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Sam Bell - Contract Extension 2024


Lrrr

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48 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Would love him to be involved but we don't want to get to January and say what a waste having him playing 23s football for last 4-5 months.

I don’t think it is a waste to train with the first team at his age for a few months. We have seen our players go to the L2 or even conference and get minimal minutes. Bit easier to keep confidence when you aren’t getting into a champ side but not getting into a l2 side at his age could break confidence a bit. Let him train at a high level facility and fight for a spot first. 

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10 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah fair enough. I'm sort of unsure on it, I guess it comes down to how good Pearson thinks he is now.

If that's the case then great 

I just think us loaning out players is a bit broken at the minute. Jonny Smith, Freddy Hinds, James Morton and more. We seem intent on loaning them at every level under the championship. Think in the case of Smith, he was good enough to get a chan e in the first team. Just don’t want that to happen to all the young players. 

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Loaning out is part of a filtering system to find the level that a young player can cope with. There will always be a few that can adapt to the Championship earlier but as NP says that has its own risks. Likewise the majority will not make it to the first team and that does not constitute a failure on the clubs part as long as the best come through. One would expect most of the young players to go out on loan next season to get games at a competitive standard well above under-21’s but with finances shaping up as they are ‘blooding’ a few now may give Nigel more options for next season.

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Would love him to be involved but we don't want to get to January and say what a waste having him playing 23s football for last 4-5 months.

I think him being given a name tag for a locker and being moved to the first team section of the website indicate his standing with the squad, assuming Sam Pearson and Ryley also have a lockers. Get the feeling those 3 (or at minimum the two Sam's) could be around the squad next season

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1 hour ago, Johnny Musicworks said:

Loaning out is part of a filtering system to find the level that a young player can cope with. There will always be a few that can adapt to the Championship earlier but as NP says that has its own risks. Likewise the majority will not make it to the first team and that does not constitute a failure on the clubs part as long as the best come through. One would expect most of the young players to go out on loan next season to get games at a competitive standard well above under-21’s but with finances shaping up as they are ‘blooding’ a few now may give Nigel more options for next season.

I agree. I am just saying loans seem to have been excuses not to blood players at all I feel. Loans also work I just think we go too far at times. I think there is a benefit to training players with our squad and our style of play.

With Bell, I don’t see a need to rush him out on loan in July to a team like Cheltenham for him to possibly only be an impact sub. Keep him in our too class facilities. Let him train with and against better players for half a season and get some minutes in the cup. Let him get a bit stronger in the gym. He’d be better prepared for a loan in January with teams knowing their needs for their situation. He is 18 and I don’t think there a huge rush next season to get him 35-40 games. 

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12 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I agree. I am just saying loans seem to have been excuses not to blood players at all I feel. Loans also work I just think we go too far at times. I think there is a benefit to training players with our squad and our style of play.

With Bell, I don’t see a need to rush him out on loan in July to a team like Cheltenham for him to possibly only be an impact sub. Keep him in our too class facilities. Let him train with and against better players for half a season and get some minutes in the cup. Let him get a bit stronger in the gym. He’d be better prepared for a loan in January with teams knowing their needs for their situation. He is 18 and I don’t think there a huge rush next season to get him 35-40 games. 

I guess some of this was in my piece “one loan too many” last summer Joe.

We have an imperfect u23 system (not City, football in general) and loan rules.  That influences the track we take for our youngsters.

Our u23s (age wise) are generally out on loan.

Our u23 squad is predominantly u20s (age wise).

We entrust the final stage of a future 1st teamer to another club / manager.

I don’t have all the answers, but those are some of the problems we need to solve.

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14 hours ago, Taz said:

This is where I now start feeling old, because I wasn't much older than him when I was watching his dad in his prime!! :ermm:

 

I feel your pain!

It hit home to me when I was watching a FGR game on TV and Mark Cooper`s son was playing. I was watching the grandson of a player I saw play.

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1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

I just think us loaning out players is a bit broken at the minute. Jonny Smith, Freddy Hinds, James Morton and more. We seem intent on loaning them at every level under the championship. Think in the case of Smith, he was good enough to get a chan e in the first team. Just don’t want that to happen to all the young players. 

The converse though are Vyner, O’Leary & possibly Cundy.

Some of those we loan out simply won’t make it, proof of whether they do so is if they end up playing regularly in The Championship for someone else.

No sign of that with anyone so far.

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31 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I agree. I am just saying loans seem to have been excuses not to blood players at all I feel. Loans also work I just think we go too far at times. I think there is a benefit to training players with our squad and our style of play.

