Released List - U23s

[JoeAman08]

Not surprised with any of these. Not being harsh but Opi was never near the standard required. I am glad he got a few appearances and all that as I am sure he worked very hard for them. That said he is about to be 22 and has no standout features. He may make a league career but can’t see him ever being a regular at championship level or even top L1 level. 
 

Also, I think it is right to get Britton signed on for another couple years but if he is that good he needs integrated rest of this season and through pre season. For all the buzz on here and in news articles, I don’t recall him even training with the first team let alone being in contention for a spot in the matchday squad. 

[sglosbcfc]

7 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Harper is behind Pring as well.  It may just be a case of being honest with a player and saying "Look, you are probably 6th choice left-back, what do you want to do?" and having a conversation about it.  Harper might prefer to chance his arm elsewhere.

We have to assume that Tinnion has had a massive say in this and I trust his knowledge on players.  Hope the ones released get picked up quickly as you would think that the likes of Newport, Cheltenham, Forest Green, Bristol Rovers and Swindon have a very close eye on who we are releasing.   I am sure the club will help them find new clubs as well 

Totally unnecessarily cruel, the poor lads are dealing with the disappointment of being released and you suggest they might end up at Bristol Rovers! I am sure they can get fixed up with better clubs than Rovers.

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Last summer it was a combo of Tinnion and the Academy staff with a bit of input from Holden for those around the first team..

I would imagine very similar.  For those who have had more accessibility to NP, e.g. training with first team, I would expect him to have more input to the decision.

 

 

[BTRFTG]

10 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

He's 22 and hasn't scored a league goal above Conference South. Looked good v Watford in a cup and scored a great goal but that looks to be his career highlight.

Careful, careful. Semenyo isn't exactly au fait with the back of the net....

[BTRFTG]

7 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Not being harsh but Opi was never near the standard required.

Funny that because I first saw him against Watford in the cup at their place and he was stand out excellent. So good in fact City did what they do with all our 'ones for the future' and post a decent game banished him out to Solihull or suchlike.

Ever considered our Academy kids fail to progress either because they never were good enough, else City trash their careers by sending them to clubs where they aren't coached but are cheap resource?

The Academy has much to answer for and producing 'ones for the future' ain't part of the equation, hence we sign multiple gambles that rarely work out.

[BTRFTG]

9 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I know someone who played with him for a season when he was on loan who said he was quick, great dribbling ability but not even close to Championship standard final ball.

That description applies to the whole of the first team squad.

[Tomo]

Releasing Harper and Smith is a suprise. I often watch them whilst reporting on the 23's and both of them were as impressive on Tuesday. 

They will both get clubs imo. 

Unfortunately, we are bloated with far too many players on the books, so I think this is the start of our 'trimming' period. 

 

[And Its Smith]

8 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Funny that because I first saw him against Watford in the cup at their place and he was stand out excellent. So good in fact City did what they do with all our 'ones for the future' and post a decent game banished him out to Solihull or suchlike.

Ever considered our Academy kids fail to progress either because they never were good enough, else City trash their careers by sending them to clubs where they aren't coached but are cheap resource?

The Academy has much to answer for and producing 'ones for the future' ain't part of the equation, hence we sign multiple gambles that rarely work out.

A lot of 18 year olds can have amazing games like that but then not do it consistently. And every single academy’s first team player success rate is much lower than 50%. If one player steps up per season that is success 

 

[JoeAman08]

9 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Funny that because I first saw him against Watford in the cup at their place and he was stand out excellent. So good in fact City did what they do with all our 'ones for the future' and post a decent game banished him out to Solihull or suchlike.

Ever considered our Academy kids fail to progress either because they never were good enough, else City trash their careers by sending them to clubs where they aren't coached but are cheap resource?

The Academy has much to answer for and producing 'ones for the future' ain't part of the equation, hence we sign multiple gambles that rarely work out.

That was 3-4 years ago but I do agree about the academy. We think every youngster needs a loan at every level of the football pyramid it seems. I’d like to see them with the first team a bit more.
 

