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Holden vs Nigel vs ???


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Just now, Moments of Pleasure said:

The literature is clear. Such a person's opinion on Dariusz "Jacki" Dziekanowski is not to be trusted.

Or indeed much else.

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1 minute ago, ciderwithtommy said:

If you take all emotion out of this, and look at the facts as they are. We have a huge amount of “first team” players out of contract at the end of the year, and we know what that means regarding commitment to our cause.

 We have a manager out of contract at the end of the season, with nothing concrete about his position long term.

We have a CEO being linked to another club.

We have a chairman out in Bermuda building houses.

We have an owner openly admitting he is open to funding and maybe a way out. 
 

if anyone genuinely believes there is a coach/manager that could come in and get a tune out of us I’ll have some of what they are smoking. 
 

this is a real mess, we need leaders, an identity, pretty much a new player in every position (Barring GK). The fact is whoever we appoint, there chances of failure are huge. My view is give it to Pearson today, it ticks one of the above boxes. He can then start to build today for next season, time is the commodity that will kill us. 

Bravo 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

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1 minute ago, ciderwithtommy said:

 

 We have a manager out of contract at the end of the season, with nothing concrete about his position long term.

We have a CEO being linked to another club.

We have a chairman out in Bermuda building houses.

We have an owner openly admitting he is open to funding and maybe a way out. 

Yes! and so we have drift. Aimless, neglectful drift.

Is it any wonder the players are performing like they are with all this muddle? It just amazes me that people on here cannot work this out.

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1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

We had a similar situation when GJ took over, when he rattled a few cages and we had that run of nine defeats, while he was asserting some authority.

Nigel Pearson also has the added problem of a injury depleated squad and an unprecedented number of ooc players who are clearly demonstrating they couldn’t give a shit about which division this club is playing its football in next season.  How do you motivate players who really don’t care and seemingly have no professional pride??

Rather than questioning NP’s ability to manage, imho our current situation just brings into sharp focus how deep our problems run.  I think we’ve papered over the cracks for far too long and if SL doesn’t grasp the nettle and address it now, I fear we could see this club continue to go backwards at an increasingly alarming rate.

Correct. Seem to remember a certain conversation being banded about at the time when a player allegedly said something along the lines of 'I've played in the Premier League and all you have done is manage Latvia you fat ****'. Shortly after the said player was offloaded. There was certainly something well off when GJ was initially appointed and he wanted players who were committed and hungry for success and I remember that he put quotes up on the wall to the amusement and ridicule of some at the time. He shook it up and we very nearly reached the Premier League. 

NP is right when he says that games aren't just won on the pitch, but in the minds as a collective and he has called out the fact that this current team is one full of individuals with their own 'issues' and it needs to be changed in order to move this club forward.

The club have got themselves into this mess by selling first and then trying to fill the gaps afterwards, or at least it appears that way. In order to stay on the gravy train they need to be planning for anyone to leave and have a number of potential replacements lined up. They also need to absolutely as a minimum ensure that the 'spine' of the team remains in place. This season it is clearly evident that the engine room in midfield is lacking in the quality required to take charge of the game and this is why we have been second best in a lot of games this season. When our midfield are giving their best we have a chance, but all too often one or more aren't committed enough and the writing is on the wall in terms of the result.

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32 minutes ago, EmersonsKev said:

Let's quote SL, the financals for this season when it comes to sign them off will be "horrific". 

 

Financial prudence will mean like any other seasons "trading" will take place with the sale of a number of players that have value. 

SL also stated that funds would be available to reshape the squad and, in FFP terms, we are in quite a good place.

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33 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

 

 

Answered choices here.  The rest of your post is full of some odd leading questions, that there's no point in answering as it will just lead to more infueuration that I'm clearly not on the page as your self. 

Hopefully that helps :)

You really think doing something groundbreaking like appointing a female manager in the context of our form is a good idea? It's an incredibly brave suggestion !

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12 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

If you take all emotion out of this, and look at the facts as they are. We have a huge amount of “first team” players out of contract at the end of the year, and we know what that means regarding commitment to our cause.

 We have a manager out of contract at the end of the season, with nothing concrete about his position long term.

We have a CEO being linked to another club.

We have a chairman out in Bermuda building houses.

We have an owner openly admitting he is open to funding and maybe a way out. 
 

if anyone genuinely believes there is a coach/manager that could come in and get a tune out of us I’ll have some of what they are smoking. 
 

this is a real mess, we need leaders, an identity, pretty much a new player in every position (Barring GK). The fact is whoever we appoint, there chances of failure are huge. My view is give it to Pearson today, it ticks one of the above boxes. He can then start to build today for next season, time is the commodity that will kill us. 

