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Walsh - Will We See Him In A City Shirt Again?


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49 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I've no doubt he is a talented enough player to have a successful career in the Championship and he's one of the very last of our current quad I would wish to see leave in terms of ability and attitude.

 

I heard they are still looking for his quad..........................

Edited by Numero Uno
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Might not be a popular opinion but I'd like the club to start being a bit more hard nosed with our youngsters in general.

Walsh joined us 4 years ago with Johnson saying he was ready to come into the first team immediately from what I recall. Now here we are with what, under 20 appearances for us 3 and a half seasons later and we can't decide if he should get another contract.

I think he's a decent player and may go on to do good things... but I'd like a smaller squad of players who are exactly what we want, and ready to play for us (or a capable young backup). Not a mixture of players who we're holding on to because they might be good enough one day at some point in the future - sounds like a recipe for yet another large and incoherent squad to me. Other option is endlessly send them out on loan but then they're being coached for a different system in their early 20s by perhaps L1 or L2 coaches which also isn't ideal.

Based on that it's a no for me. The club has to start being bold and accept it's going to make some mistakes in my opinion.

Edited by IAmNick
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Looks like I’m in minority but I’d keep. Been a weird season for him & others, Pearson likes him too I think & chums with Williams. Massengo, a fit Walsh & Williams would be a good midfield in my opinion. 

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19 minutes ago, Harry said:

However, whilst I think he’s a good player, I just don’t get positives vibes on this one. 
 

 

20 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think he’s a good footballer, and as Cowshed pointed out, he showed in 1 game what we’ve missed in midfield all season. 
 

I changed the context of your post. The latter is a judgement on quality. 

21 minutes ago, Harry said:


I wonder if both parties are willing to move on and chalk this one up as ‘didn’t work out for whatever reason’. 
 

Because Mr Johnson did not value the players qualities when the player was not affected by ill fortune. 

23 minutes ago, Harry said:


I’m 80/20 in the ‘let’s move on’ camp. However the 20% doubt increases to a 100% doubt if we have a certain flannel-man recruiting his replacement. 

 Walsh has barely played for BCFC but there you are suggesting the role the player did not fill in seasons needs a replacement. 

There is always some doubt in recruitment. Unless the player is not going to be match fit again there is less risk here v recruitment. He has been about the place, his character, his mindset can all be judged by his here ... The player is talented and here.  

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21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nick - it’s a really tough call.  NP obviously likes him.

I just haven’t seen enough of him in a City shirt.  Depends on wage he wants too.

Yeah very tough, I'm not 100% sure either way.

I guess it's two questions for NP really though: Do I like him (is he good enough), and does he fit into my plans?

I think in the past we've had and currently have a lot of players who only answer "yes" to one of those. That's what I'd like us to start moving past now.

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12 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

I would offer a pay as you play deal...clearly a crock

This is one of my favourite ideas that's in basically every transfer thread too. No idea what it even means in reality!

Pay him per appearance only? Does he still train with us and stuff non stop?

Low basic salary and stacked appearance bonuses?

Almost never sounds ideal for either the player or the club in my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

This is one of my favourite ideas that's in basically every transfer thread too. No idea what it even means in reality!

Pay him per appearance only? Does he still train with us and stuff non stop?

Low basic salary and stacked appearance bonuses?

Almost never sounds ideal for either the player or the club in my opinion.

I don’t know what it means either but it is also one of my favourite quotes so thought I would throw it out their 

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11 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

This is one of my favourite ideas that's in basically every transfer thread too. No idea what it even means in reality!

Pay him per appearance only? Does he still train with us and stuff non stop?

Low basic salary and stacked appearance bonuses?

Almost never sounds ideal for either the player or the club in my opinion.

You can see that leading to resentment. Say you are 2-0 up with 5 to play and someone like Walsh is sub and on £5k basic and £5k appearance money and the Manager brings an 18 year old on for some experience instead.........you could make it that if you are in the squad you get the money I suppose?

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I expect I'm 100% wrong with this thought but if our fitness/physio or medical team are a contributing factor to our significant injury problems, and this isn't changed then we could let these guys go for free who then go on to their next club injury free and do really well.  How frustrating would that be?

Also, how attractive does this make us to the next incoming lot? Not sure I'd want to go to a club where my career could be at risk.  

Could this be a factor playing on Nigel's mind as to whether he wants to stay?

