Recruitment for Summer 2021

[Harry]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree with a lot of that list in terms of Championship targets, though I would ask why some possibles aren't on there. I finally got around to starting my Spreadsheet on free agents in the top 2 divisions the other day.

Will freely admit I don't know so much about Leagues below the Championship. 

Anyway, possibles at this level.

Would eg if they became available Smith and Femenia- Bournemouth and Watford RB, Cook and Kabasele again Bournemouth and Watford CB not be on a notional list? 

McIntyre of Reading is approaching the end of his contract, age 22- room for growth, reasonable gametime for a playoff chasing side. 

Like the suggestion by @Davefevs of Iorfa. Year left on deal definitely one to consider.

Nat Phillips it's unclear if he is free but would it be worth putting in for him on loan if not?

Matty James due to his Leicester connection with Pearson, think that would make sense too as per @JonDolman . 

Or are players such Femenia, Smith, Cook, Kabasele and Phillips unrealistic at this stage? Femenia and Kabasele would remember Pearson from Watford though.

James is on the list. 
Femenia, Kabasele, Cook, Smith - all on big wages. 
As I mentioned on the opening post, I wasn’t looking at all free agents, but tried to narrow it down to the reduced budget that SL has mentioned and the ‘clever’ recruitment Pearson has alluded to. I think anyone on a big wage from a team in the top 6 in this league is probably unrealistic. 

[Philly The Kid]

Great Article and well researched.
What surprises me is that post covid football must be subject to a massive change. Players simply cannot command the same wages they did, and financial issues at clubs such as Reading etc means many will be sold and those ooc will have to take what's offered and be in no position to demand unrealistic wages. Therefore, I simply cannot understand why some (If not all) of our players who are ooc this summer haven't looked like they're playing for a contract. Fair enough if you're injured then you're relying on past performances to get you an offer but those that have played and looked disinterested and down tools have taken a massive gamble on their futures. You'd think the agents would've had a word and said "you ain't getting the big deals next contract so make my job easier by making an effort and upping the performance ante"
Some of the dross we've had this season will be lucky to pick up division one contracts next year.

[Numero Uno]

10 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Surely they don't all earn the same?

Of course not but this isn’t about how much, it’s about one player in a squad getting a fantastic offer (leaked by Teflon to Sky Sports) whilst the rest, every other player out of contract, has to wait until the end of the season with all the uncertainty that brings. Not only that but the bloke receiving the offer has barely lifted a finger since.

Say what you like but if that happened to you in work you would probably think sod that. If that isn’t the reason many of our lot downed tools I would be interested to know what the reason is.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Harry said:

James is on the list. 
Femenia, Kabasele, Cook, Smith - all on big wages. 
As I mentioned on the opening post, I wasn’t looking at all free agents, but tried to narrow it down to the reduced budget that SL has mentioned and the ‘clever’ recruitment Pearson has alluded to. I think anyone on a big wage from a team in the top 6 in this league is probably unrealistic. 

If the contracts of those 4 players are up, then they might find that in the current financial landscape their pulling power falls although I think if not renewed they will be well sought after.

Could the past playing under Pearson make it more likely we can sign eg Femenia, Kabasele or both for lower wages. Utilisation of contacts though he wasn't there for long.

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I think the “killer” for many of the players would have been news of an offer being made to Fam. In dressing rooms if people are treated the same even if it’s not what they want to hear that’s one thing........once favouritism is sensed you’ve lost every player.

23 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Surely they don't all earn the same?

No, and although players might not like it, it’s kind of accepted (by most) that there will be disparity, some of that purely based on when you signed your latest contract.  In inflationary times someone of similar ability to you just signing a contract is likely to have got more than you did last year.

Obviously, some players (and agents) are happy to try to rock the boat regularly to keep pace.  Some manage it, some don’t..

But this scenario was not about wage parity, but one player being offered a “fantastic offer” (or whatever the exact words were) and the rest of the squad being told because of Covid that they couldn’t be offered anything.

It was an epic fail by the CEO from my outside view looking in.

[GrahamC]

48 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

This really becomes a Work Permit debate.

Does the player qualify through international caps and ranking of country, and / or domestic appearances and ranking of league, etc....and if they do, are they still good value (they could be OOC of course - that would help).

