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Mihai

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14 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Yes easily, O'Driscoll's tenure was god awful

At least O'Driscoll had a plan in place with regards to the players he signed, Flint, Fielding, Pack, Williams, Wagstaff and Emmanuel Thomas, all of whom were an integral part of getting us out of league one. He was always a manager for the long term future of a club not a short term fixer, it's just that we had to put up with the poor football while the seeds were being sowed. 

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1 hour ago, j1974 said:

At least O'Driscoll had a plan in place with regards to the players he signed, Flint, Fielding, Pack, Williams, Wagstaff and Emmanuel Thomas, all of whom were an integral part of getting us out of league one. He was always a manager for the long term future of a club not a short term fixer, it's just that we had to put up with the poor football while the seeds were being sowed. 

Is that why SO'Ds only had one managerial position in the 7+ years since leaving City- at Walsall - and even there was sacked after less than 3 months?

No man management skills whatsoever, bored the hell out of everyone on and off the pitch, and even undermined Flint by saying he wasn't worth the (small) fee City paid.

A disaster for City.

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4 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Is that why SO'Ds only had one managerial position in the 7+ years since leaving City- at Walsall - and even there was sacked after less than 3 months?

No man management skills whatsoever, bored the hell out of everyone on and off the pitch, and even undermined Flint by saying he wasn't worth the (small) fee City paid.

A disaster for City.

SO'D's transfer legacy is strong - Flint, Pack, JET, Fielding, Wagstaff, Williams - all very important players in our double winning squad.

I think he had a horrible job on his hands. Plenty of deadwood to clear out, no money to play with and a host of behind closed doors issues. He was very dour, but he was probably the right man to stabilise us immediately after a relegation. Lots of the ugly work he did contributed to the foundations that led to our promotion. 

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3 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

A disaster for City.

Bit harsh. He did set up the foundations for Cotts. He brought in a lot of good young players, and also got rid of a lot of deadwood.

S'OD and McInnes both did a lot for the club in terms of changing our squad for the better, albeit both provided absolutely dire football. Not dissimilar to what Pearson needs to do now.

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17 hours ago, Mihai said:

Nigel won't stay and He doesn't have to. We need another relegation in League One to reset again the whole squad. Or a few seasons battling for relegation in Championship. 

Why am I saying that ? Simple..we need to change 80% of our team and that will take at least 2 seasons. I would keep only Kalas, Bentley, Palmer and Dasilva. The rest out, for free even. Just to not waste salary on them.

Even Barnsley has better quality in their whole squad. Isn't only about they being on a nice run and nice spirit that helps, they are better. Our suqad value is somewhere in the bottom 6.

I was naive, thinking that if we spent like even 25 mil. £ on ttanafers, that players has to be quality. No, the entire English football is broken when it comes to the transfer fees. A lot of money paid for regular players that will never deserve to cost that money. I can come with a list :

 

- Massengo 7.2 mil ( do you even think that a good player will leave Monaco for that joke of a money ? They just throw him and have even profit cause of our naive board, he will end up being a league one player soon )

- Kalas too expensive again,  I have seen Romanian footballers going out for cheap and being better, even Chiricheș which came to England for the same amount of money. 

- Wells, ( we just paid for a name, not for quality, he barely scores and he is not even a great dribbler or passer, regular championship player, won't make any difference for any team, in fac he never did just got lucky, he belongs to Bradford )

- Famara ( can not shoot good, can not dribble, can not pass, he can't get past defence, and literally zero vision on the pitch. At least if he could score headers but he missed 9 out of 10 by miles. A 500k player at most and he drags the team backwards every singe game, except lucky goals. He has good stamina and intercepts balls but he could play as a defender then, cause we need goals from him )

- Semenyo ( our future for sure, only if we relegate maybe. He does a lot of mistskes and he literally can't score to save his life. Some pace but how is that helping if he runs and then shoot 15 yards away from the goal. We can't compete for anything with him as a main threat )

- Chris Martin ( good for relegation battle but not more )

- Brunt ( mare some money to keep his son into school and we were stupid enough to pay him for nothing, while he has to retire or play in League two )

There ar a lot of players to review but I won't waste your time with it. Some good players came too, like Kodjia and the best I think it was Eliasson but like usual, we lost them cause we are a small team, we can't pay money and we can't attract quality footballers. Eliasson though was a distrage to let him go.

 

Errr...you say Kalas should stay then slag him off. Make up your mind.

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13 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

SO'D's transfer legacy is strong - Flint, Pack, JET, Fielding, Wagstaff, Williams - all very important players in our double winning squad.

