Are we coming up to a seismic time for the club?

[Atticus]

TBH I wouldn't even be to bothered if Pearson left. He has helped in exactly zero way. Its been a huge underwhelming appointment in terms of results.

What we need is a huge clear out of personnel. We have too many players here that are either not good enough or just dont want to be here. Get rid of them. As many as possible to be honest.

We also need to be rid of the likes of Ashton. Thats a given. The players we have signed this season have been absolutely shocking.

 

[Atticus]

8 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think the situation is much more pressing. For me, both parties have a matter of days to get this sorted now, or the odds of one party walking away increases dramatically. 

The longer this farce continues, the longer we will keep losing games. It's clear the club, playing staff and coaching staff, and, hey those folk that support the club through thick and thin, THE FANS, need some reassurance regarding stability. 

If Pearson hasn't signed a long-term deal within the next 7-10 days, by the Wednesday game next Saturday at the latest, then we can begin to assume something is awry. 

What has Pearson done to be awarded any longer term deal?

[Numero Uno]

9 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think the situation is much more pressing. For me, both parties have a matter of days to get this sorted now, or the odds of one party walking away increases dramatically. 

The longer this farce continues, the longer we will keep losing games. It's clear the club, playing staff and coaching staff, and, hey those folk that support the club through thick and thin, THE FANS, need some reassurance regarding stability. 

If Pearson hasn't signed a long-term deal within the next 7-10 days, by the Wednesday game next Saturday at the latest, then we can begin to assume something is awry. 

Tbh I think it should be sorted in the next couple of weeks or sooner if the Owner is desperate enough. However this club is rarely that decisive and generally far more cautious.

[Taz]

47 minutes ago, Atticus said:

What has Pearson done to be awarded any longer term deal?

See previous successes, then also see Hughton at Forest. 

At first Hughton and Forest looked be doomed from the start with poor results, and people on here were in the camp of "glad we didn't take on Hughton now". Looks very different now there, especially since he's had time to put his mark on the place.

The players here, on the whole couldn't care less as most are off shortly anyway, and we've seen players like Fam not really do anything for ages, but still get picked to "show his value on the pitch". That is the bigger problem here.

[oldstandrobin]

28 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Tbh I think it should be sorted in the next couple of weeks or sooner if the Owner is desperate enough. However this club is rarely that decisive and generally far more cautious.

Owner: SL    Previous Occupation :  Accountant.     Nuff said

[Atticus]

3 minutes ago, Taz said:

See previous successes, then also see Hughton at Forest. 

At first Hughton and Forest looked be doomed from the start with poor results, and people on here were in the camp of "glad we didn't take on Hughton now". Looks very different now there, especially since he's had time to put his mark on the place.

The players here, on the whole couldn't care less as most are off shortly anyway, and we've seen players like Fam not really do anything for ages, but still get picked to "show his value on the pitch". That is the bigger problem here.

Hm, im still not 100% convinced. Hughton has been on a good mini run with Forest, but hardly been transformative to a team that was so close to the playoffs last season.

 

And If our first signing under Pearson is anything to go by, i really am not convinced. I do not want to see expensive 30+ journeymen being signed on free's in the summer, which, I kind of see happening. 

[Floatn Over]

I can understand the reasoning of some and it’s a forum so all views are to be respected but I find some of the negativity and indifference developing towards NP disappointing.  Yes results have been poor but for once we have an experienced name as a manager, who talks straight (no mentions of box entries etc) and has indicated the type of players needed in the future, playing for the shirt.  Would things have been any better in the short term under Mark Hughes or others, I personally doubt it very much.

I am focused on NP being here next season and looking forward to him assembling his team in the summer, the seismic change, just hope it happens but I’m half expecting my hopes to be blown away and the club will rumble on with yet another uninspiring experimental David James type choice of manager.

NP will have other offers and if he does not feel wanted rest assured he will walk, if that happens some will just say “Oh Well” - disappointing IMO but it’s a forum.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, Atticus said:

What has Pearson done to be awarded any longer term deal?

Spoken truth to power.

 

[Taz]

19 minutes ago, Atticus said:

Hm, im still not 100% convinced. Hughton has been on a good mini run with Forest, but hardly been transformative to a team that was so close to the playoffs last season.

 

And If our first signing under Pearson is anything to go by, i really am not convinced. I do not want to see expensive 30+ journeymen being signed on free's in the summer, which, I kind of see happening. 

I kind of agree with you about the signings, although part of me thinks if it takes 3 or 4 30+ year olds with a mix of younger good talent (and by good I mean the here and now, and not one for the future types), then so be it.

The Simpson signing is a divisive one, but on the other hand it's a sign of Pearson coming in, seeing a weakness in the side and addressing it as best as possible with what's available to him, even if that is short term signings.

