The actually I don't mind Lansbury thread

[GrahamC]

43 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I guess it depends how bad the injury is. I don't know much about injuries, but maybe if it's slight tendonitis then it might be okay to play through.

Personally I wouldn't mind Bakinson being in there alongside Massengo. Not sure if that combination has been tried yet. 

Some fans have said Bakinson is not good enough and I think I've seen some fans even saying he should be sold. 

No doubt his levels have dropped, but to me he is a special talent who we should definitely stick with. 

Even if Lansbury's injury is a minor one, I would like us to go Bakinson in there.

Bakinson is just gutless, he doesn’t want to track back or to put a challenge in & has perfected the aimless jog by the side of his opponent.

He had 5 good games for us & so thinks he can phone it in now. Would have really suited the Danny Wilson era..

He’s under contract for next season so not going anywhere but whoever is in charge of us needs to let him know he will be nowhere near the first team without a massive change in attitude & effort.

[steviestevieneville]

15 hours ago, mozo said:

Here goes, time to destroy the last crumbs of credibility I have on OTIB...

This Lansbury fella. He was seriously rusty and off the pace when he joined, but with a few games under his belt he's become a reasonably reliable partner for Massengo in our midfield.

Okay his pace and athleticism are, shall we say, limited... But he's increasingly having a positive contribution and has that game management nous. 

I'm not saying we offer him a long term deal but I'd pick him ahead of Bakinson atm and he's not a Brunt by any stretch. 

Here's your chance to disagree with me with an onslaught of ridicule and bile.

 

I agree. Fans see he doesn’t run around like a headless chicken & say he’s shit . That’s just clueless fans imo. He’s a calm player with bags of experience & quality . I’m not saying give him a three year contract but the likes of Han, Bakinson etc will Learn loads from him. If he was given a one year contract , I think it would be a good decision 

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

It's interesting that a couple of replies have noted how much we miss Pack. Massively under rated player IMHO, yet many fans couldn't see his value or contribution.

Not against Marlon but we became very predictable with him in the side. We needed a different option to change things . I wouldn’t of got rid but apparently he was offered stupid wages at Cardiff . It’s a short career , I don’t blame him for going  

[mozo]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I guess it depends how bad the injury is. I don't know much about injuries, but maybe if it's slight tendonitis then it might be okay to play through.

Personally I wouldn't mind Bakinson being in there alongside Massengo. Not sure if that combination has been tried yet. 

Some fans have said Bakinson is not good enough and I think I've seen some fans even saying he should be sold. 

No doubt his levels have dropped, but to me he is a special talent who we should definitely stick with. 

Even if Lansbury's injury is a minor one, I would like us to go Bakinson in there.

I think the perceived wisdom with Bakinson is that he's got the ability, but maybe not the drive. A good touch and forward passing is all good, but if you want to be a  central midfielder at this level you've got to have a determination that he seems to have had early in the season and has since lost. He looks like he's going through the motions at the moment, whereas Massengo has shown a will to impact the game. 

[Major Isewater]

16 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

He doesn`t mind the dark arts either and happy to take one for the team when necessary. We don`t have anyone else like that really.

Jack Hunt and Tommy Rowe  are the only ones who spring to mind.

Semenyo, Mighty Mouse Massengo  and Wells are able to go down when necessary but are not niggly nasty buggers. 

[mozo]

29 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think Massengo is certainly more a runner type like Weimann, Nagy, O'Dowda etc. 

Bakinson I don't think was really running around loads early season but was superb in that single pivot with Weimann and Paterson doing so much work box to box. 3 centre backs behind him too. I think it was perfect for him to show his strengths and his weaknesses maybe not so noticeable.

Still a young age and hopefully he bulks up more to make him more of a physical presence in the midfield. 

Not sure he will ever be a player who runs like some of our others do. But certainly needs to improve some parts of his game for sure off the ball.

I felt yesterday our defence was fine, and Lansbury's lack of mobility didn't really matter too much in the end as we improved in the 2nd half, so Bakinson's lack of mobility might not be a problem if he replaces Lansbury.

The problem I think were the forwards. Palmer and Wells so poor. Pearson good for his age but I think most will agree isn't really at that level yet. Semenyo decent and it seems like he's our only hope in those forward areas at the moment.

Palmer not making runs at all and always coming in field wanting the ball to feet. We had no width on the left side. Rowe not getting forward to offer width either.

Let's not forget he was hauled off after 20 minutes by NP then benched. That's not because of the type of player he is imo

[Roger Red Hat]

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

Let's not forget he was hauled off after 20 minutes by NP then benched. That's not because of the type of player he is imo

My observations of TB, in the 23's and first team, are that he has a 'languid' style. Unfortunately that seems to drift into a downright 'lazy' style and he's a liability to the team.

