Johnson , Ashton and Lansdown

[daored]

Have a lot to answer for , we have a bloated squad with a lack of options and quality. 

We need a complete overhaul of our playing squad , recruitment policy and our medical team with the consistent reoccurrence of injuries. Afraid to say off the pitch we look every bit a forward thinking club with the ground and training facilities, on it we’re a shambles. Even with Pearson in charge next season could see a relegation battle 

 

 

[dREDful]

Who'd have thought 4 years of a shit manager could do serious damage to a football club?!...

[Tin Soldier]

Finally some on here are waking up to what has been going on at this shambles of a club.

[Lrrr]

So Lee Johnson must have been a genius for finishing top half for the last few seasons he was with us? 

[Pezo]

Well LJ was the head coach so oversaw all coaching activities, MA on the other hand oversaw all footballing activities including coaching, recruitment and medical. MA seems like a good wheeler dealer in terms of extracting profit from players but doesn't seem very good at redeploying that money. 

I don't know about anyone else but I feel it's clear to see where the problem has been. 

[cidercity1987]

It looks like we got rid of the wrong man in Summer 2020 

[Frenchay Red]

2 minutes ago, Pezo said:

Well LJ was the head coach so oversaw all coaching activities, MA on the other hand oversaw all footballing activities including coaching, recruitment and medical. MA seems like a good wheeler dealer in terms of extracting profit from players but doesn't seem very good at redeploying that money. 

I don't know about anyone else but I feel it's clear to see where the problem has been. 

Who couldn't wait to get rid of Cotterill?

Who couldn't wait to appoint LJ?

Who put Ashton in overall control?

Same answer to each question.

That, unfortunately is where the problem is.

But I have no idea what the solution is, as SL has done so much for the club, financially.

 

 

[Pezo]

2 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said:

Who couldn't wait to get rid of Cotterill?

Who couldn't wait to appoint LJ?

Who put Ashton in overall control?

Same answer to each question.

That, unfortunately is where the problem is.

But I have no idea what the solution is, as SL has done so much for the club, financially. 

SL pays his money and gets what he deserves, we probably have a less than 5% chance of being in a better position without him. SL would be a lot richer if it wasn't for Bristol City.

I think he had his reasons for getting rid of Cotterill and if the rumours are correct highly justified. From the interview with him this week it sounds like he had reservations about LJ but was persuaded by him (I think SL said he thought it was a couple jobs too early for him), so I don't think it was a case of couldn't wait to appoint him. Ashton doesn't seem to have a foil, the board are supposed to be that but with JL at the head of that I'm not sure they are savvy enough to keep Ashton contained. 

That being said it looks like it's the people at the top that SL has appointed that are the problem - mainly MA but also JL, I don't think he was expecting JL to go MIA, MA has appointed a lot of people that seem to be mediocre and he seems to be mediocre at interviews.

[Alex_BCFC]

Lee Johnson worked miracles to get us to just outside the play-offs then?

Its pretty clear all the players have given up now so will wait to see how summer plays out but things can change quickly. Barnsley struggled last season yet are having great season this - with Pearson in charge I can see us doing well if he is allowed to bring in his own players and direction. Based on how this season has gone I expect that to be the case.

Hard to care that much about this season to be honest as just wanted a midtable season with not being able to go. Haven't paid for a match for ages now and this is coming from someone who goes to about 35 games a season - just doesn't seem proper sitting at home watching with fake crowd noise or no atmosphere. Roll on August when we get 'normal' life as they said we would - they wouldn't go back on that surely...

[Mr Popodopolous]

Things can change quickly- at both ends.

Nottingham Forest edge of playoffs, now only just getting away from relegation scrap. Think Derby and Sheffield Wednesday were lower midtable now in relegation scrap. Cardiff until they had a bit of a surge under McCarthy went from a playoff side to one in lower midtable.

