Promising kids

[SecretSam]

It sounds like there's a number of youngsters "bubbling under". As an exile, I am a bit removed from it all.

Could someone point me to a summary of who's who, positions, etc? TIA

[tin]

There's a lot of hype around Alex Scott, an attacking midfielder from Guernsey, at the moment.

He recently made his England youth debut and has a lot of scouts watching him. I've not seen him myself, so can't offer an opinion, but the noises are that he's the best of the current crop. 

[SecretSam]

12 minutes ago, tin said:

There's a lot of hype around Alex Scott, an attacking midfielder from Guernsey, at the moment.

He recently made his England youth debut and has a lot of scouts watching him. I've not seen him myself, so can't offer an opinion, but the noises are that he's the best of the current crop. 

Yeah, heard the name. Question is, how close are these players to the first team, and how do we keep them? 

[frenchred]

They all start out promising, unfortunately hardly any of them will make it with us as previous years have endorsed

[Davefevs]

27 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Yeah, heard the name. Question is, how close are these players to the first team, and how do we keep them? 

From the players who’ve been on the pitch:

• Towler (D)
• Pearson (W)
• Bell (F)
• Conway (F)
• Owura Edwards (W) (Opi to be released)

to the ones who’ve been in the match day 20:

• Scott (M)
• Harvey Wiles-Richards (G)
• Z.Smith (M) (to be released)

to the ones bubbling below the surface as regular u23s / next batch:

• Benarous (M)
• Britton (F)
• Low (D)
• Owers (M)
• Soady (D)
• Francois (F)
• Henry (F)

How many are close to first team?  Probably depends on how involved you want them to be.  If just for cover, odd sub here and there, then quite a few of them.  If regular minutes on the pitch, less of them, probably the first 3 bullets.  But just my guess.

Others on here much more informed than me.

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

They all start out promising, unfortunately hardly any of them will make it with us as previous years have endorsed

Think we'll see more, it takes time for changes at an academy to be seen in terms of output, 9 years ago was the introduction of EPPP, while scorned by most for the top being able to poach players it made all clubs in its system abide by certain standards. An article online outlined we were aiming for Cat 2 in 2013 so 8 years ago. It probably took a couple of years for things to sort themselves out cohesively so really you're talking about the time Sam Bell entered the academy aged 12 as the start of the new process of the way things were run. Kids older than him being caught between how things used to be run and what they changed to. So I'm optimistic this is the start of seeing more youngsters regularly pushing for being ready for the 1st team sooner.  

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

Think we'll see more, it takes time for changes at an academy to be seen in terms of output, 9 years ago was the introduction of EPPP, while scorned by most for the top being able to poach players it made all clubs in its system abide by certain standards. An article online outlined we were aiming for Cat 2 in 2013 so 8 years ago. It probably took a couple of years for things to sort themselves out cohesively so really you're talking about the time Sam Bell entered the academy aged 12 as the start of the new process of the way things were run. Kids older than him being caught between how things used to be run and what they changed to. So I'm optimistic this is the start of seeing more youngsters regularly pushing for being ready for the 1st team sooner.  

Really interested to see how NP forms his squad next season...and what part the youngsters play.

[ciderwithtommy]

I have seen a few games of Scott, he looks head and shoulders ahead of the rest right now, long way for him to go but he looks the real deal. Also, on a personal note he is the type of player I want to watch, real swagger about his play, quick feet and looks arrogant in a good way. Excited to see him develop. 

[Davefevs]

Agree Tommy....definitely has “something”....and by something I mean he appears to have a picture in his head, a great touch, can use either foot....and therefore looks completely unflustered on the ball.

[DaveF]

The impact of COVID will also increase their chances of making if. I can see most of the out of contract players leaving and us only signed a small handful of replacements, with players like Bell and Pearson consistently making match day squads where players like Paterson will have had the spot previously.

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, tin said:

There's a lot of hype around Alex Scott, an attacking midfielder from Guernsey, at the moment.

He recently made his England youth debut and has a lot of scouts watching him. I've not seen him myself, so can't offer an opinion, but the noises are that he's the best of the current crop. 