Like I said with Louis Britton. He has all this hype but has he even trained with the first team yet? He hasn’t made a matchday squad. Integrate him in and keep him around and find him minutes. They will need that exposure eventually. There will be doubters no matter what. We saw it with Walsh. Had as good a season in L1 as you can have. When brought up, others would say we don’t know if he can do it at this level. 
 

So yea, think we need to do a better job with the youth. If they have a good loan spell, I think we need to try and integrate them. Especially if its at league level. Jonny Smith was one I thought we never gave a chance to make it. Why? His loans were always productive. Need to do better. We will see soon I think with the likes of Alex Scott and Benarous. I get a loan but they don’t need loans until they are 21-22 years old. 

[Son of Fred]

21 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

That was 3-4 years ago but I do agree about the academy. We think every youngster needs a loan at every level of the football pyramid it seems. I’d like to see them with the first team a bit more.
 

Like I said with Louis Britton. He has all this hype but has he even trained with the first team yet? He hasn’t made a matchday squad. Integrate him in and keep him around and find him minutes. They will need that exposure eventually. There will be doubters no matter what. We saw it with Walsh. Had as good a season in L1 as you can have. When brought up, others would say we don’t know if he can do it at this level. 
 

So yea, think we need to do a better job with the youth. If they have a good loan spell, I think we need to try and integrate them. Especially if its at league level. Jonny Smith was one I thought we never gave a chance to make it. Why? His loans were always productive. Need to do better. We will see soon I think with the likes of Alex Scott and Benarous. I get a loan but they don’t need loans until they are 21-22 years old. 

Absolutely correct..its all too bloody slow - genuine promise??...get them in amongst it MUCH sooner..

Currently the whole thing's so protracted that they must almost forget where they are & why they're here/hoping to achieve.

Good enough??....old enough.

.

 

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

That was 3-4 years ago but I do agree about the academy. We think every youngster needs a loan at every level of the football pyramid it seems. I’d like to see them with the first team a bit more.
 

Like I said with Louis Britton. He has all this hype but has he even trained with the first team yet? He hasn’t made a matchday squad. Integrate him in and keep him around and find him minutes. They will need that exposure eventually. There will be doubters no matter what. We saw it with Walsh. Had as good a season in L1 as you can have. When brought up, others would say we don’t know if he can do it at this level. 
 

So yea, think we need to do a better job with the youth. If they have a good loan spell, I think we need to try and integrate them. Especially if its at league level. Jonny Smith was one I thought we never gave a chance to make it. Why? His loans were always productive. Need to do better. We will see soon I think with the likes of Alex Scott and Benarous. I get a loan but they don’t need loans until they are 21-22 years old. 

I’m really interested to see the make up of our squad next season, and the u23s and blend between the two.

With everyone being on one site there is a better opportunity to integrate.

Very interested to see if the loan model flexes too.

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

That was 3-4 years ago but I do agree about the academy. We think every youngster needs a loan at every level of the football pyramid it seems. I’d like to see them with the first team a bit more.
 

Like I said with Louis Britton. He has all this hype but has he even trained with the first team yet? He hasn’t made a matchday squad. Integrate him in and keep him around and find him minutes. They will need that exposure eventually. There will be doubters no matter what. We saw it with Walsh. Had as good a season in L1 as you can have. When brought up, others would say we don’t know if he can do it at this level. 
 

So yea, think we need to do a better job with the youth. If they have a good loan spell, I think we need to try and integrate them. Especially if its at league level. Jonny Smith was one I thought we never gave a chance to make it. Why? His loans were always productive. Need to do better. We will see soon I think with the likes of Alex Scott and Benarous. I get a loan but they don’t need loans until they are 21-22 years old. 

Is it possible that before deciding whether to keep lads and integrate them straight into the squad or send them out on loan we stick them in training sessions with the first team squad before making a decision or is it incredibly stupid to think we might do that and that the reality is we decide on a whim/coin toss and you are either lucky (Sam Bell) or unlucky (Freddie Hinds)?

[BTRFTG]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

 If one player steps up per season that is success 

 

Under EPPP that absolutely makes no sense. We might as well as use the cost of running the Academy to buy one player each year.

Fact is we're no more successful in developing players, many might argue we're less successful, than when simply running a youth and reserve set-up. Having far fewer bodies at the club means the teams are better integrated, youths often in the reserves, reserves with the first team.