Otoh, Barnsley- up there, Reading- struggled in 2017/.18 and 2018/19 and were midtableish last season- 6th or thereabouts, even Luton have swapped from strugglers to around midtableish.

[Bristol Rob]

23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Things can change quickly- at both ends.

Nottingham Forest edge of playoffs, now only just getting away from relegation scrap. Think Derby and Sheffield Wednesday were lower midtable now in relegation scrap. Cardiff until they had a bit of a surge under McCarthy went from a playoff side to one in lower midtable.

Otoh, Barnsley- up there, Reading- struggled in 2017/.18 and 2018/19 and were midtableish last season- 6th or thereabouts, even Luton have swapped from strugglers to around midtableish.

It's almost as if we play in a really really competitive division where anyone* can beat anyone else.

And that a reasonable run of good form can transform both the clubs season and the expectations of the supporters.

*Excluding us, at the moment.

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, Lrrr said:

So Lee Johnson must have been a genius for finishing top half for the last few seasons he was with us? 

Depends if building a one dimensional counter attacking squad to finish mid table in the Championship each year and reliant on results away from home is genius?

[MATT BCFC]

It's amazing really how we have managed to spend so much on transfers and wages but are still awful. 

When you consider how much Barnsley have spent and how much better than us they are it really is very embarrassing.

Surely Ashton will be sacked in the summer? 

[Bristol Oil Services]

3 hours ago, Lrrr said:

So Lee Johnson must have been a genius for finishing top half for the last few seasons he was with us? 

His best was 8th and 70 points. Barnsley are 5th on 68 points with six games to play. Pity Pearson didn't get here before the rot set in, we began to drift (from the top), and while we still had a bit of life and the likes of Flint and Korey and other lads that at the very least gave it there all were still here.

The rot and the drift began while LJ was here, it would seem. Between the lot of them - Johnson, Deano, the Lansdowns, Ashton - there has been a chronic lack of experience and any clue or idea as to how to go beyond midtable.

[Bristol Rob]

39 minutes ago, MATT BCFC said:

It's amazing really how we have managed to spend so much on transfers and wages but are still awful. 

When you consider how much Barnsley have spent and how much better than us they are it really is very embarrassing.

Surely Ashton will be sacked in the summer? 

No. The club (key decision maker, Ashton), decided that a manager needed to incorporate countless monied signings in to an already bloated squad, in a hope he could fashion a squad that would be even more competitive.

Perfect storm, innit.

Good players signed, embarrassment of riches, no home for the majority, demotivated squad. 

Is Marley shit? No. Not at all. A good Championship player who we didn't need and signed at a price none of us were comfortable with (even though it wasn't our spend), so immediately people defer to the 'well we spent good money' - HNM, potential - absolutely - ready? Maybe not.

LJ had an impossible job because as soon as it looked like he had a settled squad who could improve together, someone was sold.

(By the way, I think changing LJ was the right thing to do).

[Harry]

I often see the only argument FOR Ashton is the wheeling and dealing and the fees he managed to bring in. 
Is there any evidence whatsoever that any other CEO, or indeed SL himself, could not have extracted those fees (or at least very close to)? Perhaps the players were simply worth that much and we were in a sellers market. 
Ashton gets the kudos for the incoming fees, of course, but that doesn’t mean another person couldn’t have done the same. 

[Loosey Boy]

Ashton is the biggest problem - been robbing a living from us for a number of years

[SuperRed]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

I often see the only argument FOR Ashton is the wheeling and dealing and the fees he managed to bring in. 
Is there any evidence whatsoever that any other CEO, or indeed SL himself, could not have extracted those fees (or at least very close to)? Perhaps the players were simply worth that much and we were in a sellers market. 
Ashton gets the kudos for the incoming fees, of course, but that doesn’t mean another person couldn’t have done the same. 

Exactly, the market is the market and it was easy in that market to get good money for good players (most of which he had no involvement in signing for us). Any competent administrator could have done the same on half the salary. Then they could have left the signing of replacements to someone who can actually spot a player (who we could have paid with the other half of that salary). 

