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Mark Ashton Leaving (Merged)


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1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't think anyone thought that necessarily. The impression seems to be that (using LJ's spell as an example) it was a collective effort, as you'd expect, but there were certain players 'recommended' to Johnson if he told the recruitment team he needed X or Y. 

Realistically Johnson is going to know about the likes of Webster and Brownhill. He's far less likely to know about Diony, Engvall or Hegeler. That's where the recruitment team's database plays a role. 

The way people are going on in this thread, you'd have thought MA had sole control.

I'm an exile, so removed from local press, etc. But I just don't get the hate directed towards someone whose role wasn't fully understood. We don't know how much he influenced transfers, we don't know how much influence he had in selecting managers, we don't know what input he had to the medical team.

I am, however, fairly confident that as CEO he would have had input to the new training facilities. That's exactly the sort of area in which his involvement and support would be crucial.

 

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1 minute ago, SecretSam said:

The way people are going on in this thread, you'd have thought MA had sole control.

I'm an exile, so removed from local press, etc. But I just don't get the hate directed towards someone whose role wasn't fully understood. We don't know how much he influenced transfers, we don't know how much influence he had in selecting managers, we don't know what input he had to the medical team.

I am, however, fairly confident that as CEO he would have had input to the new training facilities. That's exactly the sort of area in which his involvement and support would be crucial.

 

It's pretty ambiguous - I think the general understanding seems to be that Ashton was closely aligned with certain agencies that represent players and we tended to sign a great deal of players from these 'rivers and lakes' or whatever it was he used to say.

Obviously then this makes things tricky as the manager may not want these players. We were assured that our managers have always had 'final say' on the players - as you'd hope and expect. You could have a situation then where Johnson or Holden have identified the need for a striker. Ashton and the recruitment team comes back with a list of 3 players; (Diony, Djuric or Engvall) and Johnson has to choose between them.

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A name mentioned by Gregor McGreggsface this morning in the Post is Richard Gould son of Bobby

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/bristol-city-consider-director-football-5295714.amp?__twitter_impression=true

He went to Backwell school for a while. He was a year or two below me but I remember him breaking a leg whilst playing in goal in a school house match. I was playing a couple of pitches down but heard the sickening crack of the bone and then an ambulance was on the pitch, they thought it was all over, it was for him. He left Backwell for Bristol Grammar and went on to Sandhurst and a military career. It would be interesting to have him as CEO. He is currently chief executive of Surrey County Cricket Club.

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's pretty ambiguous - I think the general understanding seems to be that Ashton was closely aligned with certain agencies that represent players and we tended to sign a great deal of players from these 'rivers and lakes' or whatever it was he used to say.

Obviously then this makes things tricky as the manager may not want these players. We were assured that our managers have always had 'final say' on the players - as you'd hope and expect. You could have a situation then where Johnson or Holden have identified the need for a striker. Ashton and the recruitment team comes back with a list of 3 players; (Diony, Djuric or Engvall) and Johnson has to choose between them.

If that's the case, that's ar53 backwards. Typically, as I understand it, under a continental-style system, the coaching team and DoF identify a list of players, then the Ashton equivalent goes out and gets one of them. The CEO type person does not, however, identify the list. That would be Coach+DoF

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From knowing him at BGS, he's a genuinely nice person, so not Ashton-style hate would be possible. Didn't know he was ex-military, but was at Gloucs CCC before Surrey. Would be interesting to see if he's tempted back. If he can run the Oval...he might consider us a step down?

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8 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Interesting that he mentions Gould at Surrey, whom I've flagged before as a good fit. And the fans couldn't hate him, he's the nicest man you could meet.

Same Richard Gould that was our Commercial Director in early 2000's?

How has that side of the Cricket club worked since he moved there? 

Depends how well he worked with SL before I guess, honestly can't remember how/why he left. Fairly mutual parting of the ways if I remember...

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19 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

But that also shows that Ashton wasn't the person responsible for identifying and bringing in players? At least not entirely...

We know that already. Ashton's analysts usually draw up a list of potential targets from their database and present that to the manager. Ashton then takes over negotiations. 

The only (publicised) times that LJ said something along the lines of "I want [insert player name]" was with Brownhill, Watkins and Webster as far as I'm aware. That says to me that all recruitment goes through Ashton, with some exceptions. 

Anyway, who cares. He's going now. 

