

Defending of set pieces. Decent. Others like Martin can do that as well.

 

In possession.

His touch. His passing has always been poor. This part of his game has been holding the team back for seasons. He has not improved.

His movement. This part of his game has been holding the team back for seasons. He appears to be getting worse. 

His forging of partnerships.  This part of his game has been holding the team back for seasons. A series of partners have found it difficult to play with him.

 

Goal scoring

Average

A consistent high ratio of goals v shots. 

 

Physical 

Strong.

Aggressive.

Not quick.  

Not high energy. 

Fit? Struggles to recover post explosive movement.

Flat footed.

Unbalanced.

 

Mindset

Leader? One you can rely on? Rolls his sleeves up? Focussed on task?

Good bloke but leader no.

 

 

On a technical, tactical, physical and psychological levels the limitations of this player have been holding the team back.  Standards need to be re set.

I'd say that was pretty much spot on.

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27 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Out of possession.

 

For five minutes v Blackburn he was pressing, then I will be charitable after ten he went into a sort of quasi press/blocking options/walking mode. As expected. This part of his game has been holding the team back for seasons.

Defending of set pieces. Decent. Others like Martin can do that as well.

 

In possession.

His touch. His passing has always been poor. This part of his game has been holding the team back for seasons. He has not improved.

His movement. This part of his game has been holding the team back for seasons. He appears to be getting worse. 

His forging of partnerships.  This part of his game has been holding the team back for seasons. A series of partners have found it difficult to play with him.

 

Goal scoring

Average

A consistent high ratio of goals v shots. 

 

Physical 

Strong.

Aggressive.

Not quick.  

Not high energy. 

Fit? Struggles to recover post explosive movement.

Flat footed.

Unbalanced.

 

Mindset

Leader? One you can rely on? Rolls his sleeves up? Focussed on task?

Good bloke but leader no.

 

 

On a technical, tactical, physical and psychological levels the limitations of this player have been holding the team back.  Standards need to be re set.

Bang on the money ....thank you.

Nige will have him gone,, pronto..

Well,,,come in No9 your time is up.

 

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2 hours ago, KegCity said:

Oh I’m not saying he’s a bad striker, there’s a reason he’s scored 50+ goals for us. That stat doesn’t say anything about where he’s scoring from or the chances he doesn’t take though.

Here are FDs 44 shots in all comps this season.

9BE5C972-4C11-42E5-ACF1-AA91211C00B0.jpeg.2f999e13d38e6ecf7b92527451dc84ec.jpeg
 

Nahki Wells.

B2607781-C5D3-4771-BFF6-1DF984443511.jpeg.ba4f33e43db79db2daf6eacc35300eba.jpeg

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14 hours ago, The Bard said:

His best attribute is scoring 1 in 3 in the Championship 

Yep, a more than decent record in a team that plays almost exclusively on the back foot, in part due to the weaknesses in Fam’s game. I would assume that NP will be looking for us to progress into a more front foot mindset and I’m sure he will be looking at Fam and questioning whether he has the movement and the ability to press defenders that will allow that or whether he needs to sign a 1 in 3’er that does have those attributes. Or perhaps whether he feels he and the staff can coach Semenyo who clearly has the movement and the pressing ability into being able to score 1 in 3.

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Could we have done better splashing out £5 million+, most certainly. Worse, well possibly.

I’ve defended the guy from accusations on here that he’s a ‘donkey’ ... he’s certainly not that. He’s just middling for me. In a few years time when I reflect on his time with us the stand out capability is ...... his defending, which says a lot. I’d also note him for being a ‘nuisance’ as well for opposition defenders. 

His physical attributes are let down by lack of real pace and stamina which he doesn’t seem to be able to compensate for with ‘football intelligence’.  So, with how football has developed in England, a bit of a dinosaur.  His biggest drawback though is lack of consistency between games, and within them as well. Better than some in the squad admittedly, but if we are realistic about challenging for anything we’ve got to quickly rid ourselves of those who can’t put consistent performances together. 
 

Perhaps though the stand-out memory of his time with us will actually be someone else, Mark Ashton, for forking out the record transfer fee, then letting him go for nothing. Bad business from someone who self-promotes himself as being financially astute and excelling at striking deals. 

 

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2 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Could we have done better splashing out £5 million+, most certainly. Worse, well possibly.

