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Our Fans are the problem, not Mark Ashton or Steve Lansdown


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7 hours ago, IAmNick said:

I lived in Leeds for a couple of years and when we get posts on here saying how mean our fans were for booing at a game and being entitled it always makes me laugh in comparison to the fans I knew up there. Our team get an incredibly easy ride in comparison.

I remember a few years ago us being 2-0 up at Elland road and Leeds being boo'd off at half time. Came back out and I'm pretty sure it finished 2-2.

Down here we'd have been quietly tutting to each other before shuffling off to queue for the bogs and squint at the half time results.

Looking at the state of affairs for the last few years I think we're perhaps just too nice... So maybe it is partly the fans "fault" but not for the reasons the OP has said!

I think Leeds fans (rightly so really) see themselves as a PL club. I think at the moment most fans accept we are at about the right sort of level. I reckon if we were L1 (which is probably the equivalent of the way Leeds fans see this league) our fans would give the team a tougher time when struggling. 

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While I understand the arguments surrounding the nature of Bristol as a location and city and what it has achieved collectively in the past, I can't help but think, the one single factor in our history that holds us back is that were not a very well run club.

Every time we seem to be on the cusp of success we always seem to do something to conspire to bollocks it all up.

I was only a baby in the 70's but we all well know the boardroom decisions that lead to the loss of our top-flight status and subsequently almost the loss of the whole club.

We claw our way back to the second tier thanks to the hard work and dedication of people like Terry Cooper and the chairmanship of Des Williams and then what? We bollocks it all up with the reform group and all the financial misconduct around the Atyeo stand while we fall apart on the pitch.

In comes Scott Davidson and off we go again, a well meaning bloke and a fan of the club. We do progress and return to tier 2 but hey ho, we fall apart again and after a succession of terrible managerial appointments (Bennie, The former chief scout and the Clueless), Davidson falls out with the rest of the board and round we go again.

Danny Wilson comes and goes leaving some great footballing memories on the pitch but a bunch drunken lunatics off it. 

That bloke from Brandon tool hire comes and goes, we break the spirit of one of the best footballing servants we've ever had, then we almost almost achieved the dream....

And....

We slowly destroy ourselves again, poor signings, poor managerial choices and the inevitable relegation.

So back. We build yet again...

More success, back in to tier two yet again. It goes pair shaped so in comes LJ.

We start moving in the right direction. We beat Man Utd. We give Man City a good game. We are in the top two. We desperately, desperately need to be bold in the Jan 18 transfer window but.... Nah, of course we don't do it and fall away again.

The latest high water mark before we gradually fall apart.

Don't get me wrong. I don't for one second believe Steve and the fam don't love this club and that they desperately want to see us in the top flight. The fact of the matter is, to be successful you need to hire the best people. We have shown now for over 40 years, we aren't great at doing that.

Until we get all of our ducks in a row both on and off the pitch we will always find a way to cock it all up.

It's not the fans, it's not the history of Bristol or the city of Bristol itself that is to blame for our lack of success.

It's purely down to the fact that we have never capitalised on the success we've had when we've had it by having the right people in the right place at the right time.

Edited by Midlands Robin
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i like that post a lot midlands Robin. just needs a bit on the end, SL has employed MA  to oversee the recruiting process for said operatives. they have let us down under MAs doing so surely this failure is a result of his work?

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19 hours ago, Midlands Robin said:

While I understand the arguments surrounding the nature of Bristol as a location and city and what it has achieved collectively in the past, I can't help but think, the one single factor in our history that holds us back is that were not a very well run club.

Every time we seem to be on the cusp of success we always seem to do something to conspire to bollocks it all up.

I was only a baby in the 70's but we all well know the boardroom decisions that lead to the loss of our top-flight status and subsequently almost the loss of the whole club.

We claw our way back to the second tier thanks to the hard work and dedication of people like Terry Cooper and the chairmanship of Des Williams and then what? We bollocks it all up with the reform group and all the financial misconduct around the Atyeo stand while we fall apart on the pitch.

