Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

IGNORED

Holden vs Nigel vs ???


Recommended Posts

A controversial view on OTIB perhaps, but if common thinking suggests it is the players who are the problem, why did we get rid of Dean, and will Nigel be any better?
 

Certainly Nigel has not been the messiah as yet. Any more or less so than Dean was before him. 
 

From what we have seen, team selection, formation, tactics and results have not been markedly different. Surely we may have expected an uplift?

Is NP really the man? Not sure....

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
  • Confused 1
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The club is full of players who don't want to be here.  It's not about questioning who's in charge at the moment.  Personally Nige is the best man available for a rebuild. 

You try and do a job with players who won't even pick up tools let alone put them down. 

Sadly the likes of Bentley and Semenyo will need to be sold to generate funds for a rebuild. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

NP is not good enough! I mean he took Leicester from League One to the Premier league and built the squad that took them to the title after saving them from relegation the season before. 

He left Leicester the first time after they went behind his back to appoint a new manager. He left Hull (who had been relegated from the Premier league and were in financial difficulty) to go back to Leicester. He had a row with Mel Morris (probably over dodgy finances) so left Derby and could've saved Watford from relegation if they didn't decide to get rid of him. 

Even though the players are the problem (some don't seem interested enough and NP has said this) Dean was never going to get time and was always going to be judged on the results given he doesn't exactly have a record behind him like NP. 

NP is a breath of fresh air for us, someone who isn't going to give us Johnsonism's or tell us "we go again". 

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Br 1st ol said:

A controversial view on OTIB perhaps, but if common thinking suggests it is the players who are the problem, why did we get rid of Dean, and will Nigel be any better?
 

Certainly Nigel has not been the messiah as yet. Any more or less so than Dean was before him. 
 

From what we have seen, team selection, formation, tactics and results have not been markedly different. Surely we may have expected an uplift?

Is NP really the man? Not sure....

Not trying to pick on your post, but I can't really get my head around this view.

If Pearson had already been here for a transfer window (ideally summer) then that would be different.. but he hasn't. He's inherited a squad which isn't his, still with loads of injuries and a lack of balance throughout. 

I appreciate some people may expect a bit of a dead cat bounce (even if statistically it's a myth really) but it's clear the squad is poor, the mentality isn't right and plenty of work is needed. People need a bit of patience.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

So I think the OP is seriously suggesting that there is very little difference between someone who had only previously managed Oldham for 15 games & someone who won The Championship title for Leicester with 102 points, is that it?

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
  • Flames 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Br 1st ol said:

A controversial view on OTIB perhaps, but if common thinking suggests it is the players who are the problem, why did we get rid of Dean, and will Nigel be any better?
Certainly Nigel has not been the messiah as yet. Any more or less so than Dean was before him. 
From what we have seen, team selection, formation, tactics and results have not been markedly different. Surely we may have expected an uplift?Is NP really the man? Not sure....

Holden, inexperienced and in his first job was struggling. Not all his fault by any means, but learning the role, in an injury crisis and during a pandemic, tricky .
The obvious way to go, a firm, strong, experienced Manager. The problems are still there, same players, same injury crisis and same Pandemic and no way to move players in or out. What we have is fresh eyes looking at a squad that will be considerably smaller come July and need rebuilding. We have someone in place who has been there and done it, dealt with bigger better players and bigger egos. He needs time to rebuild, as anyone would do. What we need is for the owner to give him the job long term to remove any doubt in the players minds that he will be here for the long term.
At the moment we have a large percentage of the squad knowing they will need a club come the summer. We have another group wondering if, despite having a year or 2 on their contract, whether they have a future here. Even others wondering if come the summer they would have to try and impress a new manager all over again. The club has let this slide, we need leadership from the top now, firm, clear and quick.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mozo said:

Just look at their CVs

There’s more to life than CVs.  The awkward fact for me is that earlier in the season, when Holden was in charge and the injury crisis was at its peak, we were playing better than we are now and occasionally producing some decent results.  When things started going seriously wrong, the blame was put entirely on Holden and the coaches, and the players were absolved from all responsibility.  Every single mistake a player made was put down to poor coaching.  Now the tables have turned and the players are held entirely responsible for our current abysmal form.  While I certainly don’t absolve the players from blame, I don’t buy the theory that there is an organised player conspiracy and it is concerning that Pearson doesn’t seem able to turn this around, despite his CV.  Ok, it’s been a long and difficult season, but I expected better results once Pearson was in place.  He is meant to be a strong manager, so are we really saying that he is being effectively bullied by the players?  Or perhaps the players are just completely devoid of confidence and self-belief after a long and traumatic season, in which case isn’t it the Manager’s job to fix that?