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

My observations of TB, in the 23's and first team, are that he has a 'languid' style. Unfortunately that seems to drift into a downright 'lazy' style and he's a liability to the team.

His issue to resolve is two fold:

a. 60% of the match (currently) is without the ball - how can he influence that ratio more in our favour

b. Of our 40% possession what can he do more to get on the ball more

Whilst he’s on the ball, he’s generally quite good....it’s about his efforts when he’s not on the ball.  He lets players run off him, he isn’t one who closes his player down with intensity.

He can improve those things.  Some of it is attitude.  NP is putting the challenge out there.  He’s put him on the pitch over Nagy yesterday.  He should take heart from that and kick-on.

I do not believe he needs a league one loan.  He’s 23 in October, he’s got enough Championship experience, it’s about him determining his fate.  He can hack this level, if he ends up lower than this level, it’s because he’s not prepared to work hard enough.

[Roger Red Hat]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I do not believe he needs a league one loan.  He’s 23 in October, he’s got enough Championship experience, it’s about him determining his fate.  He can hack this level, if he ends up lower than this level, it’s because he’s not prepared to work hard enough.

I agree totally. I'd hoped we would see more of an improvement in his application and effort over the last few years. I first watched him in the 23's before he went out on loan and he seems exactly the same then and now in his languid/laziness attitude.

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Jack Hunt and Tommy Rowe  are the only ones who spring to mind.

Semenyo, Mighty Mouse Massengo  and Wells are able to go down when necessary but are not niggly nasty buggers. 

True but I think HL tends to get away with more than JH or TR, maybe because he`s a bit of a `name` and refs have heard of him? We all know that goes on.

[steviestevieneville]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

I think the perceived wisdom with Bakinson is that he's got the ability, but maybe not the drive. A good touch and forward passing is all good, but if you want to be a  central midfielder at this level you've got to have a determination that he seems to have had early in the season and has since lost. He looks like he's going through the motions at the moment, whereas Massengo has shown a will to impact the game. 

Bakinson does have a languid style. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t work hard . I think it’s more between his ears . He’s switched off a few times that’s cost us goals , he needs to rectify it if he’s going to have a future in the top leagues. 

[SouthS22]

7 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

I agree. Fans see he doesn’t run around like a headless chicken & say he’s shit . That’s just clueless fans imo. He’s a calm player with bags of experience & quality . I’m not saying give him a three year contract but the likes of Han, Bakinson etc will Learn loads from him. If he was given a one year contract , I think it would be a good decision 

I haven't seen anyone say that you have to run around like a headless chicken to be deemed to be working hard enough.  Its about positioning and tracking back and doing the hard covering yards that are needed of a central midfield player to close down angles, make interceptions and win possession.  I don't think I've ever said HL is shit, but I have said I don't think he works hard enough because whenever he's played we have looked easy to play through in the middle and terrible at retaining posession.  Am I therefore one of your so-called 'clueless fans'?'.  He's got bags of experience, but sadly has demonstrated very little quality so far, unless your definition of quality is hitting hopeless long balls either out of play or back to the other team, which he has excelled at.   

It was a bit better on Saturday.  His passing was simpler and seemed more accurate and though we still couldn't keep the ball during the first half, I don't think he was to blame in that.  It's difficult to say why of course for sure when we can only see the game on Robins TV, and I don't have access to the game stats.  Perhaps he's getting some fitness back, or maybe there were more passing options and outlets with HNM, KP and Pearson, or maybe its just because HNM is doing the lions share of the work and is starting to look like the quality player we thought he could be.    

I do think HL is the best starting option we have there at the moment, sadly, after HNM, but that's more a reflection on the terrible form of Bakinson and Nagy than on any positive view of HL.  Longer term, we do have better options there (theoretically) if we can get Williams fit, Walsh signed up, and Bakinson playing more to his potential, and fot that reason I wouldn't be sad to wave goodbye, with thanks, at the end of the season.     

 

[Davefevs]

50 minutes ago, SouthS22 said:

I haven't seen anyone say that you have to run around like a headless chicken to be deemed to be working hard enough.  Its about positioning and tracking back and doing the hard covering yards that are needed of a central midfield player to close down angles, make interceptions and win possession.  I don't think I've ever said HL is shit, but I have said I don't think he works hard enough because whenever he's played we have looked easy to play through in the middle and terrible at retaining posession.  Am I therefore one of your so-called 'clueless fans'?'.  He's got bags of experience, but sadly has demonstrated very little quality so far, unless your definition of quality is hitting hopeless long balls either out of play or back to the other team, which he has excelled at.   

It was a bit better on Saturday.  His passing was simpler and seemed more accurate and though we still couldn't keep the ball during the first half, I don't think he was to blame in that.  It's difficult to say why of course for sure when we can only see the game on Robins TV, and I don't have access to the game stats.  Perhaps he's getting some fitness back, or maybe there were more passing options and outlets with HNM, KP and Pearson, or maybe its just because HNM is doing the lions share of the work and is starting to look like the quality player we thought he could be.    

