I have to say it...

[Numero Uno]

19 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Saying nothing would be better, I worry we are setting these lads up to fail based on the standards the fans have been led to believe we want to achieve.

Rather than overkill (my opinion) on Sam Bell signing a contract (I wish him well of course), or Tommy Conway finishing from 10 yards in training (I wish him well of course), I would like to see our communication channels full of positive long-term managerial and first team player contract news.

Unfortunately the club cannot seem to escape this “smoke and mirrors” distraction strategy/culture, and take the average fan for a mug who is easily pulled away from what really counts, a strategy that I would have hoped the club had learnt their lesson with, but clearly have not, with the now ridicule-laden hyperbole that came with appointing Dean Holden.

This is not a dig at any of these lads, more at the club who are a paper thin propaganda machine (my opinion).

They are only a propaganda machine if people are stupid and uneducated enough to keep believing the bastards!!

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Naive to not understand why we are “bigging” these lads up now as first team players in the present when we have made a complete mess of recruiting players that can push us towards the Prem.

Seems to me all of a sudden we have to get behind a bunch of “maybe good enough but exciting cause they are young” lads because that is the only thing worth mentioning after the abysmal incompetence of managing this shambles in the last 18 months.

I don’t think we are bugging them up per se.

I think we are expanding our media content on our youngsters, something I’m massively in favour of.  In fact I wrote to Dave Barton to explain my disappointment of the Academy coverage from broken links on the website to Academy highlights.  He used COVID as an excuse, but the coverage had been poor pre-COVID.

Since then we’ve had much better coverage.  I’m sure it wasn’t down to me though!

Re Tommy Conway - from a tweet point of view, it was a snippet of the overall Failand Uncut video....and the best shot of that set of the video, so no issue with it being used.

Of course there is an element of why are we promoting our kids, because as you say, we’ve effed up recruitment.

I’m not sure I necessarily see a Lloyd Kelly level player in these lads at the same age, but in another 6/9/12 months they might be bonafide squad members, rather than injury cover for a depleted squad.

Im buying my SC with eyes fully open.  I’m not seeing this as sales-pitch.

[bcfc01]

3 hours ago, The Horse With No Name said:

But if the message is " don't expect promotion next season " , thats not a good line when trying to sell season tickets.  

Maybe not, but at least it is honest in trying to sell something.

If the manager is saying 4-6 transfer windows (2 -3 seasons) before realistically expecting top 6 and the owner is saying the target is top 6 next season (not that I've heard that so far but thats the usual bull), there is a problem.

I can't see SL or MA being too pleased with NP downplaying our chances with season tickets up for sale. Especially as we appear to have a shed load of gullible punters who take the clubs proclamations literally instead of with a pinch of salt.

[TomThumb84]

Just now, Davefevs said:

I don’t think we are bugging them up per se.

I think we are expanding our media content on our youngsters, something I’m massively in favour of.  In fact I wrote to Dave Barton to explain my disappointment of the Academy coverage from broken links on the website to Academy highlights.  He used COVID as an excuse, but the coverage had been poor pre-COVID.

Since then we’ve had much better coverage.  I’m sure it wasn’t down to me though!

Re Tommy Conway - from a tweet point of view, it was a snippet of the overall Failand Uncut video....and the best shot of that set of the video, so no issue with it being used.

Of course there is an element of why are we promoting our kids, because as you say, we’ve effed up recruitment.

I’m not sure I necessarily see a Lloyd Kelly level player in these lads at the same age, but in another 6/9/12 months they might be bonafide squad members, rather than injury cover for a depleted squad.

Im buying my SC with eyes fully open.  I’m not seeing this as sales-pitch.

Measured response Dave, but the fact that you do not see it as a sales-pitch does not mean it is not an attempted one from the club nonetheless.

Would be good to see the emergence of (possibly) talented up and coming youth, used in a suitable ratio with more important and pressing news that seems to be a complete white elephant to the club.

I may be in the minority but rather than get excited by this media release of our young players, I am irritated by it, as I want to hear other things, and that is not right, wrong, or fair on anyone, but is indicative of my club striking the wrong chord with me continually at the moment.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Measured response Dave, but the fact that you do not see it as a sales-pitch does not mean it is not an attempted one from the club nonetheless.

very true.  As you’ll know I’m one who follows the financial side of football....and NP is lowering fans expectations of a big summer of spending, which aligns with what I expect too.

Would be good to see the emergence of (possibly) talented up and coming youth, used in a suitable ratio with more important and pressing news that seems to be a complete white elephant to the club.

yes, I think we will start to understand where some of these kids fit in the development plan.  Are they ready to compete in the squad, need a loan or go back to u23s.  Recruitment may drive that decision.

I may be in the minority but rather than get excited by this media release of our young players, I am irritated by it, as I want to hear other things, and that is not right, wrong, or fair on anyone, but is indicative of my club striking the wrong chord with me continually at the moment.

