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Our Fans are the problem, not Mark Ashton or Steve Lansdown


AshtonYate
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1 hour ago, AshtonYate said:

I've been reading this forum from afar, and I've now finally had enough and signed up. 

I've been supporting Bristol City for 30 years now, followed home and away, so I'm not a new fan by any means.  What has shocked me though over resent years it the complete entitlement of our fans, especially at the moment.   

Mark Ashton

For me, the man has a done a decent job at the football club.  He is a fantastic negotiator and for the first time that I can remember we have been a force to reckon with when it comes to negotiation etc.  We've already heard from several employees within the club that Mark is a decent guy and works extremely really hard behind the scenes.  David Lloyd also said as much on OSIB this week.  He's obviously highly regarded within footballing circles as he's been giving a role on the EFL board!  So, because some of our fanbase wouldn't have a pint with him, wears a suit, he's suddenly slimy and a snake.  Honestly, who cares?  He's overseen one of the most successful periods in Bristol City's history.  He is an articulate and intelligent CEO, but lets hound him out with an absolute pipe dream of getting Scudamore in.  Are you having a laugh?  

Lets be honest, most people who have jumped on this witch hunt, as that is what it is, haven't got a clue what his role actually is. Fans just see a well groomed man in a suit and have just made their minds up that they don't like him because he, funnily enough, talks like a CEO. Lets be clear for the fans that can't compute this...... MARK ASHTON DOES IDENFIFTY PLAYERS TO SIGN. Mark Ashton overseas the recruitment team who finds the players.  They send lists of players to the manager, who then says YES or No. The manager will also suggest players for the recruitment team to analyse.  Where people have got the idea Mark Ashton identifies players, is beyond me and blows my mind.  But that doesn't fit in with the narrative does it. 

Why do our fans expect so much? I don't know another CEO in the football league that is expected to come out on radio and talk all of the time, its madness.    

Steve Lansdown 

It beggars belief how anyone would have a bad word to say about one of our own, who has ploughed over £200m into this club.  He has built a premier league standard stadium, a premier league quality training ground and has moved this club forward beyond recognition over the past 18 years. But yet all people want to do is abuse the guy!! Are you serious? Its like people think that running a successful football club is easy.  Simply black and white.  Could you imagine where we would be without the mans help? I'm not saying that he's always got it right, but he's sure got more right than wrong over the years and he is still ploughing money in.  You can tell that SL and JL are both at the end of the road with it, ploughing millions upon millions trying to elevate this club with nothing put abuse.  I'd have pulled the plug years ago.  The club would have been in great hands moving forward under JL, but SL has also said this week he isn't interested.  Are you surprised? Again, the abuse he gets on here is horrendous.  

10 clubs in the championship are now on a transfer ban!  We aren't one of them.  Can you guess why? Yeah, thats it, the CEO and the Owner have done a fantastic job to make sure that didn't happen during a worldwide pandemic.  We have a financially stable club when others all over the football league are crumbling.  

So if the fans got their way, we'd hound out an experienced CEO and a billionaire Bristol City supporting owner.  But where do you go from there once they leave in this little fantasy land ours? Maybe we can get in some Asian investment from owners that could barely point to Bristol on the map and have Ashton Gate sponsored by a betting company, as that's what it sounds like supporters want.  I'd hate to think what out fans would be like if we ACTUALLY had something bad to moan about. 

I love this club, I always will, but why do we as fans always have this need to press the self destruct button? We do we feel so entitled? We do we always need someone to blame? 

Every club go through ups and downs, but just think back and see how far we have come and tell me we haven't progressed in every department of this football club. 

 

I'm sorry if you don't agree, and I'm expecting a lot of abuse instead of constructive debate.  But is everything that bad?  

Our fans are the problem? How so, we have no power at all!

If everything is as rosy as you make out, then there is no problem. You're right though, everything is not that bad. Unfortunately the thing that really matters, performance on the pitch, is utterly diabolical. Fix that and most other concerns will fade from peoples minds.

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8 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I was going to simply be sarcastic and post 'phew...and I thought the wheels were falling off the wagon'...