[Atticus]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Spoken truth to power.

 

And signed a 34 year old journeyman right back.

The results have continued to be abysmal. With no end in sight tbh. He clearly cannot motivate the players we have. Of course there is plenty of reasons why that may be.  But that would be a cause of concern for me as an owner. 

[SecretSam]

9 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Spoken truth to power.

 

That won't bother SL or MA. You don't get to be senior managers and successful business persons by not listening to advice. Quite the opposite.

[cidered abroad]

11 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said:

Owner: SL    Previous Occupation :  Accountant.     Nuff said

Very true statement and fact. @oldstandrobin

Any company run by accountants is too cautious by a mile. An accountant is simply a historian who gathers all the data of "What has occurred" and bases any future occurences on those facts and assumes that they will "Re-occur exactly the same in the future".

I understand that Hargreaves is the "Gambler" of the pairing. The one who looked at situations to make bigger returns than basic interest gathering. Now that does not mean being reckless with money but considering how to increase a basic return on capital to make it a bigger money earner. To spend a bit more with a chance that it will bring a decent percentage return more than normal.

Almost certainly why SL has continually gone for the less experienced manager simply because their inexperience does not give them the confidence to argue for the gamble. That is how I read the City philosophy under SL. Build the stadium and training facilities but never gamble on personnel. I appreciate that FFP rules may have been a factor in not overspending on incoming transfer fees and as a consequence the salaries for those players.

But where money is involved there are always ways of "bending" the rules. Bournemouth a good example?

And surely when one has approaching £2 BILLION in assets, to gamble £50 / £100 million on the personnel, manager and players, who would give us an outstanding chance of getting promotion. Where he would recoup his outlay!

I'm not a gambler, never go near a bookies, spend money carefully.

Tomorrow I go for my second Covid vaccination. There is a 1 in 250,000 chance that I will die from a blood clot.

I will gamble that I am not the one and if I had SL's wealth, I would certainly gamble 5% of £2 BILLION on getting City to the Premier League!

 

 

[RedRaw]

2 minutes ago, Atticus said:

And signed a 34 year old journeyman right back.

The results have continued to be abysmal. With no end in sight tbh. He clearly cannot motivate the players we have. Of course there is plenty of reasons why that may be.  But that would be a cause of concern for me as an owner. 

On effectively a 2 month contract to bring in some experience for 6/7 games.....if he proves his fitness and worth then he may earn a 1 year deal....don’t see the problem especially as we are likely to have a young squad next season

the results have continued to be abysmal because we have the same bloated/injured squad as we’ve had all season with around 10 players who don’t see themselves here next season and don’t give a toss.....Pearson said as much in his post match interview the other day.

Pearson was brought in primarily to stop the slide which he did and is probably 1 win from safety.....you can not expect him to stamp his mark in such a short time on a poor squad, several of which are clearly on their way.

we also have the off the field smoke and mirrors about contract extensions, diabolical fitness and injury situation, CEO staying/leaving, owner pimping the club.....the club is a basket case at the moment and any manager brought in would struggle

 

[Street red]

13 minutes ago, Atticus said:

And signed a 34 year old journeyman right back.

The results have continued to be abysmal. With no end in sight tbh. He clearly cannot motivate the players we have. Of course there is plenty of reasons why that may be.  But that would be a cause of concern for me as an owner. 

Yes but maybe these players are not intelligent enough and good enough to take things on board.They have hardly set the world alight even under Johnson.

No manager will change this squad around and it needs An entire new backroom staff as well. The squad isn't as good as we all think and the sooner it gets shaken up the better.

[SecretSam]

9 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

An accountant is simply a historian who gathers all the data of "What has occurred" and bases any future occurences on those facts and assumes that they will "Re-occur exactly the same in the future".

 

Congratulations on demonstrating total ignorance of what a financial manager's role is in a major enterprise.

[Kid in the Riot]

13 minutes ago, Atticus said:

And signed a 34 year old journeyman right back.

The results have continued to be abysmal. With no end in sight tbh. He clearly cannot motivate the players we have. Of course there is plenty of reasons why that may be.  But that would be a cause of concern for me as an owner. 

You can't seriously be judging the direction of travel of Pearson signings on one temporary signing made outside of a transfer window, can you? Who else was he supposed to sign to plug that hole in the side outside of a window?? Please give us names if you can...

If you're concerned about the signing of ageing players then I suggest you look at our record pre-Pearson, which is that 7 out of last 8 signings were aged over 30.

Contrast that with the debuts and minutes Pearson has already given to several Academy players - Bell, Pearson, Conway and it is a nonsense to suggest he is reliant on journeymen. 

As for results not improving, context is important. Let's be clear Pearson took over the worst team in the division. Forget league position or even results. Under Holden we were performing as the worst team in the division in terms of chances created and chances conceded (maybe Wycombe aside). 

