What is the problem with playing at home?

[SedRA]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

It’s all to do with the ability of the players. 
When we first came into this division, we had players like Pack, Reid, Ayling, Smith, Freeman. Players who were happy to receive passes under pressure and have the ability to retain it. Then to have the awareness and technique to be able to pass it to other team mates. 
As we’ve gone along since, we’ve brought in players who are what I call, at best, runners. They can do the grafting, but they don’t have the technique or composure to play possession football. They are not ‘poor’ players, just have different qualities. 
I’m talking about the likes of Weimann, O’Dowda, Wells, Diedhiou, Nagy to name a few. Add Hunt to that as well. 
As said, they are not ‘bad’ players per se, but don’t have the qualities to retain possession very well. They’ll do the odd decent thing and they’ll (mostly) put in a decent shift, but they are not of the required ability to play possession football. 
 

Losing the players I mentioned at the beginning, who were all technically good and tactically aware, severely hindered our chances of keeping the ball in the oppositions half. 
LJ suffered with the recruitment of poor quality players, but (and whatever people say) he was a decent enough coach to get at least something out of them. Holden was a total failure and couldn’t get anything out of them. Pearson is a good coach and will get something out of them. But none of them will be able to get a possession-based team out of them.  Too many players who have little composure on the ball and lack awareness. Good runners, occasional decent performance, but not good enough to keep the ball for long periods. 
 

Today was a prime example of someone like Walsh coming in, who wanted to keep the ball, wanted to get it back, wanted to play it round and through midfield, but his supporting cast were incapable. 
 

 

Massengo, Palmer, Walsh, Jay D, Lansbury, Sessegnon, Martin and IMO Nagy all have the technical abilities to keep possession. I know not all of these have been available at times but I don’t think it’s just down the technical aspect.
 

As Nige stated in his interview this evening there’s a large psychological component and I’d agree on his assessment of the players inability to deal with setbacks. They seem to be deflated very easily, whether that’s conceding, an injury to an important player, not scoring early or being frustrated by a well set up team etc we don’t seem to be able to keep an intensity of aggression and belief in our play that is needed to break teams down. 

[Harry]

10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Shape/formation can make a difference in this respect. Easier to retain and control the ball with a true central 3. 

While it can certainly be misleading, is a pass accuracy of say 80%+ not an indicator of relative comfort in possession? Talking in general. 

3 v 2 gives you a better chance of controlling the midfield, conversely 2 v 3 gives you a lesser chance. The reason I raise the formation point is that I think Nagy better suited to a 3 than a 2.

Pops. I’ve already said that he’s played games in multiple formations with multiple roles and with multiple partners. Nothing to me in any of those roles or shapes screams that he’s a ‘dominant possession based’ player. 

[Harry]

8 hours ago, SedRA said:

Massengo, Palmer, Walsh, Jay D, Lansbury, Sessegnon, Martin and IMO Nagy all have the technical abilities to keep possession. I know not all of these have been available at times but I don’t think it’s just down the technical aspect.
 

As Nige stated in his interview this evening there’s a large psychological component and I’d agree on his assessment of the players inability to deal with setbacks. They seem to be deflated very easily, whether that’s conceding, an injury to an important player, not scoring early or being frustrated by a well set up team etc we don’t seem to be able to keep an intensity of aggression and belief in our play that is needed to break teams down. 

I’d disagree on a few of those names. 
Palmer isn’t a ‘possession-dominant’ player. He’s always looking for something to create rather than trying to retain and probe. 
Not saying that’s a bad thing, we need creativity. But he’s not a player who seeks to keep the ball. 
The 2 full backs, JD and SS, for me are both decent players but again aren’t ‘possession-dominant’. I like them both, don’t get me wrong, but their style isn’t to keep and probe. I’d also say, for JD In particular, his ball retention can be very poor at times. 
 

[MarcusX]

11 hours ago, Robbored said:

From a distance?........

Not sure what you mean?

[Robbored]

41 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Not sure what you mean?