[Lrrr]

8 minutes ago, Harry said:

I often see the only argument FOR Ashton is the wheeling and dealing and the fees he managed to bring in. 
Is there any evidence whatsoever that any other CEO, or indeed SL himself, could not have extracted those fees (or at least very close to)? Perhaps the players were simply worth that much and we were in a sellers market. 
Ashton gets the kudos for the incoming fees, of course, but that doesn’t mean another person couldn’t have done the same. 

One I'd say would be Webster, fairly well reported that initial bids were around the £14m/£15m mark, how many other people would have baulked at that sort of fee for a City player we signed 12 months earlier for £10m less? Reported we turned down a good few bids until it was at the 20 mark. He definitely gets credit there for holding nerve to get a bigger fee.

[ohhhshauntaylor]

3 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

One I'd say would be Webster, fairly well reported that initial bids were around the £14m/£15m mark, how many other people would have baulked at that sort of fee for a City player we signed 12 months earlier for £10m less? Reported we turned down a good few bids until it was at the 20 mark. He definitely gets credit there for holding nerve to get a bigger fee.

Webster was identified by LJ “if you sell Flint, I want Webster”. 
 

LJ comes out of this shower of Sh*t looking ok as things stand IMO. 
 

ashton is firmly to blame for this squads contract status that’s his job. £500k a year and he’s sold off the family silver and replaced it with his vision. 
 

NP won’t stand for his interference- so SL has a decision to make. 

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

Webster was identified by LJ “if you sell Flint, I want Webster”. 
 

LJ comes out of this shower of Sh*t looking ok as things stand IMO. 
 

ashton is firmly to blame for this squads contract status that’s his job. £500k a year and he’s sold off the family silver and replaced it with his vision. 
 

NP won’t stand for his interference- so SL has a decision to make. 

I was addressing a singular point that Harry asked if there was any evidence he got higher fees than others would, imo a lot of other people would have taken £15m for Webster.

[TedsHeadIs Red]

Ashton is very corporate in his style of management, which doesn’t fit well with the running of a football club (at least the playing side of it). He has a tick box mentality and talks like a PowerPoint presentation on legs.

He doesn’t seem to understand the human dynamics of building a high performing sports team or what it takes to lead or coach one. Hence his abysmal recruitment record. It’s grit, desire and leadership we need, not good humans. Thank goodness Steve stepped in to hire Pearson quickly before MA started another 6 weeks of ticking long lists and short lists. Hopefully NP can now be left alone to recruit players and coaches with backbones.

[Simon bristol]

45 minutes ago, Harry said:

I often see the only argument FOR Ashton is the wheeling and dealing and the fees he managed to bring in. 
Is there any evidence whatsoever that any other CEO, or indeed SL himself, could not have extracted those fees (or at least very close to)? Perhaps the players were simply worth that much and we were in a sellers market. 
Ashton gets the kudos for the incoming fees, of course, but that doesn’t mean another person couldn’t have done the same. 

Totally agree with that.

[Fuber]

2 hours ago, MATT BCFC said:

It's amazing really how we have managed to spend so much on transfers and wages but are still awful. 

When you consider how much Barnsley have spent and how much better than us they are it really is very embarrassing.

Surely Ashton will be sacked in the summer? 

Issue is, coaching was completely LJ and the warning signs were already plenty apparent last season. 

With this year's contract situations and Holden appointment, MA has completely ****** up. However it should be noted that my understanding is the the HC had final say on transfers who were scouted by MA's 'team'. 

SL, JL, MA, LJ are the most culpable parties for this shits how at the moment, their joint responsibility for decisions made, appointments, and overall squad balance that we've been left with respectively. 

[Dolman_Stand]

I still think this club was in a very good position at the back end of last season ready for the right man to take us forward. Sadly the wrong decision was made last summer and we seem to now be in free fall but to say the last 4 years have been a shambles is factually incorrect.

