Jump to content
IGNORED

Two years ago this week ....


Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, Robbored said:

It’s a consequence of SL ‘sustainability’ strategy or ‘ have your cake and eat it’ if you like.

Developing academy players is a sound policy but then selling them on kinda defeats the object of the strategy of having them becoming first team regulars.

I see the sustainability strategy as flawed and played a part in why LJ wasn’t able to get us to the play offs.

 

 

Other clubs sell assets then use the finances to bolster their squads by following their big picture and its recruitment process and supporting philosophy. 

At Bristol City the flaw was Mr Johnson and Mr Ashton were talking out of their arses. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Pezo said:

I think the challenge as I see it is LJ knew who he wanted and got them - Brownhill, Webster ect a lot of the others seem to have come through our normal recruitment process, it's difficult to figure out which is which and hence to figure out which method was successful. I think we need to at least bring up the idea that LJ wasn't the problem and what we might have done is get rid of the one thing holding everything together when we got rid of LJ (I still think removing him was the right thing to do at the time). If the problem was with everything else then no manager/coach is going to be able to fix that and the problem lies with the CEO to turn things around. 

I don’t buy that LJ wasn’t a big part of the recruitment problem, but if players were being forced on him....why didn’t he just say “no”?  Not having a go at you, just explaining my view.

We have constantly been told the head coach has final say.  If that’s not true, why hasn’t it been outed as BS.

LJ bleated at the end that his best players were sold.  Boo-hoo, everyone else has to also.  Plus, you wouldn’t have to sell to cover costs if you didn’t waste so much on crap in the first place.

I really think LJ’s persuasiveness (quote SL!!) meant he got whatever “clubs in the bag” he wanted.

Only once did I hear him say he wanted a trimmer squad, that was the summer ahead of 19/20 season.  “I’ve been a builder now I want to be a gardener”!!!

A season when he then went on to sign 15 senior players plus Cundy and HNM, spending £24.3m in the process.  Cake and eat it imho (being polite).

How many of these....

694CC99C-D2B8-4D73-ADA5-DFCA29B12323.thumb.jpeg.1511446b217beb22c06a169d63dd7392.jpeg

....do you genuinely think were thrust upon in by MA?

Nagy perhaps?

"His energy and style of play will fit our team seamlessly," added Johnson. "I'm delighted he has chosen us over a number of other possibilities."

perhaps not!

Szmodics?  I’d say he wanted him, until he realised he could have a more shiny object in Kasey Palmer.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Pezo said:

I think the challenge as I see it is LJ knew who he wanted and got them - Brownhill, Webster ect a lot of the others seem to have come through our normal recruitment process, it's difficult to figure out which is which and hence to figure out which method was successful. I think we need to at least bring up the idea that LJ wasn't the problem and what we might have done is get rid of the one thing holding everything together when we got rid of LJ (I still think removing him was the right thing to do at the time). If the problem was with everything else then no manager/coach is going to be able to fix that and the problem lies with the CEO to turn things around. 

Steve Lansdown's appointment of Lee Johnson was the problem. You can't blame Lee, who had none of the experience needed to get a club out of the Championship, a fact he proved time and time again with barely credible losing streaks or dire results in matches that needed to be won...two years ago yesterday the home match against Wigan stands out as an exemplar. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t buy that LJ wasn’t a big part of the recruitment problem, but if players were being forced on him....why didn’t he just say “no”?  Not having a go at you, just explaining my view.

We have constantly been told the head coach has final say.  If that’s not true, why hasn’t it been outed as BS.

LJ bleated at the end that his best players were sold.  Boo-hoo, everyone else has to also.  Plus, you wouldn’t have to sell to cover costs if you didn’t waste so much on crap in the first place.

I really think LJ’s persuasiveness (quote SL!!) meant he got whatever “clubs in the bag” he wanted.

Only once did I hear him say he wanted a trimmer squad, that was the summer ahead of 19/20 season.  “I’ve been a builder now I want to be a gardener”!!!

A season when he then went on to sign 15 senior players plus Cundy and HNM, spending £24.3m in the process.  Cake and eat it imho (being polite).

How many of these....

694CC99C-D2B8-4D73-ADA5-DFCA29B12323.thumb.jpeg.1511446b217beb22c06a169d63dd7392.jpeg

....do you genuinely think were thrust upon in by MA?

Nagy perhaps?

"His energy and style of play will fit our team seamlessly," added Johnson. "I'm delighted he has chosen us over a number of other possibilities."

perhaps not!

Szmodics?  I’d say he wanted him, until he realised he could have a more shiny object in Kasey Palmer.

 

LJs problem was not the selling of our best players, but those that were left behind. 

The strength in depth of our recruitment policy is glaringly weak.