Looked useful from his 45mins v Wales...very positive & attacking.

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I see an usually high amount of them making it. 

Already we have seen O'Leary, Vyner, Kelly, Bakinson and Semenyo impress in the first team. Hopefully Pring impresses in preseason and can be competing for that left back role.

That is already impressive, and the next lot are supposed to be the really exciting ones!

Yep.  Without knowing the latest contract situation of the u23 bunch:

It doesn’t look a bad bunch does it?  There will be a few that won’t be here next season, but it’s a good core to develop over the next 12-18-24 months.  Some of that development will be with the first team (for some), some on loan, some as part of u23s.

Definition of “making it” will be interesting.  For example I’d be happy with someone like James Morton being first team cover in midfield, whilst Alex Scott and Ayman Benarous get ready (however we best decide that), rather than buying player x who blocks pathway for those two and Morton himself, who might exceed our expectations when exposed.  There will some tough calls, selfish calls, but you can’t fix a timeline per se.  JT you at least have a plan.  I think Tinnion has that plan....up to the point when he hands them over.  I see his slightly more prominent role building that gap re transition.

Thats how I see it.  Might be a load of old tosh....but I think we are seeing the improvement in our Academy from decisions made years ago.  It can be a slow burner.

[Better Red]

Most  are overrated.

And I say that as a Championship team not a L1 team.
Championship level aiming for the Prem let’s not forget the level we are at.

As we are having such a bad season everyone is looking for some hope.

We are a poor side and yet ‘none’ of them have staked a claim as a 1st choice starter with the exception of Seymenyo and he has been in and out.

Seymenyo - Can’t score will never make the step up. Don’t believe the paper talk re prem clubs interested. Scored 2 goals both not even shots they were deflections off goal keepers clearance. Would warm the bench if we did not have so many injuries. Falters to deceive.£10m crazy talk. Likely to get 2 or 3 a season if he plays 40 plus games.

Bakinson - Want him to be good as he does at least look too pass forward but to weak and lazy with his passes and gives the ball away to cheaply. Will drop down to L1 and where he will look a half decent player for 20/30 games a year. Another who looks like would get maybe 2 goals a season.

Massengo - The wonder kid who does well actually what does he do. Runs about and does look decent on the ball. But never passes forward and does not effect games. Will leave and play back in France in less than 2 seasons. Will he ever score a goal for us ?

Towler - To Weak. Looks good on the ball but nowhere near ready for Championship football.

Bell - Quick and makes decent runs but again looks to weak and small for championship football - Will play L1 or 2 

Vyner - Will make a decent right back at this level. Shame no one in our coaching staff and Nigel has not worked that out. Maybe it’s just me but it’s so obvious it’s painful he does get a run at RB

Edwards - Only seen bits but he looks for me the best of the group. He needs a run in the team and for me we could have a decent player on our hands

O’Leary - L1 Goal keeper. If we sale Bentley I bet we bring in a replacement that will prove how the club sees him.

Pring - Who knows never seen him play.

Pearson - Seen nothing to say he will be a regular first team player. Does look more up to physical side of the game.

I accept there are lots coming through and if we can get 2 or 3 on the bench with Max plus Vyner and one in the team it will certainly help with the wages.

Buy if you said who will be a starter for us next season I would say none and that includes Vyner as unless he gets to play RB I can see him being a back up centre half and utility player a victim of his own versatility.

So if it’s such a great group - how many do you think will be starters next season ?

[E.G.Red]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

From the players who’ve been on the pitch:

• Towler (D)
• Pearson (W)
• Bell (F)
• Conway (F)
• Owura Edwards (W) (Opi to be released)

to the ones who’ve been in the match day 20:

• Scott (M)
• Harvey Wiles-Richards (G)
• Z.Smith (M) (to be released)

to the ones bubbling below the surface as regular u23s / next batch:

• Benarous (M)
• Britton (F)
• Low (D)
• Owers (M)
• Soady (D)
• Francois (F)
• Henry (F)

How many are close to first team?  Probably depends on how involved you want them to be.  If just for cover, odd sub here and there, then quite a few of them.  If regular minutes on the pitch, less of them, probably the first 3 bullets.  But just my guess.