Basically anyone playing in top-flight France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Holland, Belgium, certain S.American countries (possibly some others) will pass the WP points system.

Most players playing for top ranked nations will pass too.

Some examples.

Diedhiou - was playing top flight France

Kodjia - was playing second tier France, and even though Angers got promoted (which scores points) he probably just misses out by a point or two

Nagy - was playing Serie A had he still been at Ferencvaros he might just have scraped in on international caps as Hungary are inside top 50..

Elias Kachunga - if he was still playing Bundesliga.2

Antony Knockaert - Guincamp in Lg2 France

So, league standing very important.

Brentford were heavily scouting the second tier in France, but now know that nobody will meet WP reqs so have got rid of that scout(s).

Thomas Henry to quote one of Harry’s targets - Leuvens, top flight (Jupiler League) Belgium but with 2 years left on contract, transfermarkt values him at £3.15m.  Question is whether that’s value or not.

All good fun though.

 

Read a really interesting article on this the other day.

Basically post Brexit it is all to do with the coefficient of the league, not the nationality, so for instance someone playing in Russia with good stats might qualify now when they wouldn’t have done so before.

Think the guy West Brom have on loan (striker, can’t remember the name) did so as a result of this.

[Finley_Smith10]

I know it’s a probably a long shot but Balogun has just signed a new contract at Arsenal. Maybe they might send him out on loan, had a lot of interest however minutes would be important at his stage of career

[Rob k]

@Davefevs @Harry Probs not one for us but i was watching that Brennan Johnson, struck me as a young lad that finished his chances nicely - is he rated?

[BLRed]

Whilst people are mentioning right backs, a loan for the Man Utd right back currently on loan at Mk dons would be decent Ethan laird.

 

at left back, I wonder if we should also keep tabs on Sorinola also at mk dons

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Read a really interesting article on this the other day.

Basically post Brexit it is all to do with the coefficient of the league, not the nationality, so for instance someone playing in Russia with good stats might qualify now when they wouldn’t have done so before.

Think the guy West Brom have on loan (striker, can’t remember the name) did so as a result of this.

Yes, exactly that.

Really good article here:

https://worldfootballindex.com/2020/12/work-permits-premier-league-post-brexit-english-clubs-efl-libertadores/

5 minutes ago, Rob k said:

@Davefevs @Harry Probs not one for us but i was watching that Brennan Johnson, struck me as a young lad that finished his chances nicely - is he rated?

Yes, unfortunately he’s rated by Forest!

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, BOSRed said:

Whilst people are mentioning right backs, a loan for the Man Utd right back currently on loan at Mk dons would be decent Ethan laird.

 

at left back, I wonder if we should also keep tabs on Sorinola also at mk dons

Lot of discussion about him today on my EFL Fanalysts Group.  Bit of a mixed reaction....possibly erring on not ready for champ yet.

[1960maaan]

52 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It was an epic fail by the CEO from my outside view looking in.

Probably inside looking out too
Good chance it pissed off one or two players that were hoping for a new deal, and it's made it difficult to sign Fam now. I doubt very much the same contract will be on offer at the end of the season.

[Rob k]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, exactly that.

Really good article here:

https://worldfootballindex.com/2020/12/work-permits-premier-league-post-brexit-english-clubs-efl-libertadores/

Yes, unfortunately he’s rated by Forest!

Fair enough - I’d not heard of him until i was watching the other night and saw him finish one of his chances.

[Taz]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

I think the “killer” for many of the players would have been news of an offer being made to Fam. In dressing rooms if people are treated the same even if it’s not what they want to hear that’s one thing........once favouritism is sensed you’ve lost every player.

Most ridiculous comment of the season (Ashton's not you @Numero Uno), and to be honest thinking back, it's probably around that time that the rot really sank in.

I think you're spot on with what you say. If you have a player that only turns up every few games, others tend to work a bit harder to facilitate them, knowing that a spark could happen at any time (Jet comes to mind). 

If however you have a player that has clearly stopped playing to their potential, bar the odd game (Middlesbrough especially), but some higher up comes out and publicly says "their value to us is on the pitch" whilst trying to generate a last minute sale because their contract is winding down, and stating that they've offered said player one of, if not the best contract in the history of the club (whilst some hadn't been offered anything) that is going to get under the skin of most.