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15 hours ago, downendcity said:

Given the commercially sensitive nature of his role, I would have thought that the minute the club knew of his departure ( whether that be MA handing in his notice, or by MA being put on the spot in view of the rumours flying around) that he would either be placed on gardening leave until his leaving day, or been let go without working his notice period.

In business though if you have a new job you'd normally work a period of notice, if nothing else to handover the role to someone so it's clear what they did.

I'm not sure leaving instantly would have any impact anyway, he'd know enough now anyway 

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Haha, just been chatting to my mate....he’s been sat next to MA at the barbers today, MA getting his beard trimmed.

Supposedly (idle chat with with barber) MA only decided on Sunday and SL asked him to change his mind this morning.

Spooky as my gardener was cutting someone's lawn as MA walked past on his mobile

Only pulling your leg.

One thing it does show is that SL was willing to drop everything and fly in to speak with MA but didn't see the appointment of NP as important to do so

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9 minutes ago, Taz said:

Same Richard Gould that was our Commercial Director in early 2000's?

How has that side of the Cricket club worked since he moved there? 

Depends how well he worked with SL before I guess, honestly can't remember how/why he left. Fairly mutual parting of the ways if I remember...

Widely acknowledged he turned Surrey around. 

The Oval is a much different place since he's been there,and in cricketing circles at least he's acknowledged for the work he's put in

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7 minutes ago, phantom said:

Widely acknowledged he turned Surrey around. 

The Oval is a much different place since he's been there,and in cricketing circles at least he's acknowledged for the work he's put in

Thanks, have absolutely no interest in Cricket at any level whatsoever so had no idea!

The club is a different beast now to when he was here previously, so someone like this could take it onto the next level and beyond from a commercial point of view at least, although we do seem to be doing fairly well on that front since the rebuild.

Be interesting to see if this talk is "paper talk" or whether there is some substance to it. 

Whatever happens, the next move(s) from SL will either push the club on and upwards, or if the next appointments (managerial and board level) are a  bit of sideways move, with the recent talk of outside investment, it could be his last throw of the dice.

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25 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

If that's the case, that's ar53 backwards. Typically, as I understand it, under a continental-style system, the coaching team and DoF identify a list of players, then the Ashton equivalent goes out and gets one of them. The CEO type person does not, however, identify the list. That would be Coach+DoF

I think you’re missing the point. The way it works here is that if the player was no good then Ashton was responsible. If they turned out to be any good, it was Johnson. Until that risks making Johnson look vaguely competent, in which case it was either down to an even earlier manager having had an interest, or failing that, Lady Luck. Seems a clear system to me. ??

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I think the appointment of Holden sealed Ashton’s fate.

If Ashton was the person to back Holden then he should have left because the whole process was a sham.

If Steve Lansdown told Ashton that Holden should be appointed then it would have been clear to Ashton that his decision making ability and his days were numbered.

 

I’d like to read Ashton CV and what he regards as successes during his time here. 
From the outside I’d give him a 4 or 5 out of 10, I.e nothing great or horrendous happened.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Rich_s said:

I think the appointment of Holden sealed Ashton’s fate.

If Ashton was the person to back Holden then he should have left because the whole process was a sham.

If Steve Lansdown told Ashton that Holden should be appointed then it would have been clear to Ashton that his decision making ability and his days were numbered.

 

I’d like to read Ashton CV and what he regards as successes during his time here. 
From the outside I’d give him a 4 or 5 out of 10, I.e nothing great or horrendous happened.

 

 

I think his legacy success will be mostly commercial, so player sales will be part of that, but there are  revenue streams a other than football where his success lies.

If you follow@Davefevson twitter he has produced some interesting statistical information. Most of his big sales were players recruited before his time or academy products. There are also a lot of flops in that time, and some very marquee type successes most notably the buying and selling of Adam Webster, But equally notable is that we are yet to replace him with a centre back alongside Kalas.
 

 

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45 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

From knowing him at BGS, he's a genuinely nice person, so not Ashton-style hate would be possible. Didn't know he was ex-military, but was at Gloucs CCC before Surrey. Would be interesting to see if he's tempted back. If he can run the Oval...he might consider us a step down?

Somerset I think, rather than Gloucs. Brother to PNE goalkeeping coach.

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23 minutes ago, BetterRedthenBlue said:

I say appoint Walsh as DoF and bring in Gould for the general day to day running of the club. 

I do feel we could benefit from both. What concerns me slightly (and I appreciate lots of that article will be educated guesswork) is not knowing what direction we want to go in.