He wasn’t involved in any way in Bristol City to would not have taken much interest in our results ‘from a distance’ 

[MarcusX]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

He wasn’t involved in any way in Bristol City to would not have taken much interest in our results ‘from a distance’ 

I never said he would. I said when he accepted the job he would probably have a look at what we’ve done over the last few years. I’m sure SOMEONE at the club may have told him we’re shit at home and need to sort out home form? I’m sure he would look at our results over the last few seasons and work it out for himself.

at no point have I said while NP was out of work he’d be say analysing our results each week.

[GrahamC]

13 hours ago, Harry said:

Sorry Pops, I have to disagree on Nagy. 
He’s played plenty of games for us now with plenty of different formations and partners and not once have I seen him try to control a game (possession-wise), like we saw Walsh try to do today. 
Don’t get me wrong - I’m not knocking Nagy. He’s actually stepped up at times this year and turned my prior opinion of him around a little, but essentially he’s still very much what I’d class as a ‘runner’ rather than a ‘technician’. 
You need runners, sure, but he lacks the composure, awareness and technique to be in a dominant possession team. 

Not sure Nagy would be part of my plans for next season but can’t agree with this.

Nagy is slightly lightweight but technically he’s very good, his ability to receive & give the ball is as good as any of our midfielders.

I think there are a large number of reasons why we are so poor at home.

We are a counter attacking side that lacks pace & unless Palmer is on form (or Paterson in the first few months) we create little.

Secondly it has clearly become a psychological issue & we have a number of players who are badly out of form.

Finally a side with 16 players out of contract, a huge number of injuries & a manager who is currently definitely only here for a couple more months there is a lot of uncertainty around.

[robin_unreliant]

10 hours ago, SedRA said:

As Nige stated in his interview this evening there’s a large psychological component and I’d agree on his assessment of the players inability to deal with setbacks. They seem to be deflated very easily, whether that’s conceding, an injury to an important player, not scoring early or being frustrated by a well set up team etc we don’t seem to be able to keep an intensity of aggression and belief in our play that is needed to break teams down. 

This is it for me. The fact is the same players can win regularly in 11v11 away from AG. Nige thinks it an attitude problem and I think he may be right. 

[Cowshed]

10 hours ago, SedRA said:

Massengo, Palmer, Walsh, Jay D, Lansbury, Sessegnon, Martin and IMO Nagy all have the technical abilities to keep possession. I know not all of these have been available at times but I don’t think it’s just down the technical aspect.
 

As Nige stated in his interview this evening there’s a large psychological component and I’d agree on his assessment of the players inability to deal with setbacks. They seem to be deflated very easily, whether that’s conceding, an injury to an important player, not scoring early or being frustrated by a well set up team etc we don’t seem to be able to keep an intensity of aggression and belief in our play that is needed to break teams down. 

Technical ability is not skill. Skill is something which can be done on demand. 

What the poster is referring to is different. At this point Bristol City have players that do not lend themselves easily to keeping the ball. The first player there is a runner. Massengo is not a Pack who would receive retain release constantly resetting possession rolling (rotating to minimise touches) it into feet safe side. Massengo frequently hits players with the ball, the ball isn't rolled in, its is frequently not being reset, players have to take multiple touches when receiving. Palmer is looking to break lines frequently and uses multiple surfaces of the foot losing possession when he could take one touch and roll it to feet with his instep, Nagy has elements of Massengo, this leads to passing having to break down, its inevitable. 

However patterns of play if practiced long enough can be internalised, patterns are instantly recognised etc = There is a lot that can be improved psychologically. There are players here with talent who can be improved by coaching. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

I’d disagree on a few of those names. 
Palmer isn’t a ‘possession-dominant’ player. He’s always looking for something to create rather than trying to retain and probe. 
Not saying that’s a bad thing, we need creativity. But he’s not a player who seeks to keep the ball. 
The 2 full backs, JD and SS, for me are both decent players but again aren’t ‘possession-dominant’. I like them both, don’t get me wrong, but their style isn’t to keep and probe. I’d also say, for JD In particular, his ball retention can be very poor at times. 
 

