Welcome To The Jungle Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 I'm in favour of the ref having the ability to reverse decisions. Goalkeeper takes to long over a goal kick, gets reversed to an attacking corner. Throws can be reversed, as can freekicks. People would hurry if they thought they could hand possession back to the opposition so cheaply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 45 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: With regard to kicking the ball away. Many will not know that the there was a directive sent out to referees at the start of last season, basically saying that players kicking the ball away a few yards were not to be booked. A player clearly hoofing the ball away will still get booked though. It was felt that the punishment for the small kicking away of the ball should not be the same as ( say) when a player takes one for the team and fouls someone on the halfway line, which is far more serious, but not enough for a red. So, rightly or wrongly, referees are just following the directive given to them from above. This touches on what I think has become a problem in recent years i.e. the prescriptive nature of laws, or interpretation and application of the laws dictated by the governing body. Look at handball decisions in the penalty area. I think I’m right in saying that if the ball hits an attackers hand/arm, even completely accidentally and the hand/arm is in a completely natural position, but it results in a goal, then it penalised as handball. However if the ball hits a defenders hand/arm in his own penalty area it is not penalised - other than after consideration of the often farcical judgement as to whether the hand/arm was in a natural position! How can the same “offence” be treated differently, dependant on who commits it? Similarly, how often do we hear commentators say “ anywhere else o the pitch that’s a free kick”? If it’s a foul or handball then it is an offence no matter where it was committed, although I think this is more about officials not being prepared to make potentially contentious decisions ( penalties) rather than directives from above. If ‘m interpreting what you are saying correctly, a player kicks the ball away 15 yards, just out of frustration and , according the the referees directive, that would justify a yellow card, whereas a player kicking the ball away only say 5 yards would not justify a card. However, what if the last situation was where an attacking team was on a lightening counter attack with a 3 on 1 advantage, but a defender “took one for the team” conceding a free kick, but by kicking the the ball “only” 5 yards he prevented the attacking team taking advantage of their player overload by taking a quick free kick. The consequence of the 5 yard kick away is far more punitive to the opposition than the first example. VAR has become a mess, but much of that is to do less with the technology, but more by the interference with, and changing interpretation of the laws of the game by footballs authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red DNA Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 7 hours ago, Mad Cyril said: Would love to see a yellow introduced for any player on the offending team who deliberately touches the ball after the whistle has gone. I vaguely remember a few years ago - I think it was a per season friendly against a higher league team, one of their players kicked the ball away prior to us taking a free kick. Roger Milford (I think) was the ref, he called the player over and matched him across to the ball to retrieve it and bring it back to the correct place . Made the player look a right **** and very small. It never happened again during that match. Bit more of that attitude from refs to put a few big egos back in their place would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, downendcity said: This touches on what I think has become a problem in recent years i.e. the prescriptive nature of laws, or interpretation and application of the laws dictated by the governing body. Look at handball decisions in the penalty area. I think I’m right in saying that if the ball hits an attackers hand/arm, even completely accidentally and the hand/arm is in a completely natural position, but it results in a goal, then it penalised as handball. However if the ball hits a defenders hand/arm in his own penalty area it is not penalised - other than after consideration of the often farcical judgement as to whether the hand/arm was in a natural position! How can the same “offence” be treated differently, dependant on who commits it? Similarly, how often do we hear commentators say “ anywhere else o the pitch that’s a free kick”? If it’s a foul or handball then it is an offence no matter where it was committed, although I think this is more about officials not being prepared to make potentially contentious decisions ( penalties) rather than directives from above. If ‘m interpreting what you are saying correctly, a player kicks the ball away 15 yards, just out of frustration and , according the the referees directive, that would justify a yellow card, whereas a player kicking the ball away only say 5 yards would not justify a card. However, what if the last situation was where an attacking team was on a lightening counter attack with a 3 on 1 advantage, but a defender “took one for the team” conceding a free kick, but by kicking the the ball “only” 5 yards he prevented the attacking team taking advantage of their player overload by taking a quick free kick. The consequence of the 5 yard kick away is far more punitive to the opposition than the first example. VAR has become a mess, but much of that is to do less with the technology, but more by the interference with, and changing interpretation of the laws of the game by footballs authorities. The technology highlights the subjective nature of footballs rules. Rules are being altered to make them less subjective e.g. handball. VAR only applies to certain parts of play and not to all of the pitch leading to anywhere else on the pitch .. VAR has effected offsides (linesmen do not flag) leading to teams dropping off thus encouraging negative play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutton Caveman Posted March 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 21 hours ago, Cowshed said: While I may not necessarily disagree with things you highlight football should not be viewed as a product. It not there solely for those who watch it. More people play than watch, or did pre pandemic. At present football is being altered far too fast (an opinion) because its being viewed as entertainment. Wanting a b c does not necessarily improve the game for those who play and coach it. VAR hasn't. The ever changing handball rules do not. Offside has become farcical. The obstruction rule - As long as its in playing distance = Good play. Diving does not mean a