In Conversation with ....... Danny Wilson

[Offside]

1 hour ago, cityboy said:

Have to say that under Wilson, I always went to Ashton Gate expecting us to do well. Even if we were 2-0 down with 20 minutes to go, I was always confident we’d get something out of the game come full time. 

Yes, there was definitely that feeling. That team could be really exciting to watch, especially when Murray was in his prime and Tinman would spread the ball to him and he’d terrorise the full back. 
 

But I also remember games at places like Stockport where the team simply did not seem up for it and were completely out-fought. 

[The Journalist]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Of course -  I obviously I was there  but those matches were nowhere near as exciting and thrilling as under Danny Wilson.

 

Just to repeat my earlier point as you've glossed straight over it...

Only four times all season did we score three or more in a league game in 2003-04, compared to 17 times during the promotion campaign under Steve Cotterill.

That last season under Danny Wilson was anything but entertaining - and the stats support my memory from following us home and away during that period.

[M.D]

49 minutes ago, Offside said:

Yes, there was definitely that feeling. That team could be really exciting to watch, especially when Murray was in his prime and Tinman would spread the ball to him and he’d terrorise the full back. 
 

But I also remember games at places like Stockport where the team simply did not seem up for it and were completely Hungover. 

Changed this for you

[Red white and red]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Of course -  I obviously I was there  but those matches were nowhere near as exciting and thrilling as under Danny Wilson.

 

Deary me. Full on troll mode! 

[Portland Bill]

20 hours ago, headhunter said:

:laugh:, I must improve my interview technique!!

Didn't ask him about the booze culture - some things are best left unsaid.

Tommy D was never the same after he had a bout of glandular fever IIRC; obviously the booze [alleged by some] didn't help but maybe he became frustrated at his inability to perform as he had done previously. On course to be a Gerry Gow type had that not happened?

I’ve just listened to the podcast now, I thought DW’s football was the best I’ve ever watched City play, big statement, but I stick with it. 

You didn’t let him answer when you spoke about Tommy Doc, it was so frustrating, I would have loved to have heard his views.

I would also like to point out that we played Carlisle at the millennium, not at Wembley!.

[RobintheRed Red]

20 hours ago, Robbored said:

It was over 20 years ago. I really can’t remember.

Danny stated was only two subs those days he went for experience thats why lita never featured .

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Of course -  I obviously I was there  but those matches were nowhere near as exciting and thrilling as under Danny Wilson.

 

Exciting and thrilling because we weren’t quite good enough?  So you got closer, tenser matches that stick in the mind more?

For pure footballing aesthetics, Jordan’s team with Gavin, Smith, Taylor and Turner, with Shelton and Rennie behind them.

[RobintheRed Red]

20 hours ago, North London Red said:

We made three substitutions during the final against Brighton. Wilkshire, Murray and Goodfellow all came on in the second half. 

Wouldnt argue but wison said in the podcast only two subs were allowed also was told to cut staff on and off the pitch was down to bare bones six blokes doing ten mens work .

[OutstandingMixer]

4 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Danny stated was only two subs those days he went for experience thats why lita never featured .

DW is using that as an excuse, as we were actually allowed to have 5 substitutes back then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Football_League_Second_Division_play-off_Final

[RobintheRed Red]

1 minute ago, OutstandingMixer said:

DW is using that as an excuse, as we were actually allowed to have 5 substitutes back then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Football_League_Second_Division_play-off_Final

Fair eniough im still seething that lita was bang in form not even on the Bench which was a shock to everyone at cardiff i felt as bad that day as i did after the Hull final as we showed zilch upfront thst day .

[The Journalist]

1 minute ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Fair eniough im still seething that lita was bang in form not even on the Bench which was a shock to everyone at cardiff i felt as bad that day as i did after the Hull final as we showed zilch upfront thst day .

The bang-in-form Leroy Lita who'd scored just once since 7 February?

I don't deny leaving him out of the squad was a touch controversial, but the rewriting of history that's going on by a few here...

[RobintheRed Red]

1 minute ago, The Journalist said:

The bang-in-form Leroy Lita who'd scored just once since 7 February?