We were lucky to be where we were in the table. It was a false position. 

Fast forward to Pearson and whilst there hasn't been a signicant upturn in results, we are at least performing slightly better, particularly in terms of the number and quality of chances we are conceding. We still look toothless in attack but that isn't something that can be fixed overnight unfortunately. 

If things don't change quickly, like now, and drastically this summer then we will be in a relegation battle  next season. Absolutely no doubt about it. It's just history repeating from 8/9 years ago last time we went down. 

Now is not the time for experiments with managers, we need an experienced proven operator.  So unless you have any better ideas then Pearson has to be the man we put our trust in because his CV suggests he can turn our fortunes given time and backing. 

[Numero Uno]

45 minutes ago, Atticus said:

And signed a 34 year old journeyman right back.

The results have continued to be abysmal. With no end in sight tbh. He clearly cannot motivate the players we have. Of course there is plenty of reasons why that may be.  But that would be a cause of concern for me as an owner. 

What is your definition of "journeyman"? Someone who went to Leicester City and won a Premier League medal? I get you might think he's "past it" but it's odd to label him a "journeyman" in my opinion. You may as well call any player that plays for more than two clubs in their career a journeyman. Is there a possibility that he has been signed to be NP's "eyes and ears" in the dressing room?

My question is do we keep changing Managers until we miraculously find one that is able to motivate players who clearly have no interest in being motivated? There comes a point where you have to have stability and go with it, not change the Manager every time the players have had their feelings hurt which is totally unsustainable for any Owner anyway, and with our out of contract player situation we'll never have a better chance to do that.

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, Atticus said:

What has Pearson done to be awarded any longer term deal?

His track record or CV shows that he’s proven at Championship level - that’s a qualification that many posters wanted the new manager to have when Ashton and invisible Jon were in slow motion after LJ was sacked.

MM and CH were the main two names.

Its worth noting that NP has inherited a poorly recruited squad of players assembled  over 4 seasons and coached to play ‘safe’ football by LJ and Deano.

I posted yesterday that his post Coventry comments were absolutely spot on. Should Nige get appointed he’ll have the summer to trim the squad and license to bring in some of his own players followed by a full preseason to implement his methods.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

You can't seriously be judging the direction of travel of Pearson signings on one temporary signing made outside of a transfer window, can you? Who else was he supposed to sign to plug that hole in the side outside of a window?? Please give us names if you can...

If you're concerned about the signing of ageing players then I suggest you look at our record pre-Pearson, which is that 7 out of last 8 signings were aged over 30.

Contrast that with the debuts and minutes Pearson has already given to several Academy players - Bell, Pearson, Conway and it is a nonsense to suggest he is reliant on journeymen. 

As for results not improving, context is important. Let's be clear Pearson took over the worst team in the division. Forget league position or even results. Under Holden we were performing as the worst team in the division in terms of chances created and chances conceded (maybe Wycombe aside). 

We were lucky to be where we were in the table. It was a false position. 

Fast forward to Pearson and whilst there hasn't been a signicant upturn in results, we are at least performing slightly better, particularly in terms of the number and quality of chances we are conceding. We still look toothless in attack but that isn't something that can be fixed overnight unfortunately. 

If things don't change quickly, like now, and drastically this summer then we will be in a relegation battle  next season. Absolutely no doubt about it. It's just history repeating from 8/9 years ago last time we went down. 

Now is not the time for experiments with managers, we need an experienced proven operator.  So unless you have any better ideas then Pearson has to be the man we put our trust in because his CV suggests he can turn our fortunes given time and backing. 

If things don't change quickly and drastically it won't be a relegation BATTLE (which assumes you have something to fight for), we'll be bottom all season and done and dusted by the end of January. I said on another topic that if Lansdown takes the cautious approach and reverts to type I will be putting enough money on us getting relegated next season to cover the cost of my season ticket. Not a nice thing to be doing but I see it as easy money. I do wonder sometimes whether there is an attitude in this part of the country that makes people "scared" to take a chance on proven performers. Everything seems to have to be "nice and cosy" and it seems that "safe mediocrity" is preferred, if we don't really get anywhere that's alright. For some supporters it's only the prospect of League 1 derbies with the Few staring them straight in the face that might make them wake up and smell the coffee.

[Atticus]

26 minutes ago, Street red said:

Yes but maybe these players are not intelligent enough and good enough to take things on board.They have hardly set the world alight even under Johnson.

No manager will change this squad around and it needs An entire new backroom staff as well. The squad isn't as good as we all think and the sooner it gets shaken up the better.

They were certainly not this abysmal under Johnson though.  These are professional football players. The fact that a new manager has literally not done anything to even remotely motivate them is alarming to me. 