I think the state of flux in the club (investment, CEO, managerial decision) means there ain’t a lot else to “put out there”.  Ideally we’d have MA coming out and telling us about our last push for the playoffs or recruitment plans for the summer, etc....but we are in a mess behind the scenes, so we can’t hear that.  The only charity we are getting is from NP.  Shambles, not NP btw!!!

[And Its Smith]

44 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Saying nothing would be better, I worry we are setting these lads up to fail based on the standards the fans have been led to believe we want to achieve.

Rather than overkill (my opinion) on Sam Bell signing a contract (I wish him well of course), or Tommy Conway finishing from 10 yards in training (I wish him well of course), I would like to see our communication channels full of positive long-term managerial and first team player contract news.

Unfortunately the club cannot seem to escape this “smoke and mirrors” distraction strategy/culture, and take the average fan for a mug who is easily pulled away from what really counts, a strategy that I would have hoped the club had learnt their lesson with, but clearly have not, with the now ridicule-laden hyperbole that came with appointing Dean Holden.

This is not a dig at any of these lads, more at the club who are a paper thin propaganda machine (my opinion).

Yeah keep quiet about the best youth system we’ve ever had! 

[TomThumb84]

49 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Yeah keep quiet about the best youth system we’ve ever had! 

Brave statement that can not be proven or unproven until they impact at a level we want to compete at.

My personal opinion is that these lads would not even be on the radar let alone being spoken about so much had we recruited better and appointed a different manager after Johnson (L) left and/or had a medical team that were fit for purpose.

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

Brave statement that can not be proven or unproven until they impact at a level we want to compete at.

Look how many youth internationals we have. I believe it’s more than ever before 

[TomThumb84]

1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

Look how many youth internationals we have. I believe it’s more than ever before 

Maybe that is contextual against the relative strength of the youth international sides and not the depth of our squad.

[grifty]

1 hour ago, TomThumb84 said:

Measured response Dave, but the fact that you do not see it as a sales-pitch does not mean it is not an attempted one from the club nonetheless.

Would be good to see the emergence of (possibly) talented up and coming youth, used in a suitable ratio with more important and pressing news that seems to be a complete white elephant to the club.

I may be in the minority but rather than get excited by this media release of our young players, I am irritated by it, as I want to hear other things, and that is not right, wrong, or fair on anyone, but is indicative of my club striking the wrong chord with me continually at the moment.

Then that's your (rather strange) issue to deal with not the club.

If you can't see the benefit of the club releasing a tweet with some promo shots of a 17/18 year old, a 30 second interview and with that half a dozen comments from fans saying things like "great news" and "Well done" doesn't give them a boost of confidence, make them feel 10 foot tall, give them that extra % hard work rate.

Contract negotiation and players OOC will not be tweeted out because it's not public. NP getting a long term contract or not will not be made public and SL & NP have already said discussions will go on towards the end of the season.

Of all the things to be frustrated about this club, a few tweets of youth players signing contracts is a frankly bizarre thing to get irritated by.

[TomThumb84]

3 minutes ago, grifty said:

Then that's your (rather strange) issue to deal with not the club.

If you can't see the benefit of the club releasing a tweet with some promo shots of a 17/18 year old, a 30 second interview and with that half a dozen comments from fans saying things like "great news" and "Well done" doesn't give them a boost of confidence, make them feel 10 foot tall, give them that extra % hard work rate.

Contract negotiation and players OOC will not be tweeted out because it's not public. NP getting a long term contract or not will not be made public and SL & NP have already said discussions will go on towards the end of the season.

Of all the things to be frustrated about this club, a few tweets of youth players signing contracts is a frankly bizarre thing to get irritated by.

Fair and maybe my over the top irrational response to this all is an overspill of a wasted season of disaster on and off the pitch.

Appreciate your response, and agree with most of it on balance.

[And Its Smith]

16 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Maybe that is contextual against the relative strength of the youth international sides and not the depth of our squad.

You can find any negative angle you want if you try hard enough 

[Red-Robbo]

Can anyone who watches our youth team more closely than me explain why Louis Britton doesn't seem to be in consideration for that first step-up to matchday squad? He seems to bang in goals with regularity at every level he's played at.

Likewise Ayman Benarous.  The highlights video I watched of him shows he can be a right handful for defenders.  Our MF is weak and full of injuries. Surprised I've not seen more of him.

[marmite]

11 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Can anyone who watches our youth team more closely than me explain why Louis Britton doesn't seem to be in consideration for that first step-up to matchday squad? He seems to bang in goals with regularity at every level he's played at.

Likewise Ayman Benarous.  The highlights video I watched of him shows he can be a right handful for defenders.  Our MF is weak and full of injuries. Surprised I've not seen more of him.