Don’t get me wrong, I was pleased to see Pearson come in, but I expected better from him in terms of what I’m seeing on the field.

  • Like 5
  • Flames 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

So I think the OP is seriously suggesting that there is very little difference between someone who had only previously managed Oldham for 15 games & someone who won The Championship title for Leicester with 102 points, is that it?

It's just absurd. The fanbase was almost unanimous in calling for a manager with genuine credentials and experience - we have one so now we need to back him.

We'd all like an instant fix, but it doesn't look like it's going to come. Fans need to be patient. As it stands it's incredibly unlikely we're going to get relegated so not much to worry about there. It's a good time for Pearson to get a good grip on his squad and see who's worth persevering with. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Not trying to pick on your post, but I can't really get my head around this view.

If Pearson had already been here for a transfer window (ideally summer) then that would be different.. but he hasn't. He's inherited a squad which isn't his, still with loads of injuries and a lack of balance throughout. 

I appreciate some people may expect a bit of a dead cat bounce (even if statistically it's a myth really) but it's clear the squad is poor, the mentality isn't right and plenty of work is needed. People need a bit of patience.

As long as pearson was backed during said transfer window and not left out to dry like dean

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, frenchred said:

As long as pearson was backed during said transfer window and not left out to dry like dean

I think Holden was backed. Obviously covid had an impact, but he was able to bring in players on decent wages. The way he was left out to dry was by being given a job far too big for him in the first place. Obviously he was going to take it, but it was such an appalling decision.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think Holden was backed. Obviously covid had an impact, but he was able to bring in players on decent wages. The way he was left out to dry was by being given a job far too big for him in the first place. Obviously he was going to take it, but it was such an appalling decision.

If backed means he was able to cherry pick the out of work, past their sell by football pensioners for free then I agree

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Br 1st ol said:

A controversial view on OTIB perhaps, but if common thinking suggests it is the players who are the problem, why did we get rid of Dean, and will Nigel be any better?
 

Certainly Nigel has not been the messiah as yet. Any more or less so than Dean was before him. 
 

From what we have seen, team selection, formation, tactics and results have not been markedly different. Surely we may have expected an uplift?

Is NP really the man? Not sure....

I get the angle you’re coming from.

But I think this could be put into context of:

we are a shower of shit as a squad, Dean has shown his inexperience of dealing with that, we know we need a rebuild, and we need someone more experienced to do that.  Short term results aren’t the be-all and end-all

That’s one angle.  Another is:

we panicked with Holden’s results.  It’s only now we’ve realised the extent of the mis-management of the club by ourselves.  We hold our hands up, and we need NP to sort us out.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Br 1st ol said:

A controversial view on OTIB perhaps, but if common thinking suggests it is the players who are the problem, why did we get rid of Dean, and will Nigel be any better?
 

Certainly Nigel has not been the messiah as yet. Any more or less so than Dean was before him. 
 

From what we have seen, team selection, formation, tactics and results have not been markedly different. Surely we may have expected an uplift?

Is NP really the man? Not sure....

Yeah, who is this Nigel Pearson bloke? The way people are talking you would think he had a decent CV and a track record in this division to fall back on or something.

I WANT IT ALL AND I WANT IT NOW............

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's just absurd. The fanbase was almost unanimous in calling for a manager with genuine credentials and experience - we have one so now we need to back him.

We'd all like an instant fix, but it doesn't look like it's going to come. Fans need to be patient. As it stands it's incredibly unlikely we're going to get relegated so not much to worry about there. It's a good time for Pearson to get a good grip on his squad and see who's worth persevering with. 

It's all about opinions. I find it just as absurd that if a group of players ( largely the same basic group for the majority of this season) can win matches, sometimes convincingly and against some decent opponents then it is clear they are capable of winning more.

Nigel Pearson has come in with an impressive CV although maybe some questions about Watford.....or Derby.