Spot on. There's an apathetic environment at city now, from the boardroom to the dressing room. It's crept in for the last few seasons and wasn't stamped out, so has took hold now. Think we've got to be more clinical and maintain expectations. It was obvious that both LJ and Holden would fail at getting top 6 weeks or even months before they were sacked, should have been more cut throat and sacked them earlier. Too many average players and managers are given too many chances for me, that's not to say we constantly sack managers, but there has to be a more consistent upholding of standards so that they become habits rather than aspirations. If Lansdown wants top 6, that has to become the expectation rather than the aim if you see what I mean.

Said it time and again but a DoF needs to come in, put Ashton in charge of the accounts and nothing else and actually rebuild the club. Really hope Pearson can have a SOD style impact in terms of restructuring whilst also playing good football.

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15 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

If you take all emotion out of this, and look at the facts as they are. We have a huge amount of “first team” players out of contract at the end of the year, and we know what that means regarding commitment to our cause.

 We have a manager out of contract at the end of the season, with nothing concrete about his position long term.

We have a CEO being linked to another club.

We have a chairman out in Bermuda building houses.

We have an owner openly admitting he is open to funding and maybe a way out. 
 

if anyone genuinely believes there is a coach/manager that could come in and get a tune out of us I’ll have some of what they are smoking. 
 

this is a real mess, we need leaders, an identity, pretty much a new player in every position (Barring GK). The fact is whoever we appoint, there chances of failure are huge. My view is give it to Pearson today, it ticks one of the above boxes. He can then start to build today for next season, time is the commodity that will kill us. 

Bang on the money there. Great post. Too many grey areas currently.
IMO, Steve L needs to come out with a statement ASAP on the managers position to add some stability to the club. Ashton should really be doing this but that useless piece of shit will be hiding again. That will help give direction and stability to all involved at the club.
Currently it feels like the club is in “a headless chicken” situation to me, with noone in permanent charge.

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21 minutes ago, ciderwithtommy said:

if anyone genuinely believes there is a coach/manager that could come in and get a tune out of us I’ll have some of what they are smoking. 
 

this is a real mess, we need leaders, an identity, pretty much a new player in every position (Barring GK). The fact is whoever we appoint, there chances of failure are huge. My view is give it to Pearson today, it ticks one of the above boxes. He can then start to build today for next season, time is the commodity that will kill us. 

Well said. Though before you decide on your identity and recruit around that, firstly you need a vision of what you want to be and where you want to go.

At the moment City don't even have a vision. That lack of clarity at the top means we're not even giving ourselves a chance of success. 

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2 hours ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Dont get the NP love in. 

He's done naff all 'with us' except make us worse not better. 

Sometimes managers and clubs dont work out, and at present this has the hallmarks of Pulis reign, inc signing unpopular players, crap football and a bunch of excuses. 

Really not impressed and relying on CVs based on what we've seen would have meant David James would have been one of our best players rather that absolute bobbins. 

 

I sympathise with your views on the signing of Danny Simpson, but I get the impression that Pearson could have won all of his games and you would still be against him due to that.

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1 hour ago, KegCity said:

Spot on. There's an apathetic environment at city now, from the boardroom to the dressing room. It's crept in for the last few seasons and wasn't stamped out, so has took hold now. Think we've got to be more clinical and maintain expectations. It was obvious that both LJ and Holden would fail at getting top 6 weeks or even months before they were sacked, should have been more cut throat and sacked them earlier. Too many average players and managers are given too many chances for me, that's not to say we constantly sack managers, but there has to be a more consistent upholding of standards so that they become habits rather than aspirations. If Lansdown wants top 6, that has to become the expectation rather than the aim if you see what I mean.

Said it time and again but a DoF needs to come in, put Ashton in charge of the accounts Ipswich Town and nothing else and actually rebuild the club. Really hope Pearson can have a SOD style impact in terms of restructuring whilst also playing good football.

Corrected for you.