I don't deny leaving him out of the squad was a touch controversial, but the rewriting of history that's going on by a few here...

If i remember rightly not a forward on the Bench  only hope we had of scoring would have been a dodgy pen . 

[luke_bristol]

3 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

The bang-in-form Leroy Lita who'd scored just once since 7 February?

I don't deny leaving him out of the squad was a touch controversial, but the rewriting of history that's going on by a few here...

cheers, that's the sort of context that needs putting out there. I was at the PO final that day but it didn't scream of a game that Lita could come on and change, in fact if we'd played 900 minutes that day I doubt we'd have scored.

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Exciting and thrilling because we weren’t quite good enough?  So you got closer, tenser matches that stick in the mind more?

For pure footballing aesthetics, Jordan’s team with Gavin, Smith, Taylor and Turner, with Shelton and Rennie behind them.

I thought the comparison was between SC and DW? 

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, RobintheRed Red said:

If i remember rightly not a forward on the Bench  only hope we had of scoring would have been a dodgy pen . 

Like the one Brighton got.......,.

[The Journalist]

1 minute ago, RobintheRed Red said:

If i remember rightly not a forward on the Bench  only hope we had of scoring would have been a dodgy pen . 

That'd been the case all season.

No team in the top 10 scored fewer goals at home, no team in the top six had scored fewer goals away.

We were a defensive, conservative and, at times, pretty turgid side in 2003-04.

[RobintheRed Red]

1 minute ago, RobintheRed Red said:

If i remember rightly not a forward on the Bench  only hope we had of scoring would have been a dodgy pen .  Oh and probably better than anything we got upfront nowadays 

 

[The Journalist]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

I thought the comparison was between SC and DW? 

And the comparison was Danny Wilson's 2003-04 team scored three or more four times, and Steve Cotterill's 2014-15 team scored three or more 17 times.

[RobintheRed Red]

1 minute ago, The Journalist said:

That'd been the case all season.

No team in the top 10 scored fewer goals at home, no team in the top six had scored fewer goals away.

We were a defensive, conservative and, at times, pretty turgid side in 2003-04.

Bit like the last four seasons then 

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

And the comparison was Danny Wilson's 2003-04 team scored three or more four times, and Steve Cotterill's 2014-15 team scored three or more 17 times.

You know the quote ‘ you have lies, damn lies and statics.

Those stats say nothing worthwhile. 10 years after DW the league was different. Different clubs, different strengths, different weaknesses even different referees. 

 

[The Journalist]

1 minute ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Bit like the last four seasons then 

Certainly the last three, no doubt. But comparative to the league we were playing in at that time, we had a much, much better squad under Danny Wilson than we've had at any time under Lee Johnson.

We should've done to that division what we eventually did under Steve Cotterill.

(All IMO, obviously)

[The Journalist]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

You know the quote ‘ you have lies, damn lies and statics.

 

I do. But I don't think you can deny that statistic is relevant to this discussion (though I'm aware you have a track record of incorrectly denying things, like your identity to Gary Johnson).

As I said earlier, the 2002-03 season was one of my all-time favourites, we had a really fun team at that time, but we were nothing like that the following campaign. Absolutely nothing at all.

[RobintheRed Red]

1 minute ago, The Journalist said:

Certainly the last three, no doubt. But comparative to the league we were playing in at that time, we had a much, much better squad under Danny Wilson than we've had at any time under Lee Johnson.

We should've done to that division what we eventually did under Steve Cotterill.

(All IMO, obviously)

I agree Big steve cotterall fan me apart from a couple of cup games the football was turgid and painfull to watch under johnson .

[Red-Robbo]

On 03/04/2021 at 19:18, Robbored said:

Danny Wilson was asked why Lita wasn’t involved that day - “Lita was one for the future and we felt that experience was most important” 

 

 

Not very far in the future, as he was soon scoring 29 goals in a season and shortly thereafter playing in the PL.

No, Wilson underestimated Lita and it will be a continuing blot on a pretty successful career he had with us. 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

I thought the comparison was between SC and DW? 

