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European Super League


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1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Point is, Salford are still in the pyramid. They’ve worked they way up. They have to earn the right to play in a higher division. And every team’s success and position in the pyramid is largely dependent on their financial means - where would we be without Lansdown’s investment?

A super league with teams entering without earning it and immune from relegation, is a very different prospect. I don’t see any hypocrisy in Neville’s position.

 

59 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

It’s not really hypocritical as he said he has no problem with money in football but he’s talking about the closed shop and that the wealth is shared amongst those clubs only. If you win the ESL as an invited club you’ll still make far less than clubs who are founder members for just competing in it  

I did say *some* hypocrisy. They may have worked their way up but the owners walked in with millions of pounds and bought the best players they could - Adam Rooney from Aberdeen on £4k a week in the National League! Made it a completely unlevel playing field, and then add the extra TV coverage they got because of who they were owned by. My point is they didn't care about the effect it had on teams around them.

I do agree it's not entirely the same and the ESL has issues on many levels, I just don't like what they did at Salford and it's the same as what many get upset about the likes of Villa doing in the Championship and Man City in the prem - so can't fully back Neville even if what he said is spot on.

 

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7 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

 

Even this is outrageous, to be honest. New spots for 'elite clubs' who fail to qualify? 

Football is killing itself. Do these people not understand the reason football is so popular worldwide is the sheer competitiveness of it? "If we beat you we win, but if you beat us we win anyway" will quickly mean... NOBODY CARES. They're hollowing the game out for short-term reward. 

------

Won't happen, but I genuinely wouldn't mind seeing the six clubs booted out and the Scottish clubs invited to form a new British league from League Two onwards or something. Having Rangers/Celtic compete alongside Everton/West Ham etc. would be interesting to me. The booted out six can apply to rejoin from the National League N/S.

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Hopefully these clubs will **** off and get booted out of english football altogether. They can take their plastic fans with them, get renamed to give them more pizazz like Manchester Red Devil’s and Liverpool Liverbirds, Tottenham Massive Cocks etc.

We can then all laugh at some clubs finishing bottom and being subjected to more of the same the following season. Managers getting sacked every week, fans in the Middle East can adopt them and the plastic supporters can go back to supporting their local clubs.

Football has been a ticking time bomb since the abolition of salary caps and had to be due a reset at some point.

Anyone who thinks a closed shop would be good for the game needs a head wobble.

Football is about players playing with passion and belief, real fans, escapism from life, dreams, giant-killing, falling and rebuilding, magic. Too much money in the game has turned this once beautiful game into a sterile corporate ‘entertainment’ business fuelled by greed and petulance.

Let’s hope it’s the start of the great reset which brings fans and clubs closer together again and provides us with real hopes and dreams. I would love that.

 

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We have been watching fees for mediocre players, and agents, increasing rapidly for years. In manchester, salford fc and fc united of manchester have been set up none of which has affected city or united. 
 

its a sport all about money, and ripping off punters while people get rich. 

In the meantime ive got a life to lead working to pay the bills which is hard enough, i couldnt really give a shit what happens in elite level football, its so far removed from my life that there is no consequence to me. Kick them out of the league, fine, let them do what they want... we all know that as soon as the new league fails they will be welcomed back with open arms and the whole lot will be back to normal.

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1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

It's interesting and ironic that this comes when very few people are travelling abroad. It's all about TV, isn't it.

I presume you are thinking about fans being able to travel to away games in this new super league?

I suspect that fans travelling to games was the very last thing on the minds of club owners ( that’s if it was ever on their minds!) when putting this new league together.

The  only things on their minds were money and control.

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

So there is a £4 billion pot to set this up. 
Where is this cash coming from? Presumably a fair amount from sponsorships/advertisers, but I guess the majority is from TV? Happy to be corrected. 
If so, should fans express their anger at whichever TV company(ies) are funding this?

I assume Sky or BT aren’t involved as it will affect their existing revenue streams? 
 

So who’s funding it? 

JP Morgan investment bank - in the form of significant debt financing, i.e. the £4bn plus interest needs to be repaid once the league is up and running and cash generative.

As someone pointed out in the FT this morning, JP Morgan has no retail banking brand in Europe which makes them ideal as they will be immune from consumer backlash. 