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4 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

There’s more to life than CVs.  The awkward fact for me is that earlier in the season, when Holden was in charge and the injury crisis was at its peak, we were playing better than we are now and occasionally producing some decent results.  When things started going seriously wrong, the blame was put entirely on Holden and the coaches, and the players were absolved from all responsibility.  Every single mistake a player made was put down to poor coaching.  Now the tables have turned and the players are held entirely responsible for our current abysmal form.  While I certainly don’t absolve the players from blame, I don’t buy the theory that there is an organised player conspiracy and it is concerning that Pearson doesn’t seem able to turn this around, despite his CV.  Ok, it’s been a long and difficult season, but I expected better results once Pearson was in place.  He is meant to be a strong manager, so are we really saying that he is being effectively bullied by the players?  Or perhaps the players are just completely devoid of confidence and self-belief after a long and traumatic season, in which case isn’t it the Manager’s job to fix that?

Don’t get me wrong, I was pleased to see Pearson come in, but I expected better from him in terms of what I’m seeing on the field.

Its not as if we've changed said coaching staff is it? 

If he had been able to appoint his own team, I'm sure we'd have seen more of an uptick. 

Issue is, the nearer we get to end of the season the less players such as Hunt, Diedhiou, Walsh, are going to want to play to any hard extent and get injured. 

Honestly think we'd be better off playing the U23s AG this stage. 

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Just now, Fuber said:

Its not as if we've changed said coaching staff is it? 

If he had been able to appoint his own team, I'm sure we'd have seen more of an uptick. 

Issue is, the nearer we get to end of the season the less players such as Hunt, Diedhiou, Walsh, are going to want to play to any hard extent and get injured. 

Honestly think we'd be better off playing the U23s AG this stage. 

I think playing the whole lot would not be a good idea but certainly it might be time to give Towler (who I think will be a fully fledged first team squad player next season) a go. I know it's far from ideal having a left footer at left back but.................

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

You really think doing something groundbreaking like appointing a female manager in the context of our form is a good idea? It's an incredibly brave suggestion !

A good manager will get results regardless of gender. 

Look past traditional thinking. 

In many cases and in many responses we're not. 

There's a problem that the team arent cohesive or coherent, there's a rogue element and the defacto approach appears to be Stick as a method of galvanising, or blaming uncle Tom Cobbleh and all. 

It's not working especially when you consider that NP has just gone 'I cant work with the tools that I have' , making himself look incapable in the process. 

No one on here will agree with that as everyone appears to have convinced themselves that the club is rotten and will implode at any time and are blaming literally anyone else. 

We've a situation where rather than work with the good we have and nuture that, it's ultimatum this or ultimatum that and shows a complete lack of man management skills if the boss cant motivate or even get a team playing, the very basics of his job. 

This is echoed by a chorus of fans who've convinced themselves that there's no hope and no way back and the only solution is to blank slate and start again. 

Players don't suddenly become awful over night and there's a lot to be said that NP cant seemingly do that with what he has preferring to shame those with 'personal circumstances' etc or to pick youth and then claim that he doesn't want to ruin them, but carries on picking them anyway. 

That doesnt stack up and for me alarm bells are ringing already because the manager isnt able to manage. 

So, we go a different way. Bristol is a very different city and has a very different way of life than many parts of the UK, so we should tap into that rather trying to continually fight against it and expect different results. 

No one will succeed long-term here if we dont stop trying to replicate others methods and models and celebrate our own uniqueness and work with that. Creating a non hostile environment maybe a start and getting more out of the players by listening to them rather than treating them like naughty children maybe a start. 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

A good manager will get results regardless of gender. 

Look past traditional thinking. 

In many cases and in many responses we're not. 

There's a problem that the team arent cohesive or coherent, there's a rogue element and the defacto approach appears to be Stick as a method of galvanising, or blaming uncle Tom Cobbleh and all. 

It's not working especially when you consider that NP has just gone 'I cant work with the tools that I have' , making himself look incapable in the process. 

No one on here will agree with that as everyone appears to have convinced themselves that the club is rotten and will implode at any time and are blaming literally anyone else. 

We've a situation where rather than work with the good we have and nuture that, it's ultimatum this or ultimatum that and shows a complete lack of man management skills if the boss cant motivate or even get a team playing, the very basics of his job. 

This is echoed by a chorus of fans who've convinced themselves that there's no hope and no way back and the only solution is to blank slate and start again. 

Players don't suddenly become awful over night and there's a lot to be said that NP cant seemingly do that with what he has preferring to shame those with 'personal circumstances' etc or to pick youth and then claim that he doesn't want to ruin them, but carries on picking them anyway. 

That doesnt stack up and for me alarm bells are ringing already because the manager isnt able to manage. 

So, we go a different way. Bristol is a very different city and has a very different way of life than many parts of the UK, so we should tap into that rather trying to continually fight against it and expect different results. 