When that player is then left in the side, regardless of performances put in, others are going to think - what's the point!?

Interesting that Pearson has now dropped him to the bench, and now the announcement is made about Ashton leaving. 

[Davefevs]

44 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Fair enough - I’d not heard of him until i was watching the other night and saw him finish one of his chances.

I first heard of him when their Academy team stuffed ours last season:

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/report-u23s-1-3-nottingham-forest-u23s/

Seem to recall the live twitter feed being all about him.  Then found out he was former Ipswich (and Forest) striker David Johnson’s son.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, Rob k said:

@Davefevs @Harry Probs not one for us but i was watching that Brennan Johnson, struck me as a young lad that finished his chances nicely - is he rated?

Yeah I do like the look of him to be fair but he didn’t make my list as he’s at a team (Forest) who would never let him go to a division rival. 

1 hour ago, BOSRed said:

Whilst people are mentioning right backs, a loan for the Man Utd right back currently on loan at Mk dons would be decent Ethan laird.

 

at left back, I wonder if we should also keep tabs on Sorinola also at mk dons

Yes, Laird is someone I was definitely looking at but I don’t have enough of a body of work to look at just yet. Does seem to be doing well at MK though. 
 

Man Utd have a few defenders out on loan at the moment who I’m gonna be keeping tabs on. Laird at MK, Di’Shonn Bernard at Salford & Teden Mengi at Derby. 
 

[the1stknowle]

13 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

I turned Ostigard into a £100m player on championship manager- he does need some strong man management but he followed me from Sevilla to Dortmund and finally Man City - on this proviso he is a must signing for me.

Great read mate- Mowatt yes please, and I have liked O’Hare has really impressed me this season.

Ashley Fletcher is utter Pony Trap though.

Hopefully an interesting summer ahead, how important is it to get the manager situation sorted quickly with this talent pool you have laid out potentially up for grabs?

Nah, Ashley Fletcher is really talented but totally unfulfilled potential. You could see him finding a club where he settles one day and having 2 or 3 really good seasons. 

Lewis O'Brien is class but he will be going somewhere a bit fancier than us, surely. Same with Mowatt? Could he not get a prem move on a free? Or at worst a relegated team would pick him up. 

Scott Twine looks like a player and realistic. And Joe Rothwell too (didnt realise he was as old as 26). Jed Wallace - LJ loves him, no? Sunderland will 100% go for him if promoted. Always looks good when he plays us.

For me, right back - at least one, maybe two - is priority position. We lose the ball so much in full back position. 

And I would be fine with every OOC player leaving except Walsh and Baker (although I know Im on my own on that last one.)

Really good original post. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Fletcher. Good player for sure and some room for growth but he missed months through injury this season I believe. With our record in that department, I'd think carefully.

2 names, decent players but with uncertain contractual status and how would Brexit impact?

Bacuna at Huddersfield. Gone off the boil a bit from earlier but good record last season. 23, room for growth.

Also at Huddersfield, Mbenza? Quite productive this season. 25, good age.

Contractual status unclear with both ie whether club have an option etc, how would Brexit impact out of contract Championship players?

PL, Brady and Schlupp out of contract- latter worked with Pearson, think both are 28, 29, or would they be just too pricy?

Kean Bryan. Has started getting some gametime with Sheffield United. 24, CB and LB/LWB. Linked with Watford and Swansea in latter it suggested he could be a replacement for Guehi.

That in turn could set a domino effect into play. Ben Wilmot of Watford is 21 and supposed to be highly rated. If they sign Bryan, could be want out? Would he have played under Pearson at Watford.

Again some or all of these could be unrealistic financially or level wise but variety of names to throw into the mix.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, the1stknowle said:

Nah, Ashley Fletcher is really talented but totally unfulfilled potential. You could see him finding a club where he settles one day and having 2 or 3 really good seasons.

I think Fletcher would be a good fit for us playing-style wise....but his injuries record worries me.  I suppose with a clean injury record he probably wouldn’t be OOC?  Swings and roundabouts

Lewis O'Brien is class but he will be going somewhere a bit fancier than us, surely.

think you’re right, but I thought last summer that Joe Williams would end up somewhere bigger than us.