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1 hour ago, nebristolred said:

JP Morgan allegedly - they must be either extremely confident in their ability to get a monster TV deal, or possibly even have one lined up.

JP Morgan won't care - they are just providing debt financing, which the ESL will need to service the interest repayments of or repay. As always the bank is the "house" - it generally doesn't lose. They've probably already re-sold the loan obligation to several other parties, and somewhere along the line, some other parties who think the ESL is going to be a disaster will be able to use JP Morgan or their intermediaries to take out short positions against the debt. Welcome to casino banking.

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5 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

We have been watching fees for mediocre players, and agents, increasing rapidly for years. In manchester, salford fc and fc united of manchester have been set up none of which has affected city or united. 

Salford is not in Manchester & Salford City were formed in 1940! 

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Just now, CyderInACan said:

Salford is not in Manchester & Salford City were formed in 1940! 

As my mate, 'Manchester Mike' would point out to all who called him that with a very Manc accent, 'I'm from Salford, not Manchester!'.

Hence he is now known as 'Greater Manchester Mike' ?

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10 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

Hopefully these clubs will **** off and get booted out of english football altogether. They can take their plastic fans with them, get renamed to give them more pizazz like Manchester Red Devil’s and Liverpool Liverbirds, Tottenham Massive Cocks etc.

We can then all laugh at some clubs finishing bottom and being subjected to more of the same the following season. Managers getting sacked every week, fans in the Middle East can adopt them and the plastic supporters can go back to supporting their local clubs.

Football has been a ticking time bomb since the abolition of salary caps and had to be due a reset at some point.

Anyone who thinks a closed shop would be good for the game needs a head wobble.

Football is about players playing with passion and belief, real fans, escapism from life, dreams, giant-killing, falling and rebuilding, magic. Too much money in the game has turned this once beautiful game into a sterile corporate ‘entertainment’ business fuelled by greed and petulance.

Let’s hope it’s the start of the great reset which brings fans and clubs closer together again and provides us with real hopes and dreams. I would love that.

 

Imagine a world where more people support their local team. We'd surely be one of the biggest beneficiary's of that.

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24 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

Apparently Boris Johnson is attempting to stop the superleague. Not quite sure how, or what powers he will have. 

He's probably getting a bit nervous that the value of the Premier League will be significantly devalued. I saw a stat a few years ago that the Premier League clubs, the league and players paid £3.3bn in tax which can have only increased in recent years. Whilst they will still pay tax, the amount coming into the coffers could decrease a fair bit. 

Additionally, it's an easy points score given the outrage of many fans. As you mention, I'm not really sure what he can do!

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1 hour ago, pillred said:

I'm asking myself what will this mean for the clubs that are left in the premier league obviously there will be 6 vacancies, will they just promote all 6 of the clubs that finish in those positions in the Championship then all the other top sixes? where will it end.....

.... with us missing out - as usual!

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Preston club statement :clap:

We have noted with disappointment the suggestion that a European Super League be formed as a means of concentrating yet more wealth into the hands of the few.

Those English clubs who feel that such an attempt at a wealth power grab, thereby undermining and potentially destroying the English football pyramid, should look themselves in the mirror.

If one takes the status of these so called big six over a longer time frame than just the formation of the Premier League it would take a wise person to guess at who these so called top six are. Over a sustained historic period, the suggestion that these clubs have been at the forefront of domestic trophy winning or domination doesn’t stand the test of scrutiny.

 

Performance on the field of play with promotion and relegation and qualification for European competition based on winning football matches is a fundamental part of European football history.

Having just experienced the devastating financial impact of COVID on football finances, English football urgently needs a fairer distribution of monies throughout the Leagues not a money power grab by the self-appointed few. There is already a huge disparity between the finances available to the top 20 clubs rather the rest of the football pyramid and many are in dire financial straits. This breakaway could destroy nearly 150 years of football history for short term riches for the few.

The underlying principle that these breakaway clubs appear to have completely disregarded is that football is most importantly about its supporters. This European Super League plan has totally ignored their voice which is unacceptable.

We are looking to Government, FIFA, UEFA, The FA, The Premier League and the EFL to ensure that this proposal is stopped in its tracks and the future of the English game as a whole is secured.