Others on here much more informed than me.

Have you discounted those out on loan such as Robbie Candy, currently on loan at playoff contenders Gillingham. Following their defeat on Saturday in which Candy didn’t play, their manager remarked ‘if ever there was a case for missing Robbie Candy’ it was today. These are the players I would like to see getting a chance with City.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, E.G.Red said:

Have you discounted those out on loan such as Robbie Candy, currently on loan at playoff contenders Gillingham. Following their defeat on Saturday in which Candy didn’t play, their manager remarked ‘if ever there was a case for missing Robbie Candy’ it was today. These are the players I would like to see getting a chance with City.

No, think he’ll be part of 1st team squad next season....but was restricting to Academy players only.

Wouldn’t surprise me if after club exercising their option last week that over the summer a new deal is signed.  Same age as Flint, when he signed for us.  Okay, not had the games Flint had by this stage, but is improving quickly by the seems of it.

[M.D]

8 hours ago, Better Red said:

Most  are overrated.

And I say that as a Championship team not a L1 team.
Championship level aiming for the Prem let’s not forget the level we are at.

As we are having such a bad season everyone is looking for some hope.

We are a poor side and yet ‘none’ of them have staked a claim as a 1st choice starter with the exception of Seymenyo and he has been in and out.

Seymenyo - Can’t score will never make the step up. Don’t believe the paper talk re prem clubs interested. Scored 2 goals both not even shots they were deflections off goal keepers clearance. Would warm the bench if we did not have so many injuries. Falters to deceive.£10m crazy talk. Likely to get 2 or 3 a season if he plays 40 plus games.

Bakinson - Want him to be good as he does at least look too pass forward but to weak and lazy with his passes and gives the ball away to cheaply. Will drop down to L1 and where he will look a half decent player for 20/30 games a year. Another who looks like would get maybe 2 goals a season.

Massengo - The wonder kid who does well actually what does he do. Runs about and does look decent on the ball. But never passes forward and does not effect games. Will leave and play back in France in less than 2 seasons. Will he ever score a goal for us ?

Towler - To Weak. Looks good on the ball but nowhere near ready for Championship football.

Bell - Quick and makes decent runs but again looks to weak and small for championship football - Will play L1 or 2 

Vyner - Will make a decent right back at this level. Shame no one in our coaching staff and Nigel has not worked that out. Maybe it’s just me but it’s so obvious it’s painful he does get a run at RB

Edwards - Only seen bits but he looks for me the best of the group. He needs a run in the team and for me we could have a decent player on our hands

O’Leary - L1 Goal keeper. If we sale Bentley I bet we bring in a replacement that will prove how the club sees him.

Pring - Who knows never seen him play.

Pearson - Seen nothing to say he will be a regular first team player. Does look more up to physical side of the game.

I accept there are lots coming through and if we can get 2 or 3 on the bench with Max plus Vyner and one in the team it will certainly help with the wages.

Buy if you said who will be a starter for us next season I would say none and that includes Vyner as unless he gets to play RB I can see him being a back up centre half and utility player a victim of his own versatility.

So if it’s such a great group - how many do you think will be starters next season ?

Alex Scott and Ayman Benarous, you forgot to write them off too..

Good job your not the head of youth development as we might as well stop spending so much money investing in our future.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

9 hours ago, Better Red said:

Most  are overrated.

And I say that as a Championship team not a L1 team.
Championship level aiming for the Prem let’s not forget the level we are at.

As we are having such a bad season everyone is looking for some hope.

We are a poor side and yet ‘none’ of them have staked a claim as a 1st choice starter with the exception of Seymenyo and he has been in and out.

Seymenyo - Can’t score will never make the step up. Don’t believe the paper talk re prem clubs interested. Scored 2 goals both not even shots they were deflections off goal keepers clearance. Would warm the bench if we did not have so many injuries. Falters to deceive.£10m crazy talk. Likely to get 2 or 3 a season if he plays 40 plus games.