Some of the garbage that arrived under his tenure will have done little to cushion the exit of our best players. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whilst Ashton has to take the blame for allowing the recruitment Carousel Of Crap to happen be in no doubt the players acquired were identified, recommended and approved by WeeLee. He chose the team so why the hell wouldn't he chose the players (else he wouldn't play those he didn't rate) ? And if you struggle with that fact reacquaint yourselves with his press conferences. Every signing came with Boy Wonder singing the praises of what player 'x' could do, what they'd bring to the squad, how they'd help us toward the next level. Thereafter, WeeLee never held back in reminding all of the blistering form 'x' was showing in training, what couldn't he do with the ball, what extraordinarily levels of fitness he displayed.

WeeLee's only problem was that player after player ran out and fans immediately sussed it was Emperor's New Clothes. Some weren't even parks players. Most were players in his own likeness and as we know from GoN, Tomlin et al Nipper Napoleon had a very distorted sense of his own abilities.

We're now paying the price.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Whilst Ashton has to take the blame for allowing the recruitment Carousel Of Crap to happen be in no doubt the players acquired were identified, recommended and approved by WeeLee. He chose the team so why the hell wouldn't he chose the players (else he wouldn't play those he didn't rate) ? And if you struggle with that fact reacquaint yourselves with his press conferences. Every signing came with Boy Wonder singing the praises of what player 'x' could do, what they'd bring to the squad, how they'd help us toward the next level. Thereafter, WeeLee never held back in reminding all of the blistering form 'x' was showing in training, what couldn't he do with the ball, what extraordinarily levels of fitness he displayed.

WeeLee's only problem was that player after player ran out and fans immediately sussed it was Emperor's New Clothes. Some weren't even parks players. Most were players in his own likeness and as we know from GoN, Tomlin et al Nipper Napoleon had a very distorted sense of his own abilities.

We're now paying the price.

 

 

The answer to the bit I’ve bolded is simple. 
 

Lee is a very intelligent chap who was very careful to toe the company line and to make sure he doesn’t burn any bridges. He knew the deal he was taking on and he was happy to protect it. He knows he’s employed in this industry for years to come and will come across people again, he won’t say anything negative about his personal dealings with them. 
Of course, if you think he should have said “I stand here alongside Adam Noggy, sorry, Nagy (that’s your name isn’t it Alex, sorry Adam?). I’ve had no input into this transfer at all and this is the first time I’ve met Andrea, sorry, Adam. I’ve no doubt he’ll suit our style of play, or so I’m told by our recruitment analysts”. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Harry said:

The answer to the bit I’ve bolded is simple. 
 

Lee is a very intelligent chap who was very careful to toe the company line and to make sure he doesn’t burn any bridges. He knew the deal he was taking on and he was happy to protect it. He knows he’s employed in this industry for years to come and will come across people again, he won’t say anything negative about his personal dealings with them. 
Of course, if you think he should have said “I stand here alongside Adam Noggy, sorry, Nagy (that’s your name isn’t it Alex, sorry Adam?). I’ve had no input into this transfer at all and this is the first time I’ve met Andrea, sorry, Adam. I’ve no doubt he’ll suit our style of play, or so I’m told by our recruitment analysts”. 

I would love to know how many times Lee Johnson actually watched Nagy in the flesh for himself. Or Eliasson. Or Szmodics. Or Pereira. Or Rodri. Rodri ? Or any number of them... 

I get the fact any industry can always find ways of doing things differently - striving for improvement is laudable, even necessary. So I dare say stats and analysts have their part to play in recruitment but I find it really difficult to get my head round managers and coaches not watching players for themselves, in the flesh, multiple times, before signing a player.

Old fashioned it may be. Time consuming and costly. But worth every penny in my book. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I would love to know how many times Lee Johnson actually watched Nagy in the flesh for himself. Or Eliasson. Or Szmodics. Or Pereira. Or Rodri. Rodri ? Or any number of them... 

I get the fact any industry can always find ways of doing things differently - striving for improvement is laudable, even necessary. So I dare say stats and analysts have their part to play in recruitment but I find it really difficult to get my head round managers and coaches not watching players for themselves, in the flesh, multiple times, before signing a player.

Old fashioned it may be. Time consuming and costly. But worth every penny in my book. 

On the flip....how many times did he travel to Verona or Cessana?  Didn’t he say 8/9 trips?  Didn’t he take Scotty to Portugal (not necessarily for Pedro - as he was in Italy).  Why not take the same care with all signings.  He appointed Holden to allow him to spend more time in recruitment.  Maybe he didn’t trust Ashton, that’s why, but still wanted to be heavily involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Harry said:

The answer to the bit I’ve bolded is simple. 
 

Lee is a very intelligent chap who was very careful to toe the company line and to make sure he doesn’t burn any bridges. He knew the deal he was taking on and he was happy to protect it. He knows he’s employed in this industry for years to come and will come across people again, he won’t say anything negative about his personal dealings with them. 
Of course, if you think he should have said “I stand here alongside Adam Noggy, sorry, Nagy (that’s your name isn’t it Alex, sorry Adam?). I’ve had no input into this transfer at all and this is the first time I’ve met Andrea, sorry, Adam. I’ve no doubt he’ll suit our style of play, or so I’m told by our recruitment analysts”. 