Now we are safe, I think, it might just be the time to give these kids some matchday experience. Dont lets wait til next season when they will feel pressure to perform from the start. Im fed up with our current squads efforts to entertain so lets try something and someone different. Whats to lose , apart from the game, and thats happening anyway.

[Superjack]

7 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Lee Johnson managed it!!

And he shouldn't have.

[steviestevieneville]

4 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Yeah keep quiet about the best youth system we’ve ever had! 

Bit of a misconception isn’t it . It’s great to see the young lads get debuts but let’s be honest. They’d be nowhere near the squad if everyone was fit. It’s ok playing the odd game or a twenty minute cameo but these lads are nowhere near ready to compete properly for a squad place yet. They need to go out on loan & find their feet in lower league football . The championship over a full season would spit them out. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Can anyone who watches our youth team more closely than me explain why Louis Britton doesn't seem to be in consideration for that first step-up to matchday squad? He seems to bang in goals with regularity at every level he's played at.

Likewise Ayman Benarous.  The highlights video I watched of him shows he can be a right handful for defenders.  Our MF is weak and full of injuries. Surprised I've not seen more of him.

Can’t answer about Britton, but my guesswork is that with him going on loan to Stockport and Conway at Bath early season, Bell got the chance to join the first team squad under Holden when injuries struck.  Remember Fletcher going on loan to Barnsley and Rashford jumped the queue.  It happens.  So then you’re Britton v Conway as next to come up.  It’s quite possible that Conway would’ve been ahead of Bell had he not gone on loan.

As I say, guesswork.  NP not ruled him out being included.

Re Benarous, he’s not a regular starter in the u23s.  Alex Scott, Zac Smith and Josh Owers all start ahead if him regularly.  He’s standout for the u18s, but u23s is a bigger pond.

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Can’t answer about Britton, but my guesswork is that with him going on loan to Stockport and Conway at Bath early season, Bell got the chance to join the first team squad under Holden when injuries struck.  Remember Fletcher going on loan to Barnsley and Rashford jumped the queue.  It happens.  So then you’re Britton v Conway as next to come up.  It’s quite possible that Conway would’ve been ahead of Bell had he not gone on loan.

As I say, guesswork.  NP not ruled him out being included.

Re Benarous, he’s not a regular starter in the u23s.  Alex Scott, Zac Smith and Josh Owers all start ahead if him regularly.  He’s standout for the u18s, but u23s is a bigger pond.

 

I just think the old cliché, if you're good enough, you're old enough applies.

Maybe we'll see both the players mentioned in the last game or two this season. 

[redsquirrel]

you can sort of see why NP is bringing in the likes of simpson etc,he needs players he can trust with no potential profit so he can build the team around them because if he does get say,a fantastic striker in,  chances are striker would then get sold for profit and leave us short again.hence needing 5 or 6 windows to establish a team with team spirit and not a group of talented individuals

[Mad Cyril]

Selling season tickets on a concept of top 6? Genuinely not bothered by that fake promise. 

6 shots on goal per game is all I ask and dream of.

[Red Skin]

On 11/04/2021 at 08:26, The Horse With No Name said:

But if the message is " don't expect promotion next season " , thats not a good line when trying to sell season tickets.  

Expect players that want to play for the club in a system that has got me promotion in the past is fine for me.  Add to that a sprinkling of youth that feel a real connection to the club and already have a bond with one another, and I'll be very happy. 

[Red Skin]

12 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

you can sort of see why NP is bringing in the likes of simpson etc,he needs players he can trust with no potential profit so he can build the team around them because if he does get say,a fantastic striker in,  chances are striker would then get sold for profit and leave us short again.hence needing 5 or 6 windows to establish a team with team spirit and not a group of talented individuals

That's an interesting observation and one I hadn't considered.  Usually spunking lots of cash on older players wages isn't a strategy I'd favour.  However, there may be some real value in more experienced players next season as they may not command the wages they are used to be able to.

[bcfc01]

12 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

you can sort of see why NP is bringing in the likes of simpson etc,he needs players he can trust with no potential profit so he can build the team around them because if he does get say,a fantastic striker in,  chances are striker would then get sold for profit and leave us short again.hence needing 5 or 6 windows to establish a team with team spirit and not a group of talented individuals

The highlighted bit is key imo.

He's had enough time to see what he needs as well as some eyes and ears on the pitch and in the dressing room. It could have been a midfielder or centre back, but he needed at least one he knew he could count on. I'd expect more of the same in the short term.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Red Skin said:

That's an interesting observation and one I hadn't considered.  Usually spunking lots of cash on older players wages isn't a strategy I'd favour.  However, there may be some real value in more experienced players next season as they may not command the wages they are used to be able to.

The comfort I have is that he didn’t do that at Leicester.  He went for young, hungry players from Man Utd, like Drinkwater, De Laet, Matty James.