Bakinson - Want him to be good as he does at least look too pass forward but to weak and lazy with his passes and gives the ball away to cheaply. Will drop down to L1 and where he will look a half decent player for 20/30 games a year. Another who looks like would get maybe 2 goals a season.

Massengo - The wonder kid who does well actually what does he do. Runs about and does look decent on the ball. But never passes forward and does not effect games. Will leave and play back in France in less than 2 seasons. Will he ever score a goal for us ?

Towler - To Weak. Looks good on the ball but nowhere near ready for Championship football.

Bell - Quick and makes decent runs but again looks to weak and small for championship football - Will play L1 or 2 

Vyner - Will make a decent right back at this level. Shame no one in our coaching staff and Nigel has not worked that out. Maybe it’s just me but it’s so obvious it’s painful he does get a run at RB

Edwards - Only seen bits but he looks for me the best of the group. He needs a run in the team and for me we could have a decent player on our hands

O’Leary - L1 Goal keeper. If we sale Bentley I bet we bring in a replacement that will prove how the club sees him.

Pring - Who knows never seen him play.

Pearson - Seen nothing to say he will be a regular first team player. Does look more up to physical side of the game.

I accept there are lots coming through and if we can get 2 or 3 on the bench with Max plus Vyner and one in the team it will certainly help with the wages.

Buy if you said who will be a starter for us next season I would say none and that includes Vyner as unless he gets to play RB I can see him being a back up centre half and utility player a victim of his own versatility.

So if it’s such a great group - how many do you think will be starters next season ?

I can not believe I have just read this. It's tosh.  

[Better Red]

1 hour ago, M.D said:

Alex Scott and Ayman Benarous, you forgot to write them off too..

Good job your not the head of youth development as we might as well stop spending so much money investing in our future.

How far away is that future? 2,3 4 years.... 

32 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

I can not believe I have just read this. It's tosh.  

Tosh? How many do you think will be a starter next season?

[Better Red]

1 hour ago, M.D said:

Alex Scott and Ayman Benarous, you forgot to write them off too..

Good job your not the head of youth development as we might as well stop spending so much money investing in our future.

Let’s see how many come through and play in the first team before we all get over excited. 
 

The best I have seen so far (except Vyner) is a Striker/winger who can’t score goals and can only come inside to beat a man and has little end product - over rated.

I looking for players who will make it in a championship side at the other end of the table.  

I agree they should get a go this season so NP can have a look at them but they have got to be good enough for a club at this level.
 

 

[SecretSam]

11 hours ago, Better Red said:

Most  are overrated.

And I say that as a Championship team not a L1 team.
Championship level aiming for the Prem let’s not forget the level we are at.

As we are having such a bad season everyone is looking for some hope.

We are a poor side and yet ‘none’ of them have staked a claim as a 1st choice starter with the exception of Seymenyo and he has been in and out.

Seymenyo - Can’t score will never make the step up. Don’t believe the paper talk re prem clubs interested. Scored 2 goals both not even shots they were deflections off goal keepers clearance. Would warm the bench if we did not have so many injuries. Falters to deceive.£10m crazy talk. Likely to get 2 or 3 a season if he plays 40 plus games.

Bakinson - Want him to be good as he does at least look too pass forward but to weak and lazy with his passes and gives the ball away to cheaply. Will drop down to L1 and where he will look a half decent player for 20/30 games a year. Another who looks like would get maybe 2 goals a season.

Massengo - The wonder kid who does well actually what does he do. Runs about and does look decent on the ball. But never passes forward and does not effect games. Will leave and play back in France in less than 2 seasons. Will he ever score a goal for us ?

Towler - To Weak. Looks good on the ball but nowhere near ready for Championship football.