Moreover, EPPP has allowed the elite to harvest ALL the best talent, if only later to restrict them from going further in the game. How are kids who get cut at 21 going to find clubs who'll take a punt on paying-off their associated costs? They'll be list to the professional game which, of course, is what the elite clubs would prefer.

[Taz]

22 hours ago, Swede said:

Really surprised with Freddie Hinds. I really thought he had the makings of a player. I guess he just hasn't developed quickly enough or that there are others with more potential.

 

22 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

He's 22 and hasn't scored a league goal above Conference South. Looked good v Watford in a cup and scored a great goal but that looks to be his career highlight.

Agree about Hinds. There is only so long you can look at a player and keep saying "he has promise and could go somewhere". There comes a time when you have to say enough is enough, you're not good enough for where we are.

Also, and I don't know for sure, but could attitude play a part here? Suddenly went from promising young player, to out on loan and not really doing much. Example of believing the hype too much and thinking that you're better than the level you've been loaned to?

11 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

Careful, careful. Semenyo isn't exactly au fait with the back of the net....

Difference is Semenyo has something about him. He likes to run at defences, is quick, and (he says without checking) has a few assists. His 2 recent goals have come because he just runs at you, and doesn't stop.

With him, he either needs a lot of coaching at where the net is so he becomes a "Bobby Reid", or needs to be played out wide IMO.

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Is it possible that before deciding whether to keep lads and integrate them straight into the squad or send them out on loan we stick them in training sessions with the first team squad before making a decision or is it incredibly stupid to think we might do that and that the reality is we decide on a whim/coin toss and you are either lucky (Sam Bell) or unlucky (Freddie Hinds)?

This season has seen many, many academy lads integrated.  Re Hinds (and who knows what has happened to him over 3 years), he’s had time previously with first team squad to show what he can do.  Hasn’t even got much playing time in u23s!

GKs: Robertson and Wiles-Richards have trained regularly with 1st team GKs and GK coaches.

Outfield: Towler, Bell, both Edwards, Z.Smith, Conway, A.Scott, Nurse, S.Pearson, Pring, Morton (some of whom have had game time too)

Whilst the likes of Pring, Nurse, Morton, Owura Edwards, Britton, Webb etc have all been seen on loan too.

I have no worries that decisions have been made on a whim.

[spudski]

How I see it, the Academy system is harder to work for a Club, the higher up the pyramid you are.

How many players are going to be able to play to Championship level or Prem level...straight from the academy? Hardly any...

The majority rely on development playing Academy football, then being loaned out to other clubs to play competitive men's league football. When you think about it, it's a flawed system. Why develop a player at your club, then have to rely on another club and trust them to play them and look after them during a loan. The system is broke.

You can be as technically gifted as you like, but you need the physicality and competition of men's league football to get to the next level.

You've only got to go and watch the U23s play someone like Mangotsfield or Yate to see how deficient they are in certain areas of the game when playing men.

I know it goes against many traditionalists, but I'd like to see B teams integrated into the non league pyramid. Where for example we played a B team at say the same level as Yate, Mangoes or even Weston or Bath....but they weren't allowed to be promoted.

That way they are coached by the club, under our direction and totally influenced by us, not loan clubs. 

The fact we have to fast track kids playing at a higher age level and have a loan manager just proves the academy system is flawed.

[Numero Uno]

35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

This season has seen many, many academy lads integrated.  Re Hinds (and who knows what has happened to him over 3 years), he’s had time previously with first team squad to show what he can do.  Hasn’t even got much playing time in u23s!

GKs: Robertson and Wiles-Richards have trained regularly with 1st team GKs and GK coaches.

Outfield: Towler, Bell, both Edwards, Z.Smith, Conway, A.Scott, Nurse, S.Pearson, Pring, Morton (some of whom have had game time too)

Whilst the likes of Pring, Nurse, Morton, Owura Edwards, Britton, Webb etc have all been seen on loan too.

I have no worries that decisions have been made on a whim.