...but reflection that's churlish. I'll simply say that Steve Lansdown has used his wealth to buy total control of a football club I and many others on here supported long before he'd given it a second thought. It's his enterprise, lock stock and barrel. Supporters have no say in any decisions made yet return year after year and buy season tickets in record numbers. It's a bit rich for these powerless supporters to be accused of entitlement when every year Lansdown makes promises on which he doesn't deliver. 20 years into his tenure the football is awful, the club a bit of a rudderless shambles.

In truth I assume the OP to be a wind up!

Its totally not a wind-up I promise you.  We as supporters really don't have a say on footballing matters, nor does any other supporter of any football club around the world.  That isn't a Mark Ashton or SL issue.  But to say they don't listen to us, imo, simply isn't true.  I think we as fans sometimes forget that this football club do listen to us when it comes to player purchases.  Lets be honest, we were happy with the signings of most of the players we have.  SL went all out to get Kalas, Palmer, DaSilva etc; So they do listen. But they aren't going to break the bank to satisfy us all of the time. 

When I started to support this club, we were a league one / 2 yoyo club, but we are arguably in the best position that its ever been in! But yet, I honestly think there is more discontent and discontent again the board than there has ever been. 

Its like when we don't get our way, we always have to see heads roll.  Its like we never give it time.  The appointment of DH was a ballsup, but that happens in football.  Overall though, MA has had a pretty decent reign and I will be sad to see him leave as I don't think I could name anyone who could or would do a better job.  

I'm telling you now, get rid of MA & SL and watch us drop down the leagues. 

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From a purely business point of view, City aren't doing too badly: good infrastructure (AG, HPC), solid youth set up, stable ownership. 

But the visible product-the team- are not performing. 

That is not Ashton's job to fix. It is the job of the manager and coaching staff. However, it is Ashton's job to pick good people, and give them the tools they need.

Over the last season, he has fallen short. But then, as CEO he has hsd to mske sure yhe club steered through a difficult period, like all clubs.

Now he has to show his quality.

More of a concern is the Lansdown jnr situation, and succession planning.

Edited by SecretSam
Terrible typin
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1 hour ago, AshtonYate said:

I've been reading this forum from afar, and I've now finally had enough and signed up. 

I've been supporting Bristol City for 30 years now, followed home and away, so I'm not a new fan by any means.  What has shocked me though over resent years it the complete entitlement of our fans, especially at the moment.   

Mark Ashton

For me, the man has a done a decent job at the football club.  He is a fantastic negotiator and for the first time that I can remember we have been a force to reckon with when it comes to negotiation etc.  We've already heard from several employees within the club that Mark is a decent guy and works extremely really hard behind the scenes.  David Lloyd also said as much on OSIB this week.  He's obviously highly regarded within footballing circles as he's been giving a role on the EFL board!  So, because some of our fanbase wouldn't have a pint with him, wears a suit, he's suddenly slimy and a snake.  Honestly, who cares?  He's overseen one of the most successful periods in Bristol City's history.  He is an articulate and intelligent CEO, but lets hound him out with an absolute pipe dream of getting Scudamore in.  Are you having a laugh?  

Lets be honest, most people who have jumped on this witch hunt, as that is what it is, haven't got a clue what his role actually is. Fans just see a well groomed man in a suit and have just made their minds up that they don't like him because he, funnily enough, talks like a CEO. Lets be clear for the fans that can't compute this...... MARK ASHTON DOES IDENFIFTY PLAYERS TO SIGN. Mark Ashton overseas the recruitment team who finds the players.  They send lists of players to the manager, who then says YES or No. The manager will also suggest players for the recruitment team to analyse.  Where people have got the idea Mark Ashton identifies players, is beyond me and blows my mind.  But that doesn't fit in with the narrative does it. 

Why do our fans expect so much? I don't know another CEO in the football league that is expected to come out on radio and talk all of the time, its madness.    