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Offer him a deal for sure. 
Unfortunately all this ‘injury prone’ talk has to be attributed to our failing medical team and their processes. 
There have been far too many similar injuries to call players injury prone. 

Poor rehab is clear for many players which has to be a contributing factor.

Let him go and you just know we’ll see him back running games against us for Coventry. 

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To me, this is the scenario:

- Definite injury concerns but mitigated by him not being the only one who’s suffered from Andy Rolls and his hamstring funhouse. No serious injuries before this season and our medical team

- Clearly can perform at level below, and definite potential to do so at this level

- If we release, would likely get interest at this level from lower half teams

- However, if we offer a contract in view of the compensation issue, and clubs at this levels parlous finances, said lower half teams unlikely to be able to fund wages and compo

He’s out of contract, but we hold the cards here. And he won’t be the only player across clubs this applies to. As soon as we offer a deal, any offer on the table from an English club will disappear because of who they are. In view of the injury and unproven at this level nature, all he has in for him are lower half cash strapped clubs.

So, offer the deal. Protect the upside potential and see how he goes with a real medical team after the current incumbents hopefully sod off to Suffolk

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1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

To me, this is the scenario:

- Definite injury concerns but mitigated by him not being the only one who’s suffered from Andy Rolls and his hamstring funhouse. No serious injuries before this season and our medical team

- Clearly can perform at level below, and definite potential to do so at this level

- If we release, would likely get interest at this level from lower half teams

- However, if we offer a contract in view of the compensation issue, and clubs at this levels parlous finances, said lower half teams unlikely to be able to fund wages and compo

He’s out of contract, but we hold the cards here. And he won’t be the only player across clubs this applies to. As soon as we offer a deal, any offer on the table from an English club will disappear because of who they are. In view of the injury and unproven at this level nature, all he has in for him are lower half cash strapped clubs.

So, offer the deal. Protect the upside potential and see how he goes with a real medical team after the current incumbents hopefully sod off to Suffolk

You have to offer a contract commensurate to his current deal to allow compo.  No idea how much he’s on, but there were rumours of £9k per week.

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I am seriously worried that “we” have permanently damaged some players to the point they may no longer be able to return to a playing career of any note.

If we can’t protect Walsh, O’Dowda, Williams etc from recurring injuries when we should be taking their rehab as gently as possible, I fear we may have damaged them for the rest of their career.

Lawsuits?

Not at all. They are just crap.

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24 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Offer him a deal for sure. 
Unfortunately all this ‘injury prone’ talk has to be attributed to our failing medical team and their processes. 
There have been far too many similar injuries to call players injury prone. 

Poor rehab is clear for many players which has to be a contributing factor.

Let him go and you just know we’ll see him back running games against us for Coventry. 

If you don't mind me saying that is bollycocks. You can't blame the medics for someone getting injured.

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10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You have to offer a contract commensurate to his current deal to allow compo.  No idea how much he’s on, but there were rumours of £9k per week.

Wouldn’t surprise me Dave - signed for £1m and that would put him at around a middling champ wage. If we say that, then it’s a £0.5m a season commitment. If we offer a deal, we’d get that in compo if it’s turned down. If he signs, it’d cost more than £1m in wages and fee to replace over a two year deal, even in the current market.
 

I get the injury concern, but if we viewed him as a free agent and passed a rigorous medical we’d take that deal. 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

 

 

I changed the context of your post. The latter is a judgement on quality. 

Because Mr Johnson did not value the players qualities when the player was not affected by ill fortune. 

 Walsh has barely played for BCFC but there you are suggesting the role the player did not fill in seasons needs a replacement. 

There is always some doubt in recruitment. Unless the player is not going to be match fit again there is less risk here v recruitment. He has been about the place, his character, his mindset can all be judged by his here ... The player is talented and here.  

Sorry; probs slightly misunderstood. My 80/20 inkling isn’t based on my personal preference, more the situation that is presented. A player that’s hardly featured in 4 years, probably hasn’t had the happiest time here, out of contract and unlikely to be offered a larger one. I just think is weighted 80/20 in the ‘he’ll be gone’ camp. 
Personally, I think he’s a good player and I’d probably offer him another year. I just think both parties won’t come to an agreement (Walsh likely not overly happy here and wanting an improved deal, Club not seeing the value in an improved deal). 

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Not bothered one way or the other.  Just remember that he is unproven at this level.

Sure NP could find better.  