Exactly. Young lads develop at different rates. Some are great early doors then drop off a cliff, some need minutes in lower league football to man up and the Lloyd Kelly’s of this world just take to Championship football like a duck to water. I’m not sure some people realise the demands of Championship football on an 18/19 year old kid both mentally and physically. Not only that but even if you have got that you also have to cope tactically in an environment that is not remotely similar to U23’s football and that’s why many of our better lads are sent to League 1/2 first and why many Premiership clubs do the same with even better kids.

[Numero Uno]

24 minutes ago, spudski said:

How I see it, the Academy system is harder to work for a Club, the higher up the pyramid you are.

How many players are going to be able to play to Championship level or Prem level...straight from the academy? Hardly any...

The majority rely on development playing Academy football, then being loaned out to other clubs to play competitive men's league football. When you think about it, it's a flawed system. Why develop a player at your club, then have to rely on another club and trust them to play them and look after them during a loan. The system is broke.

You can be as technically gifted as you like, but you need the physicality and competition of men's league football to get to the next level.

You've only got to go and watch the U23s play someone like Mangotsfield or Yate to see how deficient they are in certain areas of the game when playing men.

I know it goes against many traditionalists, but I'd like to see B teams integrated into the non league pyramid. Where for example we played a B team at say the same level as Yate, Mangoes or even Weston or Bath....but they weren't allowed to be promoted.

That way they are coached by the club, under our direction and totally influenced by us, not loan clubs. 

The fact we have to fast track kids playing at a higher age level and have a loan manager just proves the academy system is flawed.

Interesting points you make. The possible flaw I see in that is there will be some Managers and players at Southern League level who will literally take the view “they will be bright and they’ll move the ball quickly if you allow them to so get in their faces, give them a good kicking early on and stop them playing”. That attitude will be magnified with 3 points at stake. Will that develop the boys compared to sticking them in men’s teams individually and have teammates around them that can look after them a bit?

I know that Sam Bell for example benefitted hugely from being at Yate Town.

[BTRFTG]

2 hours ago, Taz said:

 

Difference is Semenyo has something about him. He likes to run at defences, is quick, and (he says without checking) has a few assists. His 2 recent goals have come because he just runs at you, and doesn't stop.

'Assists' - at City these past few seasons that's akin being described as the best looking bloke in the Burns Unit. Semenyo's final ball / end product, let's cut to the chase - he doesn't have one.

Fair play he's finally found the net with two goals of endeavour, albeit with a shed load of luck, but his scoring record in the Football League is woeful. 'One for the future', save that doesn't  bear thinking about.

[BTRFTG]

2 hours ago, billywedlock said:

I do think the ease of paching makes the Academy questionable, and Brentford decided exactly that. Maybe there should be limitations on squad size of youths too . I often think of Herbie Kane, where did that Liverpool move get him, when he could have done the same with us , or better. Seems to me you far better getting into a Championship side at 21 , you will get the Prem move then. But until there is a better means of protecting your youth players, or maybe, making the compensation far more important so it actually means something. I recall Simon Jordan talking at length about this, and the ease of poaching for peanuts is the downfall of the system he was explaining. Chelsea run their academy as a business unit. It is a cash machine. Look at what we spent buying 3 players who never went near their first team. 

Under EPPP the very reason the likes of Kane started with us is gone. Elite clubs will hoover up his like in droves, in the full knowledge when they do need a player they'll pay for an end finished product from wherever in the world they choose. Domestic kids, unless exceptional, will have no chance, but worse, the cost of clubs picking them up will be so prohibitive they'll be lost to all bar amateur football. It's about restricting access to talent.

Just look at the kids we've picked up from elite clubs over the years who've been non-league or parks within months of being found out.

[spudski]

3 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Interesting points you make. The possible flaw I see in that is there will be some Managers and players at Southern League level who will literally take the view “they will be bright and they’ll move the ball quickly if you allow them to so get in their faces, give them a good kicking early on and stop them playing”. That attitude will be magnified with 3 points at stake. Will that develop the boys compared to sticking them in men’s teams individually and have teammates around them that can look after them a bit?

I know that Sam Bell for example benefitted hugely from being at Yate Town.

Good points...but they will face that in League football at any level. It's the physical side that's missing...also the hunger to win, with a crowd and points at stake. How many times do you hear the coaches saying ' it's not the result that matters, just the performance'. 