It was, but as the master of changing the focus of a topic, I just added in JJ’s side.  As for SC v DW for entertainment?  SC every time.....bombing wingbacks, bombing side centre-backs (certainly on one side), two cup runs, one of which ended in a trophy, 6-0 away win, 8-2 home win, 3-0 v Swindon (with the nation watching), packed ground, sold old pretty much every match.

Tinnion to Murray also a joy.

[headhunter]

For those still seething about Lita not being in the matchday squad against Brighton please read this which I replied to earlier in the thread:

Now, let's look at the line up on the day of the final. Wilson went with a front pairing of Miller and Roberts, seems logical. On the bench were Murray, Goodfellow and Wilkshire. No argument over the inclusion of Wilkshire and Murray so you are left with a Lita or Goodfellow choice. Goodfellow had scored that crucial equaliser against Hartlepool which you could say gave him the edge but there is more to it than that which I'd never looked at until now. Goodfellow had to have that 3rd sub slot - his record that season was 7 starts, 8 sub appearances and 6 goals.

3 substitutes: Murray, Goodfellow and Wilkshire. Can't argue with those three and Lita being odd man out. Miller's inclusion is perhaps open to question as he had lost form but with Peacock injured late on against Hartlepool in the 2nd leg Wilson went for experience. Miller wasn't even on the bench for the two Hartlepool games : 1ST leg  - Burnell, Murray, Wilkshire / 2nd Leg - Murray, Wilkshire, Goodfellow.  Goodfellow got the nod - see his record in previous paragraph.

[blockbrowt1]

On 03/04/2021 at 20:35, bcfc01 said:

Lita wasn't in the squad if I remember correctly.

Yep sorry my bad. Probably said squad, now you mention it. 

[OutstandingMixer]

3 hours ago, headhunter said:

For those still seething about Lita not being in the matchday squad against Brighton please read this which I replied to earlier in the thread:

Now, let's look at the line up on the day of the final. Wilson went with a front pairing of Miller and Roberts, seems logical. On the bench were Murray, Goodfellow and Wilkshire. No argument over the inclusion of Wilkshire and Murray so you are left with a Lita or Goodfellow choice. Goodfellow had scored that crucial equaliser against Hartlepool which you could say gave him the edge but there is more to it than that which I'd never looked at until now. Goodfellow had to have that 3rd sub slot - his record that season was 7 starts, 8 sub appearances and 6 goals.

3 substitutes: Murray, Goodfellow and Wilkshire. Can't argue with those three and Lita being odd man out. Miller's inclusion is perhaps open to question as he had lost form but with Peacock injured late on against Hartlepool in the 2nd leg Wilson went for experience. Miller wasn't even on the bench for the two Hartlepool games : 1ST leg  - Burnell, Murray, Wilkshire / 2nd Leg - Murray, Wilkshire, Goodfellow.  Goodfellow got the nod - see his record in previous paragraph.

Mike Stowell and Joe Burnell were also on the bench too as you were allowed 5 substitutes in 2004.

For me, starting Craig Woodman and not having Leroy Lita on the bench was a big mistake, although not 100% the reason why we lost, as the performance in general was just awful.

 

[Simon bristol]

17 hours ago, Red white and red said:

Why do you do this? We all know the football under Steve Cotterill was absolutely class! Running away with the league, front foot football etc. Cotterill did that in one season. Your precious Wilson failed after 4. Give it up for once. 

You may not agree with him, but if robbo says he feels that the wilson era was his favourite then whats the problem?

for me i can remember being a kid and watching people like walsh, taylor and jacki, the skys were a little bluer and summers a little hotter in those days... but we inevitably still ballsed things up. we are bristol city, thats what we do - ive been going for 35 years, seen a few decent seasons and a handful of very good players, but its mostly been poor players making a great living and not achieving much.

[Bristol Oil Services]

16 hours ago, OutstandingMixer said:

Agree completely with this. We were very inconsistent in the 03/04 season, and as you said, if it wasn’t for that amazing winning run between December-February, we would have struggled to have finished in the top 6.

Yes, so true. And remember 12/13 - if it hadn't been for that (meddling) interminable not winning (much) run from about ... September I think it was, then ....