I don’t agree re Dasilva, I think he is very important to us passing.  Players make runs when he is about to receive the ball because they know he’ll control it and get his head up.

 

[Cowshed]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t agree re Dasilva, I think he is very important to us passing.  Players make runs when he is about to receive the ball because they know he’ll control it and get his head up.

 

I would agree with @Harry. He is talking about players taking the ball in tight spaces, lending it to them, receiving it but also resting (I think) in possession. Dasilva at this point does not do this he frequently goes complex and early v retain. In tight spaces he will manipulate the ball v pop it off. He is not looking to keep it simple quick early and retain to pass and probe. 

 

[cidered abroad]

I am beginning to wonder how this inability to win and also entertain at home has been going on. I've come up with some thoughts that will, I'm sure, be shot down by many but here goes.

For the great majority of my time supporting City, we, as did almost every other club in the country, go all out attack from kick-off for a good fifteen/twenty minutes. It was still like this when Danny Wilson was here - go out there and play some very good attacking football. Entertaining even if we did not achieve the win. 

At that time Iwas thinking of retirement and getting a bit bored with the fact that Wilson, for all the money he had spent, seemed incapable of getting us out of Division Three. My wife and I found a house on holiday in Portugal and decided to retire there; we moved away in 2005 and with internet coverage so poor then, i felt that I would find other interests other than football and rugby. We still got British TV using a 1.5 metre satellite dish so I saw MOD and rugby internationals.

The GJ arrived and immediately lost the first half dozen games. Interest in City at it's lowest since I was four or five. Then came the promotion season and interest perked up. Now BBC did Final Score so I got immediate match day news. I came back two or three times for games. Then the day before the Play Off Final, As I was then qualified for over 65 rate, I bought a season ticket on the assumption that if we went up, I would not be able to buy individual match tickets. Wembley came and went. 

The next season, I came back to Bristol for long weekends when I could get two games per visit, and saw 12 home games and even one away. I was stunned at the tactics. Instead of the lifetime of City going flat out for twenty minutes, we kept the ball mostly in our own half, defenders passing sideways and backwards. Midway in second half we'd press forward and either win 1-0 or get caught and lose 0-1. Or 0-0.

I didn't buy a season ticket after that but kept coming home for about six games per season. Bored and unentertained is how I remember it. Still I'm a City fan so keep hoping.

Johnson went and a succession of others  came and went. I suspected that there was a "dressing room" problem as some decent managers were unable to do much to change it. I moved back to Bristol permanently in time for 2013-14 season.

Finally Cotterill came and gave us a magic season where we actually entertained and won at home. Although, significantly I wonder, we lost at home to both PNE and Sheffield United, our nearest rivals.

Since he left the home performances and results, with a few exceptions in the season of Man U and Man City have steadily declined and in the last three seasons we have appeared to be incapable of playing at Ashton Gate as the "home team". We have had very reasonable away records; in fact I suspect that a lot of City fans now expect us to get three points on the road.

The atmosphere at home games is worse than the proverbial "Library" More like a Care Home for Centenarians? Is this because we don't care? NO. Is it because it's all seated? NO. I have been so bored for three years at least that I am beginning to wonder whether I am insane or senile, spending all the time and cash to watch it. 

I believe that as a Club, we have ignored and forgotten the basics of why we have  sporting pastimes. To keep healthy on a personal basis, enjoy doing or watching it and above all to WIN. Nigel Pearson has a deep rooted problem to resolve. Will he stay and sort it or will he just walk away after the last game of the season? I believe he will change things but if he leaves, I will not continue wasting Saturdays and Tuesdays on a lost cause. 