foul is not present - The game is nuanced, its not exact, rules are subjective it should not be made perfect because its a product. I think in amateur football the game is for players but in the professional game it must be about the spectators who pay that the gate or pay to watch on TV. As such I think less focus on whether a finger nail is offside is needed and more is needed on preventing player behaviour that creates no benefits and harms to spectacle. I am a big believer in 80 minute game duration with a time keeper calling time on and off. This would eliminate time wasting, fake injuries and injury time substitutions. In my mind there is no doubt that if those activities were eliminated the game would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said: I think in amateur football the game is for players but in the professional game it must be about the spectators who pay that the gate or pay to watch on TV. As such I think less focus on whether a finger nail is offside is needed and more is needed on preventing player behaviour that creates no benefits and harms to spectacle. I am a big believer in 80 minute game duration with a time keeper calling time on and off. This would eliminate time wasting, fake injuries and injury time substitutions. In my mind there is no doubt that if those activities were eliminated the game would be better. A beauty of football is that it had the same rules everywhere. Many of the improvements posters are mentioning are achieved by keeping that way. Its a game, ugly, beautiful but not homogenised. The undermining of the referees authority is driven by the quest to see football as product as entertainment wanting the product to be top quality, referees to be perfect and absolute. VAR has undermined the authority of referees. Referees if supported could further the things you would like to see if their authority was not being constantly undermined by viewing a game as product. Its a game. The FA 's respect campaign could have been a great thing. For the game, its players and spectators. Every weekend referees behaviour and their mistakes is put under the spotlight. They are incompetent, they do not know what they are doing, they need more help but the thing they need to improve the game, that respect is absent. This schism feeds a inevitable cycle referees are not respected and poor behaviour from the top permeates downwards - I coach kids and youths and adults who imitate the behaviours good and frequently bad they see on tv right down to the phrases used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 15 hours ago, Cowshed said: The back pass rule was not implemented due to tv, it was an anomaly where the keeper could pick the ball up then not release it till the referee intervened. Referees already have rules to stop the ball being kicked away - Its a booking. In grass roots leagues kicking the ball away can be ten minutes in the sin bin. Am I right in thinking the rules about subs were changed to stop time wasting? Yes. Premier league clubs the ones with all the TV money of course wanted more subs with all the TV lucre they have, and of course then Managers used multiple subs destroying the momentum of games. I made reference to viewing the game as product. Rules are subjective and TV the quest for entertainment is influencing football to alter its rules. Some of these rules do not improve the technical standard of players. VAR is altering how the game is being played but does not improve those who play it. The offside rule has altered to a point its hard to coach players. The handball rule is a mess and now does not take into consideration the bio mechanics of jumping. Football should evolve slowly and universally not as a product. What happened to the substituted player leaving the pitch at the nearest end or side, that didn't last long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hertsexile Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 I am in favour of a rule similar that used in field hockey if a player stands over a free hit and doesn’t back away the free hit is advanced 10 yards. This rule can also be used if a player hits the ball away. Another rule change that would make life interesting is the introduction of sin bins for yellow card offences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 38 minutes ago, hertsexile said: I am in favour of a rule similar that used in field hockey if a player stands over a free hit and doesn’t back away the free hit is advanced 10 yards. This rule can also be used if a player hits the ball away. Another rule change that would make life interesting is the introduction of sin bins for yellow card offences! We had that in football a few seasons ago but that lasted about as long as the "clamp down" on defenders holding attackers at free kicks and corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Red Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 Another rule on top of kicking the ball away, and yellow for diving, which is now overlooked, is taking the throw in from where the ball went out. It's not unusual to see it taken 5-10yds from where it should have, they usually walk a few paces, the have a run up to eventually throw the ball in!! Also a new time wasting trick by the keeper for a goal kick is to get all his defenders to stand inside the box, think a while who to pass to, then decide it's a bad idea, the shepherd them up field, wait til they are in place and kick it downfield. www.otibclothing.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 On 24/03/2021 at 11:09, Midred said: What happened to the substituted player leaving the pitch at the nearest end or side, that didn't last long! I’ve seen that correctly applied several times in City games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 5 hours ago, Davefevs said: I’ve seen that correctly applied several times in City games this season. I guess it depends on the team and the officials! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 9 hours ago, Real Red said: Another rule on top of kicking the ball away, and yellow for diving, which is now overlooked, is taking the throw in from where the ball went out. It's not unusual to see it taken 5-10yds from where it should have, they usually walk a few paces, the have a run up to eventually throw the ball in!! Also a new time wasting trick by the keeper for a goal kick is to get all his defenders to stand inside the box, think a while who to pass to, then decide it's a bad idea, the shepherd them up field, wait til they are in place and kick it downfield. www.otibclothing.co.uk It amazes me how strict they can be in rugby with where the lineout is but not in football where the throw in. Most linesmen run away and are more bothered about offsides. (And that's another bone of contention!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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