No one will succeed long-term here if we dont stop trying to replicate others methods and models and celebrate our own uniqueness and work with that. Creating a non hostile environment maybe a start and getting more out of the players by listening to them rather than treating them like naughty children maybe a start. 

 

 

 

Taking Stokes Croft, Southville and a few hundred rioters out of the equation in what way is the MAJORITY of Bristol so different from any other City? With respect you seem to have a romantic view of Bristol that not so many who actually live here (particularly Bristolians) would share. Do you have a particular Woman in mind for the job? It has to be someone who has the aptitude and qualifications to do the job, not just picked "cos we fancies doing something gert different from everyone else"........

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He hasn’t said he can’t work with the tools he has.  He’s just laid out the facts that players are being unprofessional.  Should he put all those unprofessional players out on the pitch?  Clearly he’s had to put one or two in the team to protect the youngsters.

You’re missing the point that NP has come into a club where a contract strategy had been decided that means players have nothing to play for.

You’re missing the point that he is not the person to decide their fate, because thats not his remit (at the mo’, because he isn’t here next season).

This is a pretty unique situation.

What he has left to work with, he will work with, don’t worry about that.  But it’s not very much is it?

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

He hasn’t said he can’t work with the tools he has.  He’s just laid out the facts that players are being unprofessional.  Should he put all those unprofessional players out on the pitch?  Clearly he’s had to put one or two in the team to protect the youngsters.

You’re missing the point that NP has come into a club where a contract strategy had been decided that means players have nothing to play for.

You’re missing the point that he is not the person to decide their fate, because thats not his remit (at the mo’, because he isn’t here next season).

This is a pretty unique situation.

What he has left to work with, he will work with, don’t worry about that.  But it’s not very much is it?

I think the point is being "missed" as you put it for a very specific reason.

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4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Taking Stokes Croft, Southville and a few hundred rioters out of the equation in what way is the MAJORITY of Bristol so different from any other City? With respect you seem to have a romantic view of Bristol that not so many who actually live here (particularly Bristolians) would share. Do you have a particular Woman in mind for the job? It has to be someone who has the aptitude and qualifications to do the job, not just picked "cos we fancies doing something gert different from everyone else"........

Yeah, I knew you'd be all over that post despite me earlier saying to quit it. 

Please don't bother responding  to me again. 

Thanks. 

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He hasn’t said he can’t work with the tools he has.  He’s just laid out the facts that players are being unprofessional.  Should he put all those unprofessional players out on the pitch?  Clearly he’s had to put one or two in the team to protect the youngsters.

You’re missing the point that NP has come into a club where a contract strategy had been decided that means players have nothing to play for.

You’re missing the point that he is not the person to decide their fate, because thats not his remit (at the mo’, because he isn’t here next season).

This is a pretty unique situation.

What he has left to work with, he will work with, don’t worry about that.  But it’s not very much is it?

I'm not missing any points. However you seem keen though to repeatedly tell me what I should be thinking and doing though which is frankly a bit bizarre. 

I'll worry about my thoughts and you try and contain yours about what you think i should be thinking. okay? 

Cool 

Enjoy the rest of your afternoon 

 

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5 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It's all about opinions. I find it just as absurd that if a group of players ( largely the same basic group for the majority of this season) can win matches, sometimes convincingly and against some decent opponents then it is clear they are capable of winning more.

Nigel Pearson has come in with an impressive CV although maybe some questions about Watford.....or Derby.

If he is the right man then how is it the case that performances are seemingly getting worse not better and we can no longer win a game against anyone.

How is it possible that this is SOLELY down to everyone except highly experienced tactician and player motivator, Nigel Pearson?

Early days but I'm so underwhelmed at his progress so far. And if Simpson was a statement signing- he's made the wrong statement.

 

Because the players can now see the finishing line and, subconsciously, believe threre's no chance we'll be relegated. Their mindset, focus, application in April is, subconsciously, different to what it was in August or December or February. They think the season's over, that there's nothing to play for - unlike in August, December or February. They think those 2 wins at Boro and Swansea saw to that. Just a 5% dip, subconsciously, in physical or mental application is enough for a team to come out on the wrong side of results in this division. The application of some of our players hasn't so much dipped by 5% as plunged off a cliff.  