In comes Scott Davidson and off we go again, a well meaning bloke and a fan of the club. We do progress and return to tier 2 but hey ho, we fall apart again and after a succession of terrible managerial appointments (Bennie, The former chief scout and the Clueless), Davidson falls out with the rest of the board and round we go again.

Danny Wilson comes and goes leaving some great footballing memories on the pitch but a bunch drunken lunatics off it. 

That bloke from Brandon tool hire comes and goes, we break the spirit of one of the best footballing servants we've ever had, then we almost almost achieved the dream....

And....

We slowly destroy ourselves again, poor signings, poor managerial choices and the inevitable relegation.

So back. We build yet again...

More success, back in to tier two yet again. It goes pair shaped so in comes LJ.

We start moving in the right direction. We beat Man Utd. We give Man City a good game. We are in the top two. We desperately, desperately need to be bold in the Jan 18 transfer window but.... Nah, of course we don't do it and fall away again.

The latest high water mark before we gradually fall apart.

Don't get me wrong. I don't for one second believe Steve and the fam don't love this club and that they desperately want to see us in the top flight. The fact of the matter is, to be successful you need to hire the best people. We have shown now for over 40 years, we aren't great at doing that.

Until we get all of our ducks in a row both on and off the pitch we will always find a way to cock it all up.

It's not the fans, it's not the history of Bristol or the city of Bristol itself that is to blame for our lack of success.

It's purely down to the fact that we have never capitalised on the success we've had when we've had it by having the right people in the right place at the right time.

I agree, this is exactly what happens with our club, no denying it at all. Which is what I hanker to regarding Bristol and the region as a whole. The people that run the show are not as driven and knowledgeable as with other clubs, just like the other things within Bristol, so they get overturned by the next mediocre group/person that comes along thinking they can change it.

People go on about Lansdown being an astute businessman and, I can't really argue with that, as there are bound to be things in business that he's good at but in my opinion, Lansdown's role was more to do with keeping the business model nice and tidy and filing the forms at the right time and sorting the accounts, which is after all what he is, an accountant. While the hard nosed Hargreaves pushed the business to it's massive success and continued to do so when Lansdown left the business.

There's no denying that he's made a lot of mistakes in running BCFC which would prove your theory but, this time, there's been nobody to challenge him and change the course of the club, into another chapter of mediocrity, which is all he's achieved in his 20 odd years in charge.

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3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Four day game, how did it end up?

😉

 

53 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

😂 Good win. Nice to win there/beat them.

3 hours ago, 77 punk said:

incredible stand bartlett and gregory they won by four wickets

Not another dodgy pitch was it, lads 😉😃

NB. 5 of Surrey's top 6 are Test batsmen!

Edited by Merrick's Marvels
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On 08/04/2021 at 13:42, Davefevs said:

OP.

If you genuinely think my view of club employee performance is based on the fact they wear a suit, talk in a Corporate way, etc, then you’ve seriously misjudged where my view comes from.  I expect him to wear a suit, I expect him to talk in a way according to his role.  If you think I’ve joined a witch hunt, then check the analysis and investigation I’ve done.  If that happens to tie up nicely with what others have found out too, some through direct experience of dealing with him, then it’s gonna inform abd influence other posters’ views too, that’s how things work!

I also expect him to take responsibility for the delivering the strategy of the owner through the board (of which he is a director) to the various areas of the football club, and on the playing side through the manager / head-coach,

He performs some of those aspects well, administration of a football operation, representing SL’s view at the EFL.

He fails on some too....contract strategy, recruitment, succession planning of staff and players....and those also have a huge bearing on the overall financial strategy of sustainability.  We are nowhere near sustainable.

If you want to give him credit for a successful period, where do you start to see the decline starting?  Or haven’t you acknowledged that if you give him credit for the good, you have to do the other side too.

If you judge that purely on league position (which is a silo attitude imho) then have you missed that we went backwards last season and more again this season?  Or do you choose to ignore that, because it doesn’t fit your agenda.