Same with Mowatt? Could he not get a prem move on a free? Or at worst a relegated team would pick him up.

same as above

Scott Twine looks like a player and realistic.

certainly strikes a fine moving ball.  You could really bully Swindon, even more so if relegated

And Joe Rothwell too (didnt realise he was as old as 26). Jed Wallace - LJ loves him, no? Sunderland will 100% go for him if promoted. Always looks good when he plays us.

I like Wallace, but do you ever get that worry that he’s so Mr Millwall from a playing point of view, whoever might sign him might not see the same player?

For me, right back - at least one, maybe two - is priority position. We lose the ball so much in full back position.

Part of the problem is lack of passing options inside.  The other part has become the reliance on clipping down the channel.  Someone like O’Brien would always look to make that passing option.

And I would be fine with every OOC player leaving except Walsh and Baker (although I know Im on my own on that last one.)

Couple of other players:

Keane Lewis-Potter and Malik Wilkes (Hull)...but I think if Hull come up they will cost too much.  Wilkes would be a good fit for the right sided “forward”.  Lewis-Potter a bit more advanced than where L.Walsh might operate.

Really good original post. 

[marcofisher]

Am I delusional in thinking a fit and well coached Walsh could be as good if not better than Mowatt? 

[Rossineri]

Would be great to sign Jed Wallace.

A dominant C Half is a key signing for us.

Fashion Sakala is a striker to go for but wages may be high. 

[SuperRed]

@Harry Any thoughts on Jack Whatmough who is out of contract at Portsmouth? 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/football/portsmouth-fc/out-of-contract-portsmouth-defender-jack-whatmough-is-destined-for-the-championship-3200681%3famp

I have never seen him play but sounds like the kind of profile we should be looking at. Seems to have had injury problems in the past but has had a good run this season. 

 

[GrahamC]

11 hours ago, marcofisher said:

Am I delusional in thinking a fit and well coached Walsh could be as good if not better than Mowatt? 

Anything is possible of course but he has to actually get on the pitch occasionally first.

I find this Walsh stuff on here really quite remarkable, he has 25 games in League One & suddenly loads of people are claiming that he’s a top six Championship player & “could be better” than someone who has actually driven his unfashionable side to a playoff spot, not spent virtually the entire season injured.

Some evidence here that doesn’t consist of dominating games against the likes of Rochdale & the blue few would be really nice.

8 starts in well over 3 years with us at Championship level, (in contrast Massengo has already started 36 in 18 months less) this is a leap of faith that would even impress Bob Beamon.

[Davefevs]

@Harry now built my Lg1 Defender Dashboard, so I thought I’d add your suggestions, Ballard, Moore, Tucker and Burke together with a couple / few mentioned by others, McGuiness, Williams and Atkinson.

Summary:

Good goal contributions from Moore and Burke, whilst Ballard has 2 in 17.

Defensive:

Ballard, McGuinness and Moore high up on number of duels, all 7 bar Ballard win a good share of aerials.  Not gonna add much to the discussion re fouls and cards.  They’re CBS, what do you expect!

Tackling / Interceptions:

McGuinness the one who slide tackles significantly more than the others, and more than division average.  Sane for interceptions.  Is that down to his style, e.g. plays on the edge of his team?  They are all above average in blocks bar Moore.  Some might see that as a good thing.  Received passes probably highlights team style more than the player himself.

Passing:

pretty much all comfortable, progressive passers except Tucker (Gills rumoured long ball approach).

Scatter: Duels vs Wins

Shout, if anyone has any Qs.

Just thought it would be good to compare against each other.

[mozo]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Harry now built my Lg1 Defender Dashboard, so I thought I’d add your suggestions, Ballard, Moore, Tucker and Burke together with a couple / few mentioned by others, McGuiness, Williams and Atkinson.

Summary:

Good goal contributions from Moore and Burke, whilst Ballard has 2 in 17.

Defensive:

Ballard, McGuinness and Moore high up on number of duels, all 7 bar Ballard win a good share of aerials.  Not gonna add much to the discussion re fouls and cards.  They’re CBS, what do you expect!