If he is the right man then how is it the case that performances are seemingly getting worse not better and we can no longer win a game against anyone.

How is it possible that this is SOLELY down to everyone except highly experienced tactician and player motivator, Nigel Pearson?

Early days but I'm so underwhelmed at his progress so far. And if Simpson was a statement signing- he's made the wrong statement.

 

  • Like 4
  • Flames 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

We were already declining during LJ's final season, the appointment of Holden rapidly increased this decline and we've now got to stop the rot. The pretty obvious problem with selling your best and most important players every season is that you're left with the average players and reliant on consistently good recruitment. We've failed to replace Webster, Brownhill and Eliasson just to name a few off the top of my head, with the replacements that did manage to come in not making the grade. The vast majority of players at the club are either not good enough or don't care enough to get the team out of the rut it's in, a manager can only do so much. That being said, Holden was obviously way out of his depth, it was evident when he got the job on an interim basis and it was even clearer when he took charge permanently. We now have to quickly make up for lost time.

The summer is the start of the rebuild. All of the on field progress that Lee achieved is gone, for all the glory of the United game and nearly beating Wolves we've moved backwards for the last 2 years. Whoever manages city has to be able to build a new squad that can compete for the top 6 and actually look like they belong there. I would much rather have Pearson at the helm for this than Holden.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It's all about opinions. I find it just as absurd that if a group of players ( largely the same basic group for the majority of this season) can win matches, sometimes convincingly and against some decent opponents then it is clear they are capable of winning more.

Nigel Pearson has come in with an impressive CV although maybe some questions about Watford.....or Derby.

If he is the right man then how is it the case that performances are seemingly getting worse not better and we can no longer win a game against anyone.

How is it possible that this is SOLELY down to everyone except highly experienced tactician and player motivator, Nigel Pearson?

Early days but I'm so underwhelmed at his progress so far. And if Simpson was a statement signing- he's made the wrong statement.

 

I assume you're referring to last season with the "sometimes convincingly" comment? City haven't controlled a game from minute 1 to minute 90+ all season and genuinely good team performances have been almost non existent.

Simpson is a signing I was, and still am, 100% against, but I don't see how signing a 34 year old free agent can be considered a statement signing? The guy's (hopefully) a stop gap and nothing more.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BetterRedthenBlue said:

NP is not good enough! I mean he took Leicester from League One to the Premier league and built the squad that took them to the title after saving them from relegation the season before. 

He left Leicester the first time after they went behind his back to appoint a new manager. He left Hull (who had been relegated from the Premier league and were in financial difficulty) to go back to Leicester. He had a row with Mel Morris (probably over dodgy finances) so left Derby and could've saved Watford from relegation if they didn't decide to get rid of him. 

Even though the players are the problem (some don't seem interested enough and NP has said this) Dean was never going to get time and was always going to be judged on the results given he doesn't exactly have a record behind him like NP. 

NP is a breath of fresh air for us, someone who isn't going to give us Johnsonism's or tell us "we go again". 

The only slight worry I have is that those successes you quoted, the last one (Leicester) ended in 2015 and he hasn't had any success since, apart from briefly reviving Watford before getting sacked after a poor run of results. Sometimes football managers can have success but it doesn't always last, there are any number of managers who have had success but then can't repeat it and drift out of the game. Not saying Nige is one of those but it's valid to query the job he's doing rather than assume he's going to repeat the unarguable successes he had several years ago.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It's all about opinions. I find it just as absurd that if a group of players ( largely the same basic group for the majority of this season) can win matches, sometimes convincingly and against some decent opponents then it is clear they are capable of winning more.

Nigel Pearson has come in with an impressive CV although maybe some questions about Watford.....or Derby.

If he is the right man then how is it the case that performances are seemingly getting worse not better and we can no longer win a game against anyone.

How is it possible that this is SOLELY down to everyone except highly experienced tactician and player motivator, Nigel Pearson?

Early days but I'm so underwhelmed at his progress so far. And if Simpson was a statement signing- he's made the wrong statement.

 

But that's just football right - as you mentioned Watford how were they first team to beat Liverpool last year (and 3 - 0 after 18 consecutive wins or something ridiculous), but then ended up getting relegated in 19th? Surely those players were capable of beating Liverpool?

