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Too short, by far


Hampshire Red

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Some interesting stats from an otherwise less than exciting gamve at home to Forest. In defensive aerial duties we are really poor this season and every other coach has worked out our frailties; 'Bentley' flaps at anytime in 'his' six yard box, it's been toeasy to get behind our FBs, we have little hieght not command agaisnt setpieces.

Kalas, IMO, has been very good but not quite as good as when he had Webster alongside him. Other than that we only have Fam who can win defensive headers and v Forest he only came on at 72 mins and still won 5 aerial headers. Kalas had 7, playing of course for 90 mins

Do you think this lack of height throughout the side has been a major issue all season? Certainly it is a total waste of time passing any ball high from midfield, defence of from Bents unless Fam is on the end of it. No-one else all season has won a header up front. In defense only Kalas and Fam win headers.

When you think of our more successful sides, I think we had more height, but i dont have the stats to prove it.

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6 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

Some interesting stats from an otherwise less than exciting gamve at home to Forest. In defensive aerial duties we are really poor this season and every other coach has worked out our frailties; 'Bentley' flaps at anytime in 'his' six yard box, it's been toeasy to get behind our FBs, we have little hieght not command agaisnt setpieces.

Kalas, IMO, has been very good but not quite as good as when he had Webster alongside him. Other than that we only have Fam who can win defensive headers and v Forest he only came on at 72 mins and still won 5 aerial headers. Kalas had 7, playing of course for 90 mins

Do you think this lack of height throughout the side has been a major issue all season? Certainly it is a total waste of time passing any ball high from midfield, defence of from Bents unless Fam is on the end of it. No-one else all season has won a header up front. In defense only Kalas and Fam win headers.

When you think of our more successful sides, I think we had more height, but i dont have the stats to prove it.

I would argue that although height plays a role, defensive organisation, concentration and shape play a bigger part in effective defence of set pieces.

We do have a few smaller/slighter players (Dasilva, Walsh, Massengo) but I don't think that's particularly unusual relative to our opponents.

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All depends how you want to play, doesn’t it?

Several on here have said this but we don’t appear to have any defined style & our scattergun recruitment just reflects that.

You don’t need to be tall to be effective in the air, Bailey Wright was barely 6ft yet was very good at using his body to completely nullify an opponent, I distinctly remember him doing it to Matt Smith, who we know is a giant.

As for a tall player up front that all depends on the quality of the pass, Bobby Reid up top with Paterson floating behind wasn’t exactly land of the giants but it was very effective & attractive to watch. Benik Afobe in those few games before his injury, too.

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52 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

All depends how you want to play, doesn’t it?

Several on here have said this but we don’t appear to have any defined style & our scattergun recruitment just reflects that.

You don’t need to be tall to be effective in the air, Bailey Wright was barely 6ft yet was very good at using his body to completely nullify an opponent, I distinctly remember him doing it to Matt Smith, who we know is a giant.

As for a tall player up front that all depends on the quality of the pass, Bobby Reid up top with Paterson floating behind wasn’t exactly land of the giants but it was very effective & attractive to watch. Benik Afobe in those few games before his injury, too.

Michael Owen never scored a header either did he? ?

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7 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I saw that ‘fact’ mentioned in a story some years ago, and actually went to the trouble of checking it as I couldn’t recall seeing a MO headed goal.

Quite an interesting revelation.

Skip to the 91st min 

 

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4 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

It was just one of those niggling doubts.

I read the comment, doubted its veracity, but just couldn't recall a headed goal - my check, of course, proved there were several, including for England as highlighted in your clip.

I loved that goal - it’s the only reason i remember it! 

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I don't think height explains everything by a long stretch. I immediately think of the first we conceded against QPR. Depending on where you look at stats, Ilias Chair is somewhere between 5 foot 2 and 5 foot 8. I suspect the latter is the correct figure but he certainly didn't score a fee header due to height advantage...

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I would say the best club side I have seen in my life time, Barcelona between 2008 - 2012 probably had an average height in total of about 5"10 , height means nothing, just provides different advantages whether it be short or tall

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36 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I would say the best club side I have seen in my life time, Barcelona between 2008 - 2012 probably had an average height in total of about 5"10 , height means nothing, just provides different advantages whether it be short or tall

The difference being that they had several of the world's very best small players. Us having a team of the Championship's most average small players isn't going to cut it!

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4 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Did anyone else open this expecting another LJ thread?

All good responses City fans except the usual waste-of-space Dante.

Reference to Messi and other short players is a fair comment as the OP is more about how important Fam has been to us over several seasons and how, without him we are exposed defensively to high balls in our defence. As to 'How we play' i think every team in our division has to defend high balls into their box' so a lack of height may be a factor?

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4 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I saw that ‘fact’ mentioned in a story some years ago, and actually went to the trouble of checking it as I couldn’t recall seeing a MO headed goal.

Quite an interesting revelation.

I was being sarcastic.  He scored headers for England off Beckham crosses.  At 5ft7in, proof that height isn’t everything....but good movement abd good delivery counts for a lot.

Any local footballers ever play against Roger Coke.  Was about 5ft7in too, but boy could he leap.  Incredible.

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28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I was being sarcastic.  He scored headers for England off Beckham crosses.  At 5ft7in, proof that height isn’t everything....but good movement abd good delivery counts for a lot.

Any local footballers ever play against Roger Coke.  Was about 5ft7in too, but boy could he leap.  Incredible.

Of course you were, hence your ?.

Nevertheless, I did read just such a statement some years ago and did have to check.

In case there was ever any doubt, however, our fellow poster, @Rob k , has provided documentary evidence to disprove the scurrilous suggestion.

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8 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Wouldn't be surprised if we see a big, tall centre back come in this summer. Pearson's Bristol City version of Robert Huth.

Elliott Moore of Oxford for example who is a giant. 

I think we looked better in the air at the back last weekend with Vyner centre back alongside Kalas.

Would be nice to feel more confident about us defending set pieces. A lot of it is down to organisation and hoping the opponent doesn't put in a great cross.

But having some big and strong players obviously makes it a lot easier to cope. We also don't have any real threat from attacking set pieces at the moment.

An interesting suggestion, as he was developed in the Leicester youth system so, quite likely, is already known to NP.

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I think it is in midfield that we are losing out on 50:50 aerial balls - HNM hardly wins anything in the air.  We need another Marvin Elliott style player with more physical presence.  Bakinson looked like he might be that player but has gone well off the boil. recently    Nagy not strong enough either nor Lansbury

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56 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I was being sarcastic.  He scored headers for England off Beckham crosses.  At 5ft7in, proof that height isn’t everything....but good movement abd good delivery counts for a lot.

Any local footballers ever play against Roger Coke.  Was about 5ft7in too, but boy could he leap.  Incredible.

Joe Bryan and Matt Hill the same.

I used to play with a keeper who was barely 5'9" and it was always the same - the opposition would automatically think "lump the ball in the air into the area, we'll have a field day". No chance, he could jump higher from a either a standing position or at a run than any forward I saw. Hands as big as shovels and couldn't be knocked off the ball in the air.

He was let go by Southampton at 17 as he was deemed too short, went into the forces and went on to represent the RAF as both a basketball player and goal keeper. 

If you are good enough, you are big enough.

 

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