Said something very similar at the time Nagy was signed, this was all done quickly after we chose to sell Pack after he started the first game of the season v Leeds in the side, there no time for research to be done coming as it did immediately after the close season.

Are we coming to the point yet about all our signings from Italy, so Djuric, Pisano, Nagy, plus Pereira who started his career with one Genoa club (Sampdoria) & then going on loan to the other, apparently all involving the same Italian agent yet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Said something very similar at the time Nagy was signed, this was all done quickly after we chose to sell Pack after he started the first game of the season v Leeds in the side, there no time for research to be done coming as it did immediately after the close season.

Are we coming to the point yet about all our signings from Italy, so Djuric, Pisano, Nagy, plus Pereira who started his career with one Genoa club (Sampdoria) & then going on loan to the other, apparently all involving the same Italian agent yet?

I’m glad you have recognised that GC. I didn’t want to say as I’d be seen as a conspiracy theorist ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

On the flip....how many times did he travel to Verona or Cessana?  Didn’t he say 8/9 trips?  Didn’t he take Scotty to Portugal (not necessarily for Pedro - as he was in Italy).  Why not take the same care with all signings.  He appointed Holden to allow him to spend more time in recruitment.  Maybe he didn’t trust Ashton, that’s why, but still wanted to be heavily involved.

Yes, tbf I suppose he did a bit of old school scouting - I recall the trips to Italy and Portugal but didn't think it was that many times.

But in general, this is now very much not the way we or others do recruitment now. And I just don't get it.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Said something very similar at the time Nagy was signed, this was all done quickly after we chose to sell Pack after he started the first game of the season v Leeds in the side, there no time for research to be done coming as it did immediately after the close season.

Are we coming to the point yet about all our signings from Italy, so Djuric, Pisano, Nagy, plus Pereira who started his career with one Genoa club (Sampdoria) & then going on loan to the other, apparently all involving the same Italian agent yet?

They all appear to have different agents....albeit not saying there’s not someone in the middle brokering the deal(s).

Magnússon too?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Harry said:

The answer to the bit I’ve bolded is simple. 
 

Lee is a very intelligent chap who was very careful to toe the company line and to make sure he doesn’t burn any bridges. He knew the deal he was taking on and he was happy to protect it. He knows he’s employed in this industry for years to come and will come across people again, he won’t say anything negative about his personal dealings with them. 
Of course, if you think he should have said “I stand here alongside Adam Noggy, sorry, Nagy (that’s your name isn’t it Alex, sorry Adam?). I’ve had no input into this transfer at all and this is the first time I’ve met Andrea, sorry, Adam. I’ve no doubt he’ll suit our style of play, or so I’m told by our recruitment analysts”. 

If WeeLee was as intelligent as you suggest he'd appreciate to be lumbered with players he didn't rate would inevitably end in disaster. As was, he lacked the emotional intelligence to manage quality players, hence his 'naughty step' was permanently occupied.

It also doesn't accord with his comments to Senior Reds re Engvald.  With the player not long at the club he was less than candid in letting slip that they'd bought an expensive pup "....WE panicked and made a big mistake..."

It also doesn't accord with his reputation in the game. If HE didn't identify and approve the detritus signed under his tenure he'd be shouting it from the rooftops. He isn't ever coming back and doesn't burn any bridges letting all and sundry know it wasn't HE behind catastrophic signing after catastrophic signing.

Save, as we all know, HE was.

How else would you explain his assertions that players were routinely performing miracles in training yet invariably looked like pub players come matchday? His comments re what they'd worked in in trainng, yet couldn't cross a ball for toffee or identify each other in a line-up were their lives to depend upon it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was a great start, blitzed them and early- quite the reverse from the game up there.

Operating Losses of £30-35m mean sales are a fact of life at our level. Has Recruitment been that bad? Still think a mixed bag but the injuries have done for us, that number of injuries will kill a side.

It's not just the key positions or the number out, but the fact you have to keep changing the combinations. The partnerships fall away and so does the cohesion.

Kalas and Mawson. We'd be much better off with that pair playing regularly, or as part of a 3 with say Baker as 3rd man. Or Vyner, Moore in extremis. 

Williams and Walsh. They've played 2-3 games at most? Not as a pair, individually- each. Have they even played together yet! Can put in one of Nagy, Bakinson or Massengo in differing games.

DaSilva and Paterson on the left, to a lesser extent Hunt and Weimann on the right. 

Could go on, Weimann and Semenyo as wide strikers, Martin or Wells in the middle.

Perm two of Martin, Semenyo, Weimann, Wells with Palmer in a free role and a midfield base.

The more the partnerships play together, the better the chemistry. More effective they might get, but persistent and recurring injuries destroy this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...