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European Super League


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1 minute ago, Loco Rojo said:

100% agree.  Authorities won't back an example of these poster boys of the PL. All that will happen is they'll be offered larger revenue packages to stay.  They'll bend over backwards because they have now teeth.

The PL & other domestic leagues cannot give an inch because in 5 years time, there will be another power grab. 

If anything is done, it has to be contractually agreed that this will be the end of any breakaway chat indefinitely.

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1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

They’ll lose loads of tv money now anyway. I don’t see Sky and BT paying billions for a league with six practice squads in it. The next thing they would be after is no relegation from the Premier League for their practice squads, make no bones about it.

Was just about to reply with this myself. The Premier League will know that as it stands they're the most marketable & profitable league in the world. If this happens they lose their top spot. Either way they lose money. 

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3 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

No it won't happen. Money always talks in the end. Very sad.

Hopefully fans will finally decide enough is enough when players start routinely getting £600,000 a week salaries. It's sick really.

I’m glad you raised that, because you’re right, that’s where all this cash will end up. Those clubs will have a business model that guarantees them those massive levels of income every season, and they’ll all be competing against each other for the very top players. 

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4 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

No it won't happen. Money always talks in the end. Very sad.

Hopefully fans will finally decide enough is enough when players start routinely getting £600,000 a week salaries. It's sick really.

Anybody that tunes into this league isn’t a true football fan in my view. No point spouting all this hot air and then bending over and watching it.

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2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

They’ll lose loads of tv money now anyway. I don’t see Sky and BT paying billions for a league with six practice squads in it. The next thing they would be after is no relegation from the Premier League for their practice squads, make no bones about it.

The dirty dozen are doing this to gain more power in deciding the champions league format.  Ultimately the clubs and UEFA will meet half way somewhere and the can will be kicked down the road for another few years. 

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1 minute ago, italian dave said:

I’m glad you raised that, because you’re right, that’s where all this cash will end up. Those clubs will have a business model that guarantees them those massive levels of income every season, and they’ll all be competing against each other for the very top players. 

Sadly I think you're right

 

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

Anybody that tunes into this league isn’t a true football fan in my view. No point spouting all this hot air and then bending over and watching it.

I agree, but I seem to remember a similar thing happening when the Champions League was introduced. I'm sure there was a lot of opposition to that at first, but of course, football fans being football fans, they soon lapped it up.

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The changes to the champions league where 2 places will now be offered on invitation is a horrible precedent that goes completely against my idea of competition, but it can now be justified through the threat of breakaway by these big clubs. The rest of the champions league is going to be a bloated mess just like has happened to the Euro's and is going to happen to the World Cup. Bottom line is that if you value the integrity of these types of competitions then you are going to be disappointed in the future, these owners want a model more like the NFL and fans from places like the Middle East will be happy with this. Hopefully there will be a line drawn and the English game doesn't follow suit and mess around with the formats of their competitions too. Part of me wants to see them breakaway so they don't get to ruin the rest of the game.

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1 minute ago, Gazred said:

Legal teams are the only winners in this right now. Ka-ching!  I really hope those governing bodies stick to their guns and carry out those threats if they pursue this any further.

Yeah I can see a lot of legal challenges from the PFA too if they threaten to ban players from any competitions like the World Cup. 

I don't care about the champions league and haven't watched it since BT got the rights. It seems it will just be a replacement for that, with more money for the elite clubs. 

Sadly I think it is inevitable that the big boys will eventually do whatever they think brings them most money. Another change accelerated by the pandemic. 

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8 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

No I realise that. But still, it's ridiculous to see Arsenal in an 'elite' European football competition?

But you’re still defining ‘elite’ in the terms you and I understand it: league position, winning cups, winning matches.

’Elite’ in the terms of the owners of these clubs (and much of US sport) means income generating potential, fan base (whether TV or in person), advertising and sponsorship revenue.

In those terms Arsenal are elite. And those are the terms that underpin all this. 

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7 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Sadly I think you're right

 

I agree, but I seem to remember a similar thing happening when the Champions League was introduced. I'm sure there was a lot of opposition to that at first, but of course, football fans being football fans, they soon lapped it up.

I haven’t watched Champions League football for about 3 years now. Couldn’t care less about it. However at least it’s a format where teams in every European League can qualify rather than a repetitive closed shop between 12 teams from 3 countries. Anyone who watches that needs their head examining, is not a true football fan and I would go as far to say is anti-football.

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13 hours ago, Olé said:

Everyone comparing this to American sports - we could actually take one sensible lead from US approach to sports teams.