Steve Lansdown 

It beggars belief how anyone would have a bad word to say about one of our own, who has ploughed over £200m into this club.  He has built a premier league standard stadium, a premier league quality training ground and has moved this club forward beyond recognition over the past 18 years. But yet all people want to do is abuse the guy!! Are you serious? Its like people think that running a successful football club is easy.  Simply black and white.  Could you imagine where we would be without the mans help? I'm not saying that he's always got it right, but he's sure got more right than wrong over the years and he is still ploughing money in.  You can tell that SL and JL are both at the end of the road with it, ploughing millions upon millions trying to elevate this club with nothing put abuse.  I'd have pulled the plug years ago.  The club would have been in great hands moving forward under JL, but SL has also said this week he isn't interested.  Are you surprised? Again, the abuse he gets on here is horrendous.  

10 clubs in the championship are now on a transfer ban!  We aren't one of them.  Can you guess why? Yeah, thats it, the CEO and the Owner have done a fantastic job to make sure that didn't happen during a worldwide pandemic.  We have a financially stable club when others all over the football league are crumbling.  

So if the fans got their way, we'd hound out an experienced CEO and a billionaire Bristol City supporting owner.  But where do you go from there once they leave in this little fantasy land ours? Maybe we can get in some Asian investment from owners that could barely point to Bristol on the map and have Ashton Gate sponsored by a betting company, as that's what it sounds like supporters want.  I'd hate to think what out fans would be like if we ACTUALLY had something bad to moan about. 

I love this club, I always will, but why do we as fans always have this need to press the self destruct button? We do we feel so entitled? We do we always need someone to blame? 

Every club go through ups and downs, but just think back and see how far we have come and tell me we haven't progressed in every department of this football club. 

 

I'm sorry if you don't agree, and I'm expecting a lot of abuse instead of constructive debate.  But is everything that bad?  

Perhaps you should edit your highlighted part...as you've said MA does the recruitment.

When you say...the recruitment team are looking at players and take a list to the manager...what are they looking for? If you think a recruitment team are just looking at any old player and think ' he looks good in that position and is undervalued' and notify the coach...if you think that to be the case, then no wonder we play so badly. That formula is purely scatter gun. Perhaps you are right and that's the case, because if you look at what we've bought in over the past few seasons, hardly any of the players are conducive to playing together. It's completely disjointed.

So if your reasoning is true...then the system is wrong.

If the coach gives a remit of the type of players he wants to suit a system to the recruitment and scouting team, then that would make more sense. ' Find me players that fit this system'...that should be the remit.

What we've had instead...is a CEO who's in charge of the budget as well as recruitment. He has to tick two very big boxes. Find players that fit a system that the coach wants, that come under budget, and that have value on resale.

What we get, are players that are rough diamonds, that could be ok to play into a system if coached into it... basically square pegs in round holes, rather than already ready for that system...or more recently older players with no resale value or drive to want to better themselves. Their better days behind them.

MA should be no where near recruitment. He should purely be about negotiating contracts and the business side. His jobs conflict one another.

We should have someone who recruits and overseas that part of the game, a coach and coaching team...and MA or other doing negotiations and business. All three come together to agree on players that suit system and what we can afford.

Right now it's purely scatter gun and completely useless.

 

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1 minute ago, SecretSam said:

From a purely business point of view, City aren't doing too badly: good infrastructure (AG, HPC), solid youth set up, stable ownership. 

But yhe visible product-the team- are not performing. 

That is not Ashton's job to fix. It is the job of the manager and coaching staff. However, it is Ashton's job to pick good people, and give them the tools they need.

Over the last season, he has fallen short. But then, as CEO he has hsd to mske sure yhe club steered through a difficult period, like all clubs.

Now he has to show his quality.

More of a concern is the Lansdown jnr situation, and succession planning.

Exactly this Sam.  JL is off, you can tell he's had enough of it, and I don't blame him.  Imagine constantly reading from your fellow fans how much they disrespect you all of the time.  I really don't blame him.  When SL pulls out, then watch how screwed we are.  We mock Cardiff, Hull etc, but thats what people want it seems.  I think some supporters live in this fantasy land, but the reality of not having SL here with his money and stability will bite HARD. 

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If it is the case that Ashton is in charge of all aspects of recruitment... including identifying players and having the final say... that's a huge amount of power.

I can't imagine for one instant that this is the case. He may oversee both processes, but it's unlikely from a risk management perspective that he would have total control.