 

[SuperRed]

17 hours ago, Harry said:

It’s all to do with the ability of the players. 
When we first came into this division, we had players like Pack, Reid, Ayling, Smith, Freeman. Players who were happy to receive passes under pressure and have the ability to retain it. Then to have the awareness and technique to be able to pass it to other team mates. 
As we’ve gone along since, we’ve brought in players who are what I call, at best, runners. They can do the grafting, but they don’t have the technique or composure to play possession football. They are not ‘poor’ players, just have different qualities. 
I’m talking about the likes of Weimann, O’Dowda, Wells, Diedhiou, Nagy to name a few. Add Hunt to that as well. 
As said, they are not ‘bad’ players per se, but don’t have the qualities to retain possession very well. They’ll do the odd decent thing and they’ll (mostly) put in a decent shift, but they are not of the required ability to play possession football. 
 

Losing the players I mentioned at the beginning, who were all technically good and tactically aware, severely hindered our chances of keeping the ball in the oppositions half. 
LJ suffered with the recruitment of poor quality players, but (and whatever people say) he was a decent enough coach to get at least something out of them. Holden was a total failure and couldn’t get anything out of them. Pearson is a good coach and will get something out of them. But none of them will be able to get a possession-based team out of them.  Too many players who have little composure on the ball and lack awareness. Good runners, occasional decent performance, but not good enough to keep the ball for long periods. 
 

Today was a prime example of someone like Walsh coming in, who wanted to keep the ball, wanted to get it back, wanted to play it round and through midfield, but his supporting cast were incapable. 
 

 

I couldn’t agree more. I can’t remember one game this season where we have been able to retain the ball whilst in the opposition half, probe for opportunities, and sustain pressure. Against the few good sides in the league we rarely see the ball  and against the rest we see a constant turnover of possession by both teams. Massengo and Walsh showed they have the ability to receive the ball under pressure, use their body and touch to shield it, and then find a team mate, but when you only have two players comfortable to do that you will never keep the ball. How frustrating must it be for Walsh and Massengo know that giving it to the likes of Diedhiou and Hunt under any kind of pressure is effectively giving it to the opposition. 

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I would agree with @Harry. He is talking about players taking the ball in tight spaces, lending it to them, receiving it but also resting (I think) in possession. Dasilva at this point does not do this he frequently goes complex and early v retain. In tight spaces he will manipulate the ball v pop it off. He is not looking to keep it simple quick early and retain to pass and probe. 

 

Okay, I get / see what you mean.

[Hampshire Red]

Has anyone worked out when we ast lost 6 consequtive home games? And as a clue it certainly wasnt under Lee Johnson who, yes had poor runs, but also had great winning runs. This losing run under DH and NP is a worry like we havent had in my lifetime watching City

[robin_unreliant]

11 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Has anyone worked out when we ast lost 6 consequtive home games? And as a clue it certainly wasnt under Lee Johnson who, yes had poor runs, but also had great winning runs. This losing run under DH and NP is a worry like we havent had in my lifetime watching City

I'm sure it was quoted that we had never lost 5 consecutive home league games in our entire history before. So we are creating an unwanted record run here. 

[Kid in the Riot]

We have an inability to get in behind teams and lack pacey players. 

Pearson loves pacey forward players so I expect 1 or 2 to arrive this summer. 

[Wolf Island]

10 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

We have an inability to get in behind teams and lack pacey players. 

Pearson loves pacey forward players so I expect 1 or 2 to arrive this summer. 

Definitely. We’re crying out for a decent centre forward that stretches play. Saw it for a couple of games with Afobe pre-injury and it was transformative. Our forwards have been terrible for several seasons now and make the midfield also look worse than they are as there are so few options to progress play. 

[SecretSam]

20 hours ago, Superjack said:

Just under 40 years for me but yes, you are correct.

Apart from under Jordan and Cotterill.

And hopefully Pearson.

Errr...Cooper, too. Home form 84-on was often astonishing.

Away form...not so much...

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Wolf Island said:

Definitely. We’re crying out for a decent centre forward that stretches play. Saw it for a couple of games with Afobe pre-injury and it was transformative. Our forwards have been terrible for several seasons now and make the midfield also look worse than they are as there are so few options to progress play. 