I think he had a horrible job on his hands. Plenty of deadwood to clear out, no money to play with and a host of behind closed doors issues. He was very dour, but he was probably the right man to stabilise us immediately after a relegation. Lots of the ugly work he did contributed to the foundations that led to our promotion. 

Well, he didn't did he?

He took over in the January and oversaw relegation with barely a whimper. Infuriatingly, he didn't seem at all bothered about it either.

He then couldn't get a win in the first 11 games in L1, leaving us bottom of the table, and the whole club demoralised by both his dreadful losing football and his gloomy personality.

He'd near emptied AG by the end - I should know, I was one of the few still attending among a sea of unoccupied seats; many STH's had evidently long stopped.

The 'ugly work' may or may not be the case, but it seems to be a phrase dredged up by those determined to give a disastrous manager credit in retrospect.

A soul destroying City manager, just awful.

 

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7 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Well, he didn't did he?

He took over in the January and oversaw relegation with barely a whimper. Infuriatingly, he didn't seem at all bothered about it either.

He then couldn't get a win in the first 11 games in L1, leaving us bottom of the table, and the whole club demoralised by both his dreadful losing football and his gloomy personality.

He'd near emptied AG by the end - I should know, I was one of the few still attending among a sea of unoccupied seats; many STH's had evidently long stopped.

The 'ugly work' may or may not be the case, but it seems to be a phrase dredged up by those determined to give a disastrous manager credit in retrospect.

A soul destroying City manager, just awful.

 

I don't think it's worth nit picking on that, obviously I know when he joined -  my post was talking about the context of us being relegated. He did do an awful lot of dirty work post relegation that helped set us up for success. I didn't enjoy his personality or football - but things had to get worse before they got better. 

As above - his transfer legacy has aged very well. Do you disagree on that?

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6 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Well, he didn't did he?

He took over in the January and oversaw relegation with barely a whimper. Infuriatingly, he didn't seem at all bothered about it either.

He then couldn't get a win in the first 11 games in L1, leaving us bottom of the table, and the whole club demoralised by both his dreadful losing football and his gloomy personality.

He'd near emptied AG by the end - I should know, I was one of the few still attending among a sea of unoccupied seats; many STH's had evidently long stopped.

The 'ugly work' may or may not be the case, but it seems to be a phrase dredged up by those determined to give a disastrous manager credit in retrospect.

A soul destroying City manager, just awful.

 

What you are failing to admit is the  utter mess the club was in when O Drisscoll took over, when the club appointed him they should of realised that he was someone that needed time to rebuild the club as he did with Doncaster and whether you admit it or not he started the ball rolling towards a successful team. My point being the players he signed had a purpose and an identity to where he wanted to club to be heading, the signings of the last 2/3 years have not. 

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11 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't think it's worth nit picking on that, obviously I know when he joined -  my post was talking about the context of us being relegated. He did do an awful lot of dirty work post relegation that helped set us up for success. I didn't enjoy his personality or football - but things had to get worse before they got better. 

As above - his transfer legacy has aged very well. Do you disagree on that?

I'm going by the facts, not seeking to give him credit. Some of his signings came good under a better manager, but would they have done so under him? A bit late anyway if we'd kept him and ended up in div.4. as looked likely.

The facts are O'Driscoll oversaw a relegation where there was little or no fight in the team, and left us without a win after 11 games in the division below.

I'm not looking for redeeming features or to give O'D credit for supposed 'dirty work'  behind the scenes - he was not unique among new City managers in taking over a rabble of a squad which needed a huge amount of dead wood removing but he only took the club downwards and was continuing to do so, seemingly oblivious to the fact he was also required to get results.

He seemed to feel he had no obligation to the current health to the club (or League position) just telling us much work was required behind the scenes and it would be for the best in the end.

His way was the only way, apparently, even if we'd ended up in div.4 which looked inevitable if he hadn't been sacked when he was.

Cotterill came in and showed how things could be done, and should be done.

Btw, why do you feel SO'D has only had 1 managerial job since leaving City and was sacked after less than 3 months?

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2 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I'm going by the facts, not seeking to give him credit. Some of his signings came good under a better manager, but would they have done so under him? A bit late anyway if we'd kept him and ended up in div.4. as looked likely.

The facts are O'Driscoll oversaw a relegation where there was little or no fight in the team, and left us without a win after 11 games in the division below.

I'm not looking for redeeming features or to give O'D credit for supposed 'dirty work'  behind the scenes - he was not unique among new City managers in taking over a rabble of a squad which needed a huge amount of dead wood removing but he only took the club downwards and was continuing to do so, seemingly oblivious to the fact he was also required to get results.