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1 minute ago, SecretSam said:

If it is the case that Ashton is in charge of all aspects of recruitment... including identifying players and having the final say... that's a huge amount of power.

I can't imagine for one instant that this is the case. He may oversee both processes, but it's unlikely from a risk management perspective that he would have total control.

Exactly.  You only have to look at the signing of DS to see that its the manager who has complete control.  If you think that DS was a MA signing, then you're deluded. 

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16 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

It's an interesting question that David Lloyd, I think, raised. At how many clubs could the fans name the CEO? Probably few. 

If you read the Rovers forum they are well aware of who is in their senior executive positions and we also know this about our club.

I don't follow any other clubs sufficienty closely to know about them but in this admittedly limited sample that is 100% of clubs.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

OP.

If you genuinely think my view of club employee performance is based on the fact they wear a suit, talk in a Corporate way, etc, then you’ve seriously misjudged where my view comes from.  I expect him to wear a suit, I expect him to talk in a way according to his role.  If you think I’ve joined a witch hunt, then check the analysis and investigation I’ve done.  If that happens to tie up nicely with what others have found out too, some through direct experience of dealing with him, then it’s gonna inform abd influence other posters’ views too, that’s how things work!

I also expect him to take responsibility for the delivering the strategy of the owner through the board (of which he is a director) to the various areas of the football club, and on the playing side through the manager / head-coach,

He performs some of those aspects well, administration of a football operation, representing SL’s view at the EFL.

He fails on some too....contract strategy, recruitment, succession planning of staff and players....and those also have a huge bearing on the overall financial strategy of sustainability.  We are nowhere near sustainable.

If you want to give him credit for a successful period, where do you start to see the decline starting?  Or haven’t you acknowledged that if you give him credit for the good, you have to do the other side too.

If you judge that purely on league position (which is a silo attitude imho) then have you missed that we went backwards last season and more again this season?  Or do you choose to ignore that, because it doesn’t fit your agenda.

As for SL, he is not beyond criticism.  I’m grateful for what he’s done, but it’s not a charitable donation either.  There is a big grey area between “giving £150m to BCFC” and investing £150m in BCFC.  When he talked a couple of years back and said (paraphrased) when supporters have invested what I have they can have a bigger say, he showed that there is more to his work that charity!

Hey Fevs, thanks mate for the reply and I really respect you as a poster, so having this debate with you is going to be great.  I'm certainly not typecasting everyone who doesn't support MA just because he wears a suit, but its hard to write a post with every thought process in mind.  A lot of posts I see concerning MA are people calling him a snake and in this thread even a sewer rat, so I've gone with the majority. 

As you've said, his responsibility is to make sure the administration and strategy of the club is where it needs to be. Both of which I think he is doing a great job.  I think the first stage of where the club wants to be was to establish ourselves as a championship side.  People seem to have forgotten that this hasn't been the case in recent history! We need that as a club to then take that next step.  So as far as I'm concerned, he has achieved this.  

I agree that the recruitment of DH was a complete cock-up, but this by no means is a reason to sack someone.  He has done so much more.  I think people are being a bit short sighted when it comes to other areas of the business and the OOC players.  Going into next season, we are in an incredibly strong position compared to a majority of other teams in our league (10 of which are on transfer embargos).  Who do you think has helped put us in that position? Thats right, MA.  

I'm not saying that MA has been perfect, but he certainly isn't someone who deserves to be victimised as much as he does.  IMO MA leaving will be a huge mistake by the club.  Time will tell I guess.   

Edited by AshtonYate
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12 minutes ago, AshtonYate said:

Exactly.  You only have to look at the signing of DS to see that its the manager who has complete control.  If you think that DS was a MA signing, then you're deluded. 

Flip that on its head.  Should the person the head-coach / manager reports into (in this case the CEO) take any responsibility for any player the head-coach / manager brings in?  Are you saying “no”?  Wow.  Just let him abdicate any responsibility alongside his £527k plus pension per annum then.

Stop twisting the argument (same with you @SecretSam) to be about who is choosing players.  It’s a collective of people performing a process to acquire a player, where it’s fair to say there’s room for both improvement and consistency.