Bell - Quick and makes decent runs but again looks to weak and small for championship football - Will play L1 or 2 

Vyner - Will make a decent right back at this level. Shame no one in our coaching staff and Nigel has not worked that out. Maybe it’s just me but it’s so obvious it’s painful he does get a run at RB

Edwards - Only seen bits but he looks for me the best of the group. He needs a run in the team and for me we could have a decent player on our hands

O’Leary - L1 Goal keeper. If we sale Bentley I bet we bring in a replacement that will prove how the club sees him.

Pring - Who knows never seen him play.

Pearson - Seen nothing to say he will be a regular first team player. Does look more up to physical side of the game.

I accept there are lots coming through and if we can get 2 or 3 on the bench with Max plus Vyner and one in the team it will certainly help with the wages.

Buy if you said who will be a starter for us next season I would say none and that includes Vyner as unless he gets to play RB I can see him being a back up centre half and utility player a victim of his own versatility.

So if it’s such a great group - how many do you think will be starters next season ?

Wow, bet you're fun at parties.

[E.G.Red]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

No, think he’ll be part of 1st team squad next season....but was restricting to Academy players only.

Wouldn’t surprise me if after club exercising their option last week that over the summer a new deal is signed.  Same age as Flint, when he signed for us.  Okay, not had the games Flint had by this stage, but is improving quickly by the seems of it.

Just wish that autocorrect hadn’t changed Cundy to Candy

[Murraysrightplum]

Never promise them anything, it’ll come back to bite you

[SecretSam]

7 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

Just wish that autocorrect hadn’t changed Cundy to Candy

What position does Cindy play?

[M.D]

56 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Let’s see how many come through and play in the first team before we all get over excited. 
 

The best I have seen so far (except Vyner) is a Striker/winger who can’t score goals and can only come inside to beat a man and has little end product - over rated.

I looking for players who will make it in a championship side at the other end of the table.  

I agree they should get a go this season so NP can have a look at them but they have got to be good enough for a club at this level.
 

 

To be fair, none of us fans really know as there are far more factors than just footballing ability to take into account

But to write off our entire youth team and some first team players without having the day to day insight you can only get from working with them is a little unfair to say the least

[Better Red]

28 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Wow, bet you're fun at parties.

 Not bad, but not keen on fancy dress.

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

1 hour ago, Better Red said:

How far away is that future? 2,3 4 years.... 

Tosh? How many do you think will be a starter next season?

Most if not all of them

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, Better Red said:

How far away is that future? 2,3 4 years.... 

Tosh? How many do you think will be a starter next season?

Why do they have to be ready next season?

The likes of Bell, Towler etc you list as being too weak to make it have only turned 18 in the last 12 months and therefore will have only just started to have their S&C levels increased with probably limits over the amount of weights you can do as an under 18 so same for that will apply to Pearson and Conway. The likes of Scott and Benarous therefore wouldn’t even be at that stage yet and still developing physically.

Not surprising 18 year olds aren’t all ready physically to compete with 25 year olds. Give the likes of Bell/Conway time to train with the first team, can imagine the likes Wells and Weimann can probably teach them how to use their pace/agility to position their bodied against bigger/stronger players.

[Norn Iron]

59 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

What position does Cindy play?

Up front with the American duo Ken and Barbie.

[M.D]

18 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Why do they have to be ready next season?

The likes of Bell, Towler etc you list as being too weak to make it have only turned 18 in the last 12 months and therefore will have only just started to have their S&C levels increased with probably limits over the amount of weights you can do as an under 18 so same for that will apply to Pearson and Conway. The likes of Scott and Benarous therefore wouldn’t even be at that stage yet and still developing physically.

Not surprising 18 year olds aren’t all ready physically to compete with 25 year olds. Give the likes of Bell/Conway time to train with the first team, can imagine the likes Wells and Weimann can probably teach them how to use their pace/agility to position their bodied against bigger/stronger players.

Spot on, its the future we are building with these players, some will make it, some won't and the odd one will be a surprise package.

The point is that it looks like our youth policy is starting to produce better footballers but it will take time and who knows what we may uncover in the years ahead but its a direction the club is moving forward with without a doubt.

[alexukhc]

Whatever happened to that Morton lad? 5 year deal wasn’t it?