Preston North End Football Club

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2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I've noticed in the replies to tweets from the clubs in question stating their position it's their fans from overseas who like the idea. All of those clubs have many fans from Africa, America, Asia etc who don't necessarily relate to the reasons why us as UK based football fans don't want this to happen.

It's clear that this move is mainly geared towards those supporters. 

The club as a "brand"; Man Utd have been pursuing this forever, hence the joke about all their fans being from Surrey. The globalisation is just an extension of that.

The problem with the existing CL and so forth is the access to the rights isn't owned by the clubs, rather UEFA own it. 

Clubs at the top view the CL ss more important than the league, fa cup, etc. Domestic competition is just a way to get to the ultimate objective of CL qualification.

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17 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

Apparently Boris Johnson is attempting to stop the superleague. Not quite sure how, or what powers he will have. 

I think they might look at Employment law as I suggested earlier. If these players are banned from playing International Football he has a "way in" to block work permits for foreign players. It would be great if, for once, everybody including Government sends a strong message to these clubs that "football just isn't about YOU" and if there has to be some serious pain in lower revenues, lower wages for players and whatever else we'll do whatever it takes to get football back to what it should be.......competitive sport not a closed shop for foreign Asset Managers to acquire ever increasing numbers on their Balance Sheets. Whatever you think of Boris Johnson, how hypocritical he is etc. if he can come up with a plan to give these clubs a right good hiding then he's got my full support............Tory, Labour, Monster Raving Loony, couldn't give a crap what party he represents.

I don't give a flying **** about Asian, Russian and American owners and fans.........if you love football that much then sort your own leagues out. I couldn't care less whether you think Arsenal and Tottenham meet some crap definition of "Elite" and therefore "deserve" to be in a closed shop league paying players £0.5m per week and to be honest I'm not bothered about watching the likes of Son and Van Dyke if it means clubs have to shell out £0.5m for their wages each week anyway. Christ I've seen enough ordinary football down the Gate for that to be way behind on my priority list where football is concerned. QC's, like leeches, are no doubt already rubbing their hands with glee at the impending court room drama and they can also do one as far as I'm concerned.

How about taking a once in a lifetime chance to re-build football, the world's most popular game, into some sort of sustainable sport that gives everyone a chance to play their way up the leagues on merit rather than bending over and taking it where the sun don't shine in the name of "pragmatism" and "can't do nothing about it"? Yes, it's a tough gig but less hope somebody has the balls to take it on. Perhaps in the long term we can avoid a situation where a local owner has pumped in £200m to his local club with huge losses to show for it each year, a loss recovery/exit strategy based on building and selling assets, and is still nowhere nearer where he was hoping to be than when he started 20 odd years ago.

For my liking, too many people already, you've only just go to look at some of the replies on this topic, are putting pragmatism over long term principles and future of the game. There seems to be a lack of fight in some but thankfully enough people at the top seem willing to at least give it a go. We can argue all we like how we got to this position and who is at fault (the "Big 6" certainly had a big say in getting us where we are now) but we are where we are on that and it's the "here and now" and the "future" that needs some sort of correction. Change the game for the good FOR GOOD.

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42 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

Their fans don't appear to see an issue. Perhaps that's their way if invited, of leaving the SPL behind.

They aren't anywhere near good enough for the invite (although they may think otherwise). Rochdale & Grimsby will get theirs first

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1 hour ago, Southport Red said:

My guess is, it will be like the Kerry Packer Cricket breakaway ‘Circus’ in the 1970s. It will implode, would then be interesting if the EPL didn’t let the 6 back in. 

Funnily enough, that's what I first thought of.

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25 minutes ago, Olé said:

JP Morgan won't care - they are just providing debt financing, which the ESL will need to service the interest repayments of or repay. As always the bank is the "house" - it generally doesn't lose. They've probably already re-sold the loan obligation to several other parties, and somewhere along the line, some other parties who think the ESL is going to be a disaster will be able to use JP Morgan or their intermediaries to take out short positions against the debt. Welcome to casino banking.

I didn't mean JP Morgan themselves, I meant the clubs must be confident or already have a deal lined up. ?

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1 hour ago, Southport Red said:

My guess is, it will be like the Kerry Packer Cricket breakaway ‘Circus’ in the 1970s. It will implode, would then be interesting if the EPL didn’t let the 6 back in. 

Well look what happened to the ICL that was set up as a rebel league around the time the IPL was started 

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