Why upon promoting himself COO, hasn’t the CEO put a Head of (player) Recruitment in place?  Ask yourself that?

Why did he get rid of the previous incumbent as one of his first tasks once he became CEO?  That person (Keith Burt) was brought in to provide the skills that JL and KD (Keith Dawe) didn’t have the skills nor time to do properly.  Ask yourself that?

Basically, he’s a control freak and he loves the kudos of a player signing - “I signed x and y”.  That’s not me saying he chose them.  That’s a very different argument.

But he’s a control freak who only likes the responsibility of things that are good.

Hes fully involved in the collective mix of recruitment, that’s why he hasn’t put a HoR in place.  It’s his team of recruitment analysts, his team of scouts (who have dwindled in numbers over the past 2 years), etc.  He runs those departments, but he doesn’t run them critically enough.  Don’t let him off the hook, nor others either.  It is an underperforming collective.

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19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As for SL, he is not beyond criticism.  I’m grateful for what he’s done, but it’s not a charitable donation either.  There is a big grey area between “giving £150m to BCFC” and investing £150m in BCFC.  When he talked a couple of years back and said (paraphrased) when supporters have invested what I have they can have a bigger say, he showed that there is more to his work that charity!

Couldn't agree more. I'm really grateful for all the investment SL has made with Bristol City and the holdings, but lets face facts, SL still owns the club, the stadium, and two training complexes in sought after areas of Bristol\North Somerset, plus some prime land which is due to have thousands of houses built on it. He also has the Rugby brand which is currently top of the league!

This isn't even taking into consideration the new indoor basketball area, multi-storey parking, hotel, and even more apartments. Plus all the advertising, season ticket revenue, concerts and sponsorship. They may not necessarily cover all the costs, but they all chip away at the overall spending and results in SL having to fork out a little less.

Yes SL is ploughing large amounts of cash in the club and the region, and as he mentioned on 3Peeps, there's probably going to be a nasty figure that he's covering for during the lockdown, which once again I'm grateful for. Percentage wise, the money he has compared to what money we have is probably a drop in the Ocean, I'd say his disposable income is more than enough to live on in comparison to lot of our fans.

All of the above is investments in City (as Davefevs rightly says) but if he was doing this as a charity gesture, he'd be blowing tens of millions by trying to flout the rules and regulations to get us into the Premier league by signing players we shouldn't rightly be signing and not bothering with the infrastructure or surrounding areas.

I guess the point I want to make is..............thanks SL, it is appreciated, but we (well, I) do understand that this is business opportunity for you also.

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25 minutes ago, AshtonYate said:

Exactly this Sam.  JL is off, you can tell he's had enough of it, and I don't blame him.  Imagine constantly reading from your fellow fans how much they disrespect you all of the time.  I really don't blame him.  When SL pulls out, then watch how screwed we are.  We mock Cardiff, Hull etc, but thats what people want it seems.  I think some supporters live in this fantasy land, but the reality of not having SL here with his money and stability will bite HARD. 

SL has employed/sanctioned all his managers and their pay, therefore all their signings and their salaries.

The shiny new stadium is not ours, we have no say on others who play in it or trade from it, we also had no say on its design, this is Steves investment.

The 100`s of millions that SL has "invested" is his millions and his investments, multiple poor management choices have got us to where we are today by....yes you guessed it SL.

So, how again are SL`s poor choices become the fans fault? fans have had no input in Steves choices so its his choices his fault NOT OURS.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, AshtonYate said:

Its totally not a wind-up I promise you.  We as supporters really don't have a say on footballing matters, nor does any other supporter of any football club around the world.  That isn't a Mark Ashton or SL issue.  But to say they don't listen to us, imo, simply isn't true.  I think we as fans sometimes forget that this football club do listen to us when it comes to player purchases.  Lets be honest, we were happy with the signings of most of the players we have.  SL went all out to get Kalas, Palmer, DaSilva etc; So they do listen. But they aren't going to break the bank to satisfy us all of the time. 

When I started to support this club, we were a league one / 2 yoyo club, but we are arguably in the best position that its ever been in! But yet, I honestly think there is more discontent and discontent again the board than there has ever been. 