As for SL, he is not beyond criticism.  I’m grateful for what he’s done, but it’s not a charitable donation either.  There is a big grey area between “giving £150m to BCFC” and investing £150m in BCFC.  When he talked a couple of years back and said (paraphrased) when supporters have invested what I have they can have a bigger say, he showed that there is more to his work that charity!

There is a lot of truth in this @Davefevsof course but I think the OP @ashtonvalemakes some very good points re-Ashton too. Isn't the logical conclusion that a new beefed up 'head of recruitment'/DOF responsible for setting the footballing strategy for the club (similar to how you describe Keith Burt's role and the successful set up at Norwich too) coming in and reporting in to Ashton would put most ppl's concerns to bed letting MA focus on negotiations/finances/corporate side that he has seemingly done very well at since joining? - It's a set up Pearson enjoys too historically of course.

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I've not been on here for a proper look for a few days, but without discussing the specifics of the impending departure, why isn't the Snake Oil Salesman's Ipswich move being discussed?  I read that the club have leant on the mods to not have it discussed, but it that just hearsay or is that true.  If so, why?  I understand this may not get as complete an answer as I maybe desire, but some general indication would be welcome. :)

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2 hours ago, WirralRobin said:

There is a lot of truth in this @Davefevsof course but I think the OP @ashtonvalemakes some very good points re-Ashton too. Isn't the logical conclusion that a new beefed up 'head of recruitment'/DOF responsible for setting the footballing strategy for the club (similar to how you describe Keith Burt's role and the successful set up at Norwich too) coming in and reporting in to Ashton would put most ppl's concerns to bed letting MA focus on negotiations/finances/corporate side that he has seemingly done very well at since joining? - It's a set up Pearson enjoys too historically of course.

All I did was counter the OP’s view that “us fans” (for I am one of them) think a certain way about MA because he (paraphrased) wears a suit.C1F7D732-B89B-4AC1-B90B-77A7B6D28F83.thumb.jpeg.21f96c044100ef430fe32d53725859f2.jpeg

I agree re your “logical conclusion”.....but then the CEO’s role is diminished from what he does today.  Is he willing to take a pay cut to cover the salary of the a DoF / HoR and his movement into true oversight of the strategy rather than direct involvement in the recruitment element?  None of these “other clubs” have a CEO so heavily involved in recruitment....they all have a specialist.  We don’t.

You'll see I’ve been pretty consistent in my backing of MA’s administration skills.

If you put up a post like the OP did, you’ve gotta be prepared for some challenge.

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On 08/04/2021 at 12:26, CheddarReds said:

You've said it yourself - Ashton overseas the recruitment team. If there is no philosophy for us to recruit with, the recruitment will be more scattergun (which is what we've seen). The result of that, amongst other things, is no coherent style on the pitch and an unbalanced squad both of which have really come to a head this season, but it's been a problem that's developed over multiple seasons.

That's without considering the contract situations of the squad etc which Ashton is also responsible for. 

Ashton has to take responsibility for that in my view. 

For me LJ also takes his share of blame in this regard, all soundbites confirm he had final say, and I'd actually go onto say that between LJ and Holden, MA's recruitment would've been scatter gun due to the formers clubs in bag approach, and the latters inexperience. 

Saying that, he put himself in a turd position by appointing Holden in the first place. 

Added to that, our recruitment on the whole for the past two years has been desperately poor. Only decent business in that time has been Massengo and Nagy. 

Add in the NDAs at Watford, the shit show with Boothroyd,  to City, kicking out people who were huge cores at the club - then appointing his own placeholders, Oxford aside, Ashton's precursor roles to City don't exactly shine with brilliance. 

Ultimately, Lansdown only has himself to blame re his current standing, he's swung between treating fans as consumers one second to us being a core the next. At the very least if he appointed a CEO with a track record, or a DoF, a lot less fans would have any ammunition to bash the club with. 

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