Imo, both matter.

We see in the first team, so many individual mistakes, even though there may have been a good 'performance' from the team. 

Instilling an attitude of making sure individual errors don't cost points is a must imo...as well as the performance expected by the coach.

 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Good points...but they will face that in League football at any level. It's the physical side that's missing...also the hunger to win, with a crowd and points at stake. How many times do you hear the coaches saying ' it's not the result that matters, just the performance'. 

Imo, both matter.

We see in the first team, so many individual mistakes, even though there may have been a good 'performance' from the team. 

Instilling an attitude of making sure individual errors don't cost points is a must imo...as well as the performance expected by the coach.

 

Think it is interesting & possibly illustrative that Robbie Cundy, who arrived here at an older age is one of very few who seems to have taken that physicality element in his stride.

Outstanding at Cambridge in a L2 side that was flying & now playing regularly just one level down from us, which is something neither Pring or Morton have managed.

Tinnion compared him to Aden Flint recently, he certainly won’t score as many goals but that should be seen as a real compliment.

[M.D]

25 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Agreed he certainly does have something about him.

Semenyo has shown in some games he can be the best player on the pitch. Well, for us anyway. Villa destroyed us but they really could not cope with Antoine running at them on the break. And other games too Semenyo has been our most dangerous attacking threat, especially when coming off the bench at times he's been unplayable.

Just needs to work on consistency, composure, maybe decision making too. 

The best bits of Semenyo this season shows what he CAN do. The most promising thing is we can see a massive improvement from last season. 

I don't see why he would stop improving now. Every player is different in their development. What they need to improve on, when they will reach their peak.

Many were saying get rid of Bobby Reid at the end of 16/17. I was saying on here how he looked really good and we should stick with him. His technical ability was clearly top top quality and he had the right attitude. 

I'm hoping we still have Semenyo here next season and these prem clubs rumoured to be interested we don't sell to. I think his performances have dipped a bit recently. But imagine what he can become in a few years. Massive potential imo.

Semenyo is definitely a rough diamond that is showing a lot of promise, I have a bit more faith that we can develop him now much more than in previous years.

Three more that I have taken note of is Towler, Pearson and Sam Bell. Maybe because the injury situation has exposed them to a bit of first team football and brought them to our attention but they all look as if they have something about them.

Would like to see Sam Bell in particular given a few more minuets to see what he can do, showed great movement the other match

[Lrrr]

On 31/03/2021 at 12:44, Silvio Dante said:

Harper is the one that sticks out to me. Possibly we’ve gone Soady, Nurse  (and Towler) over him, and with JD back, pathway looks blocked.

Whats noticeable to me now is the quality of the releases. Webb has had a loan at Newport, Hinds (although off a cliff) and Edwards league experience. Harper will pick up a club. We’re now releasing potential league footballers from youth intake and that wasn’t happening five years ago

@Lrrr - you’re most up on this, any thoughts?

Probably a combination of what’s been said on here already, competition for places LB and CM notable for how many players we have with a combination of the talent coming through below perhaps being rated higher? In CM both Benarous and Scott have represented England age groups in the last 12-18 months. We had two first year scholars playing for Wales in that u18’s game so they played an age group up. If we kept on players like smith we don’t think are going to make it are they then just blocking chances for younger players below them? 

[downendcity]

54 minutes ago, M.D said:

Semenyo is definitely a rough diamond that is showing a lot of promise, I have a bit more faith that we can develop him now much more than in previous years.

Three more that I have taken note of is Towler, Pearson and Sam Bell. Maybe because the injury situation has exposed them to a bit of first team football and brought them to our attention but they all look as if they have something about them.

Would like to see Sam Bell in particular given a few more minuets to see what he can do, showed great movement the other match

We would all like to see Sam Bell give a virtuoso performance so perhaps Pearson can get a tune out of him - a symphony in red and white.

Sam won't want to be playing second fiddle for too long otherwise he might look to orchestrate a move away, although that's not how we want our players to conduct themselves.

Hopefully he will know the score.