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The fact that this thread exists shows that at this point the reign of pearson isnt going 100 percent well. There are circumstances to mitigate this, but we are losing most of our games and looking pretty pathetic while doing it.

 if you are the owner, it would be natural to expect a bit more from your highly rated experienced manager before you give him a juicy 3 year contract.

the timing is a one off, but getting rid of 25 pros and signing 25 replacements in one window isnt an option at this point, so there are a lot of the current squad that he is going to have to work with if he stays, and hes just come out and told the media they are being unprofessional and he doesnt care about their personal problems. He may be right, but its not really looking good either now or in the future.

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5 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

The fact that this thread exists shows that at this point the reign of pearson isnt going 100 percent well. There are circumstances to mitigate this, but we are losing most of our games and looking pretty pathetic while doing it.

 if you are the owner, it would be natural to expect a bit more from your highly rated experienced manager before you give him a juicy 3 year contract.

the timing is a one off, but getting rid of 25 pros and signing 25 replacements in one window isnt an option at this point, so there are a lot of the current squad that he is going to have to work with if he stays, and hes just come out and told the media they are being unprofessional and he doesnt care about their personal problems. He may be right, but its not really looking good either now or in the future.

 

Just look at the hand he's been dealt.

Do you think if Pep Guardiola went to Southend United they'd win next year's FA Cup?

Pearson can only work with what he's been given and with no windows available to improve/balance the squad all he could bring in was Danny Simpson, a free agent who may or may not work out in coming weeks.

This is the context in which Lansdown should weigh up the appointment. Whether he does or not is another matter...

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3 hours ago, ciderwithtommy said:

If you take all emotion out of this, and look at the facts as they are. We have a huge amount of “first team” players out of contract at the end of the year, and we know what that means regarding commitment to our cause.

 We have a manager out of contract at the end of the season, with nothing concrete about his position long term.

We have a CEO being linked to another club.

We have a chairman out in Bermuda building houses.

We have an owner openly admitting he is open to funding and maybe a way out. 
 

if anyone genuinely believes there is a coach/manager that could come in and get a tune out of us I’ll have some of what they are smoking. 
 

this is a real mess, we need leaders, an identity, pretty much a new player in every position (Barring GK). The fact is whoever we appoint, there chances of failure are huge. My view is give it to Pearson today, it ticks one of the above boxes. He can then start to build today for next season, time is the commodity that will kill us. 

Top post (I'm out of likes) 👍

3 hours ago, Gert Mare said:

NP is right when he says that games aren't just won on the pitch, but in the minds as a collective and he has called out the fact that this current team is one full of individuals with their own 'issues' and it needs to be changed in order to move this club forward.

The club have got themselves into this mess by selling first and then trying to fill the gaps afterwards, or at least it appears that way. In order to stay on the gravy train they need to be planning for anyone to leave and have a number of potential replacements lined up. They also need to absolutely as a minimum ensure that the 'spine' of the team remains in place. This season it is clearly evident that the engine room in midfield is lacking in the quality required to take charge of the game and this is why we have been second best in a lot of games this season. When our midfield are giving their best we have a chance, but all too often one or more aren't committed enough and the writing is on the wall in terms of the result.

Top post (I'm out of likes) 👍 The bit about selling first and then trying to fill the gaps especially - that's been doing my head in for a while. 

3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

At the moment City don't even have a vision. That lack of clarity at the top means we're not even giving ourselves a chance of success. 

A fish rots from the head down. Which might just be horribly apt, right now.  

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8 hours ago, Br 1st ol said:

A controversial view on OTIB perhaps, but if common thinking suggests it is the players who are the problem, why did we get rid of Dean, and will Nigel be any better?
 

Certainly Nigel has not been the messiah as yet. Any more or less so than Dean was before him. 
 

From what we have seen, team selection, formation, tactics and results have not been markedly different. Surely we may have expected an uplift?

Is NP really the man? Not sure....

Keep taking the tablets.

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28 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

A fish rots from the head down. Which might just be horribly apt, right now.  

 

I'm always reading this, but to be honest, every corpse rots from the intestinal system outwards. 

Nothing to do with football, it's just that particular "old Turkish proverb" irks me.

Carry on as you were....

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9 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I'm always reading this, but to be honest, every corpse rots from the intestinal system outwards. 

Nothing to do with football, it's just that particular "old Turkish proverb" irks me.

Carry on as you were....

Thank you (I did write "apparently" but then deleted it!). 

This leaves me wondering who at BCFC could be described as the intestinal system... 

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5 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Thank you (I did write "apparently" but then deleted it!). 

This leaves me wondering who at BCFC could be described as the intestinal system... 

 

I think we might know who the rectum is!  :laughcont:

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