I do think HL is the best starting option we have there at the moment, sadly, after HNM, but that's more a reflection on the terrible form of Bakinson and Nagy than on any positive view of HL.  Longer term, we do have better options there (theoretically) if we can get Williams fit, Walsh signed up, and Bakinson playing more to his potential, and fot that reason I wouldn't be sad to wave goodbye, with thanks, at the end of the season.     

 

Some good points in there.  Imho he needs to do more to give passing options.  I posted earlier in this thread that Kalas playing deep doesn’t help us either, as Lansbury isn’t hugely mobile.  Think he’s building a decent partnership with HNM though.

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, SouthS22 said:

I haven't seen anyone say that you have to run around like a headless chicken to be deemed to be working hard enough.  Its about positioning and tracking back and doing the hard covering yards that are needed of a central midfield player to close down angles, make interceptions and win possession.  I don't think I've ever said HL is shit, but I have said I don't think he works hard enough because whenever he's played we have looked easy to play through in the middle and terrible at retaining posession.  Am I therefore one of your so-called 'clueless fans'?'.  He's got bags of experience, but sadly has demonstrated very little quality so far, unless your definition of quality is hitting hopeless long balls either out of play or back to the other team, which he has excelled at.   

It was a bit better on Saturday.  His passing was simpler and seemed more accurate and though we still couldn't keep the ball during the first half, I don't think he was to blame in that.  It's difficult to say why of course for sure when we can only see the game on Robins TV, and I don't have access to the game stats.  Perhaps he's getting some fitness back, or maybe there were more passing options and outlets with HNM, KP and Pearson, or maybe its just because HNM is doing the lions share of the work and is starting to look like the quality player we thought he could be.    

I do think HL is the best starting option we have there at the moment, sadly, after HNM, but that's more a reflection on the terrible form of Bakinson and Nagy than on any positive view of HL.  Longer term, we do have better options there (theoretically) if we can get Williams fit, Walsh signed up, and Bakinson playing more to his potential, and fot that reason I wouldn't be sad to wave goodbye, with thanks, at the end of the season.     

 

I certainly wasn’t trying to generalise everyone calling them clueless fans if they don’t rate HL apologies if it came across that way. There are fans that think a player isn’t trying unless he runs around too much. I agree with you about him & wouldn't worry if he wasn’t offered a contract at the end of the season. It may well be a combination of fitness & passing options , I do think we’re starting to see the HL of a few seasons ago . Although by the time he’s up to speed completely the season will be over. He’ll probably be on decent money and with the prospect of Walsh & williams hopefully being fit next season , he may well struggle for game time anyway. Plus he could well block the pathway of a youngster .  

[Harry]

8 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

I agree. Fans see he doesn’t run around like a headless chicken & say he’s shit . That’s just clueless fans imo. He’s a calm player with bags of experience & quality . I’m not saying give him a three year contract but the likes of Han, Bakinson etc will Learn loads from him. If he was given a one year contract , I think it would be a good decision 

I’m not suggesting he needs to run around like a headless chicken. I’m suggesting that he doesn’t have the awareness to play as a DM. 
It’s not about running around loads, it’s about positioning yourself intelligently to shield your defence. In the example I gave earlier, HL runs 50 yards - so there’s no slagging off of his running distances, it’s more that the whole 50 yards was wasted and offered zero protection. He may as well have stood still in the centre circle for all that the 50 yard run did. 

Re your last sentence, if we offer him a 1 year deal I will boo.

[Harry]

8 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Not against Marlon but we became very predictable with him in the side. We needed a different option to change things . I wouldn’t of got rid but apparently he was offered stupid wages at Cardiff . It’s a short career , I don’t blame him for going  

Perhaps Pack’s predictable nature was due to inferior players around him. 
Maybe we could have kept Pack and utilised his ability to keep hold of the ball, retain and recycle possession, always offer a passing angle for his teammates and shield the defence too, and put some players around him that could fit with his style. Replacing him with Nagy, to then have to replace with Brunt to then have to replace with Lansbury is the biggest downgrade I think I’ve ever seen at this club. 

[steviestevieneville]

12 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’m not suggesting he needs to run around like a headless chicken. I’m suggesting that he doesn’t have the awareness to play as a DM. 
It’s not about running around loads, it’s about positioning yourself intelligently to shield your defence. In the example I gave earlier, HL runs 50 yards - so there’s no slagging off of his running distances, it’s more that the whole 50 yards was wasted and offered zero protection. He may as well have stood still in the centre circle for all that the 50 yard run did. 

Re your last sentence, if we offer him a 1 year deal I will boo.