For me it's about regression to the mean as a team. You have highs and lows but over a season usually you'll end up somewhere in the middle. I saw a few highs (comparatively) from our players early in the season, some lows in the middle, and now we're poor and bumbling along lower mid table which is probably about where we are as a squad in my opinion. I think my prediction in the thread at the start of the year was 17th.

I think Pearson is slightly stuck in the middle of wanting to make changes to how we play, but also can't rip up the coaching the players have had over this last year on day one as that risks even more chaos...  as well as probably not having the personnel who can implement how he wants to play anyway.

On Simpson, I think they worked together in the past. For me it's an "I need some eyes I trust in that dressing room as something is seriously wrong" as much as a signing for the pitch.

 

Edited by IAmNick
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It's all about opinions. I find it just as absurd that if a group of players ( largely the same basic group for the majority of this season) can win matches, sometimes convincingly and against some decent opponents then it is clear they are capable of winning more.

Nigel Pearson has come in with an impressive CV although maybe some questions about Watford.....or Derby.

If he is the right man then how is it the case that performances are seemingly getting worse not better and we can no longer win a game against anyone.

How is it possible that this is SOLELY down to everyone except highly experienced tactician and player motivator, Nigel Pearson?

Early days but I'm so underwhelmed at his progress so far. And if Simpson was a statement signing- he's made the wrong statement.

 

The group of players have been second best in almost every single game this season, even the vast majority of the ones we have won. How many games have we actually won convincingly where the scoreline reflects the difference in performance between the two teams? Contrast that with the number of games where the "shithouse reds" have literally mugged a result from the opposition. At least 10 of our 15 wins this season have been daylight robbery on balance of play. Doesn't that say anything to people? It does to me, it says we are either the second poorest or even poorest team in this league in terms of performances (not results) - I think the stats show that to be indisputable. We are crap and we have massively over achieved this season in terms of points gained, no two ways about it. If points reflect performances throughout the season we will be lucky to get 2 more points this season and will be reliant on Rotherham having too many games to play. It would not shock me at all if we finished 4th bottom and, for me, that would be over achievement based on PERFORMANCES over the season.

Performances got significantly worse (from a very low level in the first place) and have maintained that level from the moment (as others have already stated) that Mark Ashton went and told Twentystone there would be no contracts handed out except possibly the massive, record busting offer made to Dave (who ultimately has given us the middle finger). Again, haven't you noticed that motivation and performances that weren't exactly great to start with have dropped off a cliff since then? Have you honestly missed that?

Whoever takes over our mess of a club whether it is Pearson, Wilder, Lowe, Appleton, Flynn even Dog Botherer if you like, you name them yourself, will all look at this squad and think "I've really got to get most of this lot out". 100%, no argument, that is what they will think when they look at our performances this season. It is your prerogative to expect instant results with sub-standard, demotivated players but I can guarantee you are going to be disappointed for a long while to come WHOEVER IS MANAGING THIS SHOWER OF STEAMING SHIT.

I want it all and I want it now....................

  • Like 7
  • Flames 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Nige will have worked with the back room staff for a few months. He’ll know by then, and probably already knows if he’s happy to keep them. 

I suspect this will form the crux of whether He’ll want to stay. If he stays he’ll probably want to bring in his own staff who know his way and his methods. This will be expensive you’d have thought. 

I don’t think NP’s success at his previous roles will have been just down to NP and I suspect he’d be the first to tell you that. It’ll be down to his whole team. 

So if Lansdown really wants go give Nige the best possible chance, it’s going to take some serious investment... and that’s even before we’ve looked at the playing staff!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Only at Bristol City could a manager of Pearson's calibre come in and come under fire from some supporters. We've got a stadium, training ground and manager fit for the PL, the rest I'm afraid to say is L1 standard. 

Is Pearson to blame for signing these players? No. Most of them have been poor, over-the-hill signings with little hunger or resale value. The buck for that stops with Ashton, who has made the playing side of the club a car crash after selling off the family china. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

Nige will have worked with the back room staff for a few months. He’ll know by then, and probably already knows if he’s happy to keep them. 

I suspect this will form the crux of whether He’ll want to stay. If he stays he’ll probably want to bring in his own staff who know his way and his methods. This will be expensive you’d have thought. 