The choices fundamentally appear to be

  1. A football man (ie a DoF)
  2. An administrator with commercial nous

Ashton appeared to try and be both of those things but I believe they are roles that require specialists in both. One to focus on DoF activities such as player ID and one to focus on sponsorship, filling the corporate facilities and finding investment. 

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't think anyone thought that necessarily. The impression seems to be that (using LJ's spell as an example) it was a collective effort, as you'd expect, but there were certain players 'recommended' to Johnson if he told the recruitment team he needed X or Y. 

Realistically Johnson is going to know about the likes of Webster and Brownhill. He's far less likely to know about Diony, Engvall or Hegeler. That's where the recruitment team's database plays a role. 

And my issues are whether the right due diligence was done all the way through the process as well as whether there was critical analysis of previous signings, e.g. you know that last £1.5m we spent, how did that work out?

34 minutes ago, CiderJar said:

I think his legacy success will be mostly commercial, so player sales will be part of that, but there are  revenue streams a other than football where his success lies.

If you follow@Davefevson twitter he has produced some interesting statistical information. Most of his big sales were players recruited before his time or academy products. There are also a lot of flops in that time, and some very marquee type successes most notably the buying and selling of Adam Webster, But equally notable is that we are yet to replace him with a centre back alongside Kalas.
 

 

I’m really interested in Gregor’s claim that MA found new revenue streams.  Any evidence?  Or were these revenue streams initiated from Bristol Sport Commercial Dept or Ashton Gate Ltd (Kelly)?

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Just now, Davefevs said:

And my issues are whether the right due diligence was done all the way through the process as well as whether there was critical analysis of previous signings, e.g. you know that last £1.5m we spent, how did that work out?

I’m really interested in Gregor’s claim that MA found new revenue streams.  Any evidence?  Or were these revenue streams initiated from Bristol Sport Commercial Dept or Ashton Gate Ltd (Kelly)?

I would love to know more about how we ID players. For example, I find it hard to believe that LJ would've known of Hegeler/Diony/Engvall/Eliasson etc off hand. He might've done I suppose, but they're very obscure players to just 'know'.

How does the process work after their identified? I remember LJ's account of identifying Eliasson. He said he looked on the database for a player similar to Anthony Knockaert and Eliasson was the closest. In that instance the system clearly worked, but was the same process followed for Hegeler/Djuric/Diony etc and all the other more obscure signings. Likewise Taylor Moore also. 

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1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

From knowing him at BGS, he's a genuinely nice person, so not Ashton-style hate would be possible. Didn't know he was ex-military, but was at Gloucs CCC before Surrey. Would be interesting to see if he's tempted back. If he can run the Oval...he might consider us a step down?

 He was at Somerset CC before Surrey CC ...it was Colin Sextone his boss at AG who went to Glos CC 

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14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And my issues are whether the right due diligence was done all the way through the process as well as whether there was critical analysis of previous signings, e.g. you know that last £1.5m we spent, how did that work out?

I’m really interested in Gregor’s claim that MA found new revenue streams.  Any evidence?  Or were these revenue streams initiated from Bristol Sport Commercial Dept or Ashton Gate Ltd (Kelly)?

Yes, a very good point and an example of where Mark Ashton was around for the good news and absent when things weren't going well and his accountability was always equally absent (always another fall guy ahead of him at the cliff face).

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Just now, AshtonYate said:

Bit gutted about this.  I know he wasn't a popular choice with the fans, oddly because of his personality, but he did what he needed to do.  Good luck Mark, I think you did a great job.  Watch Ipswich get to the prem before us now. 

Because of Mark Ashton? Unlikely. Maybe with new money coming in and the astute appointment of Paul Cook, but if it happens Mark Ashton will only be a small cog in the wheel.

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13 minutes ago, AshtonYate said:

Bit gutted about this.  I know he wasn't a popular choice with the fans, oddly because of his personality, but he did what he needed to do.  Good luck Mark, I think you did a great job.  Watch Ipswich get to the prem before us now. 

Hmm, back again solely to praise the departing CEO.

What he needed to do was sign good players, improve the squad and manage contracts professionally. He manifestly did not.

You seem more of a Mark Ashton fan than a Bristol City fan, frankly.

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15 minutes ago, CiderJar said:

Because of Mark Ashton? Unlikely. Maybe with new money coming in and the astute appointment of Paul Cook, but if it happens Mark Ashton will only be a small cog in the wheel.

But everyone seem to think he was a big wheel here looking at the reaction.  Funny how he is a big wheel here, but a small cog if Ipswich do well. ?

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