He seemed to feel he had no obligation to the current health to the club (or League position) just telling us much work was required behind the scenes and it would be for the best in the end.

His way was the only way, apparently, even if we'd ended up in div.4 which looked inevitable if he hadn't been sacked when he was.

Cotterill came in and showed how things could be done, and should be done.

I think that's fine but in my opinion quite unfair. I didn't particularly warm to him, he was very uninspiring and charismatic - but I feel it's reasonable to give him some credit for factors myself and others have referenced.

I say this with all due respect - but due to you being quite a belligerent poster I wouldn't really expect you to budge ?. I think SO'D is worthy of some credit and you don't, neither of us is going to change our minds on that so pretty futile carrying on.

2 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Btw, why do you feel SO'D has only had 1 managerial job since leaving City and was sacked after less than 3 months?

No idea - haven't really kept up to date with him

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19 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think that's fine but in my opinion quite unfair. I didn't particularly warm to him, he was very uninspiring and charismatic - but I feel it's reasonable to give him some credit for factors myself and others have referenced.

I say this with all due respect - but due to you being quite a belligerent poster I wouldn't really expect you to budge ?. I think SO'D is worthy of some credit and you don't, neither of us is going to change our minds on that so pretty futile carrying on.

No idea - haven't really kept up to date with him

Belligerent as in 'hostile and aggressive'?

It's not my intention to come over that way - I do feel strongly about the matter though.

I feel I've made my case, so content to agree to disagree and leave it there. ?

 

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19 hours ago, Mihai said:

Nigel won't stay and He doesn't have to. We need another relegation in League One to reset again the whole squad. Or a few seasons battling for relegation in Championship. 

Why am I saying that ? Simple..we need to change 80% of our team and that will take at least 2 seasons. I would keep only Kalas, Bentley, Palmer and Dasilva. The rest out, for free even. Just to not waste salary on them.

Even Barnsley has better quality in their whole squad. Isn't only about they being on a nice run and nice spirit that helps, they are better. Our suqad value is somewhere in the bottom 6.

I was naive, thinking that if we spent like even 25 mil. £ on ttanafers, that players has to be quality. No, the entire English football is broken when it comes to the transfer fees. A lot of money paid for regular players that will never deserve to cost that money. I can come with a list :

 

- Massengo 7.2 mil ( do you even think that a good player will leave Monaco for that joke of a money ? They just throw him and have even profit cause of our naive board, he will end up being a league one player soon )

- Kalas too expensive again,  I have seen Romanian footballers going out for cheap and being better, even Chiricheș which came to England for the same amount of money. 

- Wells, ( we just paid for a name, not for quality, he barely scores and he is not even a great dribbler or passer, regular championship player, won't make any difference for any team, in fac he never did just got lucky, he belongs to Bradford )

- Famara ( can not shoot good, can not dribble, can not pass, he can't get past defence, and literally zero vision on the pitch. At least if he could score headers but he missed 9 out of 10 by miles. A 500k player at most and he drags the team backwards every singe game, except lucky goals. He has good stamina and intercepts balls but he could play as a defender then, cause we need goals from him )

- Semenyo ( our future for sure, only if we relegate maybe. He does a lot of mistskes and he literally can't score to save his life. Some pace but how is that helping if he runs and then shoot 15 yards away from the goal. We can't compete for anything with him as a main threat )

- Chris Martin ( good for relegation battle but not more )

- Brunt ( mare some money to keep his son into school and we were stupid enough to pay him for nothing, while he has to retire or play in League two )

There ar a lot of players to review but I won't waste your time with it. Some good players came too, like Kodjia and the best I think it was Eliasson but like usual, we lost them cause we are a small team, we can't pay money and we can't attract quality footballers. Eliasson though was a distrage to let him go. 

 

 

 

you lost me on the 2nd sentence

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You guys have your opinion. You saw games live on the pitch I saw only on a TV screen. But I kinda know football, I even played for a long time before I decided to stop and focus on my sudies. My familly has a football history, so I don't think that it was bulls** everything that I wrote down.

Clearly I don't want our team to relegate, I hope we can make it work from Championship. But.... Leicester, Southampton the list goes on. That relegations make them stronger than before.

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3 minutes ago, Mihai said:

 

Clearly I don't want our team to relegate, I hope we can make it work from Championship. But.... Leicester, Southampton the list goes on. That relegations make them stronger than before.

By that logic we should be in the top flight after our 14/15 season. 

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