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Tommy Rowe

GrahamC

By GrahamC
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Numero Uno

Numero Uno

Posted
Posted

There isn't one out of contract player in this squad that I would argue strongly in favour of keeping. In fact, there are quite a few I literally cannot wait to see eff off in the next couple of months including Dave and the rest I am more than happy to go with whatever NP decides upon and if it's a no from him then don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

There isn't one out of contract player in this squad that I would argue strongly in favour of keeping. In fact, there are quite a few I literally cannot wait to see eff off in the next couple of months including Dave and the rest I am more than happy to go with whatever NP decides upon and if it's a no from him then don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.

I think Weimann will get a new deal / club exercise their option, and also Walsh.

I had hoped Baker might come back for the final 10-12 and at least give NP a decision.  But that ship has sailed.

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Numero Uno

Numero Uno

Posted
Posted
Just now, Davefevs said:

I think Weimann will get a new deal / club exercise their option, and also Walsh.

I had hoped Baker might come back for the final 10-12 and at least give NP a decision.  But that ship has sailed.

Weimann tbf I wouldn't mind if NP decides he can make use of him. Walsh I literally could not care either way right now. He hasn't done anything for us yet except cost us a shed load of money in fee, wages and medical bills so I'll go with whatever NP decides. I would kick Baker's arse out the door personally.............I think we need something a bit more resilient back there, it's not like he's a £5K per week player either.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Weimann tbf I wouldn't mind if NP decides he can make use of him. Walsh I literally could not care either way right now. He hasn't done anything for us yet except cost us a shed load of money in fee, wages and medical bills so I'll go with whatever NP decides. I would kick Baker's arse out the door personally.............I think we need something a bit more resilient back there, it's not like he's a £5K per week player either.

The reason I say Walsh, is because NP has spoken positively about him, I think he likes him, so will offer him a deal.

I still want to see 6-8 games from him in a city shirt....I’ve yet to make up my mind.

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Numero Uno

Numero Uno

Posted
Posted
Just now, Davefevs said:

The reason I say Walsh, is because NP has spoken positively about him, I think he likes him, so will offer him a deal.

I still want to see 6-8 games from him in a city shirt....I’ve yet to make up my mind.

Totally agree, but if NP likes him based on what he's seen then fine, I'm happy to go with that. He won't be on silly money either. I would have far more of an issue if the likes of Fam and Baker who are on silly money and have given us nothing for far too long ended up signing new contracts.

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Rudolf Hucker

Rudolf Hucker

Posted
Posted

To me, the problem with several players in our squad, especially Hunt and Rowe, is that they seem to be happiest playing the ball backward towards our goal rather than forward towards the opposition’s. Playing back is sometimes necessary, enables ball retention, is generally safer and risk averse but gives us little advantage, just losing us ground. These two have turned it into an art form interspersed with all too frequent, careless yahoos into touch. 
 

Neither player is going to take us close to moving towards the top of the Championship and beyond. Time to make change; time to be more ruthless. 

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Taylor10

Taylor10

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4 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Remember reading the overkill on here when he made that terrible mistake at Coventry “the worst player to ever play for us” apparently.

Although he didn’t have the influence on today’s game of others I would be willing to bet that he is one of very few that are out of contract that we offer fresh terms to.

There was one superb tackle on Harris second half & his availability, commitment & professionalism stands out.

I do think we have real issues at right back (Hunt was poor again today & Simpson at 34 is merely a stop gap) but with Dasilva not someone you can bank on to play 30+ games I reckon TR will still be with us next season.

To offer a bit of balance on the over reaction from Coventry, there was also some serious overkill when praising Rowe in a thread earlier in the season as well. In fact I think someone, possibly Lew-T (apologies if it was not you Lew) described him as 'our James Milner' ?. Both examples classic OTIB although the stick he got after Cov was way over the top.

Regarding Rowe being offered a new deal, sorry Graham I have to disagree. I think it says a lot about the poor standard of player in recent years we as fans have been subjected to if we are judging players on their commitment over an obvious lack of ability. Tommy has clearly been a good pro and gives his all but he just isn't up to the level required. I cant fault his commitment but I would be really underwhelmed if he is here next season. I think its time to move him on and I would be surprised if big Nige decides to keep him.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

To me, the problem with several players in our squad, especially Hunt and Rowe, is that they seem to be happiest playing the ball backward towards our goal rather than forward towards the opposition’s. Playing back is sometimes necessary, enables ball retention, is generally safer and risk averse but gives us little advantage, just losing us ground. These two have turned it into an art form interspersed with all too frequent, careless yahoos into touch. 
 

Neither player is going to take us close to moving towards the top of the Championship and beyond. Time to make change; time to be more ruthless. 

Just for info, I’ve been building some data for Championship midfielders in terms of:

1. Numbers of passes per 90 - back (red) / lateral (grey) / forwards (green)

6B0F68B8-1892-4A75-8F23-E634DD95F246.thumb.jpeg.1246a50fe62ffa6ea67d5637b5b13f96.jpeg
 

2. Percentage of passes - same key

3593ACA6-5229-43A6-B2F6-461221954566.thumb.jpeg.acdf90e159c006444b7fbebb2eef75a0.jpeg

I need to add some more detail, but gives you a discussion point.

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IAmNick

IAmNick

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just for info, I’ve been building some data for Championship midfielders in terms of:

1. Numbers of passes per 90 - back (red) / lateral (grey) / forwards (green)

6B0F68B8-1892-4A75-8F23-E634DD95F246.thumb.jpeg.1246a50fe62ffa6ea67d5637b5b13f96.jpeg
 

2. Percentage of passes - same key

3593ACA6-5229-43A6-B2F6-461221954566.thumb.jpeg.acdf90e159c006444b7fbebb2eef75a0.jpeg

I need to add some more detail, but gives you a discussion point.