I’ve defended the guy from accusations on here that he’s a ‘donkey’ ... he’s certainly not that.

for all my criticism I don’t think he’s a bad player either, I just want / expect more from him ultimately.

He’s just middling for me. In a few years time when I reflect on his time with us the stand out capability is ...... his defending, which says a lot. I’d also note him for being a ‘nuisance’ as well for opposition defenders. 

His physical attributes are let down by lack of real pace and stamina which he doesn’t seem to be able to compensate for with ‘football intelligence’.

That’s the key point for me, and probably how you explain the difference in what say Chris Martin brings over Fam with similar physical constraints.  Fam is quite quick when he gets going, just rarely see it.

So, with how football has developed in England, a bit of a dinosaur.  His biggest drawback though is lack of consistency between games, and within them as well. Better than some in the squad admittedly, but if we are realistic about challenging for anything we’ve got to quickly rid ourselves of those who can’t put consistent performances together.

yep, ultimately he doesn’t look like he fits the way we play.  In many respects the other outfield players are having to adapt their games because of him
 

Perhaps though the stand-out memory of his time with us will actually be someone else, Mark Ashton, for forking out the record transfer fee, then letting him go for nothing. Bad business from someone who self-promotes himself as being financially astute and excelling at striking deals.

this just exacerbated the situation.

 

Good post RR.  Comments above ⬆️⬆️⬆️

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1 hour ago, Gmac said:

Perhaps this is a task for @Davefevs has anyone got a break down of the goals he has scored for us. Penalty, header, inside/outside the box, one on one, clear cut chance things like that etc 

Would be much appreciated.

I could do, but it would mean wasting my Wyscout video minutes on something we know he’s pretty decent at....finishing.

Its the other stuff that lets him down imho.

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I don't want him to stay.  We need a striker that plays on the shoulder, has the pace to keep up with Semenyo and O'Dowda breaking on the wings, can find space and can finish 1 on 1s.

I have always rated O'Dowda.  With confidence, I think he has the potential to do a Ollie Watkins type conversion into a central striker.  He's decent in the air, makes intelligent runs, can strike a ball cleanly, but just lack composure through on goal at times.  Controversial I know. 

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11 hours ago, Red Skin said:

I don't want him to stay.  We need a striker that plays on the shoulder, has the pace to keep up with Semenyo and O'Dowda breaking on the wings, can find space and can finish 1 on 1s.

I have always rated O'Dowda.  With confidence, I think he has the potential to do a Ollie Watkins type conversion into a central striker.  He's decent in the air, makes intelligent runs, can strike a ball cleanly, but just lack composure through on goal at times.  Controversial I know. 

From the little I saw of him on video, I genuinely thought that was what we were getting - Kodjia mkII, albeit not as rapid.

Then, when he's here, he's played as some sort of "target man."

To me, he's a fish  out of water being asked to play with his back to goal.

 

 

 

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Suppose Ashton wasn’t wrong when he said they’d get the value from him on the pitch...his value is zero and he’s offering **** all on the pitch! 

The fact the club has offered him the biggest contract in the clubs history (according to Mcgregor) should set alarm bells ringing! 

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6 minutes ago, super slick said:

Suppose Ashton wasn’t wrong when he said they’d get the value from him on the pitch...his value is zero and he’s offering **** all on the pitch! 

The fact the club has offered him the biggest contract in the clubs history (according to Mcgregor) should set alarm bells ringing! 

I pray to god that offer is no longer on the table

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19 hours ago, Red Skin said:

I have always rated O'Dowda.  With confidence, I think he has the potential to do a Ollie Watkins type conversion into a central striker.  He's decent in the air, makes intelligent runs, can strike a ball cleanly

We see thing very differently. I just don’t rate CO’D as a midfielder let alone converting him to a striker. Along with many others he was extremely poor again today. His delivery from dead ball situations is dire as is his general passing game and his inevitable pirouette and backward pass when breaking forward does my head in.  I truly hope whatever injury he experienced today isn’t too serious but we need to move him on rather than include him in our future plans, imo. 
 

I've given up on Famara too. Thanks for the memories, Fam but if we’re ever to challenge at the top of the Championship, we need strikers who threaten the opposition goal and trouble defenders - he does that far too infrequently. 

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