[Lrrr]

2 hours ago, Dolman_Stand said:

I still think this club was in a very good position at the back end of last season ready for the right man to take us forward. Sadly the wrong decision was made last summer and we seem to now be in free fall but to say the last 4 years have been a shambles is factually incorrect.

To think going into lockdown last season we were 1 point off the play offs

[robin_unreliant]

29 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

To think going into lockdown last season we were 1 point off the play offs

This is what leaves me slightly bemused and unsure what the truth of our situation really is. 

We may not have been playing great football but for the first half of this season we were around the play offs. 

Yes we have struggled with injuries but generally speaking we have seen an improvement in availability recently. However the results are getting worse. 

So my question is, are these players really as bad as everyone is now saying? If they were motivated and at the top of their game, would we be at around the level to compete for Top 6 again? 

Not long ago it seemed we were close and just needed a bit extra to get over the line. That was with pretty much this squad. So are they really just the shower of sh$te some are now claiming? 

Surely it would be cheaper and quicker if we didn't have a massive clearout. I'm hoping NP gets confirmed, he identifies a few of the ooc players who get an offer and they all start pulling in the same direction again. Maybe with just 3 or 4 new players rather than a massive clearout. 

[italian dave]

13 hours ago, Harry said:

I often see the only argument FOR Ashton is the wheeling and dealing and the fees he managed to bring in. 
Is there any evidence whatsoever that any other CEO, or indeed SL himself, could not have extracted those fees (or at least very close to)? Perhaps the players were simply worth that much and we were in a sellers market. 
Ashton gets the kudos for the incoming fees, of course, but that doesn’t mean another person couldn’t have done the same. 

Impossible to know, of course, whether anyone else could have done it. What you can say, in fairness to him, is that no-one else managed to before him. It’s something we had always been crap at.

His wheeling and dealing hasn’t only been around transfer fees either. Income from sponsorship, ground facilities, hospitality etc etc has all improved massively. Part down to the stadium of course, and again no way of knowing if anyone else would have done better or worse.

Truth, I guess, as with Johnson and SL too, is that they all have their good points and their less good. Ashton’s not the devil incarnate as he’s being painted by some at the moment.

[Bristol Oil Services]

If, as many now assert, that Ashton is the Chief Incompetent, and LJ was in fact, doing rather well in difficult circumstances - and the case to support this grows stronger by the week - then where does that leave Steve? 

If he should've been firing Ashton, where he instead fired LJ - and then appointed poor Deano, and then fired him out too - how ****ing clueless does that now make our beloved majority debt canceller? 

[Numero Uno]

10 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

This is what leaves me slightly bemused and unsure what the truth of our situation really is. 

We may not have been playing great football but for the first half of this season we were around the play offs. 

Yes we have struggled with injuries but generally speaking we have seen an improvement in availability recently. However the results are getting worse. 

So my question is, are these players really as bad as everyone is now saying? If they were motivated and at the top of their game, would we be at around the level to compete for Top 6 again? 

Not long ago it seemed we were close and just needed a bit extra to get over the line. That was with pretty much this squad. So are they really just the shower of sh$te some are now claiming? 

Surely it would be cheaper and quicker if we didn't have a massive clearout. I'm hoping NP gets confirmed, he identifies a few of the ooc players who get an offer and they all start pulling in the same direction again. Maybe with just 3 or 4 new players rather than a massive clearout. 

Go back and have a look how we were winning those games. Some of our wins this season have been the biggest examples of daylight robbery ever seen on a football pitch. That last home win we had against Huddersfield was actually embarrassing to celebrate it was that one sided. In fact, I didn't celebrate it at all, the only time ever that I greeted a Bristol City win with no interest whatsoever. It was that bad. This is the problem - people only look at points and make a simple conclusion without any perspective whatsoever. Regardless of WHEN we got our points performances have been SHIT ALL SEASON LONG FROM START TO FINISH.