I don’t think NP’s success at his previous roles will have been just down to NP and I suspect he’d be the first to tell you that. It’ll be down to his whole team. 

So if Lansdown really wants go give Nige the best possible chance, it’s going to take some serious investment... and that’s even before we’ve looked at the playing staff!

..............and what you correctly state is what could kill the whole thing. The issue many people have if we get the likes of Appleton in instead, is not that he won't realise that the squad is sub-standard and needs a major overhaul, you would require BCFC Owner/Board Member levels of "football blindness" to think that it doesn't, but what players will the likes of Appleton attract that will make things significantly better in the medium to longer term?

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, tin said:

Only at Bristol City could a manager of Pearson's calibre come in and come under fire from some supporters. We've got a stadium, training ground and manager fit for the PL, the rest I'm afraid to say is L1 standard. 

Is Pearson to blame for signing these players? No. Most of them have been poor, over-the-hill signings with little hunger or resale value. The buck for that stops with Ashton, who has made the playing side of the club a car crash after selling off the family china. 

You are talking about supporters who would be over the moon if Joe Jordan was reappointed.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It's all about opinions. I find it just as absurd that if a group of players ( largely the same basic group for the majority of this season) can win matches, sometimes convincingly and against some decent opponents then it is clear they are capable of winning more.

Nigel Pearson has come in with an impressive CV although maybe some questions about Watford.....or Derby.

If he is the right man then how is it the case that performances are seemingly getting worse not better and we can no longer win a game against anyone.

How is it possible that this is SOLELY down to everyone except highly experienced tactician and player motivator, Nigel Pearson?

Early days but I'm so underwhelmed at his progress so far. And if Simpson was a statement signing- he's made the wrong statement.

 

We had a similar situation when GJ took over, when he rattled a few cages and we had that run of nine defeats, while he was asserting some authority.

Nigel Pearson also has the added problem of a injury depleated squad and an unprecedented number of ooc players who are clearly demonstrating they couldn’t give a shit about which division this club is playing its football in next season.  How do you motivate players who really don’t care and seemingly have no professional pride??

Rather than questioning NP’s ability to manage, imho our current situation just brings into sharp focus how deep our problems run.  I think we’ve papered over the cracks for far too long and if SL doesn’t grasp the nettle and address it now, I fear we could see this club continue to go backwards at an increasingly alarming rate.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BrizzleRed said:

We had a similar situation when GJ took over, when he rattled a few cages and we had that run of nine defeats, while he was asserting some authority.

Nigel Pearson also has the added problem of a injury depleated squad and an unprecedented number of ooc players who are clearly demonstrating they couldn’t give a shit about which division this club is playing its football in next season.  How do you motivate players who really don’t care and seemingly have no professional pride??

Rather than questioning NP’s ability to manage, imho our current situation just brings into sharp focus how deep our problems run.  I think we’ve papered over the cracks for far too long and if SL doesn’t grasp the nettle and address it now, I fear we could see this club continue to go backwards at an increasingly alarming rate.

I don't think I've known the fanbase so aligned tbh. You will always get some differing opinion but the vast majority are in sync over what action is required. Never known this level of agreement tbh!! However, it is one man's club and what he thinks is the only thing that will matter ultimately.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

We had a similar situation when GJ took over, when he rattled a few cages and we had that run of nine defeats, while he was asserting some authority.

Nigel Pearson also has the added problem of a injury depleated squad and an unprecedented number of ooc players who are clearly demonstrating they couldn’t give a shit about which division this club is playing its football in next season.  How do you motivate players who really don’t care and seemingly have no professional pride??

Rather than questioning NP’s ability to manage, imho our current situation just brings into sharp focus how deep our problems run.  I think we’ve papered over the cracks for far too long and if SL doesn’t grasp the nettle and address it now, I fear we could see this club continue to go backwards at an increasingly alarming rate.

There were people wanting rid of GJ then too. Indeed, there's a thread to that effect in the Classics section on here, started during that run by a former poster who is now active on Twitter, Radio Bristol and podcasts and very much likes to portray himself as the smartest man in the room. Needless to say, he wasn't amused at it being bumped when GJ got us to the Championship playoffs.

Edited by Northern Red
  • Like 4
  • Haha 2
  • Flames 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...