Its like when we don't get our way, we always have to see heads roll.  Its like we never give it time.  The appointment of DH was a ballsup, but that happens in football.  Overall though, MA has had a pretty decent reign and I will be sad to see him leave as I don't think I could name anyone who could or would do a better job.  

I'm telling you now, get rid of MA & SL and watch us drop down the leagues. 

Where we differ is in our understanding of the function of this forum. For me it's a forum to discuss all things Bristol City with fellow supporters. The handful I know in person on here are committed, opinionated and highly intelligent but we have no power. Despite years of frustration we usually renew season tickets - although maybe not this year. No heads roll as a consequence of anything debated on here.

I've met Steve Lansdown several times, I've heard him speak about the club on many occasions. I've never had the impression that he gives a greater weight to supporter opinions that he does to his own. He has all the self-doubt you might expect of a self-made billionaire! He's a decent chap, I've enjoyed talking with him. I know a little about Mark Ashton, respected for his deal making as I understand it from someone who's encountered it. But the evidence of my own eyes and ears tells me that he is a terrible communicator!

Steve Lansdown has not been a very successful football club owner. We are marginally higher in the league rankings than when he came along. If he leaves soon he'll leave some infrastructure projects for which we should all be grateful...although I note that I sit in the same plastic bucket seat in the Dolman as I have for a decade or more. The view of the ground has improved as the entertainment on the pitch has diminished.

As for 'We never give it time...' - when I watched City troop off the pitch and out of the top flight at the end of the 1979-80 season I was a schoolboy (just). I'd not have believed you if you'd told me that 41 years and more or less an entire working lifetime later we'd not have returned.

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7 minutes ago, AshtonYate said:

Hey Fevs, thanks mate for the reply and I really respect you as a poster, so having this debate with you is going to be great.  I'm certainly not typecasting everyone who doesn't support MA just because he wears a suit, but its hard to write a post with thought process in mind.  A lot of posts I see concerning MA are people calling him a snake and in this thread even a sewer rat, so I've gone with the majority. 

As you've said, his responsibility is to make sure the administration and strategy of the club is where it needs to be. Both of which I think he is doing a great job.  I think the first stage of where the club wants to be was to establish ourselves as a championship side.  People seem to have forgotten that this hasn't been the case in recent history! We need that as a club to then take that next step.  So as far as I'm concerned, he has achieved this.  

I agree that the recruitment of DH was a complete cock-up, but this by no means is a reason to sack someone.  He has done so much more.  I think people are being a bit short sighted when it comes to other areas of the business and the OOC players.  Going into next season, we are in an incredibly strong position compared to a majority of other teams in our league (10 of which are on transfer embargos).  Who do you think has helped put us in that position? Thats right, MA.  

I'm not saying that MA has been perfect, but he certainly isn't someone who deserves to be victimised as much as he does.  IMO MA leaving will be a huge mistake by the club.  Time will tell I guess.   

I wouldn’t sack him.

I’d refocus his workload / responsibilities / remit....and his remuneration in the process.

£527k p.a. In a £16/17m turnover business is way out of kilter in the real world and the world of football both.  Let’s not forget that Ashton Gate Ltd are responsible for the other £12-15m of revenue.

Victimised?

Criticised? Yes.  Contract strategy (irrespective of Covid), recruitment, succession planning, etc.  Completely justified criticism imho.

 

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Flip that on its head.  Should the person the head-coach / manager reports into (in this case the CEO) take any responsibility for any player the head-coach / manager brings in?  Are you saying “no”?  Wow.  Just let him abdicate any responsibility alongside his £527k plus pension per annum then.

Stop twisting the argument (same with you @SecretSam) to be about who is choosing players.  It’s a collective of people performing a process to acquire a player, where it’s fair to say there’s room for both improvement and consistency.

Why upon promoting himself COO, hasn’t the CEO put a Head of (player) Recruitment in place?  Ask yourself that?

Why did he get rid of the previous incumbent as one of his first tasks once he became CEO?  That person (Keith Burt) was brought in to provide the skills that JL and KD (Keith Dawe) didn’t have the skills nor time to do properly.  Ask yourself that?