If these clubs want to move to a new league then I expect the US way would be that these new super league franchises are exactly that, new clubs, existing at the expense of their existing "Premier League" or "Football League" franchises. Those historic "franchises" will cease to exist and so will their history.

Everton or Villa or someone will become the most successful club in English football history and these six clubs will have zero history whatsoever. All for it.

Totally agree one of the reasons they are the big six is they win everything soon forgotten when others start winning things money will also come back as who wants to watch a league of friendlies which in affect it will be 

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2 minutes ago, italian dave said:

But you’re still defining ‘elite’ in the terms you and I understand it: league position, winning cups, winning matches.

’Elite’ in the terms of the owners of these clubs (and much of US sport) means income generating potential, fan base (whether TV or in person), advertising and sponsorship revenue.

In those terms Arsenal are elite. And those are the terms that underpin all this. 

Elite but shit in Arsenal’s case. Not quite elite and pretty average in Tottenham’s case. Take Kane and Son  out of that side and they are as shit as Arsenal.

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20 minutes ago, Loco Rojo said:

100% agree.  Authorities won't make an example of these poster boys of the PL. All that will happen is they'll be offered larger revenue packages to stay.  They'll bend over backwards because they have now teeth.

Im not too sure. I imagine the rest of the premier league clubs will not be happy at the prospect of 6 teams having even more money which they won't be able to get at.

 

I think there is every chance serious sanctions could follow potentially.

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6 minutes ago, italian dave said:

But you’re still defining ‘elite’ in the terms you and I understand it: league position, winning cups, winning matches.

’Elite’ in the terms of the owners of these clubs (and much of US sport) means income generating potential, fan base (whether TV or in person), advertising and sponsorship revenue.

In those terms Arsenal are elite. And those are the terms that underpin all this. 

Yeah I suppose so. Relatively elite anyway - I guess they have to make the numbers up somehow :laugh:

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3 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

One angle I’ve not seen on this to date is work permits.

Post Brexit, players need to get a certain number of points to get a WP. Those points are attained from several places, but generally most are from international games and continental competition.

If the players are banned from their national sides, and the teams withdraw from the designated cup competitions, this could mean that they don’t get permits - hence the clubs don’t get the players?

WPs pretty much guaranteed if you play for a club in the top two tranche league, e.g. the top tier of Italy, Germany, France, Spain, Belgium, Turkey, Holland, etc.  Play below those leagues, e,g France 2nd Tier and you won’t pass.

1 hour ago, mozo said:

The first thing we need to do is recognise that the breakaway clubs have the power whether we like it or not, and that this will have a devastating impact on our traditional competitions.

I think some people are in denial about that.

Getting in a huff isn't going to help. We need to be pragmatic about how to safeguard than domestic game.

FFP is now essentially dead. How do we protect the game from that perspective? How do we manage TV rights? Lots of problems to solve.

....and I still say **** ‘em!

Use the opportunity to improve the product.  Entice the other 14 clubs away from the PL.  Sounds fanciful....but those 14 clubs must be feeling well pissed off.  Power grab from the other side.

The ESL6 can play in their own 6 team PL.....watch the tv money go ⬇️
 

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2 minutes ago, Atticus said:

Im not too sure. I imagine the rest of the premier league clubs will not be happy at the prospect of 6 teams having even more money which they won't be able to get at.

 

I think there is every chance serious sanctions could follow potentially.

Yep, kinda my point in my post above.

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Have to laugh at the primer league, claiming driven by money and greed, will damage football and is a closed shop, - sounds to me exactly what the premier league is, the worst thing that happened to football and why money is no longer fairly distributed to the small clubs and why they are in trouble. Before anyone say yes, but its not a closed shop, with parachute payments they have tried to ensure it is as close as possible to that.

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1 minute ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Have to laugh at the primer league, claiming driven by money and greed, will damage football and is a closed shop, - sounds to me exactly what the premier league is, the worst thing that happened to football and why money is no longer fairly distributed to the small clubs and why they are in trouble. Before anyone say yes, but its not a closed shop, with parachute payments they have tried to ensure it is as close as possible to that.

Agreed, it is hilarious to see the likes of the Premier League trying to take a moral high ground.

The greed was always going to end up causing a situation like this. The PL was the first step in clubs eventually breaking away from all of the traditions of football.

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So having a read/listen around the web this morning, it seems...

Ex players, commentators don't want it.

Fans of the clubs involved don't want it.

Fans of the clubs not involved don't want it.

Then we get this...

Real Madrid president Florentino Perez, the first chairman of the ESL, said the new competition would "help football at every level".