The beauty of Afobe and Weimann was:

• both could come short and spin in behind.
• both were intelligent to know when one had spun the channel, the other had to get in the box
• both could press from the front
• they loved early passes (from Palmer)

[cidered abroad]

3 hours ago, markcarter said:

 

Correct.  127 years and this is the worst run of home defeats.  And yet the 15 year old who commentates on Robins TV said, in the last few minutes of being embarrassed by the third worst team in the division, “Ashton Gate has the potential to become a real fortress for Bristol City”.  Putting aside that a football stadium being a REAL fortress, rather than a metaphorical one, would be very strange indeed, how out of touch can someone be?  How can you choose the worst form at home EVER to make such a stupid remark?  
 

What is the OPPOSITE of a fortress?

Ashton Gate Ground, now poshly called a Stadium

[1960maaan]

3 hours ago, markcarter said:

And yet the 15 year old who commentates on Robins TV said, in the last few minutes of being embarrassed by the third worst team in the division, “Ashton Gate has the potential to become a real fortress for Bristol City”.

He also said, when they scored the first....

"totally against the run of play, you could see it coming"

So I'm not sure he has all his leads plugged in. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 21/03/2021 at 07:56, Harry said:

Pops. I’ve already said that he’s played games in multiple formations with multiple roles and with multiple partners. Nothing to me in any of those roles or shapes screams that he’s a ‘dominant possession based’ player. 

That's your view Harry- a different view might be below. From 2017 I'll grant you.

https://breakingthelines.com/opinion/hungarian-controller-adam-nagy/

I'm not convinced we've especially played him in a way that sees him produce his best- and am going to try and find all his appearances. Interesting snippet from the article.

Quote

Consequently, everything he does on the pitch rotates around his ability to predict and anticipate what will happen and how the game will unravel. For instance, Nagy moves relentlessly into space to liberate passing options for his teammates. This makes him vital to his team’s ball distribution since, even when he doesn’t receive the ball, he contributes to opening gaps in the opposition’s defensive lines. Immediately after completing a pass, Nagy noticeably moves into space – he does this relentlessly and throughout the whole game. Upon close observation, it is also clear that these off-the-ball movements are not at all casual: they are either aimed at receiving the ball or have the objective of misleading his opponents.

Nagy’s tactical acumen is also demonstrated by the rapidity with which he releases the ball. Even with limited space and under pressure, Nagy is constantly able to find a quick and efficient solution, contributing to the fluidity of his team’s ball-possession. This quality also guarantees a significant non-risk policy, given that Nagy seldom loses the ball. It is particularly impressive to consider the security that the player can provide, despite not possessing outstanding technical and physical means. Unsurprisingly, Nagy has declared that one of his models is Sergio Busquets. Although on a totally different level, the Spaniard does in fact display some very similar characteristics to those mentioned above.

Makes me think he might be better in a more possession based side- clearly Busquets ability wise is a different stratosphere but then Busquets in a 2 or a 2 with Palmer wouldn't be so effective either.

I digress- this was prior by at least two years to him joining us, I don't know if it's talking Internationally or Serie A wise but...his passing stats as it goes are higher with Hungary than us, might that be in part due to a different tactical setup?

@Cowshed @Davefevs

When I say a '3', I don't necessarily include O'Dowda, Paterson, Palmer, Weimann or even at times before him Brunt as that ideal midfield 3.

I've looked at last season and some from this- and can count on one hand we've lined up with a genuine 3 in CM and him as one. Will look again later.

Incidentally, in one of the games as a two at Norwich in January. One site said he attempted 38 passes, completed 34- a game we were very much outclassed in but that suggests reasonable ball retention IMO.

[Harry]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's your view Harry- a different view might be below. From 2017 I'll grant you.

https://breakingthelines.com/opinion/hungarian-controller-adam-nagy/

I'm not convinced we've especially played him in a way that sees him produce his best- and am going to try and find all his appearances. Interesting snippet from the article.

Makes me think he might be better in a more possession based side- clearly Busquets ability wise is a different stratosphere but then Busquets in a 2 or a 2 with Palmer wouldn't be so effective either.

I digress- this was prior by at least two years to him joining us, I don't know if it's talking Internationally or Serie A wise but...his passing stats as it goes are higher with Hungary than us, might that be in part due to a different tactical setup?