Basically, he’s a control freak and he loves the kudos of a player signing - “I signed x and y”.  That’s not me saying he chose them.  That’s a very different argument.

But he’s a control freak who only likes the responsibility of things that are good.

Hes fully involved in the collective mix of recruitment, that’s why he hasn’t put a HoR in place.  It’s his team of recruitment analysts, his team of scouts (who have dwindled in numbers over the past 2 years), etc.  He runs those departments, but he doesn’t run them critically enough.  Don’t let him off the hook, nor others either.  It is an underperforming collective.

With the greatest of respect, all of that is simply speculation isn't it?  I'm not really sure why his pension has anything to do with it, I'm really not interested in that, but its another stick to beat him with I guess. 

Again, you don't really know why Keith Burt was replaced.  I don't mean this this argumentative way, but do you work within / have you worked with that team? I know you have loads of stats, but have you actually worked within a recruitment team within a football club?  Whats the difference between HoR and the analysts below him? Genuine question. 
 

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The notion that SL can't be criticised because of his investment in the club is absurd. Whilst he's done an incredible job of improving the club off the pitch, he's failed in his ultimate aim of getting the club in the top flight. It's not all down to SL, but he has to be held partly responsible for the position of the club.

It could be a hell of a lot worse, and I'm grateful for all Steve's done, but we've spent the past 13 years trying and failing to better reaching the play-off final whilst spending a decent wedge in the process. A reset is needed.

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Just now, KegCity said:

The notion that SL can't be criticised because of his investment in the club is absurd. Whilst he's done an incredible job of improving the club off the pitch, he's failed in his ultimate aim of getting the club in the top flight. It's not all down to SL, but he has to be held partly responsible for the position of the club.

It could be a hell of a lot worse, and I'm grateful for all Steve's done, but we've spent the past 13 years trying and failing to better reaching the play-off final whilst spending a decent wedge in the process. A reset is needed.

I'm not saying he can't be criticised, but the amount of criticism he gets IMO is WAY over the top.  The same with MA.  

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1 hour ago, AshtonYate said:

 

When I started to support this club, we were a league one / 2 yoyo club, but we are arguably in the best position that its ever been in! But yet, I honestly think there is more discontent and discontent again the board than there has ever been. 

When was this? Given only 4 years of our history have been spent in the bottom division of English Professional Football to which we have only been relegated ONCE? Are you confusing us with a different club I can think of that play in the Bristol area?

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, phantom said:

Sorry, but an opinion like this shows how blinkered you are about things around the club

Thats fine, and I'm happy to be accused of being blinkered, but I'd like some meat to the bone so I can at least argue my case. I'm certainly not saying I'm right, but lets at least have a debate about it. 

So, I respect your opinion, but why do you think that? I'm all up for having my mind changed.  I'm certainly not arrogant enough to think I right and everyone else is wrong.  

Edited by AshtonYate
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3 minutes ago, AshtonYate said:

With the greatest of respect, all of that is simply speculation isn't it?  I'm not really sure why his pension has anything to do with it, I'm really not interested in that, but its another stick to beat him with I guess. 

Again, you don't really know why Keith Burt was replaced.  I don't mean this this argumentative way, but do you work within / have you worked with that team? I know you have loads of stats, but have you actually worked within a recruitment team within a football club?  Whats the difference between HoR and the analysts below him? Genuine question. 
 

It’s in the published accounts.  It’s a lot of money!

I know people who are / have.  We have a team of technical data analysts, crunching numbers, watching video.  One of whom is titled head of recruitment analysis (not HoR).  He is not the HoR, just runs the team of analysts, was one himself.  There is no other Head of in that area of the club....Mark Ashton fulfils that.

The HoR often is the Director of Football.  In Keith Burt’s case, he ran the playing budget, negotiated contracts, signed players etc.  He worked with the manager to identify the requirements of the players needed and directed the scouts and analysts (more about eyes than data though) to identify those players, including doing that himself.  All from Keith’s mouth.

Keith Burt was replaced because Mark Ashton took on that role.

As one of our scouts asked at the time “what are your qualifications to do that role Mark”?

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