"Football is the only global sport in the world with more than four billion fans and our responsibility as big clubs is to respond to their desires," he added.

Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli said the 12 clubs had "come together at this critical moment, enabling European competition to be transformed, putting the game we love on a sustainable footing for the long-term future".

Manchester United co-chairman Joel Glazer will be a vice-chairman of the Super League.

He said: "By bringing together the world's greatest clubs and players to play each other throughout the season, the Super League will open a new chapter for European football, ensuring world-class competition and facilities, and increased financial support for the wider football pyramid."

 

And on the other side of it, this...

 

Liverpool supporters' group Spirit of Shankly (SOS) said it was "appalled" by the decision of Fenway Sports Group, the club's US-based owner. In a social media post, SOS said: "FSG have ignored fans in their relentless and greedy pursuit of money. Football is ours, not theirs. Our football club is ours not theirs."

Chelsea Supporters' Trust called the move "unforgivable" and said its members and "football supporters across the world have experienced the ultimate betrayal".

The Arsenal Supporters' Trust called the club's agreement to join "the death of Arsenal as a sporting institution", while Manchester City's Official Supporters Club said the move showed "those involved have zero regard for the game's traditions", adding it was "determined to fight against this proposed Super League".

The Manchester United Supporters' Trust had earlier said the proposals were "completely unacceptable" and the ESL "goes against everything football, and Manchester United, should stand for".

Tottenham Hotspur Supporters' Trust said the ESL was a "concept driven by avarice and self-interest at the expense of the intrinsic values of the game we hold so dear".

 

Go on, justify it now you greedy pigs.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Yeah I suppose so. Relatively elite anyway - I guess they have to make the numbers up somehow :laugh:

I’m not defending it, for a moment. Just saying that we have to recognise what is in their mind, and that’s purely about their business investment and their business model.

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10 minutes ago, Atticus said:

Im not too sure. I imagine the rest of the premier league clubs will not be happy at the prospect of 6 teams having even more money which they won't be able to get at.

 

I think there is every chance serious sanctions could follow potentially.

Really good point.  They'll probably up the amount of money the others receive to placate them. This is going to be interesting to see how it plays out.

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3 minutes ago, Gazred said:

So having a read/listen around the web this morning, it seems...

Ex players, commentators don't want it.

Fans of the clubs involved don't want it.

Fans of the clubs not involved don't want it.

Then we get this...

Real Madrid president Florentino Perez, the first chairman of the ESL, said the new competition would "help football at every level".

"Football is the only global sport in the world with more than four billion fans and our responsibility as big clubs is to respond to their desires," he added.

Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli said the 12 clubs had "come together at this critical moment, enabling European competition to be transformed, putting the game we love on a sustainable footing for the long-term future".

Manchester United co-chairman Joel Glazer will be a vice-chairman of the Super League.

He said: "By bringing together the world's greatest clubs and players to play each other throughout the season, the Super League will open a new chapter for European football, ensuring world-class competition and facilities, and increased financial support for the wider football pyramid."

 

And on the other side of it, this...

 

Liverpool supporters' group Spirit of Shankly (SOS) said it was "appalled" by the decision of Fenway Sports Group, the club's US-based owner. In a social media post, SOS said: "FSG have ignored fans in their relentless and greedy pursuit of money. Football is ours, not theirs. Our football club is ours not theirs."

Chelsea Supporters' Trust called the move "unforgivable" and said its members and "football supporters across the world have experienced the ultimate betrayal".

The Arsenal Supporters' Trust called the club's agreement to join "the death of Arsenal as a sporting institution", while Manchester City's Official Supporters Club said the move showed "those involved have zero regard for the game's traditions", adding it was "determined to fight against this proposed Super League".

The Manchester United Supporters' Trust had earlier said the proposals were "completely unacceptable" and the ESL "goes against everything football, and Manchester United, should stand for".

Tottenham Hotspur Supporters' Trust said the ESL was a "concept driven by avarice and self-interest at the expense of the intrinsic values of the game we hold so dear".

 

Go on, justify it now you greedy pigs.

 

 

And yet fans of these clubs will be going to watch their teams play in stadiums as soon as possible. The fans have the power to stop this by not buying shirts, not going to games, not liking and sharing social media posts.  Unfortunately they will not stop those things and not hurt the clubs one bit 

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I've noticed in the replies to tweets from the clubs in question stating their position it's their fans from overseas who like the idea. All of those clubs have many fans from Africa, America, Asia etc who don't necessarily relate to the reasons why us as UK based football fans don't want this to happen.

It's clear that this move is mainly geared towards those supporters. 

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