With Bell, I don’t see a need to rush him out on loan in July to a team like Cheltenham for him to possibly only be an impact sub. Keep him in our too class facilities. Let him train with and against better players for half a season and get some minutes in the cup. Let him get a bit stronger in the gym. He’d be better prepared for a loan in January with teams knowing their needs for their situation. He is 18 and I don’t think there a huge rush next season to get him 35-40 games. 

With Smith, was he good enough to get a chance with the first team..... Or was he good enough to get a chance with the first team due to our lack of options out wide due to negligible squad balance in that position and needing someone to play there now? 

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Would be even better if he was in our first team and scored 20 goals! ???

Here's a question...When did an 18 year old last score double figures for us?

The answer could be never!

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Just now, Lrrr said:

He was however 19 for most of that season with his birthday in October

I think that still counts. Starting the season age 18 is the only way you can do it.

Can't think of any others...?

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3 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Well its not if you make you first team debut at 17

Hey, if you can think of a City player that started the season age 17 and scored double figure goals that season, I'll gladly change the rules!

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2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

The converse though are Vyner, O’Leary & possibly Cundy.

Some of those we loan out simply won’t make it, proof of whether they do so is if they end up playing regularly in The Championship for someone else.

No sign of that with anyone so far.

No doubt. Just don’t think it needs to be endless loans is what I am saying. Bell probably needs a loan but also think we can keep him in a professional setting and get him more ready for a loan in January. 

 

2 hours ago, Lrrr said:

With Smith, was he good enough to get a chance with the first team..... Or was he good enough to get a chance with the first team due to our lack of options out wide due to negligible squad balance in that position and needing someone to play there now? 

I think he did well enough on his loans to get minutes for us to find out. His loan at Swindon was productive in L1 before we sold him. Adelakun had some promising moments mixed with some bad ones after we recalled him from Hull. Think we lose sight of some with loan after loan. I have no qualms with loans but we need to give players a better platform for our first team imo. How was Jonny Smith supposed to feel comfortable playing for us when he had probably 5-6 different managers at 4-5 different clubs over a 4 season span. I’d bet he becomes at least a serviceable championship winger in the near future. 

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3 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I agree. I am just saying loans seem to have been excuses not to blood players at all I feel. Loans also work I just think we go too far at times. I think there is a benefit to training players with our squad and our style of play.

With Bell, I don’t see a need to rush him out on loan in July to a team like Cheltenham for him to possibly only be an impact sub. Keep him in our too class facilities. Let him train with and against better players for half a season and get some minutes in the cup. Let him get a bit stronger in the gym. He’d be better prepared for a loan in January with teams knowing their needs for their situation. He is 18 and I don’t think there a huge rush next season to get him 35-40 games. 

Well said.

In the dim and distant past when loans and even subs, didn't think exist, all younger players got around half a dozen games per season for two or three seasons. Trevor Tainton a good example.

Those who came in and stayed were those who were good enough at 17 to 18, eg Gow, Derrick and Merrick. Didn't stop them making mistakes or having an off day even then. And the wise heads of the team helped them through the tough times, as it should be.

Nowadays, these young lads don't have to start a game because with at least three subs, a chance every game for one to get the last ten/ fifteen minutes.

That is where LJ got it wrong. It was All, in side all of the time until they got banished for being young and prone to make mistakes. Or nothing as in out on loan.

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I guess some of this was in my piece “one loan too many” last summer Joe.

We have an imperfect u23 system (not City, football in general) and loan rules.  That influences the track we take for our youngsters.

Our u23s (age wise) are generally out on loan.

Our u23 squad is predominantly u20s (age wise).

We entrust the final stage of a future 1st teamer to another club / manager.

I don’t have all the answers, but those are some of the problems we need to solve.

Interesting that in the Watford U23s they have Maurizio Pochettino (20);son of Mauricio, Henry Wise(21) son of  Dennis, Mitchell Bergkamp(22) son of Dennis,  
 

 

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31 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

No doubt. Just don’t think it needs to be endless loans is what I am saying. Bell probably needs a loan but also think we can keep him in a professional setting and get him more ready for a loan in January. 

 

No argument from me.

We didn’t ever loan Lloyd Kelly out & definitely got it right in bringing Semenyo into the fold earlier than most.

Those who end up with loan after loan & those who struggle to get games then set alarm bells off with me, obvious that was happening with Hinds & Morton looks to be a concern, too.

At some point we just need to make a decision, personally I think we are there with Wollacott.

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3 hours ago, E.G.Red said:

Interesting that in the Watford U23s they have Maurizio Pochettino (20);son of Mauricio, Henry Wise(21) son of  Dennis, Mitchell Bergkamp(22) son of Dennis,  
 

 

Let's hope they're all only as good as Darren Ferguson, Alex Bruce and Jordi Cruyff

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