That's interesting, especially the second one - thanks.

I wonder if you could you do another - but scale it depending on where the ball was picked up?

If we compare O'Dowda and Vyner, at a guess one will predominantly be picking the ball up with a lot of more the pitch "forwards" than the other. Maybe that's not what you're trying to show, but it'd be interesting to see if it was a trait of the player to pass backwards, or a symptom of where the pick up the ball. Is O'Dowda playing backwards most because that's his instinct, or is it because he's often the most advanced player we have?

You could score each position based on the distance up the pitch, and scale the pass direction accordingly - so a backward pass picked up in the middle of our half would count a lot more than a backwards one picked up on the opposition box. Or maybe that's unfair as you'd expect a backward pass more in our own half as it's a different phase of play where it's less detrimental to do so - hmm...

Stats eh! Interesting graphs though regardless as I said... there's always going to be more than can be added.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

That's interesting, especially the second one - thanks.

I wonder if you could you do another - but scale it depending on where the ball was picked up?

If we compare O'Dowda and Vyner, at a guess one will predominantly be picking the ball up with a lot of more the pitch "forwards" than the other. Maybe that's not what you're trying to show, but it'd be interesting to see if it was a trait of the player to pass backwards, or a symptom of where the pick up the ball. Is O'Dowda playing backwards most because that's his instinct, or is it because he's often the most advanced player we have?

You could score each position based on the distance up the pitch, and scale the pass direction accordingly - so a backward pass picked up in the middle of our half would count a lot more than a backwards one picked up on the opposition box.

Stats eh! Interesting graphs though regardless as I said... there's always going to be more than can be added.

Unfortunately I don’t have the data to do that, hence “spark discussion” comment.  And you nailed the “accuracy of the data” from a position of where does the player receive it and which way are they facing.

Its why you can’t take one piece of data on its own.

If I throw in this one too:

Progressive passes (x) vs progressive pass accuracy (y) per 90, you build a bit more into the discussion.  For full-backs I do a progressive runs v progressive passes.

9A38F400-5FDB-4C03-BDE0-81436724845F.thumb.jpeg.ce113d643ff997cf1017c4c89c542594.jpeg

size of blob = goals + assists per 90.

Heres one which shows progressive runs.A5CC717E-321D-4200-B99C-6600E3FE4087.thumb.jpeg.59700ed2085a632947a38b965102a7c0.jpeg

So O’Dowda runs forward then passes backwards - only joking, just waiting for @JonDolman’s reaction ???

 

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Swede

Swede

Posted
Posted

He was only ever going to be a back up. Both our fulbacks don't have pace and that's a real recipe for disaster and that has been a constant problem all season. I would expect an overhaul in both positions.

NP has shored up the central defence positions and with Bents or O'Leary behind we have the makings of a better defensive unit. We just need two pacey fulbacks.

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marcofisher

marcofisher

Posted
Posted

From a more pragmatical perspective, Rowe is good value when you consider him to be a capable Championship backup on League 1 wages.

 

That being said Pring or Nurse are better value if they look good enough to be back up. 
 

For the record, I would be happy with Rowe as backup if JD played 30-40 matches a season, but unfortunately that isn’t the case; I think it’s likely we may have to upgrade.

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Silvio Dante

Silvio Dante

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, glynriley said:

Gone back to Doncaster

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-secure-return-for-former-skipper-tommy-rowe-3283958

 

Good news. Solid pro, never gave any more than his best, just not up to this level anymore. Very definition of an underwhelming initial signing and mainly due to Jays injuries, played more than I’d imagine anyone envisaged and also probably did better than anyone envisaged. 
 

 Best of luck to him 

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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Posted

What’s the deal with footballers?

You expect them to give their best & to play for the team.

Tommy Rowe always did that, he probably didn’t expect to end up playing more games at left back in both his seasons than anyone else, but although his form deserted him towards the end of the season, he was available far more often than many we have just released & always gave it a go.

Top professional who would get a good reception should he ever return.

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LondonBristolian

LondonBristolian

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Best of luck. Crazy to think that he was a back up player for Doncaster the season before he joined us.

But I think Doncaster are a bit worse now. At left back Danny Andrew moved to Fleetwood.

And Reece James was their best player last season at left back but has just joined Blackpool, so it might be Rowe plays left back for them.

Interesting to see what role they want him to play. Might even be back in centre midfield as they're weaker there than when he was previously there.

Funny he's come up today given where his brother is now!

As others have said, good luck to Rowe. Always gave his all, even if the quality wasn't always there. 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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Posted
32 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Best of luck. Crazy to think that he was a back up player for Doncaster the season before he joined us.

But I think Doncaster are a bit worse now. At left back Danny Andrew moved to Fleetwood.

And Reece James was their best player last season at left back but has just joined Blackpool, so it might be Rowe plays left back for them.

Interesting to see what role they want him to play. Might even be back in centre midfield as they're weaker there than when he was previously there.

He’d been injured Jon, had to force his way back in, like you’d expect a good manager to make you do.  Eventually got captaincy back too.  No favours from his former team-mate Grant McCann as Donny challenged for and got to the play-offs.

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TomThumb84

TomThumb84

Posted
Posted

Good luck Tommy and all the best. A solid pro that was probably signed as a utility player and ended up as our first choice left-back/left wing-back due to an inability of our hierarchy to sign natural back-up for Jay Dasilva or keep Dasilva fit. Rarely let us down but it epitomises the failings or our club that he was a regular in our side.

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