@Cowshed @Davefevs

One report from 2017, playing in a slow-paced Serie A isn’t going to convince me Pops. 
I’ve seen 40+ games of his now and don’t see it. 
For reference, take Walsh this week. Immediately you can see he’s capable of ‘pulling strings’, of rotating possession, of receiving under pressure and retaining without taking any panicky touches. Nagy hasn’t shown that for me, in whatever formation or partners. 

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's your view Harry- a different view might be below. From 2017 I'll grant you.

https://breakingthelines.com/opinion/hungarian-controller-adam-nagy/

I'm not convinced we've especially played him in a way that sees him produce his best- and am going to try and find all his appearances. Interesting snippet from the article.

Makes me think he might be better in a more possession based side- clearly Busquets ability wise is a different stratosphere but then Busquets in a 2 or a 2 with Palmer wouldn't be so effective either.

I digress- this was prior by at least two years to him joining us, I don't know if it's talking Internationally or Serie A wise but...his passing stats as it goes are higher with Hungary than us, might that be in part due to a different tactical setup?

@Cowshed @Davefevs

When I say a '3', I don't necessarily include O'Dowda, Paterson, Palmer, Weimann or even at times before him Brunt as that ideal midfield 3.

I've looked at last season and some from this- and can count on one hand we've lined up with a genuine 3 in CM and him as one. Will look again later.

Incidentally, in one of the games as a two at Norwich in January. One site said he attempted 38 passes, completed 34- a game we were very much outclassed in but that suggests reasonable ball retention IMO.

Nagy plays as a sitting pivot for Hungary. So he will make more passes. Takes it off the back three gives it short. 

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Nagy plays as a sitting pivot for Hungary. So he will make more passes. Takes it off the back three gives it short. 

And in the Hungary side he has no expectancy to move beyond the ball, be creative, etc. For those who have watched Morrell for Wales it’s a similar role. Not expected to force the play. I’d say Morrell is a better organiser too at International level.

We don’t play anything like Hungary!!!

Mmmm, recruitment!!!!

What was the plan?  I know. We need a DM to replace Pack. Go through the Database. Filter on DM. Filter on pass completion greater than 85%.  Filter on Speaks English. Check nationality for Work Permit eligibility. 30/40 caps.

Check google and YouTube.

Sorted.

ok, I jest. I don’t think he’s a bad player just unsuitable for a mid to top half Champ side. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 22/03/2021 at 17:47, Harry said:

One report from 2017, playing in a slow-paced Serie A isn’t going to convince me Pops. 
I’ve seen 40+ games of his now and don’t see it. 
For reference, take Walsh this week. Immediately you can see he’s capable of ‘pulling strings’, of rotating possession, of receiving under pressure and retaining without taking any panicky touches. Nagy hasn’t shown that for me, in whatever formation or partners. 

I think he's better suited to a genuine 3 than how we deploy him, Harry.

Nagy seems like a continuity midfielder IMO. What Cowshed says.

On 22/03/2021 at 19:32, Cowshed said:

Nagy plays as a sitting pivot for Hungary. So he will make more passes. Takes it off the back three gives it short. 

Well yeah- sitting pivot. Is continuity midfielder similar? Take it off back 3, give it short. Think not a bad role. Bit of screening and tidying up too.

On 22/03/2021 at 20:17, Davefevs said:

And in the Hungary side he has no expectancy to move beyond the ball, be creative, etc. For those who have watched Morrell for Wales it’s a similar role. Not expected to force the play. I’d say Morrell is a better organiser too at International level.

We don’t play anything like Hungary!!!

Mmmm, recruitment!!!!

What was the plan?  I know. We need a DM to replace Pack. Go through the Database. Filter on DM. Filter on pass completion greater than 85%.  Filter on Speaks English. Check nationality for Work Permit eligibility. 30/40 caps.

Check google and YouTube.

Sorted.

ok, I jest. I don’t think he’s a bad player just unsuitable for a mid to top half Champ side. 