Tackling / Interceptions:

McGuinness the one who slide tackles significantly more than the others, and more than division average.  Sane for interceptions.  Is that down to his style, e.g. plays on the edge of his team?  They are all above average in blocks bar Moore.  Some might see that as a good thing.  Received passes probably highlights team style more than the player himself.

Passing:

pretty much all comfortable, progressive passers except Tucker (Gills rumoured long ball approach).

Scatter: Duels vs Wins

Shout, if anyone has any Qs.

Just thought it would be good to compare against each other.

Dave could you stop faffing around on this forum and just sign a couple of those players for us? Invoice Lansdown. Don't forget your finders fee.

[SecretSam]

Gregor's been paying attention to this thread!

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/sheffield-wednesday-barnsley-fulham-men-5298256

[Harry]

10 hours ago, SuperRed said:

@Harry Any thoughts on Jack Whatmough who is out of contract at Portsmouth? 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/football/portsmouth-fc/out-of-contract-portsmouth-defender-jack-whatmough-is-destined-for-the-championship-3200681%3famp

I have never seen him play but sounds like the kind of profile we should be looking at. Seems to have had injury problems in the past but has had a good run this season. 

 

Hiya. Yes, I do like Whatmough. He’s someone who was brought to our attention back in 12/13 when we first started scouting Webster & Wallace at Pompey - he was coming through the academy at the same time. 
I believe he’s ooc this year but he’s had a few serious knee injuries from memory, so is probably someone I wouldn’t take a gamble on, but I’d imagine he’ll find himself in the Champ next season. 

[Harry]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@Harry now built my Lg1 Defender Dashboard, so I thought I’d add your suggestions, Ballard, Moore, Tucker and Burke together with a couple / few mentioned by others, McGuiness, Williams and Atkinson.

Summary:

Good goal contributions from Moore and Burke, whilst Ballard has 2 in 17.

Defensive:

Ballard, McGuinness and Moore high up on number of duels, all 7 bar Ballard win a good share of aerials.  Not gonna add much to the discussion re fouls and cards.  They’re CBS, what do you expect!

Tackling / Interceptions:

McGuinness the one who slide tackles significantly more than the others, and more than division average.  Sane for interceptions.  Is that down to his style, e.g. plays on the edge of his team?  They are all above average in blocks bar Moore.  Some might see that as a good thing.  Received passes probably highlights team style more than the player himself.

Passing:

pretty much all comfortable, progressive passers except Tucker (Gills rumoured long ball approach).

Scatter: Duels vs Wins

Shout, if anyone has any Qs.

Just thought it would be good to compare against each other.

Cheers for that Dave. 
Certainly seems from the stats that they are all ranked as ‘above average’ at that level. Given their age, that shows they’re all gonna be playing at a higher level no doubt. 
I’m surprised at Moore’s low duel stats I must say. McGuinness seems to rank the best - although I’m not brilliant at analysing these things so please correct me if I’m wrong

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Harry said:

Cheers for that Dave. 
Certainly seems from the stats that they are all ranked as ‘above average’ at that level. Given their age, that shows they’re all gonna be playing at a higher level no doubt. 
I’m surprised at Moore’s low duel stats I must say. McGuinness seems to rank the best - although I’m not brilliant at analysing these things so please correct me if I’m wrong

To be honest, I use them to get a feel for strengths and weaknesses compared to others.  I don’t lose too much sleep if someone makes 2 passes more p90 than someone else, mainly looking for outliers.  Plus as I said you have to take team style into account too.

You could have two CBs where one is the ball winner and one drops off, so it’s a back up to the eye in the main.

Obviously, if you’re looking at players you’ve never seen, e.g. from another country it’s a useful starting point.

Been having a quick look at Matt Jay tonight.  He’s having a great season.  These are filtered on 25 and under, who’ve played 1000mins+

 

 

 

[BLRed]

For me, ostigaard and mcguinnes at cb would be good. I would still love it if we brought back benkovic however.

matt Jay to replace the hopefully outgoing pato
 

jephcott or humphries to replace fam

matt james if we don’t re-sign walsh although sign matt James anyway.

callum Brittain to replace hunt if Barnsley don’t go up is my preference but cost could be high but alternatives could be re-sign sessegnon On loan or I would like us to loan laird with a view to buy. Highly rated at united and although not yet top champ quality, could quickly get there so get in whilst value is low.