However, I trust NP to make the right call.  Just hope he is allowed to make the call, that’s all
 

 

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14 minutes ago, BigTone said:

If you don't mind me saying that is bollycocks. You can't blame the medics for someone getting injured.

Really? I think season ending/season long injuries has a lot to do with the medical team and their inept training or recovery methods. 
You dont get the horrendous amounts of injuries weve had over the last 3 seasons due to bad luck. 

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6 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Really? I think season ending/season long injuries has a lot to do with the medical team and their inept training or recovery methods. 
You dont get the horrendous amounts of injuries weve had over the last 3 seasons due to bad luck. 

Completely so.

When we beat Birmingham 3-0 in what turned out to be Karanka’s last game in charge, it was reported that they had EVERY SINGLE player fit & available to play.

I think our record high this season is 16 out for 1 game & it has usually been double figures, this is not down to “bad luck”, that is losing one or two, this is structural failure.

The blame lies with the medical team, the strength & conditioning guy & on occasion with Holden for his brainless decisions like playing Joe Williams twice in 5 days (including a meaningless FA Cup game) after so long out, picking Tommy Rowe at Derby after he limped off in the first half in the previous game & starting Jack Hunt at Luton after getting injured v Wycombe.

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7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Completely so.

When we beat Birmingham 3-0 in what turned out to be Karanka’s last game in charge, it was reported that they had EVERY SINGLE player fit & available to play.

I think our record high this season is 16 out for 1 game & it has usually been double figures, this is not down to “bad luck”, that is losing one or two, this is structural failure.

The blame lies with the medical team, the strength & conditioning guy & on occasion with Holden for his brainless decisions like playing Joe Williams twice in 5 days (including a meaningless FA Cup game) after so long out, picking Tommy Rowe at Derby after he limped off in the first half in the previous game & starting Jack Hunt at Luton after getting injured v Wycombe.

Agree, far too many out to be just bad luck.

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41 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Really? I think season ending/season long injuries has a lot to do with the medical team and their inept training or recovery methods. 
You dont get the horrendous amounts of injuries weve had over the last 3 seasons due to bad luck. 

Oh dear oh dear, the conspiracy theories have returned and are worse than ever. 

Edited by BigTone
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48 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Really? I think season ending/season long injuries has a lot to do with the medical team and their inept training or recovery methods. 
You dont get the horrendous amounts of injuries weve had over the last 3 seasons due to bad luck. 

Agreed there is a serious problem in the medical room.

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7 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Oh dear oh dear, the conspiracy theories have returned and are worse than ever. 

Conspiracy for having so many injuries. Give it a rest there is clearly a problem and it cannot be down to bad luck.

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19 minutes ago, miloemily said:

Conspiracy for having so many injuries. Give it a rest there is clearly a problem and it cannot be down to bad luck.

The conspiracy is that it is the medical team are causing the injuries for gods sake. They treat injuries as that is their job.. Do you blame your doctor if you hurt yourself and need treatment? If you are going to blame anyone then it is down to the conditioning of the players FFS

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3 hours ago, IAmNick said:

Might not be a popular opinion but I'd like the club to start being a bit more hard nosed with our youngsters in general.

Walsh joined us 4 years ago with Johnson saying he was ready to come into the first team immediately from what I recall. Now here we are with what, under 20 appearances for us 3 and a half seasons later and we can't decide if he should get another contract.

I think he's a decent player and may go on to do good things... but I'd like a smaller squad of players who are exactly what we want, and ready to play for us (or a capable young backup). Not a mixture of players who we're holding on to because they might be good enough one day at some point in the future - sounds like a recipe for yet another large and incoherent squad to me. Other option is endlessly send them out on loan but then they're being coached for a different system in their early 20s by perhaps L1 or L2 coaches which also isn't ideal.

Based on that it's a no for me. The club has to start being bold and accept it's going to make some mistakes in my opinion.

Absolutely tore up league one last season and rightly deserved a go in the Championship. If it wasn't for injuries he'd of been a starter for us this season. Unfair to purely look at games for City, he's young, got a natural ability and just been unfortunate. I'd say he's exactly the the type of player we need to build squads around, he will only improve. 

1 minute ago, BigTone said:

The conspiracy is that it is the medical team are causing the injuries for gods sake. They treat injuries as that is their job.. Do you blame your doctor if you hurt yourself and need treatment? If you are going to blame anyone then it is down to the conditioning of the players FFS

If my doctor misdiagnosed me or gave me the wrong treatment then yes I'd blame them. 

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