I’ll be 100% honest. I can’t even remember writing that. The vino must have kicked in by then

I retract that last sentence & agree he’s not a defensive midfielder. It was his best performance for us though so credit where it due on that 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

Yeah jury still out. But first support massengo well and key him play. But surely we could get a better player than him 

[Numero Uno]

21 hours ago, MarcusX said:

If true, why did we persist with him? Are we intent on ruining players? Depending how bad it is, an Achilles rupture at his age could be career ending.

Explains the way he’s played though. I used to rate him highly and hope he can be that player for us but I feel like he’s arrived a couple of years too late 

An alternative way of looking at that is if the physio has confirmed it's not "serious" or long term and that a summer of rest will sort it out Lansbury may well have told NP "I'll take a couple of painkillers, get me out there Gaffer, I want to do what I can to help and I want to try and earn a contract" (whether you think that's much or not you can't knock that attitude) in which case he has the resilience and robustness that NP clearly stated was LACKING at the club as a whole a couple of interviews ago. It was a comment that made me wonder whether a few of the injuries are the type that could be "played through".....................however I also accept that if you are OOC with no likelihood of a contract being put on the table why would you bother?!!

[Sir Geoff]

5 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

An alternative way of looking at that is if the physio has confirmed it's not "serious" or long term and that a summer of rest will sort it out Lansbury may well have told NP "I'll take a couple of painkillers, get me out there Gaffer, I want to do what I can to help and I want to try and earn a contract" (whether you think that's much or not you can't knock that attitude) in which case he has the resilience and robustness that NP clearly stated was LACKING at the club as a whole a couple of interviews ago. It was a comment that made me wonder whether a few of the injuries are the type that could be "played through".....................however I also accept that if you are OOC with no likelihood of a contract being put on the table why would you bother?!!

I have had a feeling for a while that NP likes his attitude and is wise enough to know that HL will only improve once he gets close to match fitness. Due to this I think he will be here next year if NP stays. 

[Davefevs]

10 hours ago, billywedlock said:

I saw Nagy play in Italy twice, and only have a vague recollection. But when we signed him I felt he had certain limitations, and those have become clear. I really doubt we scouted him properly . I really do. He was never in a million years going to replace Pack. But then we sold Webster and never replaced him. We signed Bentley to give the ball to Webster. But he was long gone. Pack was meant to take (I assume) the ball from Webster, but they had both gone. So Bentley had lost both players he was meant to supply. Lansbury has some attributes, maybe if we had signed him 7 years ago when we first scouted him great, but he is nowhere near a player to manage play. We sold the heart of the team, and never replaced it. Despite claiming we always have options. Nonsense. Sometimes you really do expect the Benny Hill music at our club. 

Good points.  The succession planning of selling Pack coupled with the signing of Nagy (and Massengo) whilst Korey was still out injured was incredible.  Made worse 1.5 games later when Nagy got injured.  Would’ve been easier to offer Marlon a few more quid than buy Nagy.

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

An alternative way of looking at that is if the physio has confirmed it's not "serious" or long term and that a summer of rest will sort it out Lansbury may well have told NP "I'll take a couple of painkillers, get me out there Gaffer, I want to do what I can to help and I want to try and earn a contract" (whether you think that's much or not you can't knock that attitude) in which case he has the resilience and robustness that NP clearly stated was LACKING at the club as a whole a couple of interviews ago. It was a comment that made me wonder whether a few of the injuries are the type that could be "played through".....................however I also accept that if you are OOC with no likelihood of a contract being put on the table why would you bother?!!

Very fair comment, it could as you say just be a niggle that can be managed for the sake of wanting some game time.

[mozo]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good points.  The succession planning of selling Pack coupled with the signing of Nagy (and Massengo) whilst Korey was still out injured was incredible.  Made worse 1.5 games later when Nagy got injured.  Would’ve been easier to offer Marlon a few more quid than buy Nagy.

Also Dave I'm just not convinced that Nagy, Massengo and Szmodics (probs others) we're signed to fit particular roles in a defined system. I think they were just good business deals that then left LJ, who authorised the signings, struggling to fit the pieces together.

If I'm just over cynical and these players had in fact been recruited with a clear vision of how they fit in then it wasn't planned very well!

[Davefevs]

38 minutes ago, mozo said:

Also Dave I'm just not convinced that Nagy, Massengo and Szmodics (probs others) we're signed to fit particular roles in a defined system. I think they were just good business deals that then left LJ, who authorised the signings, struggling to fit the pieces together.

If I'm just over cynical and these players had in fact been recruited with a clear vision of how they fit in then it wasn't planned very well!

You might be right....add Eisa to that too.

Recruitment shouldn’t be about signing good players it should be about signing good players that fit your system, or good players that allow you to morph to the system you ideally want to (and others in your squad are better for too).