Unsuitable how? Forshawesque, maybe Jensen at Brentfordesque? How would he fit in at some of these sides who have a lot of the ball, and are quite patient- Cowshed said take it off back 3 and give it short...that keeps the ball moving, can move the opposition around a bit- get it, recycle and screen- rinse and repeat.

Still a useful role, especially in a CM 3. He's a DM of sorts, but looks to model himself on Busquets apparently.

Our tactics are suspect, have been for some time. Forgetting Nagy they just feel suspect- of course him and Walsh are different players, the latter feels like he can break the lines but I think a combination of Nagy, Walsh and Williams could be interesting.

Busquets in a central pair or a central pair with the Barcelona equivelant of our 3rd man non CM- Coutinho maybe ie someone who can play central but isn't a natural starter as a CM- would be less effective in that particular shape. Not that Hungary play like Barcelona of old either of course.

Still continue on with 2 or 2 and a non true CM and watch us reach a certain point but not exceed it. Won't work at this level, but I do have a certain bias tactically.

[Cowshed]

9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

Well yeah- sitting pivot. Is continuity midfielder similar? Take it off back 3, give it short. Think not a bad role. Bit of screening and tidying up too.

 

Continuity midfielder .. Don't know. I used the phrase sitting because he when I watched was holding/sitting in a deep lying role. He was attached to a back three and was rarely going beyond the ball and dropping into CB roles but clearly the player distributing the ball. 

Did it adeptly .. A question would be his range. Switching, driving passes, chipping, clipping it neat and tidy short but longer!  

[Davefevs]

16 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think he's better suited to a genuine 3 than how we deploy him, Harry.

Nagy seems like a continuity midfielder IMO. What Cowshed says.

Well yeah- sitting pivot. Is continuity midfielder similar? Take it off back 3, give it short. Think not a bad role. Bit of screening and tidying up too.

Unsuitable how? Forshawesque, maybe Jensen at Brentfordesque? How would he fit in at some of these sides who have a lot of the ball, and are quite patient- Cowshed said take it off back 3 and give it short...that keeps the ball moving, can move the opposition around a bit- get it, recycle and screen- rinse and repeat.

Still a useful role, especially in a CM 3. He's a DM of sorts, but looks to model himself on Busquets apparently.

Our tactics are suspect, have been for some time. Forgetting Nagy they just feel suspect- of course him and Walsh are different players, the latter feels like he can break the lines but I think a combination of Nagy, Walsh and Williams could be interesting.

Busquets in a central pair or a central pair with the Barcelona equivelant of our 3rd man non CM- Coutinho maybe ie someone who can play central but isn't a natural starter as a CM- would be less effective in that particular shape. Not that Hungary play like Barcelona of old either of course.

Still continue on with 2 or 2 and a non true CM and watch us reach a certain point but not exceed it. Won't work at this level, but I do have a certain bias tactically.

I think sides like Brentford want far more than the role you’re suggesting.

What do you mean by a genuine three.  I can guess, but using the old Fulham 3 of MacDonald, Johansen and Cairney (as I know you’ve watched that a lot over the years), do you see him being able to play either MacDonald or Johansen’s role (and I don’t just mean position)?

The sides you mention do have a lot of the ball, but there is purpose with it.

As I said, I don’t think he’s a bad player at all, but nor do I think he’d get in the side at a Brentford, or Norwich.  You need an edge, he hasn’t got it imho.  He’s had good games for us, but not any I really marvel at.

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 20/03/2021 at 23:06, Red Shadow said:

I believe this was before the Dolman Stand was built. Pretty sure we had one of, if not the widest pitch(es) in the league before then. Think we lost 2 yards when that stand was built, 1969?

That may be the case but City were still known to have one of the widest pitches in the league when I started watching a year later.

I remember LJ definitely had the pitch narrowed - presumably to better accommodate the tedious style of football he favoured - it was very noticeable at the start of one season that the action was further away from my seat in the Dolman.

Then you have the absurd and unnecessary introduction of the oversized 'technical area' which also impinges on pitch width.