 

[redysteadygo]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

Good points...but they will face that in League football at any level. It's the physical side that's missing...also the hunger to win, with a crowd and points at stake. How many times do you hear the coaches saying ' it's not the result that matters, just the performance'. 

Imo, both matter.

We see in the first team, so many individual mistakes, even though there may have been a good 'performance' from the team. 

Instilling an attitude of making sure individual errors don't cost points is a must imo...as well as the performance expected by the coach.

 

Well said and the insistence on cutting out mistakes like passes going astray, weighted correctly and where necessary to feet should be a requirement throughout training to instill the match day requirement. 

We witness countless occasions where we have given away possession cheaply and unnecessarily.

[spudski]

2 hours ago, redysteadygo said:

Well said and the insistence on cutting out mistakes like passes going astray, weighted correctly and where necessary to feet should be a requirement throughout training to instill the match day requirement. 

We witness countless occasions where we have given away possession cheaply and unnecessarily.

I would say we've conceded far more goals due to individual mistakes, rather than our general team performance. Either like you say or lack of concentration, lack of understanding or application. 

 

[Bristol Rob]

Further up the pyramid you go, the less like you are to find kids who can make it.

Would some of the released kid have made the grade at a league 1 or 2 club? Quite possibly.

We are (currently), an ambitious Championship club with eyes on the Prem.

Very few kids will hit that standard.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Further up the pyramid you go, the less like you are to find kids who can make it.

Would some of the released kid have made the grade at a league 1 or 2 club? Quite possibly.

We are (currently), an ambitious Championship club with eyes on the Prem.

Very few kids will hit that standard.

 

[Lrrr]

11 hours ago, spudski said:

How I see it, the Academy system is harder to work for a Club, the higher up the pyramid you are.

How many players are going to be able to play to Championship level or Prem level...straight from the academy? Hardly any...

The majority rely on development playing Academy football, then being loaned out to other clubs to play competitive men's league football. When you think about it, it's a flawed system. Why develop a player at your club, then have to rely on another club and trust them to play them and look after them during a loan. The system is broke.

You can be as technically gifted as you like, but you need the physicality and competition of men's league football to get to the next level.

You've only got to go and watch the U23s play someone like Mangotsfield or Yate to see how deficient they are in certain areas of the game when playing men.

I know it goes against many traditionalists, but I'd like to see B teams integrated into the non league pyramid. Where for example we played a B team at say the same level as Yate, Mangoes or even Weston or Bath....but they weren't allowed to be promoted.

That way they are coached by the club, under our direction and totally influenced by us, not loan clubs. 

The fact we have to fast track kids playing at a higher age level and have a loan manager just proves the academy system is flawed.

Not keen on the concept as although you're blocking them entering the football league it could then just result in a bottle neck of academy sides at the top of the national league, or what happens if the entire division became academy sides? Promote National South and North winners straight to the football league? 

My suggestion would be a revamp of u23's football, keep categories as they help with the structuring academies with how much they spend/staff size etc. But I would reconstruct the academy system to reflect that of the actual football pyramid, 4 divisions with promotion and relegation, start with PL 1 division and top of PL 2 division to make up the new top division, bottom of PL2 and best Cat 2 teams for 2nd division etc to construct the 4 tier system. This adds an advantage to the currently established higher category academies.

One of the flaws of academy football is that there are no consequences for finishing bottom of your division and losing games, adding the prospect of promotion and the risk of relegation also helps with the criticism of academy football about it being about playing styles over results. Over time struggling Cat 1 academies could drop down the system and mean they could choose to refocus their attentions on their academy. Better performing Cat 2, 3 and 4 academies such as City this season, Preston, Exeter, Peterborough, Bournemouth etc could rise up the system to reflect their good performances rather than being limited by their category as they are now.

This change would focus on the competitiveness of the divisions and the importance of winning matches. It could lead to more teams retaining players in their u23's teams thus raising the standard of the football played.

Side note, I also think it'd be great if u23's football were given more coverage, whether streamed on things like youtube, ifollow on a regular basis or heck perhaps even a game on sky sports to see what the viewing figures would be like, the cost would be low to put games on as there would be no bidding process with minimal interest in competition. Potentially semi popular to watch as well from general interest, plus academy games are often different times to that of live first team games so channel would be free.