[Atticus]

15 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

What is your definition of "journeyman"? Someone who went to Leicester City and won a Premier League medal? I get you might think he's "past it" but it's odd to label him a "journeyman" in my opinion. You may as well call any player that plays for more than two clubs in their career a journeyman.

My question is do we keep changing Managers until we miraculously find one that is able to motivate players who clearly have no interest in being motivated? There comes a point where you have to have stability and go with it, not change the Manager every time the players have had their feelings hurt which is totally unsustainable for any Owner anyway, and with our out of contract player situation we'll never have a better chance to do that.

Someone who is at the obvious end of his playing career, spent last seaon at a middling championship club, was released, then hasnt kicked a football for a whole season until now. 

[Atticus]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If things don't change quickly and drastically it won't be a relegation BATTLE (which assumes you have something to fight for), we'll be bottom all season and done and dusted by the end of January. I said on another topic that if Lansdown takes the cautious approach and reverts to type I will be putting enough money on us getting relegated next season to cover the cost of my season ticket. Not a nice thing to be doing but I see it as easy money. I do wonder sometimes whether there is an attitude in this part of the country that makes people "scared" to take a chance on proven performers. Everything seems to have to be "nice and cosy" and it seems that "safe mediocrity" is preferred, if we don't really get anywhere that's alright. For some supporters it's only the prospect of League 1 derbies with the Few staring them straight in the face that might make them wake up and smell the coffee.

I think some even relish being in that predicament. 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Atticus said:

They were certainly not this abysmal under Johnson though.  These are professional football players. The fact that a new manager has literally not done anything to even remotely motivate them is alarming to me. 

Why do players need motivating? Do they all turn up like zombies on a Saturday and you have 92 blokes in various locations of the country working like stink to motivate them? What happened to professional pride and self motivation?

Just now, Atticus said:

I think some even relish being in that predicament. 

No chance. You think that people want to sit through that, just because they have a different opinion to you?

Do you really think that?

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Atticus said:

Someone who is at the obvious end of his playing career, spent last seaon at a middling championship club, was released, then hasnt kicked a football for a whole season until now. 

That makes him someone who is at the end of his career not a middling, non-achieving, pick the wages up, 12 club journeyman, doesn't it?

[Atticus]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

His track record or CV shows that he’s proven at Championship level - that’s a qualification that many posters wanted the new manager to have when Ashton and invisible Jon were in slow motion after LJ was sacked.

MM and CH were the main two names.

He has been proven elsewhere. But is it under the same circumstance as here? These results imo are alarming. You would expect a new manager to bring in a fresh impetus, a fresh bounce, some new ideas, especially one as experienced as we have.

But we are utter dross. 

[Atticus]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Why do players need motivating? Do they all turn up like zombies on a Saturday and you have 92 blokes in various locations of the country working like stink to motivate them? What happened to professional pride and self motivation?

Players at every club need motivating. This is not a concept just limited to us. Its not like we are the only ones that need to do this.

In an ideal world you would hope the pay packet would be enough. Sadly in the world of football it is not. 

[Atticus]

7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Why do players need motivating? Do they all turn up like zombies on a Saturday and you have 92 blokes in various locations of the country working like stink to motivate them? What happened to professional pride and self motivation?

No chance. You think that people want to sit through that, just because they have a different opinion to you?

Do you really think that?

I think some people relish being in the same league as Rovers yes. Just for those games. 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Atticus said:

Players at every club need motivating. This is not a concept just limited to us. Its not like we are the only ones that need to do this.

In an ideal world you would hope the pay packet would be enough. Sadly in the world of football it is not. 

Agreed, it is over simplistic to suggest that "no motivation" is required. But our lot literally have no motivation, that's a big fat zero, and that has been caused by a CEO that told them clearly "the big guy in the corner has been offered the best deal ever made by the club, the rest of you can **** off, you ain't getting offered nothing". (and Steve tells us how the supporters get him all wrong and how bloody wonderful he is - you wouldn't have expected a five year old child to operate like that).

In the context of the above and knowing how football dressing rooms work I think that NP was walking into a huge shitstorm with no hope of turning it round personally.

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, Atticus said:

I think some people relish being in the same league as Rovers yes. Just for those games. 

If our league position next season reflects our "performances" this season they will be the first ones bellyaching!!

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, Atticus said:

He has been proven elsewhere. But is it under the same circumstance as here? These results imo are alarming. You would expect a new manager to bring in a fresh impetus, a fresh bounce, some new ideas, especially one as experienced as we have.

But we are utter dross. 

Absolutely but that’s not down to Nige. He did managed three decent away wins at Boro, Brum and Swansea tho.

It’s the home form that’s a real issue. One explanation for that is the absence of fans particularly home fans. I read recently that in the Championship this season there have been more away wins that in previous seasons - is that coincidence?